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Nova :regarding prison rotations

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by ADRIANSHOE, Mar 31, 2000.

  1. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/daily/detail/0,1136,30000000000107695,00.html

    This is an article in TODAY's sun-sentinel.

    I find it fascinating, that while an ONGOING
    lawsuit regarding mandatory rotations in dangerous sites, the Dean of Nova's College of Osteopathic Medicine makes statements to the combined M1/M2 class which many students feel was a THREAT TO EXPEL any student making public statements about the MANDATORY prison rotations.

    The question is: did the Dean know there was an ongoing lawsuit involving a Nova Psychology student for the EXACT thing he was discussing with the medical students?
    Did he know that Nova had already lost in lower court and the appeals court and it was now being considered by the State Supreme Court? if he did....hmmmmm....if he didn't.....even bigger hmmmmmm.
     
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  3. Robb1818

    Robb1818 Member
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    Interesting...i'm sure you'll let us know what the outcome is?
     
  4. ZDoc

    ZDoc Junior Member
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    First of all, like I said before, the prison rotations are NOT mandatory. Secondly, where do you plan to do an internship and residency? It seems like most good programs are located in low economic, urban areas. I'll also go out on a limb and assume that you don't want to go into EM because of the same dangers. Also drawing blood is out. Maybe you should be an accountant.
     
  5. osteopathicman

    osteopathicman New Member

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    ZDoc,
    I wish you recall the very first time we were told in class that the prison is mandatory!!
    The dean withdrew his decision only after many confrontations with the students.

    Thanks adrainshoe for posting the article.
     
  6. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Zdoc, having done five ER rotations (Mt. Sinai, Columbia, Palmetto, Akron and Palms West, and having ended up with more than one squeezed cyst on my scrubs, I'd be the last person you could accuse of ducking gore...having VOLUNTEERED to work in the Pediatric AIDS department with Dr. Greta Steibel-Chin during IGC my first year...ask Debbi Steinkohl where i was...feel free...before you throw insults (which i have yet to throw in your direction because up until your last post you conducted yourself with a bit of professionalism), perhaps you should do some research on your target, otherwise you will sadly fall short...as you did.

    My point was: censorship by the dean at the same time a lawsuit was being handled by the university secondary to a MANDATORY rotation that resulted in a sexual assault, seems very coincidental. As for being an accountant, I count that its been over a week since you were asked regarding what happened with the dean and you never responded. Why not discuss the issue, why are you avoiding it? What are YOU afraid of...maybe you should go into some field that doesnt require a BACKBONE...why insult the messenger instead of discussing the topic? why not stick to the subject? the subject ISN"T whether the rotations are mandatory...the subject with me has NEVER been about the rotations...That's why i keep saying ITS NOT ABOUT THE ROTATIONS...its about censorship...get it...let me say it again for you...its about censorship...are you listening finally? zdoc? zdoc? are you there?
     
  7. SUNYboy

    SUNYboy Member
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    Adrianshoe,

    I have been reading a lot of your posts and a lot of your advice. It seems that you have "got your stuff together". You seem like an extremely diligent student, reading ICU stuff and all. If you don't mind, could you tell us what residency you will be doing, i.e. what specialty and D.O. or M.D.? I am just curious because I know they would be happy to have you.
     
  8. ZDoc

    ZDoc Junior Member
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    I'm not scared of our dean; I happen to like the man. Obviously you don't. Why don't YOU grow a spine and confront him in person instead of constantly whining about the incident behind his back. What did that article have to do with censorship? You're just taking pot shots at the school because you're disgruntled. Just because you matched already doesn't mean you have to attempt to destroy the reputation of a good medical school. By the way, I've been to Palmetto and Mt.Sinai. What happened, did you get into a fight with some drunk guy from S. beach dressed up like Madonna? If you have a problem with Nova, talk to the dean. Are you going to post messages when you get pimped by a resident or an attending. The osteopathic profession is close knit. Don't burn your bridges!
     
  9. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    It is good to see other students standing up to Shoey, our resident internet bully. To answer Sunyboy's question, Mr. Shoe is a soon to be PROUD graduate of Nova Southeastern University and will be starting a residency in FP at Florida Hospital East Orlando. He will spend his time complaining, whining, and waving the flag of free speech.
     
  10. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    so, waving the flag of free speech is WRONG? according to rolltide it seems to be. welcome to Nazi germany Herr Rolltide. which train do you want me to board?

    and Zdoc...your assumption is that I havent already spoken to the dean regarding his action? ok. just wanted to clarify.
    oh, zdoc...any comment on the censorship issue..tick, tick, tick...yep, didn't think so.
     
