NROTC, HPSP, or both?

[ryebread17]

Hello, my name is Ryan, and I am an admitted freshman for University of California - Berkeley's Fall 2012 Semester. Around September/October last year, I found out that I was accepted for the NROTC Scholarship there for Nuclear Engineering. Originally my plan was to use the NROTC Scholarship, graduate, go to the Navy Postgraduate School or some other institution to receive my masters while on active duty. However, I'm considering a different option: the HPSP Scholarship. I went to CalDay and I became very interested in BioEngineering, which I think would better help me for a career in medicine. Either way, my tuition is covered with my dad CalVet bill. It will cover tuition for public California schools, but it won't cover books, room & board, or give me a stipend. The NROTC Scholarship: I'm sure you all already know its benefits. However, there are a lot of things that I have questions about and would like clarified:

1. Should I use the NROTC Scholarship at all for my Undergrad? If I use it, I'll have to be a part of all unit activities and classes on top of trying to receive a high GPA for medical school, plus my major would be locked in one of the Tier 1s (doesn't include BioEngineering or any common Pre-Med Majors). If I use my dad's CalVet bill, I can major in whatever I feel like while pursuing Pre-Med, although there will be no stipend or book allowances.
2. How do I get the HPSP Scholarship? Are there minimum criteria? Like for the NROTC Scholarship, I needed a minimum SAT/ACT test score, GPA, and show that I'm involved/active in school. Is applying for the HPSP scholarship like that?
3. Are there limited slots for the HPSP Scholarship? How competitive is it?

Thank you in advance for those who help me decide!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[SirGecko]

1. Don't do NROTC. Don't do NROTC. Don't do NROTC. You have tuition covered already and you really don't sound like the kind of person the program is designed for. It is a commissioning program for line officers not a scholarship program for people interested in pursuing other academic pursuits. Plus from a financial standpoint it seems absurd to indenture yourself to a career of uncertain prospects for four years and really only be gaining 4 years of book money (like 500 dollars a year) and stipend (averaged to about 200 dollars a month). If you wanted to be a line officer the answer would be different but from what you have posted NROTC would be a mistake.
2. Yes there are some minimums for the HPSP scholarship but unlike undergrad it is difficult enough to get in to medical school so if you are able to secure a slot and look into the scholarship early enough you shouldn't have too much trouble doing milmed. That said it could change in the next four years but doing NROTC won't make the path easier by any measure.
3. Yes there are limits but that really isn't something you need to worry about right now.

In closing I would like to stress that you should not do NROTC if you already know you want to go straight to medical school. Do NROTC only if you want to be a line officer.

 

[ryebread17]

1. Don't do NROTC. Don't do NROTC. Don't do NROTC. You have tuition covered already and you really don't sound like the kind of person the program is designed for. It is a commissioning program for line officers not a scholarship program for people interested in pursuing other academic pursuits. Plus from a financial standpoint it seems absurd to indenture yourself to a career of uncertain prospects for four years and really only be gaining 4 years of book money (like 500 dollars a year) and stipend (averaged to about 200 dollars a month). If you wanted to be a line officer the answer would be different but from what you have posted NROTC would be a mistake.
2. Yes there are some minimums for the HPSP scholarship but unlike undergrad it is difficult enough to get in to medical school so if you are able to secure a slot and look into the scholarship early enough you shouldn't have too much trouble doing milmed. That said it could change in the next four years but doing NROTC won't make the path easier by any measure.
3. Yes there are limits but that really isn't something you need to worry about right now.

In closing I would like to stress that you should not do NROTC if you already know you want to go straight to medical school. Do NROTC only if you want to be a line officer.

Thank you very much for your answer! I do know I want to be a naval officer at some point in my life though, not sure if i want to stay until I can get retirement benefits (because I know they are changing and they won't be the same as they were for my dad)...

 

[Gastrapathy]

Don't be an engineer either. Getting the requisite GPA for allopathic med school will not be easy at UCB. Getting the GPA through an engineering program is a brutal plan. Decide if you are premed or a future nuke.

