Not going to pharm school anymore. any suggestions

[mdlando]

I applied to one school early decision and got accepted. After much research on loans and the profession paired with the fact that it will cost 40k alone in tuition a year, i've decided to not go anymore. Even the lowest tuition state schools aren't worth what it costs to pay back the loans over 20 or 30 years. We aren't getting a doctors salary but the doctors debt is there.

For those of you in this same situation, if there is anyone out there, what have you done in place of pharm school? examples being careers or alternative schooling that doesn't screw you as much as pharmD tuition does?

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[PharmtoCS]

If I had to do something other than pharmacy, I would choose:

1) Software engineering / computer programming
2) Actuary, accounting, investment banking, or other finance
3) Other engineering
4) Physician assistant

Job prospects and gross salary may be comparable to that of pharmacists if not much better, without the need to take out an additional $200k+ loans and lose 4 years of earning potential.

 

[68quebec]

Med school, PA, NP, or start your own business...etc

 

[RxStudentatUB]

Definitely software engineering. Dentistry and Physician assistant a close second.

 

[deleted158872]

1/ Dentistry
2/ PA
3/ Software engineering

 

[mdlando]

Med school, PA, NP, or start your own business...etc

not competitive enough for med school. i'm sitting on a 3.3. And nurse practioner is pricey too especially if your not a nurse already

 

[mdlando]

If I had to do something other than pharmacy, I would choose:

1) Software engineering / computer programming
2) Actuary, accounting, investment banking, or other finance
3) Other engineering
4) Physician assistant

Job prospects and gross salary may be comparable to that of pharmacists if not much better, without the need to take out an additional $200k+ loans and lose 4 years of earning potential.

i know you are all over the place on SDN and have some honest opinions, what do you thing about nursing, just regular RN. I know income is less but debt is almost non existent if you do it right

 

[PharmtoCS]

i know you are all over the place on SDN and have some honest opinions, what do you thing about nursing, just regular RN. I know income is less but debt is almost non existent if you do it right

Probably far more saturated than pharmacy with everyone and their mom thinking that it's an easy stable career to get into. Hospitals have cut nursing staff due to reductions in reimbursement from Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance. Healthcare as a whole is likely to face reductions in staffing, salaries, and reimbursements with the ACA in place as well as general public pressure to reduce healthcare costs.

 

[engmedpt]

Biotech

You can get a paid for master's if you work with an assistantship....get intern semester at a big company and relocate.

 

[deleted158872]

not competitive enough for med school. i'm sitting on a 3.3. And nurse practioner is pricey too especially if your not a nurse already

3.3 is competitive for Dentistry. If you crack the DAT, you'll be all set.

 

[dread090]

i know you are all over the place on SDN and have some honest opinions, what do you thing about nursing, just regular RN. I know income is less but debt is almost non existent if you do it right

Probably far more saturated than pharmacy with everyone and their mom thinking that it's an easy stable career to get into. Hospitals have cut nursing staff due to reductions in reimbursement from Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance. Healthcare as a whole is likely to face reductions in staffing, salaries, and reimbursements with the ACA in place as well as general public pressure to reduce healthcare costs.

As a working RN... don't do it. Stoichiometrist is correct in everything mentioned. Nursing was a pain to get into, a pain to get hired, a pain to get paid what you deserve, and a pain to simply do the job. It took me 2 years to work out a situation where I have a semi-flexible schedule with higher compensation that is still $20/hour less than I should be making for what I do.

 

[68quebec]

not competitive enough for med school. i'm sitting on a 3.3. And nurse practioner is pricey too especially if your not a nurse already

you are minimizing yourself already. 3.3 is doable with DO school at least.

 

[Jibby321]

3.3 is competitive for Dentistry. If you crack the DAT, you'll be all set.

My grandpa is a dentist and his been since the 60's. He is the main reason I didn't go to dental school. He said the "golden ages" are well over. He has some strong opinions. Basically the same situation as pharmacy schools.

