Number 1 Motivation Behind Pursuing Medicine

[Law2Doc]

Sure, I will do a little homework for you.
Firstly, a person can work in any (not every, but many) companies for long enough and be making way more than the average physician, and this person may not have even gone to college, so there was very little time & expense to get to that point.
Secondly, if a person has any type of talent in the entertainment field, or sports, we all know the kind of money these people make, from a very early age, and again, a college degree is not even required much of the time.
Example, the starting salary for a major US Orchestra is around $100k. Usually getting into an orchestra requires a certain amount of training, say, 4 years of undergrad, but if a person has enough talent, not even that.

- computer programmer
- computer programmer (consultant) - they are making $120+ a year
- PA can potentially make more then a general physician simply because there is less time/expense in getting there. Don't laugh - research it. And by that I mean more than a google search.
- Having a landscaping business - I was quoted $1800 just to cut down 2 trees and trim 2 others
- Having a construction business
- Most trades like plumbing, electrician, etc.
- Law (already discussed)

Look, the point is if a person is under some illusion that they are going to make a ton of money and that is their motivation for becoming a doctor, they are going to be sorely disappointed when they get there. My suggestion still is that if that is the case for someone, they consider that there are far easier ways to accomplish the goal of making a ton of money - that was it.

I second the plumber option -- having recently dealt with one, I have to say they charge at least as much, if not more, per hour than many attorneys. You might also add to your list luxury car mechanics and real estate developers.

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[OwnageMobile]

Sure, I will do a little homework for you.
Firstly, a person can work in any (not every, but many) companies for long enough and be making way more than the average physician, and this person may not have even gone to college, so there was very little time & expense to get to that point.
Secondly, if a person has any type of talent in the entertainment field, or sports, we all know the kind of money these people make, from a very early age, and again, a college degree is not even required much of the time.
Example, the starting salary for a major US Orchestra is around $100k. Usually getting into an orchestra requires a certain amount of training, say, 4 years of undergrad, but if a person has enough talent, not even that.

- computer programmer
- computer programmer (consultant) - they are making $120+ a year
- PA can potentially make more then a general physician simply because there is less time/expense in getting there. Don't laugh - research it. And by that I mean more than a google search.
- Having a landscaping business - I was quoted $1800 just to cut down 2 trees and trim 2 others
- Having a construction business
- Most trades like plumbing, electrician, etc.
- Law (already discussed)

Look, the point is if a person is under some illusion that they are going to make a ton of money and that is their motivation for becoming a doctor, they are going to be sorely disappointed when they get there. My suggestion still is that if that is the case for someone, they consider that there are far easier ways to accomplish the goal of making a ton of money - that was it.

hmmm, if you are trying to call the salaries/earning potentials of these vocations on your list, similar to a doctor's, I have a qualm or two.

Computer programming? In my experience you will be lucky to make over 40k when you start. You think plumbers, electricians, etc... make comparable wealth?

Doctors are always in demand, and are highly skilled. They will always make their "fair share" of dough. Their salaries will always be competitive.

 

[Law2Doc]

hmmm, if you are trying to call the salaries/earning potentials of these vocations on your list, similar to a doctor's, I have a qualm or two.

Computer programming? In my experience you will be lucky to make over 40k when you start. You think plumbers, electricians, etc... make comparable wealth?

Doctors are always in demand, and are highly skilled. They will always make their "fair share" of dough. Their salaries will always be competitive.

No you are missing the point. You don't need to receive a comparable salary to do better if you start earning 7-10 years earlier, don't assume $100k+ in debt, and invest in a steady return investment. Thus a plumber who owns his own business and pulls in a decent salary right out of high school can often certainly net more over a lifetime than the average doc. Sounds wrong, I know. But you can do the math.

 

[DD214_DOC]

No you are missing the point. You don't need to receive a comparable salary to do better if you start earning 7-10 years earlier, don't assume $100k+ in debt, and invest in a steady return investment. Thus a plumber who owns his own business and pulls in a decent salary right out of high school can often certainly net more over a lifetime than the average doc. Sounds wrong, I know. But you can do the math.

