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Not mentioning ethnicity on applications - disadvantage?

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Lucca

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    ChemEngMD

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      Is it bad for my app if I choose not to specify my ethinicity?
      I identify as South African but ethnically indian

      A previous thread uncovered that the "No Race Given" group of people have the highest average MCAT and GPA...so really by not disclosing it, you are putting yourself into the most competitive category.
       
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      shenellica

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        Is it bad for my app if I choose not to specify my ethinicity?
        I identify as South African but ethnically indian

        I think you answered your own question. You identify what as South African? Your nationality? Because in the question you just asked you said that you are "ethnically indian." Doesn't the question ask your ethnicity? It would be different if you considered yourself ethnically African or South African but the way you worded your question tells everything.

        Plus like the other poster said the people who don't identify usually have the highest score. Just identify yourself or if you want to risk it, don't.
         
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        sourdoughllama

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          I'm not gonna comment on the Affirmative action issue since it's been discussed for 16 pages with no one changing their minds. I'd just like to say that I'm a little appalled at the level of racism on this thread against Asian people. Even LizzyM and Goro, who I respect use bullsh*t stereotypes to reject applicants, wtf? "Their culture causes them to be less desirable," "they don't make eye contact," "they have bad accents." You're "helping them by rejecting them so they can pursue their real interests?" For real? So all black people are ghetto because a few of them say "aks" and "ambulamps" and will scare patients? All Indian people smell bad because they all eat curry all day and will offend patients? All hispanics are Catholic and will preach creationism? I'm sorry, these Asian stereotypes are super offensive and seem to be okay to just doll out because...let's be honest- Asian people aren't vocal and you can get away with it just like insulting white people is the norm. Yes, stereotypes often have truth to them but categorizing all people in a group by stereotypes if extremely ignorant. If you want to keep using these BS reasons for admissions, then don't post on here and try to defend it by spewing more stereotypes. That's freaking racist

          Edit: misquoted Goro
           
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          Reckoner

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            Preface: I'm Asian and I have never felt discriminated against nor am I a civil rights type of person. I don't even identify with being Asian that much (my family is from South America)

            I'm not gonna comment on the Affirmative action issue since it's been discussed for 16 pages with no one changing their minds. I'd just like to say that I'm a little appalled at the level of racism on this thread against Asian people. Even LizzyM and Goro, who I respect use bullsh*t stereotypes to reject applicants, wtf? "Their culture causes them to be less desirable," "they don't make eye contact," "they have bad accents." You're "helping them by rejecting them so they can pursue their real interests?" Others said "they're grade robots," "insensate grade robots." For real? So all black people are ghetto because a few of them say "aks" and "ambulamps" and will scare patients? All Indian people smell bad because they all eat curry all day and will offend patients? All hispanics are Catholic and will preach creationism? I'm sorry, these Asian stereotypes are super offensive and seem to be okay to just doll out because...let's be honest- Asian people aren't vocal and you can get away with it just like insulting white people is the norm. Yes, stereotypes often have truth to them but categorizing all people in a group by stereotypes if extremely ignorant. If you want to keep using these BS reasons for admissions, then don't post on here and try to defend it by spewing more stereotypes. That's freaking racist
            You really needed to bump this thread to get that off your chest? Seriously?? Busch league post
             
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            Reckoner

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              Yeah, I do. I'm okay with a lot of things but blatant racism isn't one of those things. You really needed to click on this thread and respond if you knew this was old??
              Did you read the whole thread? Others have posted the exact same sentiments (minus the ridiculous straw men), and it's already been addressed. Multiple times.
               
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              sourdoughllama

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                Did you read the whole thread? Others have posted the exact same sentiments (minus the ridiculous straw men), and it's already been addressed. Multiple times.
                Yeah I did, it was mostly @QuinnTheEskimo and friends. And it's not a straw man argument. I pointed out ridiculous stereotypes against one group of people and wrote out a few other ridiculous stereotypes against other groups. It's a public forum - if you don't want to read my posts then block me dude. I didn't tag you on my post nor do I really care whether you approve of my post or not
                 
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                Reckoner

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                  Yeah I did, it was mostly @QuinnTheEskimo and friends. It's a public forum - if you don't want to read my posts then block me dude. I didn't tag you on my post nor do I really care whether you approve of my post or not
                  I'm not going to block you, you're not a troll. This thread went off a cliff long ago, and I don't think it does anyone any good to bump it with a rehash of something that's already been debated ad nauseum. That's all.
                   