 

[deleted158872]

My grandpa is a dentist and his been since the 60's. He is the main reason I didn't go to dental school. He said the "golden ages" are well over. He has some strong opinions. Basically the same situation as pharmacy schools.

doctors will tell you that the 'golden age' of medicine is over, too.... pff

 

[Jibby321]

doctors will tell you that the 'golden age' of medicine is over, too.... pff
the bolded part: lol .. sdners!

I'm just telling you what someone in my family who practices dentistry said.... "Avoid the field"

 

[rederza]

Okay, I think I can answer most of your questions. I dropped out of pharmacy school, AFTER I've already started so my GPA was a bit lowered. (I had 3.08 in p school) but my undergrad GPA was 3.93. I was really late into the research on pharmacy school, and it wasn't SDN that convinced me to drop, it was my school itself. Portrayal of the future profession was weak, and the dean forced meetings on us to tell us stuff like, how great we are, how much the school has grown despite not getting that much funds, pointless drivel. We were all told to do PGY's to secure jobs. We were even told that it was hard to get a job now (One teacher told us over 40 people applied to a well known chain and only 4 people got it last year. Granted it was in a major city, but still)

Anyways, my logic was the same, why do a doctor's debt without the doctor's pay? And it's not like I couldn't have gotten into medical school, my grades and experiences were all there. So I withdrew, took a 20k debt and nothing to show for it. I'm applying to medical school now. (But I also have a backup plan-I graduated early, so I'm 22, but I don't want to be out of school for more than a year)

I've never looked back, and I'm much more open to better careers now. Regarding other jobs you listed:

Nurse: My brother applied and got a full ride to a well known school for a BSN. So it's MORE than possible to get a alot of not most of the tuition covered for it. He also applied HSPS and they accepted him for the air force- so he'll be working with them after graduation. Maybe that would be better than working in large public hospitals? Most people complain a lot about nursing but I've actually haven't heard much from people who did it this route.

Dentist: My aunt is a dentist, but she's like 50. She has her own business, and she only works by appt. She's single, but she's probably the wealthiest out of my entire family, with the most leisurely lifestyle? Based on what she's told me. She was also upset I didn't choose this profession as she wanted someone to pass the practice to, and honestly so am I. But I don't think I could dig in people's mouth all day. Plus their debt is ridiculous, and I've seen more dentist shops than gas stations where I'm from.

EDIT::: Oh and my aunt/cousin is like only 2-3 years older than me and she's a PA for some special private surgery doctor or something. I don't talk much to her, but my parents have been relentlessly forcing me into that as well. So I'm guessing it's really good. I don't want to be a PA. I've seen and been personally treated by them and they are god awful and no better than a third year nursing student (IMO) I think people only want this career cause it's short and pays well, but I work with patients for like about 3 years now and the general consensus is no one wants to be treated by them if they can help it.

Hope this helps!

 

[deleted158872]

Okay, I think I can answer most of your questions. I dropped out of pharmacy school, AFTER I've already started so my GPA was a bit lowered. (I had 3.08 in p school) but my undergrad GPA was 3.93. I was really late into the research on pharmacy school, and it wasn't SDN that convinced me to drop, it was my school itself. Portrayal of the future profession was weak, and the dean forced meetings on us to tell us stuff like, how great we are, how much the school has grown despite not getting that much funds, pointless drivel. We were all told to do PGY's to secure jobs. We were even told that it was hard to get a job now (One teacher told us over 40 people applied to a well known chain and only 4 people got it last year. Granted it was in a major city, but still)

Anyways, my logic was the same, why do a doctor's debt without the doctor's pay? And it's not like I couldn't have gotten into medical school, my grades and experiences were all there. So I withdrew, took a 20k debt and nothing to show for it. I'm applying to medical school now. (But I also have a backup plan-I graduated early, so I'm 22, but I don't want to be out of school for more than a year)

I've never looked back, and I'm much more open to better careers now. Regarding other jobs you listed:

Nurse: My brother applied and got a full ride to a well known school for a BSN. So it's MORE than possible to get a alot of not most of the tuition covered for it. He also applied HSPS and they accepted him for the air force- so he'll be working with them after graduation. Maybe that would be better than working in large public hospitals? Most people complain a lot about nursing but I've actually haven't heard much from people who did it this route.

