Non clinical Jobs for MD's?

[Haybrant]

Anyone have a heads up on any good jobs for people with clinical experience looking to get into non-clinical jobs. Im in a specialty field but our ability to move around to desirable location is limited. Also, just looking to get into more exciting things outside clinic. Prefer silicon valley/LA/NYC

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[LookForZebras]

What type of non-clinical job are you interested in? What's your specialty area?

 

[AFamilyDoctor]

What type of non-clinical job are you interested in? What's your specialty area?

I had the same question. I would be interested in consulting or investment banking. I am in family medicine.

 

[LookForZebras]

I had the same question. I would be interested in consulting or investment banking. I am in family medicine.

I can't speak much to investment banking, though I definitely recommend looking into consulting! I considered it heavily as I was finishing up residency. The work you'd do with management consulting firms is really interesting. Very broadly, you're helping large companies primarily in the healthcare and pharma industry solve their problems. I think it's rewarding to be able to use your medical knowledge and background to assist with this, while learning the ins and outs of the business world at the same time.

Also, working with a well-regarding company like McKinsey for a couple of years can really open up a lot of doors for a physician who's interested in a non-clinical leadership position. Working for a management consulting firm is often hard work, though. Long hours, lots of travel, and high expectations. If you don't mind doing that for at least a year, I'd say it's worth it.

I actually just wrote a post this week on the Look for Zebras blog about programs that McKinsey and other consulting companies have for folks to learn what they're all about. Some are geared specifically toward physicians and/or medical students. Some of them automatically offer participants an interview for a full-time job at the end. Check it out here:

Programs in Management Consulting for Physicians | Look for Zebras

 

[Modern MedEd]

There are probably more options than most clinicians realize. Look for Zebras site has a lot of good resources and does a good job showing what is out there. Drop Out Club is basically a job board dedicated to non-clinical jobs and investment banking, consulting, etc seem to come up a lot. Other ideas include working with pharma/medical device/biotech, medical writing, entrepreneurship, medical marketing or sales.

 

[MedicineMan99]

I am a family doctor and I work in utilization management. There are many opportunities in this field.

 

[Successor12]

I am a family doctor and I work in utilization management. There are many opportunities in this field.

You mind sharing more about this? How you got started? Pay? Liability? Leads on how to find jobs?

 

[MedicineMan99]

You mind sharing more about this? How you got started? Pay? Liability? Leads on how to find jobs?

I felt too underappreciated, over-worked, and underpaid in traditional clinical medicine. UM pays at least 50% more than clinical medicine. I work 35 hours a week from home and earn about 75% more than what I made in full time clinical practice. Now I'm finally an entirely happy person. Liability is very small (exponentially smaller than clinical medicine). Yes I'm board certified and I have over 15 state medical licenses. Check out Indeed.com and SEAK for job leads.

 

[dpmgrad]

I had the same question. I would be interested in consulting or investment banking. I am in family medicine.

There are a few Physicians that have entered into investment banking in mainly healthcare sector. Those physicians went back to get their MBA degree. If you are looking to go into investment banking (in general), you will likely need to do a full time MBA program with internship option since you will need to do the internship to be competitive for entry level investment banking positions. If you have worked a few years as a physician (beyond residency) and are interested in getting into investment banking specifically in healthcare sector, you MIGHT be able to get into the healthcare sector investment bank positions with part time MBA or executive MBA programs or potentially MS in Finance program.

In my MBA program, there was recently a presentation / lecture on healthcare sector investment banking. The lecturer was a cardiologist that went back for full time MBA program. He was not happy with the direction of clinical medical practice was headed and decided to make a switch into investment banking/consulting full time. He cautioned that those physicians practicing in certain medical / surgical subspecialties may end up taking a pay cut if they transition from medicine to investment banking or consulting full time. Several of my classmates in my MBA program are in neurosurgery, interventional cardiology, breast surgery, dermatology, and orthopedic surgery. Despite the mild pay cut, the lecturer is much happier with his life away from clinical medicine since he can spend more time with his family, doing things that he enjoyed, and still live comfortably.

 

[awesomesauce17]

I felt too underappreciated, over-worked, and underpaid in traditional clinical medicine. UM pays at least 50% more than clinical medicine. I work 35 hours a week from home and earn about 75% more than what I made in full time clinical practice. Now I'm finally an entirely happy person. Liability is very small (exponentially smaller than clinical medicine). Yes I'm board certified and I have over 15 state medical licenses. Check out Indeed.com and SEAK for job leads.

What is your day to day job like? I am interested to learn more about this field.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

This is a fantastic thread. I have some questions about a career in population health management, if anyone could provide some insight. I'll be referencing LookForZebra's post about jobs in population health.

What do you all think of Mayo's Master's of Advanced Studies in Health Informatics or Mayo's Master's in the Science of Health Care Delivery dual degree programs? Is it worth the extra year of schooling in order to get experience with population health? The idea is that if I don't like clinical medicine, I would like to switch to a population health type career because there are several international healthcare companies in the sector, and I could possibly leverage this skill set to relocate to a different country.

