Non-Trad student (Ex-RN) turned M4 AMA

[allojay]

Hi there fellow non-trads!

With 4th year being very relaxing atm, I thought I would come back here to the thread and offer to answer any questions that you may have, regarding the whole journey from undergrad to almost graduating med school. Fire away and I'll do my best to answer your questions as honest as possible.

Brief background
-Graduated with BSN
-Worked as a critical care RN for a few years
-Took old MCAT
-M4 student at USMD school on East Coast
-Currently awaiting residency match results for a competitive surgical subspecialty

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[RNthenDoc]

Was your experience at all helpful in the preclinical years?

Was there anything that made coming from a nursing background HARDER than any other one? (I’ve been asked this in many interviews. Interviewers seem to think nurses are handicapped when it comes to medical school.)

 

[allojay]

Was your experience at all helpful in the preclinical years?


To be completely honest, my nursing experience was not at all helpful during my first year of med school. Nursing school didn't really prepare me for the 'basic sciences' aspect of med school, so while my peers were easily grasping the material, I had to spend a lot of time learning the material. Obviously, it sucked gong through it but once we started hitting the organ blocks, the nursing experience helped out big time. My school has a problem based learning curriculum, so my 2nd year of med school was a blast.

Was there anything that made coming from a nursing background HARDER than any other one? (I’ve been asked this in many interviews. Interviewers seem to think nurses are handicapped when it comes to medical school.)

The only thing that I could say that makes the nursing background harder to come from is the lack of in-depth basic sciences teaching in nursing school. I feel like a lot of the sciences were taught at a superficial level and didn't delve as deep as medical school does. I disagree that nurses are handicapped when it comes to medical school. IMO, nurses are great candidates because they have prior clinical experiences that will allow them to learn the science behind a lot of what they were doing as nurses. Interviewers are hit or miss and not all people think this way. When I interviewed, most people actually felt that my nursing experience was a good thing and felt that it would benefit my peers, hearing my experiences.

 

[ljkeeper]

What kind of responses did you get from your nursing peers when you made the decision to go to med school? What was the response from your med school peers when they learned you were previously a nurse?

Also what kind of GPA/MCAT did you get in with, if it was below average do you feel like being a nurse and having so much clinical experience helped you get in?

 

[aneres1390]

Did it matter when you took the MCAT? I'm supposed to take it April but want to push to June and I don't know if it will "affect" me as a Non-Trad and RN, thank you!!!

 

[allojay]

What kind of responses did you get from your nursing peers when you made the decision to go to med school? What was the response from your med school peers when they learned you were previously a nurse?

That's a very good question lol. When they first heard, they congratulated me and were happy for me. But seeing how miserable the docs on our floor were on a daily basis, they asked me if I really wanted to pursue medicine despite all the concerns regarding the debt, the lifestyle, and stress. I'll always remember what one of the seasoned nurses said to me, and I'm paraphrasing here..'No matter how far you go, and how famous you get, always remember to do well by your patients and listen to your nurses.' I've always taken that advice with me and it's something that has allowed my medical school experience to be good for the most part.


Also what kind of GPA/MCAT did you get in with, if it was below average do you feel like being a nurse and having so much clinical experience helped you get in?

I don't want to give away too much detail here, but to answer your question, I had an average MCAT score and my GPA was a 3.9+. Back when I was applying, the MCAT meant everything and played a huge role in getting interviews. But for me, my GPA definitely helped me make up for an average GPA.

To answer the other part of your question, I think that medical schools tend to look at applicants in a systematic type of way. First, is this person capable of handling the academic rigors of medicine? Two, is this person going to be respectful and take good care of patients? Three, does this person bring something unique to our program? Four, does this person have a backstory showing grit or redemption?

So I guess my response is that schools for the most part IMO, don't pick and choose at one thing or the other. Once you're invited for an interview, they tend to look at the whole applicant. For example, lets say your MCAT is below average, but you have a great GPA and have a solid clinical experience and great letters, some programs may take a chance on you. In my case, my school's Dean and I hit it off on my interview day, and they felt that my background would bring a unique perspective to their program, so they accepted me. I don't think the clinical experience per se helped me get in, but it was my reason regarding leaving nursing for medicine that allowed me to get in. Hopefully that answered your question.

 

[HopesDreams]

What was the final tipping point to make you take the leap and turn your decision to go down this path from a thought to a serious action? What was the first action that you took? Did you manage to have a life outside of school or did it consume all of your time? Retrospectively, would you say that the journey so was worth it?

You don't have to answer all of these but, any insight is helpful. Thanks for doing this.