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                  sourdoughllama

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                    I'm not going to block you, you're not a troll. This thread went off a cliff long ago, and I don't think it does anyone any good to bump it with a rehash of something that's already been debated ad nauseum. That's all.

                    Fair enough. I was just reading the thread and while the topic was brought up, it was mostly dismissed. I almost never care about old threads but I am honestly surprised people think it's okay to use such ridiculous stereotypes at this time in history still. I'll stay away from bumping threads :)
                     

                    Lucca

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                      Fair enough. I was just reading the thread and while the topic was brought up, it was mostly dismissed. I almost never care about old threads but I am honestly surprised people think it's okay to use such ridiculous stereotypes at this time in history still. I'll stay away from bumping threads :)

                      Personally, I dismissed that discussion as much as I could precisely because it's so ridiculous. I agree with you that "casual" racism is totally not cool, but the parts of this thread that were productive and meaningful highlighted why shouts of racism, counter-racism and the like were just not meaningful - as in, they didn't contribute anything meaningful to the discussion.

                      Hugs all around.
                       
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                      Lily101

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                        I scrutinize everyone's motivation for medicine. The applicants most likely to "test positive" for external forces pushing them into medicine are Asian.

                        Every matriculant gets a criminal background check, not just the minorities. And a criminal background check is for criminal behavior... not criminal "tendencies" whatever those are. Sounds like some steroptyping going on here, bud.

                        Ironic, coming from you. That's the same as interrogating each Asian applicant for whether or not their parents forced them to become doctors (lower dedication tendencies). It's a potential flaw or indicator of future behavior that you're looking for, rather than an existing reality (past crime or faster burnout/less dedication). So yes, the equivalent for blacks would be to search for "criminal tendencies," based on realistic stats.

                        Of course that's awful and unacceptable to do to black applicants. So why is the stereotypical equivalent for Asians acceptable?

                        It's disgusting and disappointing how someone who is a SDN advisor can go around espousing racist and stereotypical beliefs. Even IF those stereotypes are true, it's still unacceptable to treat individuals differently on the basis of their group identity.
                         

                        LizzyM

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                          LizzyM said:
                          I scrutinize everyone's motivation for medicine. The applicants most likely to "test positive" for external forces pushing them into medicine are Asian.

                          Every matriculant gets a criminal background check, not just the minorities. And a criminal background check is for criminal behavior... not criminal "tendencies" whatever those are. Sounds like some steroptyping going on here, bud.

                          Ironic, coming from you. That's the same as interrogating each Asian applicant for whether or not their parents forced them to become doctors (lower dedication tendencies). It's a potential flaw or indicator of future behavior that you're looking for, rather than an existing reality (past crime or faster burnout/less dedication). So yes, the equivalent for blacks would be to search for "criminal tendencies," based on realistic stats.

                          Of course that's awful and unacceptable to do to black applicants. So why is the stereotypical equivalent for Asians acceptable?

                          It's disgusting and disappointing how someone who is a SDN advisor can go around espousing racist and stereotypical beliefs. Even IF those stereotypes are true, it's still unacceptable to treat individuals differently on the basis of their group identity.

                          How's that CARS score? Since you dug up this 4 year old thread and called me out, I feel the need to break this apart for you and explain what I said.
                          I scrutinize everyone's motivation for medicine.
                          What that means is that I look for motivation when I read an application and I ask about it during interviews. Every. time.
                          I don't scrutinize just some but everyone.
                          Why are they there? What are they hoping to achieve by attending medical school? What is the source of their motivation? A person who is externally motivated by parents or other outside forces can be of any race. These students are at increased risk of losing motivation and failing out or dropping out of school. I'm not looking for a potential flaw, I'm looking for applicants who would be a high risk for not completing the degree. The outcome is uncertain but the risk is real.

                          The applicants most likely to "test positive" for external forces pushing them into medicine are Asian.

                          I made this observation based on thousands of applications and hundreds of interviews over a decade of service on the adcom.

                          If I told you that I test every pregnant patient for HIV and patient group most likely to test positive were the [insert racial group here] patients would you tell me that I am racist??? Is there something racist or sterotypical about the data or about the fact that I test all pregnant patients?

                          Every matriculant gets a criminal background check, not just the minorities. And a criminal background check is for criminal behavior... not criminal "tendencies" whatever those are. Sounds like some steroptyping going on here, bud.

                          We do a criminal background check (CBC) on everyone just as we look at the motivations of everyone. We make no assumptions about who is most likely to have a criminal record; everyone is fingerprinted and goes through a CBC.
                           
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