non-doctor husband needing some help

[ConcernedPerson]

I apologize for being lengthy but here is my situation

We got married 2 years ago before my wife started her residency in Texas.

Since I have a good and stable job in California (6 years at the company at the time), I did not move to Texas. My company gives full medical coverage, good sick leave/vacation and is overall a good environment to work. So I was going to be the safe net in case my wife decides to quit residency or some financial burden falls on us. This was important, especially because my wife did not work prior to residency she had zero money. If I was not able to find a job in Texas we would quickly be in financial trouble.

So far this has been going well. We would visit each other every couple months. Now that we got a baby (almost 1 year old) I would visit her for 2 weeks every 3-4 months. The baby is being taken care of by her mother and we are paying her to take care of the baby (we are splitting the cost here). Financially, she barely makes it and goes negative for the month sometimes but I would send her money when she really needs it and I pay for everything when I visit her as financially supporting her is the reason I stayed in California. I am also able to save some money as well.

Currently my wife is on her last year of her residency in Texas. She is now applying for her fellowship program around the area I live. At the beginning of her residency, we made a promise that we would live together for at least a year together in my location even if she did not make it in the program.

Around my area, there are only 2 locations that offer the fellowship program she wants to do and apparently 1 is not hiring new people this year and the other is very high ranked. My worries go away if she can get in the high ranked fellowship but we have been talking about if she doesn’t. She will be living with me for a year as promised but is talking about doing fellowship in other states after that year.

This means me quitting my job and this is where my worry begins.

I am making about 90-100k which is not the so great in my area but since I have been working here for some time so I have some leverage and I can control my working hours. Also, my job is a very niche job and not a lot of position open often and is usually hired project base (6months-1 year contracts). If Im not lucky, I can easily go out of work for 6 months to 1 year after I quit my current job.

I am ok with me quitting / becoming house dad if we were going to be financially stable but average fellowship salary is about 60-70k (for 3 years of fellowship). We would not be able to live comfortably with a child (we want another later) + cat + 2 car debt (we currently lease), so I definitely would have to find a new job. But when we move to the new location, I would have to take care of the baby until we can get the baby into day care since my wife would be doing her fellowship. So I cannot start a job until I find one. Even if I can find a day care quickly, I would still estimate at least 6 months of no salary for me, which probably means dipping into my savings. Once I find a job I expect it to be busy as I am starting a new job and my wife would be doing her fellowship too. There would be no one to take care of the baby when baby gets sick or when the baby cannot go to day care for any other reasons. Also with no relative/friends around us, no one can help us. I don’t even know what to do here.

The thing is if she started working in my area the average salary for her field is about 135k after residency + my 90-100k, we would not have any financial problems and I would be able to take care of the baby when baby gets sick without any issues. We can save money, have another child (another cat even!), and actually go on a good vacation at least once a year.

I really need to discuss with my wife in detail but how important is a fellowship program to a doctor’s carrier? In her field, she told me that it does not greatly increase salary after doing fellowship. I believe she is doing it more for educational/ carrier advancement? purposes, which I was ok with. But now that we have a baby and have the risk of going to financial disaster, I am not sure if I am ok with it. I have saved up money for our family for our future but I would hate to lose my saving for something that may not be worth it

Sorry for the long story and thank you for reading it. I may be overreacting, but it would be great to hear from people with similar experiences.


Thanks!

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[BoardingDoc]

I really need to discuss with my wife in detail but how important is a fellowship program to a doctor’s carrier? In her field, she told me that it does not greatly increase salary after doing fellowship. I believe she is doing it more for educational/ carrier advancement? purposes, which I was ok with. But now that we have a baby and have the risk of going to financial disaster, I am not sure if I am ok with it. I have saved up money for our family for our future but I would hate to lose my saving for something that may not be worth it

What's the fellowship? Some fellowships do not offer a financial advantage, but do fundamentally change the nature of the physician's job, potentially from something they dislike to something they like. E.g. completing a fellowship in endocrinology isn't likely to boost your income, but if that's what you really like, and you don't much care for general internal medicine, it's probably worth it. Can't really comment without more data.

 

[doc05]

Maybe you target cities where you can find a job AND she can do fellowship.

Or maybe she doesn't do fellowship. Its importance varies depending upon specialty... does she even plan on working full time as an attending with a couple of kids?

 

[ConcernedPerson]

What's the fellowship? Some fellowships do not offer a financial advantage, but do fundamentally change the nature of the physician's job, potentially from something they dislike to something they like. E.g. completing a fellowship in endocrinology isn't likely to boost your income, but if that's what you really like, and you don't much care for general internal medicine, it's probably worth it. Can't really comment without more data.

Hi thanks for the comment.
I believe it was Developmental-Behavioral Pediatric

 

[BoardingDoc]

Hi thanks for the comment.
I believe it was Developmental-Behavioral Pediatric

Interesting. You may want to ask in the pediatrics forum (or have this thread moved there) as they would be better able to comment on the pros/cons of this fellowship. It certainly seems like a niche practice which would fundamentally alter they way your wife practices medicine. It also certainly seems like something which is probably only worthwhile if it's what she absolutely wants to do, seeing as it would be another 3 years of training with long hours and crappy salary.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

Maybe you target cities where you can find a job AND she can do fellowship.

Or maybe she doesn't do fellowship. Its importance varies depending upon specialty... does she even plan on working full time as an attending with a couple of kids?

Hi thanks for comment.
Moving to a city where i can find a job would be my minimum requirement for me to move right now.
I would first look at the city to make sure similar jobs are being offered.
In time i should be able to find a job but its how flexible do i have to be at work that worries me.
if I am doing contract jobs i need to have a good reputation from previous employee. I dont think i would get that if i always have to leave every time my child needs me
This is me assuming that fellowship is not so flexible since residency is not.

i am not sure as an attending but she wants to work fulltime.
If she can support our family on her salary alone, i am ok to take care of the kids and not work.

 

[Raryn]

By the by, per MGMA data even child development has a median salary of $176k/year.

 

[mvenus929]

DBP would not significantly change her career compared to gen peds. She can do a lot of behavioral and developmental stuff, and since a lot of people don't like that, she could likely easily create a niche for herself. It would also not be financially worthwhile, as DBP makes less than a general pediatrician (they overall see fewer patients).

Now if she wanted to do Neo... whole other story.

I'm also a bit concerned about the fact that your wife can't support herself in Texas on a resident's salary--residents make a decent income, especially compared to the national mean. If she was living in SF, NYC, etc, it'd be another story, but Texas? You might want to have a solid financial talk with each other.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

DBP would not significantly change her career compared to gen peds. She can do a lot of behavioral and developmental stuff, and since a lot of people don't like that, she could likely easily create a niche for herself. It would also not be financially worthwhile, as DBP makes less than a general pediatrician (they overall see fewer patients).

Now if she wanted to do Neo... whole other story.

I'm also a bit concerned about the fact that your wife can't support herself in Texas on a resident's salary--residents make a decent income, especially compared to the national mean. If she was living in SF, NYC, etc, it'd be another story, but Texas? You might want to have a solid financial talk with each other.

thanks for the comment, this was educational.
As for her supporting her self, she is not a big spender (as she is always working) but food cost for her mother + half of her mother's babysitting salary (which is kind of high) + baby cost is doing some damage. If she was alone, she would be doing alright.

 

[doc05]

Interesting. You may want to ask in the pediatrics forum (or have this thread moved there) as they would be better able to comment on the pros/cons of this fellowship. It certainly seems like a niche practice which would fundamentally alter they way your wife practices medicine. It also certainly seems like something which is probably only worthwhile if it's what she absolutely wants to do, seeing as it would be another 3 years of training with long hours and crappy salary.

Long hours? Doubtful. Probably a 9-5 gig without call.

But definitely a niche field.


To the OP - if she's going to be in a such a niche field, you will likely face a similar problem once she takes an attending job.

 

[physicsnerd42]

DBP is not particularly competitive (nor is it particularly remunerative). It is, however, hugely in demand everywhere and she’ll probably be able to get a job pretty much anywhere with it.