Dentist: My aunt is a dentist, but she's like 50. She has her own business, and she only works by appt. She's single, but she's probably the wealthiest out of my entire family, with the most leisurely lifestyle? Based on what she's told me. She was also upset I didn't choose this profession as she wanted someone to pass the practice to, and honestly so am I. But I don't think I could dig in people's mouth all day. Plus their debt is ridiculous, and I've seen more dentist shops than gas stations where I'm from.

Hope this helps!

bold move! what is your backup plan, if you don't mind answering? (you can answer in PM, too)

 

[rederza]

bold move! what is your backup plan, if you don't mind answering? (you can answer in PM, too)

pm'ed

 

[RxStudentatUB]

doctors will tell you that the 'golden age' of medicine is over, too.... pff
the bolded part: lol .. sdners!

Doctors tell people other than their children and immediate family that the 'golden age' of medicine is over, yet they go ahead and make sure their own flesh and blood enter medicine. Pharmacists tell people other than their children and immediate family that the 'golden age' of pharmacy is over, and they'll go ahead and make sure their own flesh and blood do not even consider pharmacy.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Doctors tell people other than their children and immediate family that the 'golden age' of medicine is over, yet they go ahead and make sure their own flesh and blood enter medicine. Pharmacists tell people other than their children and immediate family that the 'golden age' of pharmacy is over, and they'll go ahead and make sure their own flesh and blood do not even consider pharmacy.

Seems like it's the same with software engineers for the former. I hear a lot of complaints about outsourcing and H1Bs depressing wages, yet new grads are earning $100k+ at age 22 straight out of college.

 

[MatCauthon]

Congratulations on taking the bold steps to untangle yourself from the pharmacy profession. Stay creative and don't rely on other people's opinions to tell you what to do. Your own sense of self-reliance is what you need right now.

 

[darknightzzz]

3.3 is competitive for Dentistry. If you crack the DAT, you'll be all set.

Nope, 3.3 is not competitive for dentistry. People get admitted with this low GPA and good DAT to really expensive school >80k tuition only per year (extra is equipment fee, room board, and food). Competitive now starts at 3.5 but with a lot of science courseload full time (as little a possible the community college courses

I am surprised that pharmacy schools take in students from 40percentile PCAT to above. DAT above 20 means you are 85percentile above. just let that sink it.

 

[Jibby321]

Nope, 3.3 is not competitive for dentistry. People get admitted with this low GPA and good DAT to really expensive school >80k tuition only per year (extra is equipment fee, room board, and food). Competitive now starts at 3.5 but with a lot of science courseload full time (as little a possible the community college courses

I am surprised that pharmacy schools take in students from 40percentile PCAT to above. DAT above 20 means you are 85percentile above. just let that sink it.

Only the expensive private schools. Just like you said with dental schools. They have to fill their seats so less qualified students get in.

 

[Screwtape]

We are talking about your future career, if you want to do medicine or whatever then go for it. Don't let the "competition" scare you off. Take some extra classes or do something else and make yourself more competitive. Figure out what you want and make it happen. People with 3.3s get into every health profession every year.

 

[deleted158872]

Doctors tell people other than their children and immediate family that the 'golden age' of medicine is over, yet they go ahead and make sure their own flesh and blood enter medicine. Pharmacists tell people other than their children and immediate family that the 'golden age' of pharmacy is over, and they'll go ahead and make sure their own flesh and blood do not even consider pharmacy.

lol

 

[RxStudentatUB]

Nope, 3.3 is not competitive for dentistry. People get admitted with this low GPA and good DAT to really expensive school >80k tuition only per year (extra is equipment fee, room board, and food). Competitive now starts at 3.5 but with a lot of science courseload full time (as little a possible the community college courses

I am surprised that pharmacy schools take in students from 40percentile PCAT to above. DAT above 20 means you are 85percentile above. just let that sink it.