 

[allojay]

Did it matter when you took the MCAT? I'm supposed to take it April but want to push to June and I don't know if it will "affect" me as a Non-Trad and RN, thank you!!!

I don't think it matters when you take the MCAT. Just make sure to do as well as you can on it. It's really sucks but being a non-trad from the get go, really puts us at a disadvantage, so to even have a legit shot, we have to impress programs with our academics (especially nurses). Nurses are constantly dumped on by our physician colleagues for the nursing school curriculum and the lack of standardization in earning the RN/BSN degree, so many medical schools perceive nurses as not having a strong 'basic science' academic base. So if you can do well on your MCAT, I think you've got a great shot to go to great medical schools.

But please don't rush to take it like I did. Take your time with the prep and don't take it lightly. This matters a lot! The application process from med school even to residency is a game of filters. For example, a Gpa <3.7 is sent to the trash, academic red flags sent to the trash, DUI's sent to the trash, MCAT <n, send to the trash. So the goal to getting interviews means jumping through all those filters and then once someone gets a hold of your application, wow them with your LORs and personal statement, which plays a bigger deal than most people would think.

 

[allojay]

What was the final tipping point to make you take the leap and turn your decision to go down this path from a thought to a serious action? What was the first action that you took? Did you manage to have a life outside of school or did it consume all of your time? Retrospectively, would you say that the journey so was worth it?

You don't have to answer all of these but, any insight is helpful. Thanks for doing this.

No problem! I'm literally bored out of my mind looking for things to do lol, so If my insight can help you at least a bit then I'm glad to help. To answer your question, I always knew medical school was the ultimate destination but I chose to do nursing initially as I thought it would better prepare for medical school, which it kind of did. But through out the process of nursing school till medical school, I recall several moments that definitely reaffirmed that med school was indeed the right choice for me.

One example was when I was working one night and I had an obese patient with chronic COPD, and sleep apnea and was just having a tough time breathing. He had his mask on, but was fighting it so much. I though he needed a low dose of ativan to calm him down. So I called the house doc (I worked in a hospital w/o residents) and he refused to do anything despite my urging. An hour passes and then the patient starts to become restless and pulls his mask off. He desaturates down and he's now down to like 85% and dropping. I call a rapid response, and the house doc comes down and eventually orders the same low dose ativan that I recommended an hour ago. I was very pissed to say the least. I have more stories but the gist is that I would always anticipate things before they happened with my patients and most of the physicians I worked with, did not care about my urgings. In addition, I had scenarios where I wasn't comfortable ordering certain medications that they prescribed, but as a nurse I had to give it. So a combination of those experiences pretty much affirmed that medical school had to be done.

I knew I was going to med school from the get go, so my whole college career and academic career during my tenure as an RN was pretty regimented. I remember working full time overnights then the morning after a night shift, I'd go home to shower, and then head to class from 9-4 then go home and nap and then be back at work for another overnight 12 hour shift. So it was tough having a life. At this point, I really focused on improving my physical health and spending time with friends and family. I was definitely hardcore, but there was definitely time to do leisurely activities like play video games and hang out with friends. I didn't have your typical college kid experience but I wasn't studying 24/7.

In retrospect, I think the journey was worth it but I wouldn't want my worst enemy to attempt it. You have to be a special kind of crazy to genuinely love this field and pretty much waste your 20's to learn about the human body and then work in a field that demands perfection and not displaying any weakness. to be honest, it's a cut throat field with tons of Type A personality individuals and the hardest part for me personally, was accepting the fact that I wasn't the smartest person in the room. I've busted my butt and I've pushed my body and mind to a level that I didn't even reach as nurse, but if I had to do it again, I would. And that's because I'm sick in the head and for some reason, no matter how demanding medicine is, I still love it and I want to be that person that's going to be there for my patients in their darkest hours.

Good question btw...keep 'em coming.

 

[RNthenDoc]

Man, I so feel that. I hate having to call someone for something that is *obviously* the only correct course of action.

Or for Tylenol.

Or a dang stool softener.

 

[allojay]

I've been fortunate enough to work with very supportive physician coworkers, who listen to what I say 99% of the time... but just gotta say, I was feeling this whole part.

Forget them not listening to you - what if they do, but they're tied up somewhere and can't get back to you? I've done more overriding what I wanted out of the pyxis/omnicell and then telling them about it/getting the order later, than I'd care to admit to. But that niggling feeling in the back of my head - what if this time he disagrees with me and decides to order something else? How do I handle that this levo/neo/whatever has been running for an hour now? - was always a concern.

