non-published oral presentation

[treonaut]

I recently submitted a oral presentation to the AOA for presentation at their conference this fall. Where do I put this in my ERAS file so program directors will know that I have attempted some research experience?

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[NotAProgDirector]

If it hasn't been accpeted for presentation, you do not list it (in general).

 

[delta1410]

aProgDirector, I have a follow up question. If a poster presentation has been accepted for presentation at a date later in the year, is it ok to go ahead and list this under publications, obviously with a date that is in the future?

Thanks for all of your help.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

aProgDirector, I have a follow up question. If a poster presentation has been accepted for presentation at a date later in the year, is it ok to go ahead and list this under publications, obviously with a date that is in the future?

Thanks for all of your help.

Absolutely. If ERAS allows, I would write "will present [date]".

Same for printed journal articles that have been accepted -- you can list them as "in press".

What you shouldn't do is list something that has been submitted but not accepted. If it gets rejected, you can't take it off your application.

 

[ginger60]

aProgDirector--I've got a question kind of related to this thread.

I have two case reports that are pretty much guaranteed to be published but I haven't submitted yet due to problems obtaining pictures. Once I submit these I know I can list them as a "submitted peer-reviewed journal article publication", but where can I list them if they aren't submitted by the time I submit ERAS? Is there anyway I could list them under publications as "manuscript in preparation/revision" with the journal I'm planning on submitting it to, or should I put these case reports under the research experience section?

 

[Law2Doc]

aProgDirector--I've got a question kind of related to this thread.

I have two case reports that are pretty much guaranteed to be published but I haven't submitted yet due to problems obtaining pictures. Once I submit these I know I can list them as a "submitted peer-reviewed journal article publication", but where can I list them if they aren't submitted by the time I submit ERAS? Is there anyway I could list them under publications as "manuscript in preparation/revision" with the journal I'm planning on submitting it to, or should I put these case reports under the research experience section?

I would guess you could put them under the description section for whatever research experience they are related to. But they aren't going to belong under the publications heading until submitted and accepted.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I would guess you could put them under the description section for whatever research experience they are related to. But they aren't going to belong under the publications heading until submitted and accepted.

Agreed. Better to not list them at all, than list them and have them get rejected, or never get around to finishing them.

 

[5150]

So just for clarification... if we have submitted an abstract to a meeting, but there is no word yet on whether it is accepted, we shoudl list it under experiences but not publications? Lets say you have 3 abstracts you've submitted to a meeting, and all 3 get rejected. If you list all 3 under reserach experiences, but not publications, wouldnt you still run into the same problem of having to explain how all 3 got rejected?

 

[Winged Scapula]

So just for clarification... if we have submitted an abstract to a meeting, but there is no word yet on whether it is accepted, we shoudl list it under experiences but not publications? Lets say you have 3 abstracts you've submitted to a meeting, and all 3 get rejected. If you list all 3 under reserach experiences, but not publications, wouldnt you still run into the same problem of having to explain how all 3 got rejected?

No, if you have submitted something that has not yet been accepted, you don't list it.

IMHO, research experience is for formal rotations, work experience or other positions. If your research experience consists of a chart review or something less formal, it doesn't get listed. If you have a significant contribution (which you should have if you have submitted something for publication or presentation), then list it.

 

[5150]

No, if you have submitted something that has not yet been accepted, you don't list it.

IMHO, research experience is for formal rotations, work experience or other positions. If your research experience consists of a chart review or something less formal, it doesn't get listed. If you have a significant contribution (which you should have if you have submitted something for publication or presentation), then list it.

Ok... I guess this seems a bit odd to me. I officially had a 4 week rotation in which I was doing research, but in truth, I had been working on several projects for months before and after that 4 week block, 3 of which have been submitted for a meeting but word is not yet back in whether they have been accepted. I'm just wondering how to even convey that I have some research experience on my CV if I don't list officially list it under experiences.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Ok... I guess this seems a bit odd to me. I officially had a 4 week rotation in which I was doing research, but in truth, I had been working on several projects for months before and after that 4 week block, 3 of which have been submitted for a meeting but word is not yet back in whether they have been accepted. I'm just wondering how to even convey that I have some research experience on my CV if I don't list officially list it under experiences.

I'm not sure what is odd about it.

It sounds as if you have a significant enough research experience to list it under experience.