To be more specific, here is the career pathway that I have in mind. I would take the extra year to do the master's program. During residency, fellowship, and attending-hood, I would take on extra clinical informatics/population health type projects as an independent contractor. If I end up hating clinical medicine, I can switch to population health work for international companies like Epic, Cerner, or VitalHealth in Europe. Not only would I have clinical experience, but I would also have valuable knowledge in population health management thanks to the extra year of study.

I've also thought about doing clinical/health informatics fellowships after residency. That's also an option, but I do think there is some value in spending a whole year simply studying health informatics and population health, rather than trying to work it into a fellowship.

Furthermore, I want to do three years worth of fellowships in my field of interest (psychiatry), and adding on a two more years of a clinical informatics fellowship after 4 years of residency and 3 years of psych fellowship...

I'd be almost 40-years old before becoming an attending! And even at that point, I wouldn't be a proven, valuable addition to a population health management team.

I would only be able to say "oh, I did this clinical informatics fellowship", but I wouldn't really have a track record of independent work to show to an employer.

It just seems like it's too long of a time to "wait" for the clinical informatics fellowship. I feel like taking the master's program during medical school will help me figure out now if it is a viable alternative career option for me.

What do you all think? Is my line of thinking feasible, or is there some giant fault in my reasoning?

 

[dpmgrad]

This is a fantastic thread. I have some questions about a career in population health management, if anyone could provide some insight. I'll be referencing LookForZebra's post about jobs in population health.

What do you all think of Mayo's Master's of Advanced Studies in Health Informatics or Mayo's Master's in the Science of Health Care Delivery dual degree programs? Is it worth the extra year of schooling in order to get experience with population health? The idea is that if I don't like clinical medicine, I would like to switch to a population health type career because there are several international healthcare companies in the sector, and I could possibly leverage this skill set to relocate to a different country.

To be more specific, here is the career pathway that I have in mind. I would take the extra year to do the master's program. During residency, fellowship, and attending-hood, I would take on extra clinical informatics/population health type projects as an independent contractor. If I end up hating clinical medicine, I can switch to population health work for international companies like Epic, Cerner, or VitalHealth in Europe. Not only would I have clinical experience, but I would also have valuable knowledge in population health management thanks to the extra year of study.

I've also thought about doing clinical/health informatics fellowships after residency. That's also an option, but I do think there is some value in spending a whole year simply studying health informatics and population health, rather than trying to work it into a fellowship.

Furthermore, I want to do three years worth of fellowships in my field of interest (psychiatry), and adding on a two more years of a clinical informatics fellowship after 4 years of residency and 3 years of psych fellowship...

I'd be almost 40-years old before becoming an attending! And even at that point, I wouldn't be a proven, valuable addition to a population health management team.

I would only be able to say "oh, I did this clinical informatics fellowship", but I wouldn't really have a track record of independent work to show to an employer.

It just seems like it's too long of a time to "wait" for the clinical informatics fellowship. I feel like taking the master's program during medical school will help me figure out now if it is a viable alternative career option for me.

What do you all think? Is my line of thinking feasible, or is there some giant fault in my reasoning?

Have you lookedinto Jefferson's program in MS in Population Health Intelligence program?
It looks like a population health program that adds data analytics in the same degree. The degree is online.

Health Data Science

www.jefferson.edu

They also have the regular MS in Population Health program, which is also online.

Population Health

www.jefferson.edu

 

[LookForZebras]

Have you looking into Jefferson's program in MS in Population Health Intelligence program?

I'm not familiar with this program, but it looks neat upon first glance. When it comes to masters degrees for physicians (MPH, MS, MBA, etc), my general thought is that they are what you make of them. You determine what you get out of them, to a large extent. In addition to the courses, you usually have opportunities to network, get involved in research or other projects, hear lectures from notable people in the field, and join student groups that are active in any number of areas. So, as long as you enter the population health program with interests or goals in mind (rather than just doing it because you're not sure what you want to do), I think it's probably going to be valuable.

I do get the sense that population health is becoming increasingly important to healthcare payors, so I believe we will see an increasing number of opportunities for physicians in population health.

I'd be almost 40-years old before becoming an attending! And even at that point, I wouldn't be a proven, valuable addition to a population health management team.

Don't underestimate the amount of experience you can gain during a training program! A good employer may see the value in your training and hire you despite not having "real" job experience in population health management.

What do you all think? Is my line of thinking feasible, or is there some giant fault in my reasoning?

I don't see a fault... though you know from my blog that I'm keen on population health. I think you've got a very exciting career path ahead of you!

 

[Hamsterlope]

There's an interesting podcast that interviews MDs who pursue interesting nonclinical jobs and how they got them called "The Doctor is Out", might be of interest- The Doctor is Out • A podcast on Anchor

 

[mdartclub]

There's an interesting podcast that interviews MDs who pursue interesting nonclinical jobs and how they got them called "The Doctor is Out", might be of interest- The Doctor is Out • A podcast on Anchor

Thanks for pointing that out...very interesting!