While she’d probably make more as a general pediatrician, she may resent it if she doesn’t get to practice the specialty she loves. I vote that after this year you follow her wherever she goes for fellowship.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[nlax30]

Maybe I’m the only one but i just get an odd vibe when you start mentioning splitting the costs of childcare with her and other expenses. Maybe I’m old fashioned but y’all are married, and have an infant. Y’all are a team.... a family. Each decision needs to be decided on and compromised on as a team/family. When my kids were 1 I certainly wouldn’t be able to deal with seeing them a couple weeks every 3-4 months. I would do everything in my power to be in the same location as her. Unfortunately her location options are likely more limited than yours if she is pursuing a niche specialty.

This is going to be about compromise. I know what’s involved as I had to choose between potentially living away from my family for a year or two and decided i just couldn’t do that and gave up a couple residency/fellowship programs that i was considering at the time.

So maybe it’s time for you to seriously look at other job options (even slightly different career change if for limited time) to be able to work in her city, OR she does some soul searching and realizes that she may not need that extra fellowship.

Granted I don’t understand all the dynamics here and likely there are some cultural differences but to me having a child changes the equation and being apart is very last on the list of acceptable options for me.

 

[Bobblehead]

Hopefully it's just the syntax but you're splitting the baby costs between the two of you and your wife's mother correct? You're not actually expecting your wife to put up 50% of the money and you're putting up 50% of the money? Because if you are, you may be in the wrong forum and should find local family counseling resources instead.

Also if you still consider them "your" savings as opposed to family savings that requires some additional reflection.

Fellowship training may give her leverage in the future with groups that are looking for some type of "edge" in the local market by having someone that's specifically trained in that niche but as others above pointed out, not every fellowship translates into a salary increase. What it may permit is job flexibility because having those credentials may give her additional negotiating power when it comes to work hours, call schedule etc.

I'd explore options with your job for teleworking since you've established some credibility with them. Spend more time with your family that way.

 

[gutonc]

thanks for the comment, this was educational.
As for her supporting her self, she is not a big spender (as she is always working) but food cost for her mother + half of her mother's babysitting salary (which is kind of high) + baby cost is doing some damage. If she was alone, she would be doing alright.

You mostly seem concerned about your financial status. Perhaps now is the time to get out.

 

[AdmiralChz]

thanks for the comment, this was educational.
As for her supporting her self, she is not a big spender (as she is always working) but food cost for her mother + half of her mother's babysitting salary (which is kind of high) + baby cost is doing some damage. If she was alone, she would be doing alright.

Something doesn’t add up here. You need to be honest with yourself about your costs - I have a 7 month old (albeit in fellowship) so I can relate a little bit.

She’s “not a big spender” but where is she staying- expensive housing (doubtful, Texas tends to be MUCH more favorable than NYC/SF/Boston it you never know)?

As far as paying all this to her mother... if you have a year left (assuming a July 2019 finish date), I’d really consider looking into daycares. It’s typically much cheaper (for one kid) than a babysitter/nanny and you won’t have to pay additional costs for her mother’s food (weird, but your original post was a little long and I admit I skimmed it so it could have been addressed). I was wary of daycare but I had such a great experience these past 5 months, and we were able to live more comfortably this year. Her mom would probably have to drive the kid to daycare in the AM, but that’d be a fraction of the cost.

To break it down for you - most daycares for a single child cost less than two weeks of a full time minimum 40 hr/wk babysitter. Really give it a thought.

 

[atomi]

OP, what exactly is your question?
It sounds like your wife is trying to have her cake and eat it too. She left her husband well outside of driving distance, started a family with you (assuming this was a deliberate choice -- one that doesn't really make sense to me if so), and now wants to do a fellowship that will not increase her earning potential and likely limit work options due to subspecialization. I am struggling to understand what she wants in life from the information you have presented. Does she want to be a doctor? Is she only ok subspecializing? Does she want to raise a family alone? With her husband? Does she just want to go to work and focus on her career while her parents raise her child and you send her money to keep the lights on? It sounds like she has no idea what she wants, has no idea how money/business/personal finances works, and this whole thing just sounds like a mess, and maybe that's why I don't even know what the heck your question is.

Edit: Is this some sort of arranged marriage or something? None of this makes any sense, but this would explain some of it. Do you love this person?

 

[captaincrunch]

This sounds like a pretty rough situation. Not sure if you work in tech in live in the Bay Area, but if so the region is very saturated with doctors and highly subspecialized doctors can find it hard to get a good job. It can very taxing on a family and marriage to live like this for an extended periods of time. I have known families that have lived separately for a few months to a year for various reasons (for example one person may take a job in a different city with the expectation that their partner will relocate when they can get a job), but there is a price to pay. When you say things have been "going well" I assume you mean the mechanics of this deal are working out rather than that everyone is happy.

I agree with other posters; the exact question isn't clear. If you're happy doing this, you don't need our permission. But I don't think living like this is healthy for your family and marriage. You'll miss major milestones, you're kid won't relate to you very well, day-to-day decisions won't be made with your wife and you'll have virtually no physical relationship with your spouse.

If you want this to work, something has to give. Either you find a job in Texas or she agrees to do general pediatrics and live with you when training is over. Possible compromise is that she applies to the fellowships in your region and agrees to forgo fellowship if she doesn't get into one of the two programs in your area.

Another approach is to go your separate ways. Continue to visit your kid as able and to send money, but this allows you both to find partners that can actually have a life together.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

Maybe I’m the only one but i just get an odd vibe when you start mentioning splitting the costs of childcare with her and other expenses. Maybe I’m old fashioned but y’all are married, and have an infant. Y’all are a team.... a family. Each decision needs to be decided on and compromised on as a team/family. When my kids were 1 I certainly wouldn’t be able to deal with seeing them a couple weeks every 3-4 months. I would do everything in my power to be in the same location as her. Unfortunately her location options are likely more limited than yours if she is pursuing a niche specialty.

This is going to be about compromise. I know what’s involved as I had to choose between potentially living away from my family for a year or two and decided i just couldn’t do that and gave up a couple residency/fellowship programs that i was considering at the time.

So maybe it’s time for you to seriously look at other job options (even slightly different career change if for limited time) to be able to work in her city, OR she does some soul searching and realizes that she may not need that extra fellowship.

Granted I don’t understand all the dynamics here and likely there are some cultural differences but to me having a child changes the equation and being apart is very last on the list of acceptable options for me.

Hi thanks for your time to write this.
My apologies for confusing statement about splitting the cost. We split the cost for her mother having to take care for the child. Since this is a fixed cost we just decided to pay a fixed amount. I pay a little more since i make a little more and we just agreed that was the way to go and we dont really have a problem with that. For rest of the cost we dont really have a strict split, we just take care of it as needed.

Yes, i understand. I am willing to compromise my job and willing to move if it is worth in at the end. But its always hard to figure the end outcome. There are a lots of unknowns and I am just worried so was looking to see if some people had similar experiences.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

Hopefully it's just the syntax but you're splitting the baby costs between the two of you and your wife's mother correct? You're not actually expecting your wife to put up 50% of the money and you're putting up 50% of the money? Because if you are, you may be in the wrong forum and should find local family counseling resources instead.

Also if you still consider them "your" savings as opposed to family savings that requires some additional reflection.

Fellowship training may give her leverage in the future with groups that are looking for some type of "edge" in the local market by having someone that's specifically trained in that niche but as others above pointed out, not every fellowship translates into a salary increase. What it may permit is job flexibility because having those credentials may give her additional negotiating power when it comes to work hours, call schedule etc.

I'd explore options with your job for teleworking since you've established some credibility with them. Spend more time with your family that way.

Hi thanks for your reply.
We are just splitting the cost of her mother baby sitting our child. Since this is a fixed cost we just decided we each pay a fixed amount. This is not 50-50 but we have didnt have an argument in deciding this one.

Yes, saving is something that i have a hard time getting over as well.
I am OK with using the money for our family. If we were using for buying a house together and using for our child's education i have no argument there. These are also emergency funds that I would like to have in case we get in trouble.
Its the fact that i have to quit my job and also have dip into saving to pursue her career is what i have hard time getting over for now. I always thought i would be moving up in my career and increasing savings for the baby and families' future, but right now it may go the other way. This was very recent news so it hasn't sank down yet... My feeling is all over the place right now, but wanted to see if someone had similar experiences that i can learn from.