You cannot list publications/posters submitted which have not been accepted.

My point was that you should not list minor research experiences which did not result in publication/presentation or were not formal research positions. Students will often try to list a 4 week project in which they read some papers or did some chart reviews but never wrote anything, published or presented anything as research. I suppose technically it is, but its pretty weak and doesn't belong on a CV. Since you worked on yours for several months and are presenting it, I don't think your experience is the same as that.

 

[5150]

Sorry if I'm sounding extremely thick-skulled, I guess I was just unclear as to what exactly counts as research experience. I guess my story is that I had been working on a few studies which were more or less unrelated to each other (different subspecialties within the same general field of medicine), but I basically completed or nearly completed all of these in my spare time during 3rd year (with an additional 4 week block of time which I devoted to nothing but finishing these projects).

I just wasn't sure whether or not I should list the three submissions as 3 different experiences, whether I should just list one research experience (specifically the 4 week block of devoted time) and then talk about all 3 projects, or if I should just not list it AT ALL under experiences since none of have been accepted yet.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Sorry if I'm sounding extremely thick-skulled, I guess I was just unclear as to what exactly counts as research experience.

Its ok...it IS confusing when its not a paid position or extended period of time.

I guess my story is that I had been working on a few studies which were more or less unrelated to each other (different subspecialties within the same general field of medicine), but I basically completed or nearly completed all of these in my spare time during 3rd year (with an additional 4 week block of time which I devoted to nothing but finishing these projects).

I just wasn't sure whether or not I should list the three submissions as 3 different experiences, whether I should just list one research experience (specifically the 4 week block of devoted time) and then talk about all 3 projects, or if I should just not list it AT ALL under experiences since none of have been accepted yet.

You have EXPERIENCE, you just don't have a publication or presentation.

I would list all 3 experiences. I'm not sure if ERAS allows you to describe the experience, but you can put in a couple of lines about it, ending with "submitted for publication/presentation to X" and note the dates as extending throughout the 3rd year (ie, August 1, 2007 - June 30, 2008).

There are no hard and fast rules. If you feel that including this is important to your application then go ahead and include it. You will not be sanctioned for doing so when it hasn't resulted in a publication. I don't get a sense, at least frm what you have told us, that you are trying to pad your application (as many students try and do when they realize that this section is blank).

 

[jouneih]

Sorry if these are dumb, but just to make sure.... some other questions regarding what is okay to list under "oral presentation"...

-Does a thesis research oral defense count?

-Does a presentation to other medical students and some faculty at the end of a summer research fellowship count, even if everyone in the fellowship did one?

thanks for everyone's advice and help!!!!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Neither. They were both required of your training, neither was "invited" nor truly peer-reviewed.

 

[Stillwater45]

RE: Abstracts/Presentations that are currently submitted... From what I understand there is a new category entitled : "Peer Review Journal Articles and Abstracts Other Than Published" which gives you the option to choose "submitted".

I have 4 abstracts that I currently have submitted to various Meetings, could I list them here? Also I hope to find out any day if they are accepted. Can I update my ERAS if they become accepted/rejected?

Thanks

 

[5150]

Still water I'm a similar situation. It seems like a lot of people on this message board having been saying NOT to include submitted abstracts in your publications list (if they have not yet been accepted) despite the fact that a category exists for this group. Common opinion seems to be that it's better to not list them than list all of them and have to explain later if they are rejected.

Just out of curiosity, if you do plan on listing those projects in the "submitted" but not accepted category, are you also going to include write about those same 4 projects in the Experiences section, just so you can write a brief description?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

RE: Abstracts/Presentations that are currently submitted... From what I understand there is a new category entitled : "Peer Review Journal Articles and Abstracts Other Than Published" which gives you the option to choose "submitted".

I have 4 abstracts that I currently have submitted to various Meetings, could I list them here? Also I hope to find out any day if they are accepted. Can I update my ERAS if they become accepted/rejected?

Thanks

I wasn't aware that there was a choice of "submitted". That's interesting, since theoretically you could submit anything. I could submit this post for publication in the NEJM, for example. Chances are, it would be rejected. Should I list that as "submitted" on my CV?

If you list something as submitted, you are certain to be asked about it at your interview. Only you can weigh whether it's better to list something as submitted in the hopes that it buys you an interview, against the possibility of explaining your submission's rejection at an interview you might have gotten anyway.