Ever tried? It doesn't work that way. You don't open a business and magically bring home $50,000 that same year. You also have to have an income before you can get any financing to startup a business. Even the SBA won't finance just a business plan.

Also, it can take a sole proprietor years upon years to grow his business large enough to make his TAKE HOME $50,000.

I've worked in these vocational fields, so I have a pretty good idea what goes on.

Anyone who thinks a plumber makes more than a doctor over his lifetime is out of touch with reality.

Your cumulative wealth also doesn't matter as much as your buying power. Guy A who makes $1,000,000 over the course of 50 years cannot buy as much as Guy B who makes $1,000,000 over the course of 10.

It's a crude example that does not consider pay increases, but when you finance stuff, you're essentially financing your personal cash flow against outstanding liabilities (debt to income). Ergo, a $100,000 income can buy a hell of alot more than a $20,000 one.

To be honest, though, the best money is in adult entertainment. Yes, I was in this industry for awhile (not as a performer!) and the money is crazy. I helped a friend get started back in 2002 and he already makes more than any primary care doc ($165,000 last year). Do that if you want easy money.

 

[Law2Doc]

Ever tried? It doesn't work that way. You don't open a business and magically bring home $50,000 a year. It can take a sole proprietor years upon years to grow his business large enough to make his TAKE HOME $50,000.

I've worked in these vocational fields, so I have a pretty good idea what goes on.

Anyone who thinks a plumber makes more than a doctor over his lifetime is out of touch with reality.

FYI yes I've run my own business. And as an attorney I've done work for a number of mom & pop plumbing businesses which certainly generate more income than I expect to see as a physician. Not saying it isn't hard. Just saying it has certainly been done.

 

[Law2Doc]

Ever tried? It doesn't work that way. You don't open a business and magically bring home $50,000 that same year. It can take a sole proprietor years upon years to grow his business large enough to make his TAKE HOME $50,000.

I've worked in these vocational fields, so I have a pretty good idea what goes on.

Anyone who thinks a plumber makes more than a doctor over his lifetime is out of touch with reality.

Your cumulative wealth also doesn't matter as much as your buying power. Guy A who makes $1,000,000 over the course of 50 years cannot buy as much as Guy B who makes $1,000,000 over the course of 10.

It's a crude example that does not consider pay increases, but when you finance stuff, you're essentially financing your personal cash flow against outstanding liabilities (debt to income). Ergo, a $100,000 income can buy a hell of alot more than a $20,000 one.

I don't follow your cumulative wealth vs buying power argument. Someone who starts investing money in year one will have more money in year 10 then someone who starts earning in year 10. Thus the first guy has more buying power. Money is fungible and can be made to grow over time.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I don't follow your cumulative wealth vs buying power argument. Someone who starts investing money in year one will have more money in year 10 then someone who starts earning in year 10. Thus the first guy has more buying power. Money is fungible and can be made to grow over time.

A) Not if the income difference is substantial enough. It depends upon how much the lower-income person invests. Someone with a low income cannot feasibly afford to invest a lot of money, probably not of a sufficient amount to overcome the future income/investments of a physician.

B) Most people making $30k-$40k probably do not invest a whole lot of money.

 

[DD214_DOC]

FYI yes I've run my own business. And as an attorney I've done work for a number of mom & pop plumbing businesses which certainly generate more income than I expect to see as a physician

Income or profit?

 

[Law2Doc]

Income or profit?

Both. (actually your distinction should have been revenue versus profit -- the term income is usually a net - or at least thats how I've been using it).

 

[Law2Doc]

A) Not if the income difference is substantial enough. It depends upon how much the lower-income person invests. Someone with a low income cannot feasibly afford to invest a lot of money, probably not of a sufficient amount to overcome the future income/investments of a physician.

B) Most people making $30k-$40k probably do not invest a whole lot of money.

I don't think we were talking about people earning $30-40k. At least I wasn't. The discussion was about people earning decent money. I agree with you that if someone is earning less than 6 digits, an MD will ultimately catch up. Another poster raised plumber/electrician, and I certainly know a number who earn a ton. Not all do. But lots of professions (including some blue collar ones) provide opportunities for folks to get to this level significantly early enough that an MD wouldn't catch up.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I don't think we were talking about people earning $30-40k. At least I wasn't. The discussion was about people earning decent money. I agree with you that if someone is earning less than 6 digits, an MD will ultimately catch up. Another poster raised plumber/electrician, and I certainly know a number who earn a ton. Not all do. But lots of professions (including some blue collar ones) provide opportunities for folks to get to this level significantly early enough that an MD wouldn't catch up.