Asking to work from home would be something i could ask from my current job. Thanks for that idea. I would definitely ask my boss when the time comes

 

[ConcernedPerson]

You mostly seem concerned about your financial status. Perhaps now is the time to get out.

Of course I am concerned about "our" financial status. We have a baby to raise

 

[ConcernedPerson]

Something doesn’t add up here. You need to be honest with yourself about your costs - I have a 7 month old (albeit in fellowship) so I can relate a little bit.

She’s “not a big spender” but where is she staying- expensive housing (doubtful, Texas tends to be MUCH more favorable than NYC/SF/Boston it you never know)?

As far as paying all this to her mother... if you have a year left (assuming a July 2019 finish date), I’d really consider looking into daycares. It’s typically much cheaper (for one kid) than a babysitter/nanny and you won’t have to pay additional costs for her mother’s food (weird, but your original post was a little long and I admit I skimmed it so it could have been addressed). I was wary of daycare but I had such a great experience these past 5 months, and we were able to live more comfortably this year. Her mom would probably have to drive the kid to daycare in the AM, but that’d be a fraction of the cost.

To break it down for you - most daycares for a single child cost less than two weeks of a full time minimum 40 hr/wk babysitter. Really give it a thought.

Hi
The cost for paying her mother is high because she moved to my wife's location and she quit her job in doing so. We decided it would be fair for her to get same cost as her old job. We asked her mother to come instead of babysitter/nanny as my wife would not be on fixed schedule with residency (Im sure you guys know the crazy work hours than i do) and i am living in California.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

OP, what exactly is your question?
It sounds like your wife is trying to have her cake and eat it too. She left her husband well outside of driving distance, started a family with you (assuming this was a deliberate choice -- one that doesn't really make sense to me if so), and now wants to do a fellowship that will not increase her earning potential and likely limit work options due to subspecialization. I am struggling to understand what she wants in life from the information you have presented. Does she want to be a doctor? Is she only ok subspecializing? Does she want to raise a family alone? With her husband? Does she just want to go to work and focus on her career while her parents raise her child and you send her money to keep the lights on? It sounds like she has no idea what she wants, has no idea how money/business/personal finances works, and this whole thing just sounds like a mess, and maybe that's why I don't even know what the heck your question is.

Edit: Is this some sort of arranged marriage or something? None of this makes any sense, but this would explain some of it. Do you love this person?

I am looking for someone that has had a similar experiences. Story from people who either moved with their wife/husband or stayed back.
We just recently discussed about this and I am just trying to learn how other people dealt with it and what choices they had to make or what they had to give up.
Yes i realize it is a mess with a lot of questions, i am trying to figure out the options myself.

haha as crazy as it sounds right now, no its not an arranged marriage. Its a wife dedicated to do this Developmental-Behavioral Pediatric fellowship so she can do this as her carrier. She wants me to follow her to fellowship. I am just trying to figure out how we can make it all work so we can make a good living for us.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

This sounds like a pretty rough situation. Not sure if you work in tech in live in the Bay Area, but if so the region is very saturated with doctors and highly subspecialized doctors can find it hard to get a good job. It can very taxing on a family and marriage to live like this for an extended periods of time. I have known families that have lived separately for a few months to a year for various reasons (for example one person may take a job in a different city with the expectation that their partner will relocate when they can get a job), but there is a price to pay. When you say things have been "going well" I assume you mean the mechanics of this deal are working out rather than that everyone is happy.

I agree with other posters; the exact question isn't clear. If you're happy doing this, you don't need our permission. But I don't think living like this is healthy for your family and marriage. You'll miss major milestones, you're kid won't relate to you very well, day-to-day decisions won't be made with your wife and you'll have virtually no physical relationship with your spouse.

If you want this to work, something has to give. Either you find a job in Texas or she agrees to do general pediatrics and live with you when training is over. Possible compromise is that she applies to the fellowships in your region and agrees to forgo fellowship if she doesn't get into one of the two programs in your area.

Another approach is to go your separate ways. Continue to visit your kid as able and to send money, but this allows you both to find partners that can actually have a life together.

Yes going well meaning mechanics. It would of course be best to live with my wife and baby.
I have agreed to do it for 3 years since it seemed whats best for the family at the time. Now that we have a baby, it would especially be emotionally be hard for me if i had to do it for another 3 years without the baby and wife.

I apologize for the unclear question. I just want to hear from people that had similar experiences.Story from people who either moved with their wife/husband or stayed back. We just recently discussed about this and I am just trying to learn how other people dealt with it and what choices they had to make or what they had to give up. I would just hate to realize after i make a decision.

 

[atomi]

I am sorry, but if you’re looking for stories of similar experiences, I don’t think your going to find any here. You all are both apparently splitting costs to PAY your mother in law to raise the child you all chose to bring into this world. I have never heard of such a thing. You have a very unique family dynamic and unusual attitudes regarding money and parenting,

 

[rokshana]

I am sorry, but if you’re looking for stories of similar experiences, I don’t think your going to find any here. You all are both apparently splitting costs to PAY your mother in law to raise the child you all chose to bring into this world. I have never heard of such a thing. You have a very unique family dynamic and unusual attitudes regarding money and parenting,

then you don't know a lot of people or been out of residency/fellowship for a while.

to the OP
the weird thing to me is that you are paying your MIL a salary to take care of her grandchild...maybe, as someone mentioned, its time to look at daycare...while not cheap, probably cheaper than paying you MIL it sit at home and take care of her grandchild.

you need to discuss with your wife about how important being a specialist is to her in regards to her career...subspecialization isn't always about making more money. Job satisfaction is important, but needs to be weigh against family needs as well. Has she though about working as a generalist for a few years while your children are young and once they are off to school, then go back to fellowship? One of my co fellows did that...worked 10 years as PCP then went back to fellowship..if its not a competitive fellowship to get, this could be a possibility.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

I am sorry, but if you’re looking for stories of similar experiences, I don’t think your going to find any here. You all are both apparently splitting costs to PAY your mother in law to raise the child you all chose to bring into this world. I have never heard of such a thing. You have a very unique family dynamic and unusual attitudes regarding money and parenting,

Her mother in law quite her job and moved to help out with our child.
Why wouldn't we pay her?
If her mother was mega rich, maybe i would consider not paying her but we all have expenses.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

then you don't know a lot of people or been out of residency/fellowship for a while.

to the OP
the weird thing to me is that you are paying your MIL a salary to take care of her grandchild...maybe, as someone mentioned, its time to look at daycare...while not cheap, probably cheaper than paying you MIL it sit at home and take care of her grandchild.

you need to discuss with your wife about how important being a specialist is to her in regards to her career...subspecialization isn't always about making more money. Job satisfaction is important, but needs to be weigh against family needs as well. Has she though about working as a generalist for a few years while your children are young and once they are off to school, then go back to fellowship? One of my co fellows did that...worked 10 years as PCP then went back to fellowship..if its not a competitive fellowship to get, this could be a possibility.

Hi
As for the daycare, my wife is doing crazy shifts at times with schedules always changing. This is why we thought this would be the best way to go. And we have about a year left so we probably will just keep it this way. I think it helps her mentally that mom is their to physically support her as well. Since i cannot be there all the time, i am actually grateful that she is there as well.

thanks for the input on working for generalist for a while. This may be a good so we can find a balance in our life first then proceed to her career advancement.

 

[Stagg737]

Financially, she barely makes it and goes negative for the month sometimes but I would send her money when she really needs it and I pay for everything when I visit her as financially supporting her is the reason I stayed in California.

As others have pointed out, it's somewhat concerning that she is not able to live within a resident's budget in Texas. If she's making resident salary, the only way she should be struggling is if she's paying her mom 20k/yr to take care of the kid, which would be nuts considering you said you're paying more than her. I get why you'd think 50k/yr isn't a lot in Cali, but in Texas that amount should go much, much farther. I agree with the person that said you two need to have some financial discussions, possibly with a good financial advisor because from what you've said it sound sounds like you two aren't managing money very well.