  11. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    by the way zdoc, I spoke very highly of both the Mount Sinai and the Palmetto programs in several postings and have had NO negative comments about either one....In fact I recommended both programs...anyone care to reread this to verify it, its in writing, go ahead use your research skills, or maybe we should continue our insults...by the way its good to see Rolltide drop his hypocritical stance regarding personal insults and get back to his true nature, thanks, i missed that.
     
  12. SUNYboy

    SUNYboy Member
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    Adrianshoe,
    Why do five ER rotations and then do FP? Did you apply to both or just decided that ER wasn't your thing? Just curious.
     
  13. ZDoc

    ZDoc Junior Member
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    Shoe, why didn't you go into EM. Did you have trouble matching into the program that you wanted? Is the reason that you're so pissed off at Nova because you got a crappy dean's letter and a poor class rank?
     
  14. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Those are valid questions ZDOC so I will answer them, you asked them without being personally insulting and i also appreciate that.
    ...I didnt go into ER because I came to NOVA under SYFAM and had every intention of going family practice, I also have a son who lives in florida and i plan to practice here which means i need a traditional internship and that also acts to eliminate ER, I also like to be able to follow up on my patients (which is the big reason i nixed ER) I did so many ER rotations because it is the PERFECT family practice learning environment...You get fairly instantaneous feedback on your thought processes that you wouldnt get in a family practice clinic...in other words, your labs and your xrays come back and you have time to get the big picture all in one shot, Also you get to see a lot of the decision making process involving in ADMITTING...this is a hard area for medical students to get good at...that gray zone of DO I ADMIT or DONT I...well, where else but the ER do you get to make that decision with a lot of patients daily?

    As for my choices: i chose ONE program and I matched with ONE program...I am in the top third of my class and was dean's list twice. So while i appreciate you trying to figure out the awful source of my disgruntlement, it would be easier just to ask wouldn't it?
    by the way are you ready to discuss what the dean said about censorship yet or are you still dodging this?
    as for your earlier statement about getting pimped, do yourself a favor ask the OMM fellow who rotated at West Palm Beach about Internal Medicine there and then ask him about how we did on our rotation, its a fun story and i'm not just saying that...its worth it.

    What happens to a lawyer when you give them viagra?

    they get taller.
     
  15. Isee

    Isee New Member

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    John, you've made your point. We took your advice and read over the postings. Its clear who the student representative was who told you about the situation.

    It does seem odd about the timing of all this.

    Thanks for the Gyn articles, I will get them to Dr. Johnson when you email me the cover sheet with the article dates. Why don't you offer these to the second years, any of them that are starting off with Ob/Gyn might find this stuff useful man.

    Get back to studying. When are you coming out with the physiology web page?

     
  16. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Good Idea, see if Dr. Johnson can talk the print shop into running off some extras...If its put together tightly its concievable that it would become part of the clinical curriculum, I know Dr. M. has already expressed interest....they all came off the internet FULL TEXT so there shouldn't be a copyright issue, he may have to run it upstairs first though.(Email me privately regarding the biochem/physio/pharm website...its in infancy and needs some artists involvement.)

    I do have a TON of the following magazines for any first or second years that want them:
    Emergency Medicine
    Hospital Practice
    Hospital Medicine
    Postgraduate Medicine
    Consultant
    Patient Care
    Modern Medicine
    These were given to me by my attending last month, so if anyone wants a few of these magazines to read, let me know and I'll see about dropping them off at the school.

    one last thing Isee: remember that Sinn Fein and the IRA are all part of the larger whole.
    dont assume anything regarding anybody, we have enough paranoia in the community as it is. Those just getting into the field dont really have a handle on the political climate in the osteopathic community lets let sleeping dogs lie for now.
     
  17. HugeEuge

    HugeEuge New Member

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    I am really appalled that a colleague of mine would exploit the suffering of this young woman to further his agenda against the College of Osteopathic Medicine. The incidents are unrelated, and the comparison of this young lady's dilemma to those of the prison rotations really seems like a desperate strategy.
    It seems that some of my classmates have forgotten the tradition of the Osteopathic profession to help those in medically underserved areas. Those who are unsatisfied with curricula which further that cause (i.e. rural medicine rotations, urban clinic rotations, inmate care rotations) perhaps should not enter the profession in the first place.
     
  18. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    of course they are related.

    1. the event happened at a NOVA mandatory site

    2. It involved the very type of thing that the students were speaking out against

    3. It was being litagated during the same time frame that the dean made his comments regarding expulsion.

    SAME SCHOOL, SAME CONCEPT...to argue about them not being related makes me wonder if you actually understand any of the issues or if you just are incapable of seeing the obvious.

