Nontrad: Strong MCAT, weak GPA, varied life experiences

[agetker]

Hi everyone! I'm a nontraditional student planning to apply both MD and DO this cycle. I have a bad GPA, and I am not sure how possible it is to overcome it.

sGPA: 3.1
cGPA: 3.3
MCAT: 516
Graduate certification in Medical Microbiology with 3.8 GPA (15 credits)
Disadvantaged, ORM, 27 years old.

Excuse my inexact hours listed, the AAMC website is down at the moment.

Thousands of non-science work hours. (Many jobs from age 16 and up, ranging from retail to bartending to editorial work for a scientific website)
Thousands of research work hours. (Cancer research, histopathology; toxicogenomics)
Hundreds of research volunteer hours. (Undergraduate neurology biomedical engineering, one publication acknowledgment)
Hundreds of nonclinical service volunteer hours. (Literacy program for disadvantaged students, American Cancer Society, Meals on Wheels)
~200-400 medical work hours. (Sterile processing/surgical support, kicker: no direct patient contact, operating room prep/coordinating)
Beginning shadowing June 1, likely 60ish hours of surgical shadowing by secondary submissions.
5 strong letters (Research (work), Research (volunteer), Research PI (work), Professor of Molecular Bio, Service Coordinator)
1 hopeful letter (Surgeon I will be shadowing)

My circumstances have been extremely turbulent, came from a physically abusive household, and was thrown out at age 17. I've been independent financially ever since. Lived in four different states and attended four colleges, frequent moves were due to spousal military relocation. Faced marital abandonment during my second semester at my dream university and filed for divorce which was extremely difficult for me and of course, affected my GPA. I also faced a violent sexual assault at this university which, while I won't discuss, perhaps gives some context to you all as to my poor performance. Forgive me for writing a "sob story" which is the opposite of my intention on my actual application... just want to lay it all out there.

I had to work to support myself through every phase of my education. COVID prevented me from getting the meaningful clinical experience I really wanted during my time at my dream university. I could not afford to work as a medical scribe and needed to leverage my research experience to get a good-paying job, which brings me to my current position as a histopathology technician for a great company that focuses on high-throughput proteomic and genomic analysis of enriched tumor tissue from American servicemen and women, with a strong focus in gynecological cancers.

I'm struggling to maximize my school list. What do you think? I have made up my mind to apply this semester as I've received financial aid to do so and my MCAT score (4/15 tester) looked like a green light for me. If I need to apply in a different cycle, I'll do that too. There is very little that can dissuade me from this path, and I've never wavered yet.

Any advice & school recommendations would be wonderful. I know my GPA ****ing sucks, but I hope my MCAT can provide a balance to make me competitive for some lower-tier schools. Thanks for this fantastic resource.

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[candbgirl]

Do you have any clinical experience with direct patient contact? You need a minimum of 150 hours and many School expect more. It is very important that you have direct patient contact experience. I wouldn’t apply without it but of course it’s up to you.
You only need 50 hours of shadowing total but some should be with a primary care doc. Ask the surgeon to hook you up with a PCP for a couple of days.
You have lots of research focused activities. Why not pursue a PhD instead?
Good luck as you move forward.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Where do you live or have state residency? How long ago have you been in a classroom? Would you consider an SMP or career changer postbac (if it's been that long since you took physics, for example)?

PREview/Casper? How well did you do on practice MCATs, or is the 516 an official score from your April test?

I will agree why you think it has to be doctor or bust? Would you consider PA (meaning Pathologist Assistant)? We need good histotech and CLT folks.

Think carefully what you want to disclose. You have a lot for the Other Impactful Experiences essay, but you don't have 5000 characters.

 

[agetker]

Hey, thank you both for your thoughtful responses.

I live in VA, have been here just under a year, and have state residency.

I graduated college in 2021, I have been taking online coursework for my medical microbiology certification which will be completed this semester. I do not have any direct patient contact experience, which will certainly be a detriment to my application. I think if I am rejected this cycle, that will likely be the #1 issue. If necessary, I am happy to consider a postbac.

I thank you also for considering other academic avenues for me. I find research interesting and enjoy my work, but I don't think I will ever be fulfilled with a successful research career. I really want to work in the service of others directly and form one-on-one relationships with those individuals (especially those who lack adequate medical access). To me, I won't be satisfied without being up close and personal, working with individual patients. Research is crucial, but far removed from the human side of disease. I want to have the capability to directly intervene in the disease process and help create novel and effective treatment plans.

516 is my official MCAT score which I received this past Tuesday. I have not yet taken PreView/CASPER, but plan to.

Distilling down my personal statement has been a challenge, of course, but I am getting closer to a focused rationale without unnecessary detail.

 

[agetker]

Do you have any clinical experience with direct patient contact? You need a minimum of 150 hours and many School expect more. It is very important that you have direct patient contact experience. I wouldn’t apply without it but of course it’s up to you.
You only need 50 hours of shadowing total but some should be with a primary care doc. Ask the surgeon to hook you up with a PCP for a couple of days.
You have lots of research focused activities. Why not pursue a PhD instead?
Good luck as you move forward.

Also, thanks for the primary care suggestion. I work with a lot of surgeons so that's what was most available to me. Do you find primary care shadowing is best for medical applicants generally or do you suggest it in light of my specific circumstances?