Yes, i understand. I am willing to compromise my job and willing to move if it is worth in at the end. But its always hard to figure the end outcome. There are a lots of unknowns and I am just worried so was looking to see if some people had similar experiences.

Yes, saving is something that i have a hard time getting over as well.
I am OK with using the money for our family. If we were using for buying a house together and using for our child's education i have no argument there. These are also emergency funds that I would like to have in case we get in trouble.
Its the fact that i have to quit my job and also have dip into saving to pursue her career is what i have hard time getting over for now. I always thought i would be moving up in my career and increasing savings for the baby and families' future, but right now it may go the other way. This was very recent news so it hasn't sank down yet... My feeling is all over the place right now, but wanted to see if someone had similar experiences that i can learn from.

This is the typical experience of families going through the medical training process. Spouses have to make significant sacrifices and kids often have to become a secondary responsibility at times to the med student/resident. Unknowns are the norm and being in a crappy place financially for the duration of training is also normal and typically worth it, as the pay as an attending usually makes up for it very well. Spouses of med students often have to sacrifice their own careers and future certainties to make the relationship work to the point that it's really not fair for them. I wish more spouses/SO's of med students understood this at the start of the process, but unfortunately most don't which is why so many relationships fail throughout this process.

The cost for paying her mother is high because she moved to my wife's location and she quit her job in doing so. We decided it would be fair for her to get same cost as her old job. We asked her mother to come instead of babysitter/nanny as my wife would not be on fixed schedule with residency (Im sure you guys know the crazy work hours than i do) and i am living in California.

I get where you're coming from, but depending on how much you're paying her this could be absolutely ridiculous. Also, her sacrificing her job and moving to do this for you is a huge sacrifice on her part and could lead to feelings of you and your wife "owing her". It kind of sounds like that may be the case given that she quit her job and moved to do this and you're paying her what her previous salary was. It sounds like you're kind of trapped in this obligation to keep her as a nanny, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Smurfette]

To be fair, the likelihood of going back after practicing for a while is low. Most people aren't willing to take a pay cut and give up a full practice to suddenly being a fellow who has no control over their schedule or to make independent decisions. Especially if by then they have more kids and a spouse who works, as going back would almost certainly require a move as well. And then another move after fellowship again, and starting a new practice in the new subspecialty. It's more difficult to go back the longer you are out.

 

[NITRAS]

@ConcernedPerson

This is weird.

If you want my advise, combine your households. Combine your money, combine your goals.

Things are booming in Texas. You should be able to get a job ( probably with more earning power). Seriously, I’d would make plans to move in with your wife and child within 6 weeks. And I’d advise marriage counseling.

 

[Stagg737]

Since @ConcernedPerson has asked for perspectives from spouses that have done this, I'll try and give some answers because my wife was in a somewhat similar situation. Warning, long post ahead.

I got accepted and attended med school about 600 miles from where we both grew up. We had been together a little under a year when I got accepted and ended up getting engaged the summer before med school. Her career dream was to stay in the city near where we grew up and pursue a specific career that requires being in/near a major metro area. In spite of that, she came with me knowing she had no job lined up (was able to do some freelancing for her previous company which paid terribly), no car, and she only knew 2 people in the city we were moving to and was only close-ish to one of them. Things were incredibly tough for her at first and she was really depressed for the first couple months I was in school (because she didn't even really have me as support). Luckily, she found a job in her field within a couple months, but it paid pretty terribly and we lived on a very tight budget for quite a while. We had minimal savings (small emergency fund, less than $3k), had poor income (less than $30k), and a fair amount of debt (she had around $20k from UG, I had none but racked up a hefty debt throughout med school). We got married around Christmas of my M2 year and after that we've pretty much coasted and just been getting by without being able to really put much away for retirement or savings other than the basic 401k match and maintaining our emergency fund. So while friends back home were building their careers, making money, and being able to feel like real adults, we were just trying to get by.

The other major thing she sacrificed was kids. She's desperately wanted to be a mom since we got engaged, but it just wasn't realistic, so we put that off for around 4 years until we knew we'd be in a better financial situation (ie me starting residency). It was really hard for her seeing her friends and co-workers her age and younger buying houses, starting families, and just generally improving their status in life while she felt stagnant. Med students understand that there is very significantly delayed gratification in this process which we can deal with because we're surrounded by people in the same situation. I think it's harder for spouses because they're surrounded by people who are "growing up" while they often are trying to maintain what they have. So my wife did make some pretty major sacrifices and delay a lot of her dreams so I could pursue mine.

At the same time I made a lot of compromises to help her out. There were times (mostly early on) when I knew I needed to be studying that I didn't because I knew she needed the emotional support. That definitely affected my grades and I actually ended up ruling out some fields to pursue simply because the lifestyle would have been too much pressure for both of us. There were irl things like one of the places we lived and what we could afford for entertainment that I honestly hated, but I had to do it for her sanity and just for us to get by in general. However, the biggest potential sacrifice was my rank list for residency. Because of my wife's career goals and the support system she developed in our current city, my rank list looked significantly different than what I would have made if I were being completely selfish. I had 4 programs that were really miles ahead of everywhere else I interviewed. Of those 4, only 2 made it into my top 5 because my wife would not have been able to work in her field and would have been completely miserable at the other 2. At the same time, the program I would have likely ranked second to last and which I really believed would have been a terrible place for me to end up at became my third rank due to location. It really sucked knowing that I could end up somewhere I really didn't want to be to help my wife but she had made plenty of sacrifices for me so this was a major one I was potentially making for her. Fortunately, I matched at my top program which we both loved so everything worked out, but things could have been really bad. While things are looking great right now, I also know there will be other sacrifices in the future as well. I'd like to potentially do a fellowship after residency, but due to financial and geographic reasons this is almost unfeasible for us. So I will likely just go straight into practice after residency. It sucks because I'd like to be able to really be a master in a certain area, but the sacrifices needed to accomplish that may not be worth it.

One thing I will add is that we also have very separate finances for practical reasons. We still have separate bank accounts, pay utilities separately (she pays some, I pay others), pay for our own cars, etc. We're not completely separate financially as we're on the same car insurance and health insurance plans, but it's just been easier to manage things knowing what we're each responsible for, especially given we have very different debts and kind of a messy repayment situation. So while others may be baffled by why you two are still financially separate in a lot of ways, I get why some people may choose to do that especially when there are very different aspects to each person's budget. The only critique I have of your situation is that you two must be on the same page financially and in terms of long-term plans/goals and it sounds like there's still a lot of gray areas in your situation (fellowship, financial planning, living situation, childcare, etc). Imo, if a stranger asks what your plans are you and your SO should instantly give the same answers on everything major. If you're not, then there needs to be a serious conversation to get everyone on the same page, otherwise you're asking for disaster.

So overall, it's been a hard road for both myself (now resident) and my wife. We've both had to make significant sacrifices to make our relationship work and there will be plenty more sacrifices in the future. Ultimately, it's a team effort that requires a lot of compromise and communication to make it work even in the most ideal situations. My wife and I have had to have some serious conversations several times along the way and we haven't always agreed on everything at first. However, we've always managed to figure things out and get to a place where we can both at least be satisfied or be willing to deal with it for the length of time we agreed on. If you've got more specific questions I'm happy to try and answer them, but I think the best thing you can do at this point is plan to have a serious conversation next time you visit and hammer out what the plans are with her so all these questions aren't up in the air. Lay out what each of your expectations are, what compromises you're willing to make, and what you NEED in order to be happy/make the relationship work. I think doing that will help you out far more than any random advice you'll get here or anywhere else, as the best people to figure out any relationship situation are the people who are in that relationship.


Edit: I'd also add that my spouse and I had been friends for years before we started dating, so we were pretty positive the relationship was going to work out when we decided to move together. Just to clarify the move wasn't as spontaneous as it may sound.