    As for me doing anything regarding her suffering or taking advantage of it, the only thing i did was tell people to read a newspaper article...how you are able to twist that in your mind into me USING her situation is beyond comprehension...next, your paranoid delusional state will come up with the idea that i am the REPORTER who wrote the story or something. or the JUDGE who states Nova can be held Liable. get a clue, please.
     
  19. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    This moment of ignorance has been brought to you by:

    Shoey, a disgruntled student in terrible need of a little attention.

    Shoey, by my count, there are many more students here who do not agree with your perception of NSU than who agree with it. Why can't you understand that most students do not feel the same way as yourself? Your opinions are valuable, but your means of expressing them are outrageous. Most students feel that NSU is a wonderful place to study osteopathic medicine, why does this anger you?
     
  20. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Rolltide, that is fine that more people disagree with me than agree with me...why should that distress me? why should your lack of experience yet overabundance of expression distress me either? If you think other people take opinion polls and sort out their lifes according to the masses desires, then you deserve the mediocrity you are certain to attain.
    shoey. (ps, hurry up and get a new insult for me, i'm bored with the same old ones)
     
  21. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    besides, you are unable to carry out a conversation without personal insult, insults that YOU began, whose behavior needs to be modifyed...you have been the dishonest lying insulting hypocrite since day one...I am happy for your consistency.
     
  22. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Whoa, Rolltide, you are way off base. In reading all the postings, YOU are the only one who has been demonstrating outrageous behavior. You have called John about every name in the book, including making up a nickname to try to be more insulting. Why dont you grow up? You haven't addressed a single issue on this forum. All you do is attack people in the most vicious way your feeble mind seems capable of deriving. What kind of sick perverted attention seeking behavior is this for a prospective medical student. You arrogantly defend the school you dont attend by insulting the people that do and whose opinions are thus more valid than your own.

    John only brought up this issue because of what the dean did, if it weren't for the dean's actions you wouldn't even know John existed, think about that for a bit. If you read his posts it should be clear that Greg Gulick was probably the student representative that told John about the incident. Greg blasted John but never explained the incident with the dean. He never mentions it.

    Osteopathicman, Crazydoctor, Dragonking, Siurlc and Myself agreed with parts of what John said. You and hugeeuge and possibly Zdoc have disagreed and neither of them are commenting about what the dean did. Quinn said that after talking it over with a medical student it could have been a threat, so he also corroborates the story. Quinn also said he felt the prison rotations should be voluntary.

    You spend your time insulting people without adding anything. If you cant address the issues intelligently why dont you shut up? Please. Would you like us to call you Stupid Jerk from the illiterate state of alabama from now on? SJISA

    As for huge, how can anyone deny the link between the dean's actions and the newspaper article. They may be coincidental but they are definitely related subjects. As John said, they happened at the same school, at the same time, and were about the same thing.

    For you to base arguments on the majority is silly, since you aren't a student here do you not feel a little stupid telling us what our majority of students think?

    perhaps John is right, you are just a follower. Can you say Baaaaaaa for us, SJISA?

     
  23. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    hey, stop using my computer! you know who you are! cant say i disagree with your thoughts, but get your own username and password if i dont see you before you write again. LOL. Shoey.
     
  24. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    SJISA,

    First of all, I was not the one that instigated all of this, John did. He started all of this crap. Three weeks ago he posted a comment that I and many others found offensive and this is how his post started:

    "NOVA in spanish means DONT GO. literally "

    This is not true, and I found it to be offensive and so I responded. For you to imply that I have no reason, no basis, or no right to respond to inflammatory posts such as this is ludicrous. That is how all of this started and has continued because John continues to exagerate the what is going on at NSU. How does someone from an iliterate state like Alabama know this? Because he let us all know this is what he was doing from the start:

    ".there's always going to be an adrian sarcastically exaggerating situations
    (that was kinda the whole point lol)"

    I inderstand that John does not really hate NSU and that he is making his comments in a effort to initiate change at NSU. I just disagree with him that this is the proper way to do so. His posts reflect poorly on NSU and could influence students who are planning to attend next year and this does effect me.

    You mentioned that you did not feel that I could understand the issues at NSU because I am not a current student. I have talked with the dean, about the prison rotation and other issues, have you? I really like the guy and feel that his policies are in the best interest of the school and the students. I also asked Dr. Terry about them, I talked with faculty about them and talked with current students about them. How can you assert that my opinion is less valuable than someone like John, who this issue will not effect? I think I have talked with those who actually know what is going on instead of trying to get people excited and angry like John has admitted to doing.