 

[SirGecko]

Don't be an engineer either. Getting the requisite GPA for allopathic med school will not be easy at UCB. Getting the GPA through an engineering program is a brutal plan. Decide if you are premed or a future nuke.

Oh yeah that too. Getting the GPA need for med school is going to be tough as an engineer.

Just for context I did BME and NROTC so I know what I am talking about. It really is not the way to go (certainly not the path of least resistance), especially since you have school paid for already.

 

[ryebread17]

Yeah, I heard it was tough being an engineering major and going pre-med. I heard that the people reviewing your medical school application also take that into account, the difficulty of the college you're in and the major you pursued. Are there any suggested majors that I should switch into for pre-med? I know people can major in English/Psychology/History or anything else and still be Pre-Med, just as long as they fulfill the pre-requisites.

 

[Perrotfish]

Yeah, I heard it was tough being an engineering major and going pre-med. I heard that the people reviewing your medical school application also take that into account, the difficulty of the college you're in and the major you pursued. Are there any suggested majors that I should switch into for pre-med? I know people can major in English/Psychology/History or anything else and still be Pre-Med, just as long as they fulfill the pre-requisites.

The problem is that ADCOM's don't really take your major into account, at least not nearly as much as they would need to to compensate for the hit your GPA takes. To them a number is a number, and they want their 3.6 regardless of whether you're majoring in basket weaving or aerospace engineering. For that matter they also don't take your course load or personal situation into account, so if you get a 3.6 taking 12 credits and living on Dad's credit card they will look at it pretty much the same as if you got the same GPA taking 18 credits and working two jobs, which goes a long way towards explaining why medical school draws so much more from the top income brackets than other kinds of graduate school.

So the advice for getting into med school would be to take a really easy major, never work while you're taking classes most people who start as premeds don't finish as medical students, and the majors that maximize your GPA are not the ones that make you employable. Engineers who worked are employable. Communications majors who didn't aren't. So you're going to need to figure out what your tolerance is for risk and how sure you are that you want to do medicine before definitely deciding on a major.

My advice:

1) Start slow. Adjusting to college should be looked at as a 5 credit class. For your first semester take 12 credits and no more than two science classes so that you can maintain your grades and still try out a different clubs, hobbies, friends, and identities while keeping that all important 3.6.

2) Intern: The best way to improve your potential post-college income without risking your GPA and potential medical school application is to build your resume by working. Get an Internship your first summer, and at least one summer after that. These stints will also look good on your medical school app.

3) Don't call yourself premed yet. You shouldn't be decided on a career this early. You don't know you like the classes and you haven't watched a lot of physicians work. You might discover that you actually do prefer being a line officer. Or an engineer. Keep your grades up and medicine will be there if you want it, but don't assume that you do want it at the age of 18.

 

[ryebread17]

Thank you, I appreciate your advice. So you wouldn't suggest me switching majors yet from Nuclear Engineering to something else? And I would do 12-14 units my first semester, but my recommended course layout for Nuclear Engineering and even BioEngineering recommend 15-17 units for my first semester. I think I can take less units, but I'm just worried about not fulfilling everything I need in 4 years.

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/ne-major.pdf
http://bioeng.berkeley.edu/undergrad/program/bioemajor

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Why not mechanical engineering or chemical engineering instead? I don't know what the market is for a B.S. in nuclear engineering, assuming you actually want to do that (seems like you would be better off as a Physics major instead.) It seems like a pretty narrow focus for undergrad. The only people I have heard of in that field needed a Ph.D. anyway to work in the nuclear power industry. For the Navy, I am sure they will take you with ME or CE or EE.

I have several colleagues who were engineers as undergrads at competitive schools (Carnegie-Mellon, e.g.) I am sure it was tougher than English, but they did fine. More important is that you like your major.

 

[Perrotfish]

Thank you, I appreciate your advice. So you wouldn't suggest me switching majors yet from Nuclear Engineering to something else? And I would do 12-14 units my first semester, but my recommended course layout for Nuclear Engineering and even BioEngineering recommend 15-17 units for my first semester. I think I can take less units, but I'm just worried about not fulfilling everything I need in 4 years.