 

[atomi]

So while others may be baffled by why you two are still financially separate in a lot of ways

I see nothing wrong with separate finances in a marriage. The baffling thing to me is the both of them paying not only expenses, but an actual salary to her mother for raising the child and defending it because she apparently needs an income. That is bonkers. Maybe a cultural difference, but one I've never heard of.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

As others have pointed out, it's somewhat concerning that she is not able to live within a resident's budget in Texas. If she's making resident salary, the only way she should be struggling is if she's paying her mom 20k/yr to take care of the kid, which would be nuts considering you said you're paying more than her. I get why you'd think 50k/yr isn't a lot in Cali, but in Texas that amount should go much, much farther. I agree with the person that said you two need to have some financial discussions, possibly with a good financial advisor because from what you've said it sound sounds like you two aren't managing money very well.




This is the typical experience of families going through the medical training process. Spouses have to make significant sacrifices and kids often have to become a secondary responsibility at times to the med student/resident. Unknowns are the norm and being in a crappy place financially for the duration of training is also normal and typically worth it, as the pay as an attending usually makes up for it very well. Spouses of med students often have to sacrifice their own careers and future certainties to make the relationship work to the point that it's really not fair for them. I wish more spouses/SO's of med students understood this at the start of the process, but unfortunately most don't which is why so many relationships fail throughout this process.



I get where you're coming from, but depending on how much you're paying her this could be absolutely ridiculous. Also, her sacrificing her job and moving to do this for you is a huge sacrifice on her part and could lead to feelings of you and your wife "owing her". It kind of sounds like that may be the case given that she quit her job and moved to do this and you're paying her what her previous salary was. It sounds like you're kind of trapped in this obligation to keep her as a nanny, but maybe I'm wrong.

Hi
for her financials this is her first time working and if it was getting worse i would be worried but she is getting better so i dont mind. Also, i am currently saving as much as i can.

Paying her mother was an agreement that my wife and i made. Taking care of a child is full time work and so we figured the least thing we could do is pay her as a thank you. The cost is slightly higher than a normal daycare in Texas (probably normal in califronia) but its not ridiculously high. Even with paying her my wife is able to get by and i am able to save and invest. If my wife was tight for the month for any reason, i am able to transfer funds. Financial wise we are pretty ok right now.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

Since @ConcernedPerson has asked for perspectives from spouses that have done this, I'll try and give some answers because my wife was in a somewhat similar situation. Warning, long post ahead.

I got accepted and attended med school about 600 miles from where we both grew up. We had been together a little under a year when I got accepted and ended up getting engaged the summer before med school. Her career dream was to stay in the city near where we grew up and pursue a specific career that requires being in/near a major metro area. In spite of that, she came with me knowing she had no job lined up (was able to do some freelancing for her previous company which paid terribly), no car, and she only knew 2 people in the city we were moving to and was only close-ish to one of them. Things were incredibly tough for her at first and she was really depressed for the first couple months I was in school (because she didn't even really have me as support). Luckily, she found a job in her field within a couple months, but it paid pretty terribly and we lived on a very tight budget for quite a while. We had minimal savings (small emergency fund, less than $3k), had poor income (less than $30k), and a fair amount of debt (she had around $20k from UG, I had none but racked up a hefty debt throughout med school). We got married around Christmas of my M2 year and after that we've pretty much coasted and just been getting by without being able to really put much away for retirement or savings other than the basic 401k match and maintaining our emergency fund. So while friends back home were building their careers, making money, and being able to feel like real adults, we were just trying to get by.

The other major thing she sacrificed was kids. She's desperately wanted to be a mom since we got engaged, but it just wasn't realistic, so we put that off for around 4 years until we knew we'd be in a better financial situation (ie me starting residency). It was really hard for her seeing her friends and co-workers her age and younger buying houses, starting families, and just generally improving their status in life while she felt stagnant. Med students understand that there is very significantly delayed gratification in this process which we can deal with because we're surrounded by people in the same situation. I think it's harder for spouses because they're surrounded by people who are "growing up" while they often are trying to maintain what they have. So my wife did make some pretty major sacrifices and delay a lot of her dreams so I could pursue mine.

At the same time I made a lot of compromises to help her out. There were times (mostly early on) when I knew I needed to be studying that I didn't because I knew she needed the emotional support. That definitely affected my grades and I actually ended up ruling out some fields to pursue simply because the lifestyle would have been too much pressure for both of us. There were irl things like one of the places we lived and what we could afford for entertainment that I honestly hated, but I had to do it for her sanity and just for us to get by in general. However, the biggest potential sacrifice was my rank list for residency. Because of my wife's career goals and the support system she developed in our current city, my rank list looked significantly different than what I would have made if I were being completely selfish. I had 4 programs that were really miles ahead of everywhere else I interviewed. Of those 4, only 2 made it into my top 5 because my wife would not have been able to work in her field and would have been completely miserable at the other 2. At the same time, the program I would have likely ranked second to last and which I really believed would have been a terrible place for me to end up at became my third rank due to location. It really sucked knowing that I could end up somewhere I really didn't want to be to help my wife. Fortunately, I matched at my top program which we both loved so everything worked out, but things could have been really bad. While things are looking great right now, I also know there will be other sacrifices in the future as well. I'd like to potentially do a fellowship after residency, but due to financial and geographic reasons this is almost unfeasible for us. So I will likely just go straight into practice after residency. It sucks because I'd like to be able to really be a master in a certain area, but the sacrifices needed to accomplish that may not be worth it.

One thing I will add is that we also have very separate finances for practical reasons. We still have separate bank accounts, pay utilities separately (she pays some, I pay others), pay for our own cars, etc. We're not completely separate financially as we're on the same car insurance and health insurance plans, but it's just been easier to manage things knowing what we're each responsible for, especially given we have very different debts and kind of a messy repayment situation. So while others may be baffled by why you two are still financially separate in a lot of ways, I get why some people may choose to do that especially when there are very different aspects to each person's budget. The only critique I have of your situation is that you two must be on the same page financially and in terms of long-term plans/goals and it sounds like there's still a lot of gray areas in your situation (fellowship, financial planning, living situation, childcare, etc). Imo, if a stranger asks what your plans are you and your SO should instantly give the same answers on everything major. If you're not, then there needs to be a serious conversation to get everyone on the same page, otherwise you're asking for disaster.

So overall, it's been a hard road for both myself (now resident) and my wife. We've both had to make significant sacrifices to make our relationship work and there will be plenty more sacrifices in the future. Ultimately, it's a team effort that requires a lot of compromise and communication to make it work even in the most ideal situations. My wife and I have had to have some serious conversations several times along the way and we haven't always agreed on everything at first. However, we've always managed to figure things out and get to a place where we can both at least be satisfied or be willing to deal with it for the length of time we agreed on. If you've got more specific questions I'm happy to try and answer them, but I think the best thing you can do at this point is plan to have a serious conversation next time you visit and hammer out what the plans are with her so all these questions aren't up in the air. Lay out what each of your expectations are, what compromises you're willing to make, and what you NEED in order to be happy/make the relationship work. I think doing that will help you out far more than any random advice you'll get here or anywhere else, as the best people to figure out any relationship situation are the people who are in that relationship.

Hi thanks for the other comment and this as well.
This was something that i was looking for. I wish i could give you more likes!
Since i dont have any friends that are doctor or spouses of doctor so i really wanted to hear from someone who experienced this kind of hardship.
This is very detailed and i really appreciate your time in writing this.
I am glad you and your wife is doing well after your hard road. and i hope you continue to do well.
I will definelty talk to my wife to make sure we are on the same page.
Again thank you.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

I see nothing wrong with separate finances in a marriage. The baffling thing to me is the both of them paying not only expenses, but an actual salary to her mother for raising the child and defending it because she apparently needs an income. That is bonkers. Maybe a cultural difference, but one I've never heard of.

