So the latest rumor is that boards are changing to P/F in November of 2011 which is after all of us would have taken part 1. Is this affecting anyone's decision on where to go to school? I mean, this has got to be a good thing for those of us planning on attending schools that have P/F grading.
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New SDN Article: Students Frustrated by Licensing Exam Issues
Not sure if the information's published. The information from the ASDA meeting here said that it's delayed til "Fall of 2011." That means it's graded until at least then. There's still the option of further postponing it til a later date.
The class of 2013 should expect to take Part I for a grade.
The class of 2013 should expect to take Part I for a grade.
Damn that sucks. I was looking forward to finally taking a test where I could just pass and not have to study my butt off.
What's the big deal? Anyone planning on specializing would still have to take another test for that specialty. I'm sure that they would not SOLEY rely on GPA in dental school to determine if you could get into a specialty. That means another test you would likely have to study for. My guess is that they needed that extra time to prepare specialty tests to test those who want to specialize. Frankly, I would rather just use the same test for everyone and get it over with.
And why can't you just "pass" anyways? I mean, anyone who graduates from dental school can practice dentistry, whether they got a 70 on boards or a 100.
I haven't seen any official info but at school we have been told that our boards will be pass fail
As far as I'm aware (and I could be wrong), there is no "specialty test". I haven't heard anything about them creating one either now that the boards are going Pass/Fail.
Yes they will be looking heavily at GPA. They can also look at everything you've accomplished during your 4 years (extra-curricular activities, etc).
Being a student at UCLA (which has pass/ no pass grades), this is a rather important issue. A faculty member who writes questions for the Board exam (and accordingly has a large insight into the process) has passed to us all of the official information from the ADA:
At this point, the plan is still to offer Pass/Fail Boards (part I) starting in 2010. The final vote for this will come in March. A lot of specialty programs are pushing for a delay because they currently have no other great options for evaluating students' abilities.
There is still a very good possibility that the boards will get pushed back, I'll keep you posted when I hear more
At this point, the plan is still to offer Pass/Fail Boards (part I) starting in 2010. The final vote for this will come in March. A lot of specialty programs are pushing for a delay because they currently have no other great options for evaluating students' abilities.
There is still a very good possibility that the boards will get pushed back, I'll keep you posted when I hear more
When I interviewed at Washington, the Dean informed us that they would definitely be postponing it due to the issue of specialty admissions.
Plan on taking the Boards for a grade...
Plan on taking the Boards for a grade...
is it true that some specialty programs ask you to take the GMAT or GRE? I thought i read that somewhere but was unsure....anybody know?
The GRE was an idea many floated if the Boards were P/F.
To the guy above you:
The way admissions for specialties work right now unfairly benefit schools with only P/F grades and no ranking. IE UCLA
Someone at a graded school could get a 92 on the board but be ranked number 15/63 and get looked over, whereas if he had gone to UCLA and gotten a 92 he might get an interview since they cannot judge rank/gpa... Just an observation of mine...
I thought you had to take the GRE if you choose to do a three year MS program like with ortho or endo. (so you get the certificate and the masters)
It's a possible but unlikely scenario. If you can't do well in class of 100 or so, then you're not likely to do well in a pool of 4500.
I heard that the P/F version of the boards WILL be delayed until Fall 2011 directly from the chair of orthodontics at UTDB Houston.
Then again everything we are all posting is largely unreliable...none of us have presented any REAL evidence to validate these claims.
The same chair of orthodontics mentioned that IF the boards were to go to a P/F grading system then he, as he suspected many other program directors would begin to do, would primarily admit students into his program from his own school.
This is really an issue we should be aware of and its also very practical. How would you, as a program director, determine which student was more suited for your program if the only numbers you had were SUBJECTIVE GPA's? He told me directly that he could care less about what an applicant's GPA was...he was mostly concerned with their NBDE I score. Standardized testing is the true objective indicator of academic success.
Then again everything we are all posting is largely unreliable...none of us have presented any REAL evidence to validate these claims.