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/ne-major.pdf
http://bioeng.berkeley.edu/undergrad/program/bioemajor

If you're planning to do engineering don't worry about not graduating in 4 years, the 5 year plan is unfortunately pretty standard. Actually the average for engineering majors at my school was actually over 5 years. The classes are much harder, so you normally need to spend more hours per class studying to keep your grades up. Check the average time for engineers to graduate at your school, I bet its way over 4 years. Don't worry, though, the upside of engineering is that rather than unpaid Internships the Internship and Co-Op opportunities normally pay several times minimum wage and add tens of thousands of dollars to your starting pay out of college, so as long as you fill in the gaps with work you'll be financially better off than the liberal arts majors who finished in 4 years.

If you REALLY want to graduate in 4 years, without taking any courses over any summer, and transfering in no AP credit, trying knocking out a couple of humanities the summer before you start. Go abroad and study at a language school and earn two foreign language credits. Or just take an English class at your local community college. Maybe they'll even give you credit for an EMT-B class. That would give you the opportunity to get some basic medical experience and get you ahead of the graduation requirements. You first semester, though, take the minimum number of credits to be considered a full time student.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Why not mechanical engineering or chemical engineering instead? I don't know what the market is for a B.S. in nuclear engineering, assuming you actually want to do that (seems like you would be better off as a Physics major instead.) It seems like a pretty narrow focus for undergrad. The only people I have heard of in that field needed a Ph.D. anyway to work in the nuclear power industry. For the Navy, I am sure they will take you with ME or CE or EE.

I have several colleagues who were engineers as undergrads at competitive schools (Carnegie-Mellon, e.g.) I am sure it was tougher than English, but they did fine. More important is that you like your major.

Lots of powerplant types without phds. OP, you just need to decide before you start. Not easy or fair but you can blow your shot at med school with one bad semester.

 

[ryebread17]

Why not mechanical engineering or chemical engineering instead? I don't know what the market is for a B.S. in nuclear engineering, assuming you actually want to do that (seems like you would be better off as a Physics major instead.) It seems like a pretty narrow focus for undergrad. The only people I have heard of in that field needed a Ph.D. anyway to work in the nuclear power industry. For the Navy, I am sure they will take you with ME or CE or EE.

I have several colleagues who were engineers as undergrads at competitive schools (Carnegie-Mellon, e.g.) I am sure it was tougher than English, but they did fine. More important is that you like your major.

If you're planning to do engineering don't worry about not graduating in 4 years, the 5 year plan is unfortunately pretty standard. Actually the average for engineering majors at my school was actually over 5 years. The classes are much harder, so you normally need to spend more hours per class studying to keep your grades up. Check the average time for engineers to graduate at your school, I bet its way over 4 years. Don't worry, though, the upside of engineering is that rather than unpaid Internships the Internship and Co-Op opportunities normally pay several times minimum wage and add tens of thousands of dollars to your starting pay out of college, so as long as you fill in the gaps with work you'll be financially better off than the liberal arts majors who finished in 4 years.

If you REALLY want to graduate in 4 years, without taking any courses over any summer, and transfering in no AP credit, trying knocking out a couple of humanities the summer before you start. Go abroad and study at a language school and earn two foreign language credits. Or just take an English class at your local community college. Maybe they'll even give you credit for an EMT-B class. That would give you the opportunity to get some basic medical experience and get you ahead of the graduation requirements. You first semester, though, take the minimum number of credits to be considered a full time student.

I plan on taking summer courses if necessary. I have some AP credits that should be of use, same as IB. I'm thinking I should just take 13-15/17 units for my first semester and just try to find my place. I might still do NROTC, maybe just for the first semester, just so I can see if it's right for me or if I can still pull out...