3.0-3.4 GPA and high DAT are good match for private dental schools. With a good SMP and masters, there's a much better chance to get into the state school.

Students are getting accepted to pharmacy school with 40% PCAT because there are way too many seats available. Possibly more seats than applicants. To keep their schools open, admissions are accepting people who haven't done their research into a career which offers very little monetary return relative to podiatry, dentistry and medicine. It is a business move, plain and simple. As long as 4-year degrees in the Arts and English are being offered at the price of $60,000 per year in private universities, 4 year doctorate of Pharmacy Degrees will continue to be offered at similar prices.

 

[engmedpt]

Schools need to be regulated. I'm sorry that's the only way. The tuition hike and easy loan stupid high interest rate has created a funnel out of poverty. That funnel goes crazy at professional school level because you can almost never gain scholarship. Someone may call me out here, but there should be intervention IMO

 

[engmedpt]

Granted....there is momentum gaining for refinancing at a lower interest rate I have heard on the loans.

 

[darknightzzz]

3.0-3.4 GPA and high DAT are good match for private dental schools. With a good SMP and masters, there's a much better chance to get into the state school.

Students are getting accepted to pharmacy school with 40% PCAT because there are way too many seats available. Possibly more seats than applicants. To keep their schools open, admissions are accepting people who haven't done their research into a career which offers very little monetary return relative to podiatry, dentistry and medicine. It is a business move, plain and simple. As long as 4-year degrees in the Arts and English are being offered at the price of $60,000 per year in private universities, 4 year doctorate of Pharmacy Degrees will continue to be offered at similar prices.

Yes, but no offense, 3.0-3.4 GPA need above 21DAT (95 percentile) so it takes time and persistence to do.

yea i personally knew 2 friends (3.4 GPA CC, 3.1 GPA UC, 50percentile) got in Roseman nevada, another (3.5UC GPA, 50 percentile GPA, got in midwestern chicago.

these schools are established schools. I am surprised they take studdents with such low stats in

 

[mdlando]

Nope, 3.3 is not competitive for dentistry. People get admitted with this low GPA and good DAT to really expensive school >80k tuition only per year (extra is equipment fee, room board, and food). Competitive now starts at 3.5 but with a lot of science courseload full time (as little a possible the community college courses

I am surprised that pharmacy schools take in students from 40percentile PCAT to above. DAT above 20 means you are 85percentile above. just let that sink it.

my thoughts exactly, I have a 3.3 but its with C+ in both O chem. I basically got straitght A's my last two semesters and good extracurriculars which is why I think I got in, but yeah definetly not competitive for dentistry or DO. Maybe in the caribean...

 

[mdlando]

We are talking about your future career, if you want to do medicine or whatever then go for it. Don't let the "competition" scare you off. Take some extra classes or do something else and make yourself more competitive. Figure out what you want and make it happen. People with 3.3s get into every health profession every year.

Well I want to do pharmacy, its always been the plan, but 40K a year tuition and with a wife and new baby on the way makes it not worth it. Have you ever ran the numbers on 250k loans, take home after taxes, etc. not worth it. its basicall an entry level 45k a year salary

 

[mdlando]

Schools need to be regulated. I'm sorry that's the only way. The tuition hike and easy loan stupid high interest rate has created a funnel out of poverty. That funnel goes crazy at professional school level because you can almost never gain scholarship. Someone may call me out here, but there should be intervention IMO

so accurate

 

[Screwtape]

Yes, but no offense, 3.0-3.4 GPA need above 21DAT (95 percentile) so it takes time and persistence to do.

yea i personally knew 2 friends (3.4 GPA CC, 3.1 GPA UC, 50percentile) got in Roseman nevada, another (3.5UC GPA, 50 percentile GPA, got in midwestern chicago.

these schools are established schools. I am surprised they take studdents with such low stats in

Neither of these schools have graduated a dental class yet... not sure what your definition of established is...