Around where I live in CA, a lot of people do this and it not so uncommon.
But this is nothing to argue over, we just see different perspectives. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[PTPoeny]

You are mostly going to get perspectives from residents on this site and not spouses based on the nature of this site. Similar to what others have posted above my husband has made significant career sacrifices with my training. We moved to my medical school after being together about a year and we were halfway across the country from his family and all our mutual friends and a long drive from my family. It was very rough on him at first as I was coming into medical school with all the organized social events to allow us to get to know each other and there is nothing like that for people coming into normal jobs. He did find a series of jobs that he liked and it went well after the first six months or so. For residency I was considering two specialties and ended up picking one based on training/family time- I knew I would love both so it wasn't a big sacrifice. The residency match list was something we discussed for a long time and made together and unfortunately between when we made the list and actually moved the job that he thought would be great at our second choice spot fell apart. We ended up living three hours apart for intern year and honestly it was great. He was able to room with a friend so we weren't paying for two households and he was able to work longer hours to work four days a week. I studied like crazy Sunday evening through Wednesday evening so I could spend more time with him when he got home on Thursday evening and through the weekend. He got to hang out with our friends from where we used to live several days a week while slowly building a new social circle on the weekends in our new town. Second year we started trying for a family and his old work situation changed so he moved to be with me full time and worked a job he hated for two years while I finished residency. Because of that, job options for him became the driving factor for my fellowship rank list and we are both happy where we are now but it was definitely a compromise list. My husband was happy to make these sacrifices (not in the moments of hating his job, but in the big picture) knowing that ending up in a fulfilling career that will support our family will allow him to go back to school to pursue a career that he is passionate about but will take time to see any financial benefit to our family.

 

[trophyhusband]

Ok, so based on my username you can probably tell I'm a spouse of a physician (the handle is mostly aspirational).

First I'm not entirely sure I understand the timing in your original post as you said you got married 2 years ago before your wife started residency and later you say she's in her last year of residency (which you later told us is peds). Since peds is a 3 year residency does that mean you got married right before she moved? So you already knew where she matched and everything before you got married? Maybe that's not what you meant but if it is this story is even more strange to me now.

Anyway, we had a similar situation-ish but we went a completely different direction. We got married her first year of med school so we were married for longer than you two apparently were at the time. I was working my way up the corporate ladder when we started discussing what field she was going into and at that time I made the move to go into a consulting role so I could eventually work remotely and travel. I worked for that CPA/Consulting firm for a year and by that time my wife had settled on a field and was ready to interview/match.

We selected one program as her #1 which was a place we both interested in living and then #2 was in Texas because her family had moved there a few years before (completely different city and 3 hrs away). She eventually matched to the Texas program and I had to look for a new job because even though I enjoyed what I was going consulting wise we couldn't stand all of the travel and being apart from each other. I was eventually able to find a telecommuting job that I took with me to Texas. That job lasted all of 6 months because I couldn't stand the owner so I then had to look for a job in the middle of nowhere Texas in the middle of the 2010 recession. But I got lucky and the hospital system she worked for was looking for someone who had my experience and I was able to catch on there for the same salary ($85k).

Three years later or so we moved again for her fellowship and my job let me take my work with me and telecommute 100% of the time. I stayed on with them until the end of her fellowship. After that we moved 2 more times in 3 years as my wife looks for the right job for her.

We weren't able to have children during her residency or fellowship even though we tried but I can't even imagine living away from my wife and child for over a year. I know people do it especially in the military but that's not usually a truly voluntary choice (outside of whether they decide to join the military).

My wife looked into peds as a specialty and also into Developmental/Behavioral and what we found was that it seems like its mostly limited to working for Children's Hospitals as that specialty needs longer appointments but doesn't bill any different codes than general peds (though they may bill some higher level of care codes). This was almost a decade ago that we research it so things might have change some but the salary you quoted for your area of California doesn't really surprise me.

Now on to the hard part. I'm not really sure what to tell you. It seems like quite a bit of this is your own doing. I really don't understand your statement that you said in California in case she quit her residency... that almost never happens so why would you even have that thought? Also, I have a hard time seeing how maintaining two households while paying your MIL what sounds like essentially a nanny salary and paying California state income taxes is more financially sound than just having moved to Texas and found some $50k a year job. You'd probably have been able to find something for more than $50k because Texas has been booming for longer than your wife has been in residency and all of the spouses that I met had good jobs if they wanted them (again this was in the middle of the recession in the middle of nowhere). Add on top of that the fact that you're leasing 2 cars which I just can't even... the wife and I drove old cars that were already paid off all throughout her medical school, residency, and even a couple of years after.

Again, I have no idea what to tell you. I sacrificed quite a bit so my wife could go to med school, go to residency, and do the fellowship she wanted and in the end it turned out just fine because I was able to eventually find a job that I liked and is quite flexible. I guess here's something I can advise. It might not get much better once she's done. My wife still has to work late some nights because there are high acuity patients on the unit or one of the other docs is on vacation. So I need to pick up our toddler from daycare and put her to bed before mom even comes home. You've got to make sacrifices at the alter of medicine constantly so you better get used to it.

 

[Stagg737]

Hi
for her financials this is her first time working and if it was getting worse i would be worried but she is getting better so i dont mind. Also, i am currently saving as much as i can.

Paying her mother was an agreement that my wife and i made. Taking care of a child is full time work and so we figured the least thing we could do is pay her as a thank you. The cost is slightly higher than a normal daycare in Texas (probably normal in califronia) but its not ridiculously high. Even with paying her my wife is able to get by and i am able to save and invest. If my wife was tight for the month for any reason, i am able to transfer funds. Financial wise we are pretty ok right now.

So this may be tmi, but how much are you two paying the MIL to take care of your kid? You said before that you're paying her the same as what she was making at her job which sounds like a lot.

I understand feeling the need to pay her, especially if she gave up her job and moved to help you two out. However, I think amount would clarify things for a lot of people here. Is it $20k/yr or less? If so, that's a little high (daycare in my very affordable city is between $10k-15k/yr) but I don't think that's totally unreasonable given she's got the kid at odd hours or overnight at times. In contrast if you're paying $30k+ for her to watch your kids, then I really start questioning that decision. Even with her odd hours, you'd have been better off moving with her for residency and helping out yourself than paying mom. Exact numbers aren't needed, but general price range would help clarify your thought process a bit.

 

[AdmiralChz]

So this may be tmi, but how much are you two paying the MIL to take care of your kid? You said before that you're paying her the same as what she was making at her job which sounds like a lot.

I understand feeling the need to pay her, especially if she gave up her job and moved to help you two out. However, I think amount would clarify things for a lot of people here. Is it $20k/yr or less? If so, that's a little high (daycare in my very affordable city is between $10k-15k/yr) but I don't think that's totally unreasonable given she's got the kid at odd hours or overnight at times. In contrast if you're paying $30k+ for her to watch your kids, then I really start questioning that decision. Even with her odd hours, you'd have been better off moving with her for residency and helping out yourself than paying mom. Exact numbers aren't needed, but general price range would help clarify your thought process a bit.

This times a million. You are doing yourself no favors my paying your MIL’s previous salary. I know it’s “nice” but you don’t have enough disposable income to do so.

 

[RangerBob]

I agree something sounds off here. If I were in your shoes I'd move to TX and be a stay-at-home dad and support my wife/child rather than than pay taxes in CA, paying MIL a salary, and be absent from my child's life. I grew up in CA (and just moved back), as did my wife, and have never heard of the arrangement you have--it is not something that is common out here. It is common in many immigrant households to have a grandparent living in the home and helping out (and you helping take care of them), but putting them in charge of raising children and living elsewhere isn't something any of my South/East Asian friends' families did.

It's also odd that you have to give your wife money when she doesn't have enough for the month (and odd she doesn't have enough), yet you're also putting money away into investments, etc. I agree it's fine to have separate accounts when married if that's what you want (though once a kid comes into the picture I think those accounts really should be merged), but it's odd that one spouse has to ask the other for support.

You and your wife must just have a different arrangement than most. That's ok if that's what you two want. But with a child in the picture I think the two of you need to have a long talk about what is important to you as a family. In my mind, nothing is more important than family. When it comes to needs, you just need enough to support your family. Your or your wife's job alone should be enough (especially once she's a practicing pediatrician) unless you live very extravagantly. You do not both need a job. Your child however, needs you both in their life.