The do I make this judgment call myself? Do I let the patient sit there with a BP of 50/20 despite the two liters I've already run under the table just because I can't get in touch with someone? It's awful. I'm so glad I'll finally, LEGALLY, be able to make these calls myself.

Exactly! you make a great point. During my time as an RN, I would always take it personally, but then going through my clinical years, I realized that a lot of these physicians were swamped in managing multiple patients and sometimes you have to deal with the more acute patient first before worrying about the other patients. Not all the physicians I worked with ignored me, but enough did to speak that fire to want to leave the field. But I definitely feel your pain...The thing that killed me the most about being an RN was that we were taught to go above and beyond for our patients, but there is only so much that the scope of practice allows, that you're just stuck waiting for things to happen before something is done. And I hated that. I wanted to be the person to prevent things from progressing to the point of no return.

I'm so happy that you can make those calls now and I can't wait to be making those calls in a few months.

 

[allojay]

Man, I so feel that. I hate having to call someone for something that is *obviously* the only correct course of action.

Or for Tylenol.

Or a dang stool softener.

Lol...I've had my fair share of Tylenol calls. Don't miss it at all.

 

[frisco024]

I'm graduating with my BSN next May. Any advice on how to manage doing a post-bacc/taking classes while working or doing a new grad program? How did you fit in classes with your work as an critical care nurse?

Thanks so much for this AMA! It has even tremendously encouraging and helpful reading about your experience!!

 

[RNthenDoc]

I did saturday/sunday and a day of PTO each week (I had ungodly amounts saved).

Then classes M-F.

It was ruff. Would not recommend.

 

[allojay]

I'm graduating with my BSN next May. Any advice on how to manage doing a post-bacc/taking classes while working or doing a new grad program? How did you fit in classes with your work as an critical care nurse?

Thanks so much for this AMA! It has even tremendously encouraging and helpful reading about your experience!!

No problem! I'm hoping you all can read about my experience and use it to make your journey even better than mine.

Honestly, calivianya nailed the most important points. Schedule classes around your work schedule or vice versa. I personally worked nights, so worst case scenario, I was able to go to class the morning after a night shift. I personally wouldn't recommend doing that for a whole semester, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I also second her recommendation of not working during the first 6 or so months, just because of orientation and how brutal the transition from student nurse to actual nurse is. Orientation is a crutch that eases you into the field, but you'll actually do most of your learning during that first year or so by yourself and it can be a bit brutal depending on the type of floor you're on. My first year was insanely crazy and trying to take classes in addition to it was not a great idea. I wish i could add more to calivianya's response but she really hit the key points.

 

[allojay]

I'm sure OP has great advice for this, too, but I'll chime in too.

I tried to get mostly Monday/Wednesday and Tuesday/Thursday classes. If that failed, I made sure my Monday/Wednesday/Friday class was an early morning one, and there was only one class I had to go to. I then worked 1900-0700 Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights. I took a nap Sunday morning after work, slept Sunday night, went to class Monday... then slept Wednesday night, took a brief nap after Thursday classes, and went to work at night. If I had a Friday morning class, I drove from work to school, went to class, and went to sleep afterwards. Rinse and repeat.

Way easier to go to school working full time night shift than working full time day shift, IMO.

While you're on orientation, it's pretty much not going to be possible to take in person classes, just because you can't pick your own schedule. Weekends were always shortest at my job (and most RN jobs, for real), so you probably won't have any problems working every single Friday and Saturday once you're out. It does suck for quality of life, though.

My personal advice is to take at least six months to one year out of school and just work, especially if you are in a specialty unit or critical care. Nursing school teaches you to be a generalist. It does not teach you about ICU specific drips, vents/CRRT, etc. You will have enough to learn your first year that trying to learn how to do your job PLUS going back to school would be a little much. Become good at your job, so your job is mostly autopilot and doesn't require intense concentration, before you add something else to your plate.

Thanks! your reply was golden!! I've really got nothing to add.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

When you were in nursing school, did you think you were learning things in the same depth as med school????

 

[RNthenDoc]

When you were in nursing school, did you think you were learning things in the same depth as med school????

I don’t think anybody equates nursing school to medical school... lol

 

[AsianPersuasion]

So...what's this competitive surgical specialty?! We all want to know!