Yeah it happens, just like my porn example. My first week in "the biz" I made $500. I was up to $4000 a mo before I got out of college. As I said, my friend who kept going when I was on a hiatus is now making six-figures. Had I stayed in, I would be up there with him -- no primary care doc would ever catch up.

However, your example isn't the norm, which I believe it what most refer to.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yeah it happens, just like my porn example. My first week in "the biz" I made $500. I was up to $4000 a mo before I got out of college. As I said, my friend who kept going when I was on a hiatus is now making six-figures. Had I stayed in, I would be up there with him -- no primary care doc would ever catch up.

However, your example isn't the norm, which I believe it what most refer to.

Fair enough. But the point has been made that if one is going into medicine for the money, he/she is missing the boat.

 

[humuhumu]

Fair enough. But the point has been made that if one is going into medicine for the money, he/she is missing the boat.

I would say if one is going into medicine ONLY for the money....

If you're going into medicine because medicine turns you on AND you want to make a good living (relatively high, steady income), then medicine is a good choice.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Fair enough. But the point has been made that if one is going into medicine for the money, he/she is missing the boat.

Yes, that is the point, thanks for the reminder and useful perspectives.
I think they are more effective than mine.
I'm just trying to say that a lot of younger people go into medicine not really understanding that the money is not what they think it is going to be. And not to just brush those comments aside like they won't apply to you. Find out before you make a mistake - that is, IF you are chasing wealth. If not, then it doesn't matter to you anyway!

 

[Law2Doc]

Yes, that is the point, thanks for the reminder and useful perspectives.
I think they are more effective than mine.
I'm just trying to say that a lot of younger people go into medicine not really understanding that the money is not what they think it is going to be. And not to just brush those comments aside like they won't apply to you. Find out before you make a mistake - that is, IF you are chasing wealth. If not, then it doesn't matter to you anyway!

I already know I'm taking a pay cut to go this route. You are preaching to the converted.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I already know I'm taking a pay cut to go this route. You are preaching to the converted.

Yup - I can tell! By the way, why are so many lawyers miserable with their choice to become lawyers? Just curious to hear an insider's point of view.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yup - I can tell! By the way, why are so many lawyers miserable with their choice to become lawyers? Just curious to hear an insider's point of view.

Lots of lawyers I know are actually happy with their lot. Some of the big firm types suffer burn out though.

 

[OwnageMobile]

No you are missing the point. You don't need to receive a comparable salary to do better if you start earning 7-10 years earlier, don't assume $100k+ in debt, and invest in a steady return investment. Thus a plumber who owns his own business and pulls in a decent salary right out of high school can often certainly net more over a lifetime than the average doc. Sounds wrong, I know. But you can do the math.

Much easier said than done bro. Sure you can become rich if you have luck and smarts on your side, but few plumbers live like doctors do, period. As JDK pointed out, you can make hella $$$ doing almost anything-- but to say that a 7-10 year jumpstart will make you as wealthy as a doctor is a bit out there. If you are only talking about "netting more over a lifetime," as previous posters stated, that doesn't correlate so well with wealth.

Sure, I think anyone who believes that money will solve all their problems is missing the boat. But people who thing doctors live like plumbers do, and that plumbers live like doctors do, are missing the boat as well.

 

[Law2Doc]

Much easier said than done bro. Sure you can become rich if you have luck and smarts on your side, but few plumbers live like doctors do, period. As JDK pointed out, you can make hella $$$ doing almost anything-- but to say that a 7-10 year jumpstart will make you as wealthy as a doctor is a bit out there. If you are only talking about "netting more over a lifetime," as previous posters stated, that doesn't correlate so well with wealth.

Sure, I think anyone who believes that money will solve all their problems is missing the boat. But people who thing doctors live like plumbers do, and that plumbers live like doctors do, are missing the boat as well.