Think about what is best for your child- you're missing out on some of the best and most important (developmentally-speaking) moments of your child's life. Remember, kids really don't know/care if you support them financially--they care if you show up. If you want my advice, quit your job and move to be with your family. If your job and salary is that high/important, then perhaps your wife should not pursue a fellowship at all, and she can move back to CA with you. Right now it sounds like you both have goals to help yourselves as individuals and further your , but you two should make decisions together that help the family unit as a whole.

Family really does come first. You don't get this time back. If you continue to live in CA and your wife pursues a fellowship elsewhere, that's 5 years you two are living apart. Do you and your wife really feel that would be ok?

 

[ConcernedPerson]

You are mostly going to get perspectives from residents on this site and not spouses based on the nature of this site. Similar to what others have posted above my husband has made significant career sacrifices with my training. We moved to my medical school after being together about a year and we were halfway across the country from his family and all our mutual friends and a long drive from my family. It was very rough on him at first as I was coming into medical school with all the organized social events to allow us to get to know each other and there is nothing like that for people coming into normal jobs. He did find a series of jobs that he liked and it went well after the first six months or so. For residency I was considering two specialties and ended up picking one based on training/family time- I knew I would love both so it wasn't a big sacrifice. The residency match list was something we discussed for a long time and made together and unfortunately between when we made the list and actually moved the job that he thought would be great at our second choice spot fell apart. We ended up living three hours apart for intern year and honestly it was great. He was able to room with a friend so we weren't paying for two households and he was able to work longer hours to work four days a week. I studied like crazy Sunday evening through Wednesday evening so I could spend more time with him when he got home on Thursday evening and through the weekend. He got to hang out with our friends from where we used to live several days a week while slowly building a new social circle on the weekends in our new town. Second year we started trying for a family and his old work situation changed so he moved to be with me full time and worked a job he hated for two years while I finished residency. Because of that, job options for him became the driving factor for my fellowship rank list and we are both happy where we are now but it was definitely a compromise list. My husband was happy to make these sacrifices (not in the moments of hating his job, but in the big picture) knowing that ending up in a fulfilling career that will support our family will allow him to go back to school to pursue a career that he is passionate about but will take time to see any financial benefit to our family.

Hi, thanks for your response.
Yes, its what i figured, but i am getting a lot of information from your experiences, even they are not directly from spouses of doctors. It really is going to help when i talk to my wife and decide what we are going to do.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

Ok, so based on my username you can probably tell I'm a spouse of a physician (the handle is mostly aspirational).

First I'm not entirely sure I understand the timing in your original post as you said you got married 2 years ago before your wife started residency and later you say she's in her last year of residency (which you later told us is peds). Since peds is a 3 year residency does that mean you got married right before she moved? So you already knew where she matched and everything before you got married? Maybe that's not what you meant but if it is this story is even more strange to me now.

Anyway, we had a similar situation-ish but we went a completely different direction. We got married her first year of med school so we were married for longer than you two apparently were at the time. I was working my way up the corporate ladder when we started discussing what field she was going into and at that time I made the move to go into a consulting role so I could eventually work remotely and travel. I worked for that CPA/Consulting firm for a year and by that time my wife had settled on a field and was ready to interview/match.

We selected one program as her #1 which was a place we both interested in living and then #2 was in Texas because her family had moved there a few years before (completely different city and 3 hrs away). She eventually matched to the Texas program and I had to look for a new job because even though I enjoyed what I was going consulting wise we couldn't stand all of the travel and being apart from each other. I was eventually able to find a telecommuting job that I took with me to Texas. That job lasted all of 6 months because I couldn't stand the owner so I then had to look for a job in the middle of nowhere Texas in the middle of the 2010 recession. But I got lucky and the hospital system she worked for was looking for someone who had my experience and I was able to catch on there for the same salary ($85k).

Three years later or so we moved again for her fellowship and my job let me take my work with me and telecommute 100% of the time. I stayed on with them until the end of her fellowship. After that we moved 2 more times in 3 years as my wife looks for the right job for her.

We weren't able to have children during her residency or fellowship even though we tried but I can't even imagine living away from my wife and child for over a year. I know people do it especially in the military but that's not usually a truly voluntary choice (outside of whether they decide to join the military).

My wife looked into peds as a specialty and also into Developmental/Behavioral and what we found was that it seems like its mostly limited to working for Children's Hospitals as that specialty needs longer appointments but doesn't bill any different codes than general peds (though they may bill some higher level of care codes). This was almost a decade ago that we research it so things might have change some but the salary you quoted for your area of California doesn't really surprise me.

Now on to the hard part. I'm not really sure what to tell you. It seems like quite a bit of this is your own doing. I really don't understand your statement that you said in California in case she quit her residency... that almost never happens so why would you even have that thought? Also, I have a hard time seeing how maintaining two households while paying your MIL what sounds like essentially a nanny salary and paying California state income taxes is more financially sound than just having moved to Texas and found some $50k a year job. You'd probably have been able to find something for more than $50k because Texas has been booming for longer than your wife has been in residency and all of the spouses that I met had good jobs if they wanted them (again this was in the middle of the recession in the middle of nowhere). Add on top of that the fact that you're leasing 2 cars which I just can't even... the wife and I drove old cars that were already paid off all throughout her medical school, residency, and even a couple of years after.

Again, I have no idea what to tell you. I sacrificed quite a bit so my wife could go to med school, go to residency, and do the fellowship she wanted and in the end it turned out just fine because I was able to eventually find a job that I liked and is quite flexible. I guess here's something I can advise. It might not get much better once she's done. My wife still has to work late some nights because there are high acuity patients on the unit or one of the other docs is on vacation. So I need to pick up our toddler from daycare and put her to bed before mom even comes home. You've got to make sacrifices at the alter of medicine constantly so you better get used to it.

Hi thanks for your response.
Great to hear experiences from a husband of a doctor.
My wife and i married before her residency, but we have been dating for 5-6 before that and we have known each other most of our lives. The timing of the marriage may have been at an awkward point if you just take that portion, but the discussion of marriage has been talked from way before.

I really thank you for your experience. Really helps me to see whats ahead and whats coming.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

So this may be tmi, but how much are you two paying the MIL to take care of your kid? You said before that you're paying her the same as what she was making at her job which sounds like a lot.

I understand feeling the need to pay her, especially if she gave up her job and moved to help you two out. However, I think amount would clarify things for a lot of people here. Is it $20k/yr or less? If so, that's a little high (daycare in my very affordable city is between $10k-15k/yr) but I don't think that's totally unreasonable given she's got the kid at odd hours or overnight at times. In contrast if you're paying $30k+ for her to watch your kids, then I really start questioning that decision. Even with her odd hours, you'd have been better off moving with her for residency and helping out yourself than paying mom. Exact numbers aren't needed, but general price range would help clarify your thought process a bit.

I dont really want to give exact numbers but its less than $20k/yr slightly higher than the range you have given.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

I agree something sounds off here. If I were in your shoes I'd move to TX and be a stay-at-home dad and support my wife/child rather than than pay taxes in CA, paying MIL a salary, and be absent from my child's life. I grew up in CA (and just moved back), as did my wife, and have never heard of the arrangement you have--it is not something that is common out here. It is common in many immigrant households to have a grandparent living in the home and helping out (and you helping take care of them), but putting them in charge of raising children and living elsewhere isn't something any of my South/East Asian friends' families did.

It's also odd that you have to give your wife money when she doesn't have enough for the month (and odd she doesn't have enough), yet you're also putting money away into investments, etc. I agree it's fine to have separate accounts when married if that's what you want (though once a kid comes into the picture I think those accounts really should be merged), but it's odd that one spouse has to ask the other for support.

You and your wife must just have a different arrangement than most. That's ok if that's what you two want. But with a child in the picture I think the two of you need to have a long talk about what is important to you as a family. In my mind, nothing is more important than family. When it comes to needs, you just need enough to support your family. Your or your wife's job alone should be enough (especially once she's a practicing pediatrician) unless you live very extravagantly. You do not both need a job. Your child however, needs you both in their life.