 

[moonlight003]

Hello to anyone kind enough to read this,

I'm new and this is my first post here (although I've read several posts by many of you). I'm 24 years old and graduated from Loyola University Chicago with a BS in Biology in 2016. I finished with a horrendous GPA of 2.4 and 134 credit hours. (I'd failed and retook a few classes, but was mostly a C student). I did have personal circumstances due to which I didn't have the time or ability to dedicate 100% to school. I should've dropped my classes but that's another regret on growing list. I promise I'm smart, I was a good student in HS, had a good ACT score and had a scholarship to Loyola (which I later lost).

I took a year off after graduation and worked at Rush University Medical Center as an admin assistant in the Neurocritical Care department.

I've returned to school in fall 2017 and started taking upper level science courses and retook classes to get As and Bs in them and show upward grade trends. I'm still doing that now.

I have not taken the MCAT or GRE yet.

At this point, I'm trying to look for any post-bacc, Masters, or MD programs that may eventually be possible for me.

Anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here?

 

[allojay]

So...what's this competitive surgical specialty?! We all want to know!

Since I good the good news on monday, I'll say it now. Orthopedic surgery.

edit: Orthopaedic surgery. Just bc some people are anal about the spelling lol.

 

[allojay]

When you were in nursing school, did you think you were learning things in the same depth as med school????

The short answer is no. Nursing school was tough without a doubt, especially coming out of high school and competing against people my parents age (at the time), but the depth in med school is absolutely almost sickening at times lol. But in retrospect, I've come to appreciate why they did what they did. In nursing school, we are taught to identify a diagnosis by signs and symptoms. So a guy comes in with dyspnea, pedal edema, and crackles, and has a history of uncontrolled HTN, and most nurses will effectively assume he has CHF, which is correct. In med school, they make us go further than that. We get the same patient, but now we have to come up with differentials and dig deeper. So yes the patient may have CHF but are other possibilities? Is it maybe a pulmonary embolism, is it secondary to sleep apnea or sarcoidosis or lupus, etc. So the point of med school is to essentially to make you ask yourself, "Based on all this data in front of me, what does this patient most likely have and what are a few other possibilities in case my management for my original diagnosis doesn't work?"

So nursing definitely taught us everything about diagnosing patients, pharmacology, ethics, delegation, and etc, but the medical knowledge aspect is taught on a superficial level and I can't blame schools because there is so much to learn as a nurse. Medical students have residencies to learn the art of medicine. Nursing students have half a$$ clinicals (most of the times) and are expected to be knowledgeable to work as a FT RN right after they pass their boards, so i get it.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Since I good the good news on monday, I'll say it now. Orthopedic surgery.

edit: Orthopaedic surgery. Just bc some people are anal about the spelling lol.

Congrats!!! My other guess was ENT or plastic haha

 

[allojay]

Congrats!!! My other guess was ENT or plastic haha

Thank you so much!! I matched at my number 1 for ortho and its been awesome.

edit: I could never do plastics but ENT was actually pretty interesting.

 

[Quizlet04]

Gpa <3.7 is sent to the trash,

This is why I made my post.

 

[allojay]

This is why I made my post.

Again, GPA is one of many factors that schools look at. I was just giving an example. Sorry for writing that down. I was just trying to make a point. But I think that everyone has something that they can use to make themselves stand out. IMO, you have to prove yourself academically, socially, and medically. Can you handle the rigors of med school? Can you be social and build rapport with patients? Have you worked in a healthcare setting and had some sort of patient interaction?

 

[Quizlet04]

Again, GPA is one of many factors that schools look at. I was just giving an example. Sorry for writing that down. I was just trying to make a point. But I think that everyone has something that they can use to make themselves stand out. IMO, you have to prove yourself academically, socially, and medically. Can you handle the rigors of med school? Can you be social and build rapport with patients? Have you worked in a healthcare setting and had some sort of patient interaction?

The last two of which have nothing to do with GPA.

 

[lacZee]

Have you been able to work as a nurse while in med school? @allojay

 

[allojay]

Have you been able to work as a nurse while in med school? @allojay

I actually worked part time during the first two years of med school. It's possible during M1 & M2 year but coming closer to board prep time and also with M3 rotations, it's nearly impossible to pick up shifts consistently, without upsetting your employer lol. If you could avoid it, I would but if you're used to your study methods in medical school and have free time to do other things, then by all means, work per diem or part time. Just don't spread yourself too thin.

 

[lacZee]

I actually worked part time during the first two years of med school. It's possible during M1 & M2 year but coming closer to board prep time and also with M3 rotations, it's nearly impossible to pick up shifts consistently, without upsetting your employer lol. If you could avoid it, I would but if you're used to your study methods in medical school and have free time to do other things, then by all means, work per diem or part time. Just don't spread yourself too thin.

Thanks! Very helpful