 

[Faha]

Do you have any clinical volunteering/employment hours with patient contact ? If none you should postpone you application for another year and accumulate 200+ hours.

 

[Goro]

A high MCAT doesn't remediate a weak GPA.

 

[candbgirl]

Also, thanks for the primary care suggestion. I work with a lot of surgeons so that's what was most available to me. Do you find primary care shadowing is best for medical applicants generally or do you suggest it in light of my specific circumstances?

Med Schools like to see continuity of care (primary care) and they suggest shadowing PCPs. Despite what applicants think now many end up in one of the PCPs. PCPs are sort of the base of medical practice. You don’t need a ton of hours. Just a couple of days is enough.

 

[chilly_md]

I find research interesting and enjoy my work, but I don't think I will ever be fulfilled with a successful research career. I really want to work in the service of others directly and form one-on-one relationships with those individuals (especially those who lack adequate medical access). To me, I won't be satisfied without being up close and personal, working with individual patients.

The fact you have 1000's of hours of research and no clinical experience does not support this. Schools will find it hard to believe you and would rather not take the chance on your lower GPA.

 

[djseabas]

Hey, thank you both for your thoughtful responses.

I live in VA, have been here just under a year, and have state residency.

I graduated college in 2021, I have been taking online coursework for my medical microbiology certification which will be completed this semester. I do not have any direct patient contact experience, which will certainly be a detriment to my application. I think if I am rejected this cycle, that will likely be the #1 issue. If necessary, I am happy to consider a postbac.

I thank you also for considering other academic avenues for me. I find research interesting and enjoy my work, but I don't think I will ever be fulfilled with a successful research career. I really want to work in the service of others directly and form one-on-one relationships with those individuals (especially those who lack adequate medical access). To me, I won't be satisfied without being up close and personal, working with individual patients. Research is crucial, but far removed from the human side of disease. I want to have the capability to directly intervene in the disease process and help create novel and effective treatment plans.

516 is my official MCAT score which I received this past Tuesday. I have not yet taken PreView/CASPER, but plan to.

Distilling down my personal statement has been a challenge, of course, but I am getting closer to a focused rationale without unnecessary detail.

uh.. you got a 516? of course apply! people get in with low gas all the time, or go overseas, for god sakes down listen to people telling you you need to become a PA or PhD...

 

[Mr.Smile12]

uh.. you got a 516? of course apply! people get in with low gas all the time, or go overseas, for god sakes down listen to people telling you you need to become a PA or PhD...

Well, we do ask why you aren't thinking about those careers.

We only deal in probabilities. If there is a mission fit, that's important too.

 

[mistertwister]

Hi there, I'm an extremely similar applicant as you. My stats

sGPA: 2.9
cGPA: 3.1
MCAT: 518
Disadvantaged, ORM, 27 years old.

I applied last cycle without a single interview invite. I also took the MCAT before doing anything clinical (I thought it was like the GRE lol). With zero clinical hours, I fully expect the same to happen to you. You have to understand that adcoms are going to be confused why you have such conviction for medicine with zero actual experience in medicine.

You can't apply this cycle (or you can if you want to be like me I guess). You should start a medical assistant/scribe/research coordinator position with patient exposure. Simultaneously you should be taking 2-3 upper level undergraduate bio courses and score As in them to show that you can handle the work (search up "DIY postbacc" and Goro's guide to reinvention). This is probably better for you than an SMP since you need to work on clinical hours at the same time as your grades.

Feel free to DM.

 

[Ellesandra319]

for reference, had a pretty similar background and story. low GPA, 5-teens MCAT. i had ~1000 clinical hours and ~1000 clinical research hours. 5+ pubs. i ended up with:

3 DO II's
1 USMD II and subsequent WL
1 DO A.

(Of note, I only attended 1 of my DO II's because one was Liberty and I wasn't about to go there and the other was a school I liked less than the A I already had).

I will scream from the rooftops that a high MCAT doesn't make up for a low GPA, because I definitely thought when combined with my experiences and publications, it would. It doesn't lol. Ironically my MD II wasn't even my instate program (still a lil bitter about it tbh haha). so in retrospect, while i'm SUPER happy at the school I attend (and at the end of the day I'm gong to be a doctor), I would/should have done an SMP before applying.

all that to say, if you want to get in, you absolutely need more direct clinical patient care hours, and if you're wanting to get in MD, you're probs gonna need an SMP imo.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

You need 200+ clinical hours with patient contact.

As for the GPAs: you're going to need at least a DIY postbacc for MD...unless you have an upward trend.

 

[agetker]

I'm so grateful for every single comment here. Thank you for being realistic and for the amazing feedback.

I must give it a shot since I have financial aid and nothing to lose. I will be prepared for failure. I will plan for a stronger re-application. The train has already left the station as far as this cycle's applications go.

The truth is I couldn't afford to take a low-level clinical position. I'm drowning and needed to follow the path that led to a liveable salary. Of course, I don't expect the AAMC to understand or care about that. But I did want clinical work... COVID made it very difficult to get clinical hours when I finally made it to a university. Needed money, pursued research. I made a choice, and I'll try to remediate that for the next cycle.

Thank you all for your honest perspectives and sharing your experiences. I'm bracing myself and will try to be resilient and change my application for the better.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I don't expect the AAMC to understand or care about that

You're likely to get some love and forgiveness from ADCOMs when you tell your story...IF you are otherwise up to snuff. You do need to at least check the box for patient contact.