The same chair of orthodontics mentioned that IF the boards were to go to a P/F grading system then he, as he suspected many other program directors would begin to do, would primarily admit students into his program from his own school.
This is really an issue we should be aware of and its also very practical. How would you, as a program director, determine which student was more suited for your program if the only numbers you had were SUBJECTIVE GPA's? He told me directly that he could care less about what an applicant's GPA was...he was mostly concerned with their NBDE I score. Standardized testing is the true objective indicator of academic success.
Those sound pretty solid to me, thanks Hysteria! I knew I had seen those quotes before in a couple locations but I couldn't find them for the life of me
Goodness-concentrate on getting into school before you worry about boards--but you do have the option of delaying taking your boards until they are pass/fail if you are really worried. The only requirement is that you have to take Part 1 and pass before you take Part 2. We had a guy at my school wait until the end of his third year to take his boards---and yes if residency (mainly ortho some others) comes with a masters you have to take the GRE and so if boards are pass/fail and you want to specialize you will just have to study more for another test---most people are studying boards just to pass anyway so imho...
IT DOESN'T MATTER!
IT DOESN'T MATTER!
this might be a stupid question...but why are they doing this now? after so many years of having a #score?
Some think the boards do not accurately judge a candidates capabilities for any particular specialty, since that is what they are used for but not what they were designed for. So pass fail would mean specialties can't use them anymore.
So will the Boards testing center send only P or F to our schools [assuming it's going to be P/F], or they will still send the grade as well? I mean will there be an internal record of the Board score, or P/F is all the schools get?
well from the limited amount that i've read i get the impression that they don't want the examination being used as criteria for acceptance to specialty programs, they feel it is outside the purpose of the exam...so i would assume that if it went P/F they ould not send the score (because that defeats the purpose of making them P/F)
They should make the Boards pass or fail and create another standardized test that you need to take if you want to specialize. Then specialties can just rank students based on the results of that test.
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oh good so we can study for TWO exams!!!!
I just called up they are sticking with the boards being P/F at the moment. Does anyone have a REAL source that says otherwise? Its possible the information didn't trickle down yet, so I am hopeful that what I heard was the old news and the boards will remain graded.
I called the ADA today and asked. They said P/F for NBDE Part I has been pushed back to Jan 2012. Anyone can go on the ADA webpage and get the 1-800 and call to confirm if they still have doubts. Also some students on the dental link are stating they are getting emails about this change now.
fabulous, i guess my choice to attend a p/f school was the right decision.
the fundamental issue is that the change to p/f would disadvantage students from p/f schools who want to specialize. Now if you only want to be a GP, then either way IMO it shouldn't matter. You either get above 75% of the national average and pass or you don't.I heard this as well, I thought it was a pile of cow manure but I guess there may be some truth to it. Now I really do not care what system they use, as long as it's a fair exam across the board...
All of you make it sound like part 1 going to pass/fail is going to be so much easier. It's still the same test, and it's pretty damn hard. If you ever see a score report they give you your raw score and then your scaled score which is your actual grade. You never know they might still report the raw score, not just the pass/fail.
The numbers are important especially if you want to specialize. When schools interview 28-40 (sometimes drastically less than that candidates for their specialty program) and they get 300-400 applications that number plays a factor whether you like it or not. A lot of program directors I know don't like it either, but they have no other way to compare students evenly. Some schools don't give grades or rank their students.
Also all you guys pushing for pass/fail, keep in mind that graduates sometimes go on into private practice for a couple years and then specialize. So while you might have "passed" that other candidate's "numbered score" might look a hell of a lot better.
The numbers are important especially if you want to specialize. When schools interview 28-40 (sometimes drastically less than that candidates for their specialty program) and they get 300-400 applications that number plays a factor whether you like it or not. A lot of program directors I know don't like it either, but they have no other way to compare students evenly. Some schools don't give grades or rank their students.
Also all you guys pushing for pass/fail, keep in mind that graduates sometimes go on into private practice for a couple years and then specialize. So while you might have "passed" that other candidate's "numbered score" might look a hell of a lot better.