 

[Screwtape]

Well I want to do pharmacy, its always been the plan, but 40K a year tuition and with a wife and new baby on the way makes it not worth it. Have you ever ran the numbers on 250k loans, take home after taxes, etc. not worth it. its basicall an entry level 45k a year salary

Yes well those factors definitely change things, I don't believe you mentioned them in your original post. You probably should have mentioned your degree (s) and GPA/ other qualifications if you want helpful/ realistic advice on alternative careers.

 

[Mad Jack]

Medical school

 

[BC_89]

Well I want to do pharmacy, its always been the plan, but 40K a year tuition and with a wife and new baby on the way makes it not worth it. Have you ever ran the numbers on 250k loans, take home after taxes, etc. not worth it. its basicall an entry level 45k a year salary

No matter what decision you make : consider the following

#1) have the wife do a "home - employment" while your in school that way she can still be a mother and qualify for food stamps. Considering your 4 year rent cost of being around 40k, this will minimally easily be cut in half all in all.

#2) MEDICAID for the newborn ( I have a one year old myself). Goes without saying, WIC is tide into this and a huge relief!! (especially when you dont have to pay for out of pocket name brand formulas that to me can be just as stressful to buy as thinking of loans in pharmacy).

#3) Start a mutual fund BEFORE pharmacy school (your case perhaps right now): If you can be disciplined in putting in even a minimal 50 - 75 bucks (or less) a month into a mutual fund plus half your tax returns the first two years and a "guesstimation" minimum of a 3 - 7% compounded interest return for yourself, you can see this money "add up" quickly a few years down the road past your licensure day as a pharmacist.

For these, no matter the decision, do them. If you do a construction job before pharmacy budget a good sum into a fund now...do the math on your return and see how much that can really help in the long run (I hate economics by all means, but this should help cut things down to some extent).

Now as for pharmacy school : many say for every year lost its 100k you could have made...thats only half truth. in the long run, if you can get accepted into a 3 year program or ANY other program for instate or even cheaper for budgeting, you will see that this built interest on your loans over a period of 10 or 30 years at a cheaper school is better than major debt from another university with 100k salary earned (take 40% from tax and what not though). Lastly, if disciplined, plan out a 30 year pay back plan but in reality pay it all off within 10 years if applicable!! you cannot file bankruptcy on student loans but you sure can have a safety net a couple of months in between your 10 year plan if an emergency every occurs since you are paying more than a minimum pay back loan period.

If passion is there, the pay and patience will be rewarded!

P.S. you seem awfully familiar lol

 

[Neodynium]

Silly question here,
Would a CS major still be available after doing 2 years of pre-requisites(Orgo,Chem,Bio, etc...) for pharm school? [What i mean as in getting a bachelors in CS 2 years after the 2 years of pre-pharm)
Always had a penchant in coding; would like to place CS as a plan B if I don't get into pharmacy.
Some insight would be nice :_:

 

[PharmtoCS]

Silly question here,
Would a CS major still be available after doing 2 years of pre-requisites(Orgo,Chem,Bio, etc...) for pharm school? [What i mean as in getting a bachelors in CS 2 years after the 2 years of pre-pharm)
Always had a penchant in coding; would like to place CS as a plan B if I don't get into pharmacy.
Some insight would be nice :_:

Why isn't CS your Plan A?
In all seriousness though, compared to pharmacy, CS has better if not equal gross pay, MUCH better job prospects, a better work environment (compared to retail at least), and requires MUCH less debt and schooling. It may take up to 3 years since you might need to complete lower division CS/math courses, but it'll be well worth the return on investment.