As for Chemical Engineering, it's in a separate college at UC Berkeley, the College of Chemistry, rather than the College of Engineering where I got accepted. Available majors in this college are

• Bioengineering
• Civil Engineering
• Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (EECS)
• Energy Engineering
• Engineering Math and Statistics
• Engineering Physics
• Environmental Engineering Science
• Industrial Engineering and Operations Research (IEOR)
• Materials Science and Engineering
• Mechanical Engineering
• Nuclear Engineering

I'm not sure if I'm forced to pick a major right now, but for now I will at least take the basic maths and sciences until I'm positive what I want to do. I heard switching from the College of Engineering to College of Letters & Sciences is not that hard, not sure about College of Chemistry...

 

[Shah Boy]

Hello, my name is Ryan, and I am an admitted freshman for University of California - Berkeley's Fall 2012 Semester. Around September/October last year, I found out that I was accepted for the NROTC Scholarship there for Nuclear Engineering. Originally my plan was to use the NROTC Scholarship, graduate, go to the Navy Postgraduate School or some other institution to receive my masters while on active duty. However, I'm considering a different option: the HPSP Scholarship. I went to CalDay and I became very interested in BioEngineering, which I think would better help me for a career in medicine. Either way, my tuition is covered with my dad CalVet bill. It will cover tuition for public California schools, but it won't cover books, room & board, or give me a stipend. The NROTC Scholarship: I'm sure you all already know its benefits. However, there are a lot of things that I have questions about and would like clarified:

1. Should I use the NROTC Scholarship at all for my Undergrad? If I use it, I'll have to be a part of all unit activities and classes on top of trying to receive a high GPA for medical school, plus my major would be locked in one of the Tier 1s (doesn't include BioEngineering or any common Pre-Med Majors). If I use my dad's CalVet bill, I can major in whatever I feel like while pursuing Pre-Med, although there will be no stipend or book allowances.
2. How do I get the HPSP Scholarship? Are there minimum criteria? Like for the NROTC Scholarship, I needed a minimum SAT/ACT test score, GPA, and show that I'm involved/active in school. Is applying for the HPSP scholarship like that?
3. Are there limited slots for the HPSP Scholarship? How competitive is it?

Thank you in advance for those who help me decide!

Hey, I am a junior in NROTC and applying to med school this cycle. This is definitely not an easy route, but I would say 100% don't do it. You do have to submit another application to NSTC in July to ask for the 1970 designator (consists of letter of rec, statement of why you want to be a medical officer, transcript, copy of AMCAS application, PNS endorsement). So that makes 3 applications: AMCAS, NSTC, and HPSP, a lot of extra work! But I have really loved my time in ROTC and wouldn't take it back for anything. Your major may give you issues, I'm a bio major, so I don't have any input on that. Remember that you can drop ROTC for free up through the beginning of sophomore year. I have been very involved in ROTC all three years so far, and have achieved outstanding grades, good MCAT, lots of outside extracurriculars, etc. Plus, I believe that ROTC makes you a very unique applicant (at least that what I hope adcoms will think).

As far as HPSP goes, meet with a medical officer recruiter, most of the requirements are less that what you would need for med school. You need to submit transcripts, resume, personal statement of why you want to be a Medical Officer, you have to do an interview with a medical officer O-4 or higher. There are limited spots but it varies from year to year (needs of the Navy).

Short story: If you really want to do ROTC, do it. If you only want ROTC for the scholarship, don't do it

 

[DrMetal]

Hello, my name is Ryan, and I am an admitted freshman for University of California - Berkeley's Fall 2012 Semester.

A superb choice, I'm class of '00, was a chemistry major in the College of Chemistry. Berkeley is a hard school, lots of premeds, lots of hard competition. As such, you don't want to overload yourself with too much (I did one semester and got reamed in my GPA).

If you're sure about going to medical school, you might wanna avoid an engineering degree (as commented above), because you'll have to take many more advanced math/science classes, that aren't really pertinent to medicine. I don't mean to discourage you, do it if you really want to, but it'll be significantly harder to get a higher GPA (and have extra time to study for the MCAT, do some extracurriculars, have some fun, go to Football, etc).

Also, if you're genuinely interested in serving in the Navy as a nuclear officer (surface warfare or subs), you could go that route. An engineering degree would serve you great if you wanted to be a line officer first (for 4-5 years), then go to medical school.. . .just some food for thought.