Think about what is best for your child- you're missing out on some of the best and most important (developmentally-speaking) moments of your child's life. Remember, kids really don't know/care if you support them financially--they care if you show up. If you want my advice, quit your job and move to be with your family. If your job and salary is that high/important, then perhaps your wife should not pursue a fellowship at all, and she can move back to CA with you. Right now it sounds like you both have goals to help yourselves as individuals and further your , but you two should make decisions together that help the family unit as a whole.

Family really does come first. You don't get this time back. If you continue to live in CA and your wife pursues a fellowship elsewhere, that's 5 years you two are living apart. Do you and your wife really feel that would be ok?

Hi thanks for you response.
Just to clarify, yes i understand having MIL actually moving to help out is somewhat uncommon (which is why i am more grateful for her help) but people were saying paying MIL was uncommon which i don't think it is.

I definitely want to be with my wife and child. That is why i made this topic to know how others are doing it and to understand what they went through. From what i learned from you guys, i am leaning towards quitting my job and following her if she is not able to get a fellowship in CA.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

You have made one uneconomic decision after another. Clinging to California, training as a fellow in a field that doesn't increase salary, maintaining multiple households, paying your mother in law (shriek) etc. etc, etc. This whole state of affairs reads like a parody of the economically incompetent.

You and your wife could use a class in personal financial planning. Sit down with your wife over a spreadsheet and tally up your short term and long term revenues and expenses. Run the numbers. Try not to be emotional. If your job only pays $90K in California and is extremely limited, maybe you are the one who needs additional training and not her. Good luck.

Hi thanks for you response.
Just to clarify, yes i understand having MIL actually moving to help out is somewhat uncommon (which is why i am more grateful for her help) but people were saying paying MIL was uncommon which i don't think it is.

I definitely want to be with my wife and child. That is why i made this topic to know how others are doing it and to understand what they went through. From what i learned from you guys, i am leaning towards quitting my job and following her if she is not able to get a fellowship in CA.

 

[AdmiralChz]

people were saying paying MIL was uncommon which i don't think it is.

Paying her more than $15K/yr is.

 

[captaincrunch]

Paying her more than $15K/yr is.

Meh, I have known of people doing this. The salary to MIL isn't what bothers me about the situation. I think that in the short-term, families can potentially live apart to further careers/set up jobs, but this is usually on the scale of a few months. Living separately for 3 to 6 years will be very difficult.

 

[LucidSplash]

For all the people saying paying the MIL is crazy, would you feel the same way if “full-time nanny” was substituted for “MIL.” Because that’s what she is. And I know plenty of dual-workforce couples, especially in medicine, who have a full-time nanny or an aupair. Of all the things in this situation that seems a little off, this isn’t one of them to me.

 

[hallowmann]

Paying her more than $15K/yr is.

For all the people saying paying the MIL is crazy, would you feel the same way if “full-time nanny” was substituted for “MIL.” Because that’s what she is. And I know plenty of dual-workforce couples, especially in medicine, who have a full-time nanny or an aupair. Of all the things in this situation that seems a little off, this isn’t one of them to me.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. Something like $17k/yr is not actually as much as I was expecting. We're paying a nanny close to that just to cover for my wife when she has to work 3-4 times/wk. I'd gladly pay my mom or MIL that amount.

OP, honestly, it sounds to me like you are getting a little ahead of yourself. After your wife finishes residency, you will be in better financial shape than you are now. Even with the estimate, which sounds low to me, of $135k/yr and you making nothing, you'll be saving $17k/yr and you'll be taking care of one home, which will probably mean a slightly better financial state than you're in now. Plus, without a job weighing you down, you could potentially move somewhere where she'll be making $175k/yr.

Now as far as the fellowship thing goes, sure you don't know if that competitive fellowship will take her, but at the earliest, she won't start somewhere new for 2 yrs. In all honesty, who knows what her and your goals will be at that point. I think you guys just need to talk more and evaluate your individuals goals.

You said that you had no problem with the idea of quitting your job, going with your wife, and becoming a stay-at-home dad. If that really is true, depending on where you have to go to get that fellowship, its actually pretty reasonable for a household of 3+a cat to live on a $60-$70k/yr salary. You won't be living in luxury, but you also won't be paying $17k/yr for childcare. Personally, I think you are getting worried about a very specific potential scenario (having to dip into savings) that is something relatively in your control. You can choose within reason what kind of areas she applies to for fellowship, and a focus on low cost of living areas should really solve that issue. She could also potentially moonlight while in fellowship, something that may be helpful, especially if you end up not getting a job.

I also agree with other posters that I don't think you guys should be leasing cars unless you have a personal business to write it off with, and even then, I don't know that its financially the best idea. I do wonder if some of your collective problems would be at very least improved with better budgeting.

 

[ConcernedPerson]

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. Something like $17k/yr is not actually as much as I was expecting. We're paying a nanny close to that just to cover for my wife when she has to work 3-4 times/wk. I'd gladly pay my mom or MIL that amount.

OP, honestly, it sounds to me like you are getting a little ahead of yourself. After your wife finishes residency, you will be in better financial shape than you are now. Even with the estimate, which sounds low to me, of $135k/yr and you making nothing, you'll be saving $17k/yr and you'll be taking care of one home, which will probably mean a slightly better financial state than you're in now. Plus, without a job weighing you down, you could potentially move somewhere where she'll be making $175k/yr.

Now as far as the fellowship thing goes, sure you don't know if that competitive fellowship will take her, but at the earliest, she won't start somewhere new for 2 yrs. In all honesty, who knows what her and your goals will be at that point. I think you guys just need to talk more and evaluate your individuals goals.

You said that you had no problem with the idea of quitting your job, going with your wife, and becoming a stay-at-home dad. If that really is true, depending on where you have to go to get that fellowship, its actually pretty reasonable for a household of 3+a cat to live on a $60-$70k/yr salary. You won't be living in luxury, but you also won't be paying $17k/yr for childcare. Personally, I think you are getting worried about a very specific potential scenario (having to dip into savings) that is something relatively in your control. You can choose within reason what kind of areas she applies to for fellowship, and a focus on low cost of living areas should really solve that issue. She could also potentially moonlight while in fellowship, something that may be helpful, especially if you end up not getting a job.

I also agree with other posters that I don't think you guys should be leasing cars unless you have a personal business to write it off with, and even then, I don't know that its financially the best idea. I do wonder if some of your collective problems would be at very least improved with better budgeting.

Hi thanks for your thoughtful response.

I understand i am getting ahead of myself, i just wanted to see how other people are doing in similar situations before have a good discussion with my wife. I did get a lot of insights and i do feel better about just being a home-dad/moving if that happens.

I apologize to everyone for the points that seem off or strange. I understand some of this is strange situation and some is due to my lack of explanation.

I will definitely discuss with my wife on the location of her fellowship so i would have the option to work. If it was a major city, i would be able to find at least something (even if its contract). When she got matched for residency, i looked for a job to where she got matched, but i surprising did not find anything. So at that time i didnt like it but i decided to stay in CA instead of moving.

Many people seem to think i am making bad financial decision one after the other by staying, but the reason why i stayed was because it was going to be financially be better and we were going to have enough savings to potentially buy a house. As i said before, I dont make so much, but my expenses are not high. For the time my wife has been in residency, so far, i have been able to save 15-20k/year after all expenses. That may not be much to some people here but is going to help us in these couple years if we do struggle.

As for the car lease, you guys are right that it is not the most economical way to go. I did think about getting a used car, but I got a lease for my wife because i did not want her to deal with any car issues while in residency because she was going to deal with crazy hours. May be a low risk, but i just wanted to take it out of the equation. Also, the residency was 3 years and the lease was 3 years so we decided this was way to go. For my car lease, my ~16 year old car was just about dying on me a year ago (came to the point where maintenance was greater than car value) so i just sold it and found a really good deal on a car lease. And its not a luxury car (cheapest model, good gas mileage) either so the lease cost is not so bad. If i was financially struggling right now, i would of went with the cheaper option than the easier option, but this was something i decided that we can afford right now (I also was not considering to quite my job at the time). But that is right now, if the income drops (living on single fellowship income) I definitely will go with the economical option than the easier option.