You can't change your research publication status, because it's part of your CAF (not the your profile). Here's what you can update after submission:

First, Middle, and Last Name
�� Previous Last Name
�� Preferred Name
�� Suffix
�� Contact E-mail
�� Present Mailing Address
�� Preferred Phone Number
�� Alternate Phone Number
�� Fax/Page/Mobile Number
�� SSN (this is not a required field)
�� Citizenship
�� Current Visa Status/Expected Visa Type
�� USMLE ID
�� NBOME ID
�� Match information including: AOA Member number/AOA Match number (for osteopathic applicants); AUA Number for Urology Programs
�� NRMP Match Participation Information
�� Advanced Cardiac Life Support Certification
�� Pediatric Advanced Life Support Certification
�� Sigma Sigma Phi Status
�� Alpha Omega Alpha Status
�� ECFMG Certification Status (for IMG’s only)

 

[ginger60]

I wasn't aware that there was a choice of "submitted". That's interesting, since theoretically you could submit anything. I could submit this post for publication in the NEJM, for example. Chances are, it would be rejected. Should I list that as "submitted" on my CV?

If you list something as submitted, you are certain to be asked about it at your interview. Only you can weigh whether it's better to list something as submitted in the hopes that it buys you an interview, against the possibility of explaining your submission's rejection at an interview you might have gotten anyway.

You can't change your research publication status, because it's part of your CAF (not the your profile). Here's what you can update after submission:

First, Middle, and Last Name
�� Previous Last Name
�� Preferred Name
�� Suffix
�� Contact E-mail
�� Present Mailing Address
�� Preferred Phone Number
�� Alternate Phone Number
�� Fax/Page/Mobile Number
�� SSN (this is not a required field)
�� Citizenship
�� Current Visa Status/Expected Visa Type
�� USMLE ID
�� NBOME ID
�� Match information including: AOA Member number/AOA Match number (for osteopathic applicants); AUA Number for Urology Programs
�� NRMP Match Participation Information
�� Advanced Cardiac Life Support Certification
�� Pediatric Advanced Life Support Certification
�� Sigma Sigma Phi Status
�� Alpha Omega Alpha Status
�� ECFMG Certification Status (for IMG’s only)

So, what is the best way to let programs know about an article you listed as submitted being published, or a research project you listed as generating an article submission? I'm asking because I have a bit of a dilemma--I will be submitting a case report in a month or two, before residency programs will look at my application (when the MSPE comes out) but after when I should submit applications for prelims. So, I have 2 choices--apply to programs now with the case report listed as an experience and attempt to contact programs later to let them know when it was submitted, or wait a few weeks until I submit it and list it as a submitted article and apply then. The residency I'm applying to really values research and publications, which is why I was leaning towards the second option although it will hurt my chances at prelim/transitional applications. However, if there is a good enough way to let programs know I've submitted the article before they offer interview invitations, I'd much rather apply earlier.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

So, what is the best way to let programs know about an article you listed as submitted being published, or a research project you listed as generating an article submission? I'm asking because I have a bit of a dilemma--I will be submitting a case report in a month or two, before residency programs will look at my application (when the MSPE comes out) but after when I should submit applications for prelims. So, I have 2 choices--apply to programs now with the case report listed as an experience and attempt to contact programs later to let them know when it was submitted, or wait a few weeks until I submit it and list it as a submitted article and apply then. The residency I'm applying to really values research and publications, which is why I was leaning towards the second option although it will hurt my chances at prelim/transitional applications. However, if there is a good enough way to let programs know I've submitted the article before they offer interview invitations, I'd much rather apply earlier.

It would seem your options are:
1. List it as "submitted"
2. In the description of the experience, mention that it has been submitted.
3. Don't list it, and send an email to programs if/when it gets accepted.

Personally, if your top choice program is research crazy, I'd simply list it as submitted -- the upside (that your top choice will pay attention to you) is much higher than the downside (that someone will see a rejected manuscript as a negative -- personally, I don't think it's much of a negative and prelim programs will certainly not care)

 

[mm3794]

I think the best is to put the article as "submitted" and then bring a copy of the specific PDF format that a journal establishes when you submit an article.

 

[Buzz Me]

Submitted publications don't count for much. Anyone can just submit willy-nilly.

The next step up would be "accepted, publication in press."