    BTW..I am from the illiterate state of Florida, I just attend school in the beautiful state of Alabama. I counted quite a few insults in your post as well. I would hope that a well-informed fourth year such as yourself could stick to the issues instead of resorting to my child like behavior. I have asked John for a truce but he refuses to stop his insults on a university that I am excited to have the chance to attend. Until he does, I will continue to respond to comments that I feel are not true or misrepresent the quality of education that is offered at NSU.

    -Joshua
     
  25. crazydoctor

    crazydoctor New Member

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    rolltide,
    Be honest with you, I don't like to post here but I hope you will be a little more open minded to varies issues. Many students here don't want to discuss with the incoming students about their true feeling because we are scare. Or manybe we are all crazy, just like me?!



    ------------------
    "Crazy" is a matter of opinion
     
  26. crazydoctor

    crazydoctor New Member

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    ------------------
    "Crazy" is a matter of opinion
     
  27. John Jadvar

    John Jadvar Junior Member
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    I know you are but what am I.

    I found these NOVA threads to be the most unprofessional and unproductive posts that I have read at SDN.

    You will have to deal with lives of people in a few years. All of you just GROW UP and STOP this nonsense.

     
  28. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    How did I instigate you into your insults?
    You instigated yourself into a continual volley of nontopic related personal attacks, you have yet to say anything of substance.
    its fine you found John's behavior outrageous, but rather than addressing it in a professional manner, you chose and continue to choose to act like a child, the truth is, if you bother to look, YOU are the only person who has acted in this way, any other posts that contained insults were in RESPONSE to your childishness.
    As for speaking to the dean: have you spoken to him regarding censorship? thats the issue here (which you continue to avoid along with your hordes of supporters (last count was about three)
    and do you seriously think that CENSORSHIP doesnt affect everyone? Of course this affects John and myself in that it is a violation of our freedom of expression. Now you probably don't find that important, so long as you get a good income, but some people do.

    you continue to demonstrate the arrogance of ignorance. Ignorance is a lack of experiential knowledge. For you to call anyone ignorant when they have experienced far more than you have speaks volumes about you.

    Attend the school, follow the attendance policy strictly (since you belief so strongly in it) and then have an intelligent conversation about Nova, until then you aren't even an important person in this debate,

    In fact, We've only been using you as a sounding board to relay information to everyone else. You have been the perfect foil through your continual ignorant comments, for us to talk to those people reading this who have a more openminded and intelligent mind. First they hear the uneducated babble of someone who has never been here, then they hear a rational honest discussion based upon real experience.
     
  29. mj

    mj Senior Member
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    Oh come on Adrianshoe. You aren't seriously going to try to convince people on this board that if they haven't "been there and done that" they have nothing relevant to offer a conversation? If that is true, please do not ever try to treat a person that may have a disease or condition that you have never had, because according to that logic, unless you have "been there and done that" you would be "an unimportant person" to the discussion.

    From your post I think you are more logical than that. Stop letting this guy get under your skin.

    mj
     
  30. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    You want issues pal? Why don't you answer this one. How could the prison rotation have ever been intended to be mandatory when there are only ~20 positions available and 180 students in each class. I certainly would not consider such a small portion of the class partcipating in a rotation to be considered mandatory. And dont feed me the crap about how you, John and the rest the non-conformist made the University change by way of threats because the university told me this back in November. This is not a censorship issue. You and John are free to post all of the garbage you like and you will still be students tommorow. But, if a student decides to post inflammatory comments about the university and the dean himself, that student should not expect a glowing dean's letter when it comes time to find a residency postion. Why you ask, because you will be a part of a healthcare team and a representative for the institution you do your residency at. Just because you are a great student, or even a good doctor, doesn't indicate you will be a team player or a decent representative for the institution you train at. Who wants a student who instead of pursuing the proper channels to voice complaints, decides to complain in a public forum?
     
  31. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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  32. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    MJ....you are somewhat correct, but we are taught in depth to learn about all aspects of disease, Rolltide hasn't bothered to try to learn too much about Nova, so your analogy about diseases isn't totally applicable here, MAYBE rolltide should REFER OUT instead of trying to deal with an issue that is beyond him. In theory I agree completely with your posting, in this specific case we are dealing with an person who is blindly defending an indefensible position based on ignorance...Thanks for your insight and allowing me to correct myself.
     
  33. jawurheemd

    jawurheemd xx ToXiC xx
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    at least the m1/m2's had some warning and some say about the prison rotations -- there are some m3's who were assigned to prison rotations unexpectedly without any input from them even when they were assigned elsewhere before these prison rotations came into existence

    it's unfortunate that nova acted in such a manner, but at least there is some monetary compensation and housing is provided

    -James
     
  34. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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