 

[darknightzzz]

Silly question here,
Would a CS major still be available after doing 2 years of pre-requisites(Orgo,Chem,Bio, etc...) for pharm school? [What i mean as in getting a bachelors in CS 2 years after the 2 years of pre-pharm)
Always had a penchant in coding; would like to place CS as a plan B if I don't get into pharmacy.
Some insight would be nice :_:

i think u in all honestly should use pharmacy as a back up. you plan your plan kinda off here brooo

pharmacy, u take the courses listed, score B or few C, measure ur heart with a pulse they take u brooo

 

[BidingMyTime]

Yes, but no offense, 3.0-3.4 GPA need above 21DAT (95 percentile) so it takes time and persistence to do.
yea i personally knew 2 friends (3.4 GPA CC, 3.1 GPA UC, 50percentile) got in Roseman nevada, another (3.5UC GPA, 50 percentile GPA, got in midwestern chicago.
these schools are established schools. I am surprised they take studdents with such low stats in

Chicago has 5 colleges of pharmacy, so its not surprising that Midwestern Chicago has to take anyone to fill seats. Not to mention, UIC is the established college, not Midwestern (Midwestern would be the 2nd established college, but it just opened late 90's I think, its still relatively new.)

 

[engmedpt]

Silly question here,
Would a CS major still be available after doing 2 years of pre-requisites(Orgo,Chem,Bio, etc...) for pharm school? [What i mean as in getting a bachelors in CS 2 years after the 2 years of pre-pharm)
Always had a penchant in coding; would like to place CS as a plan B if I don't get into pharmacy.
Some insight would be nice :_:

Getting a CS degree and going to pharmacy school is a god awful decision unless you hate code more than life.

 

[Confused321]

I applied to one school early decision and got accepted. After much research on loans and the profession paired with the fact that it will cost 40k alone in tuition a year, i've decided to not go anymore. Even the lowest tuition state schools aren't worth what it costs to pay back the loans over 20 or 30 years. We aren't getting a doctors salary but the doctors debt is there.

For those of you in this same situation, if there is anyone out there, what have you done in place of pharm school? examples being careers or alternative schooling that doesn't screw you as much as pharmD tuition does?

I am in a similar situation, what did you decide to pursue in the end?

 

[aboveliquidice]

Well I want to do pharmacy, its always been the plan, but 40K a year tuition and with a wife and new baby on the way makes it not worth it. Have you ever ran the numbers on 250k loans, take home after taxes, etc. not worth it. its basicall an entry level 45k a year salary

Plenty of ways to.offset.the debt. Income based repayment, 10 year forgiveness for govservice,loan repayment for military service. Nothing is ever as good or asbad as it seems. Engineers have competition. nursing does, too. Most careers do. I wouldn't abandon my plans based upon perceived challenges. Validate your intuition,make a plan,and move out.

 

[ldiot]

I would avoid health care altogether and go for a masters in finance or just get a lab job in microbiology or chemistry. Not sure about job prospects or lifestyle but investing and finance I find interesting.

Coding would be boring and repetitive depending on the type of projects, though with the right skills and product I could see health IT producing some new millionaires.

 

[TactFR44]

I graduated from undergrad 2013. I was initially going to apply to Pharm school my junior year but decided to take a gap year to really figure it out. During that time, I did my research and realized how in bad of shape the pharmacy profession was...I looked into other careers and decided on PA school. I start in June.

PA school is a great career but admissions are VERY competitive. My school received 1950 applicants, interviewed 150, accepted 60. GPA: 3.6 HCE:2000 hours. etc. If you have the GPA then look into PA.

 

[Amicable Angora]

I applied to one school early decision and got accepted. After much research on loans and the profession paired with the fact that it will cost 40k alone in tuition a year, i've decided to not go anymore. Even the lowest tuition state schools aren't worth what it costs to pay back the loans over 20 or 30 years. We aren't getting a doctors salary but the doctors debt is there.

For those of you in this same situation, if there is anyone out there, what have you done in place of pharm school? examples being careers or alternative schooling that doesn't screw you as much as pharmD tuition does?

How old are you and what are your interests?

 

[jokersmiles]

Dental School.