Again, I happen to know some plumbers who live better than most doctors. But I concede that they are not the average. We have already addressed in the discussion about lawyers above that when you extrapolate into other professions, you really need to take into account that you are assuming comparable "smarts", i.e. that we are talking about an individual who has a choice of med school or not, not the average. But yes, a lifetime of good income invested wisely does in fact correlate with wealth better than a high salary started later.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Sure, I think anyone who believes that money will solve all their problems is missing the boat. But people who thing doctors live like plumbers do, and that plumbers live like doctors do, are missing the boat as well.

Okay, I grew up in one of the country's wealthiest communities. Sure, there were (and are) a number of physicians in the community, but there were far more CEO's, CFO's, plumbers (yes), lawyers, psychologists, entertainers, chemists, entrepreneurs, small business owners, you name it.
My dad left high school at 15 and worked as an auto mechanic from that point on b/c his father died & my dad needed to support his mom & 3 siblings. Okay? That is all he had to keep doing to be living as well off as those doctors, lawyers, etc., etc....

BTW, auto makers are currently taking recent college graduates through a short technician training program and they start out with salaries in the 6 figures.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I don't think we were talking about people earning $30-40k. At least I wasn't. The discussion was about people earning decent money. I agree with you that if someone is earning less than 6 digits, an MD will ultimately catch up. Another poster raised plumber/electrician, and I certainly know a number who earn a ton. Not all do. But lots of professions (including some blue collar ones) provide opportunities for folks to get to this level significantly early enough that an MD wouldn't catch up.

And I just want to add 2 more to the list: beekeepers & violin makers. Did we mention acupunturists & chiropractors? No, not all of them. But I know many whose schedules are overfull, they don't take insurance and they charge a small fortune for a visit. I like the beekeepers & violin makers better though - sounds like more fun.

 

[Skeptrix]

the lifestyle.. and security, financially.

 

[Shredder]

intellectual reasons actually. im really interested in genetics, but i dont want to do a phd or a masters. no benchwork or grants. after intellectual reasons, job security. its nice knowing youre pretty safe from booms/busts and employer/consumer whims. a doc never has to run around knocking on doors with a resume.

 

[eccles1214]

Now this is not a public poll so please answer honestly. I'm interested in seeing when the spectre of openly admitting less than altruistic reasons for pursuing medicine is removed, how many of us are actually openly pursuing a paycheck or a lifestyle.

frankly, based on two decades of volunteer work with premeds (i ran 3 public health clinics, directly supervised premeds on a daily basis, wrote hundreds of letters of recommendation), i'd say that money, prestige, and "my parents want me to be a doctor" rank significantly higher than this poll shows. many premeds are wary of revealing their true intentions, lest they appear less than altruistic to their colleagues, their professors who will write them lettes of recommendation, the doctors they are shadowing, and ultimately to the admission committees of medical schools. and med schools know this.

yes, there are genuinely altruistic premeds, but there are fewer of them than what statistics show.

i wonder how many premeds would be pursuing medicine if it payed a pittance, had moderate or little prestige, and little other social and monetary benefits, but, if these things were true, then their parents would not be pushing them to be a doctor.

i decided to try to be a doctor because i was tired of seeing all the homeless and working poor lined up outside my clinic, and wondering why there aren't more doctors working with the truly needy.

 

[QuikClot]

Enough of the "I know rich plumbers" arguments. You'd think a bunch of pre-meds would know better than to use anecdotal evidence when discussing a bell-curve-type distribution. Yes, there are rich plumbers, and auto mechanics, and accountants. If you think it's easy to hop into auto repair, say, and make six figures, I suggest you try it.

Meanwhile, the only reasonable way to argue this point is with real salary data, meaning medians and averages (opportunity costs and tuition are also part of the picture). And this data shows that physicians get a sweet deal.

According to salary.com, a master plumber earns a median base salary of $47,959. And for you trust fund babies out there, just because it is a blue-collar job does not mean you will be doing it with six months of training. Becoming a senior plumber takes about as long as becoming an attending physician -- and your mistakes are only marginally less expensive and a lot harder to conceal.

An "Automotive Mechanic III" (high school grad., at least four years experience, probably multiple certifications) working in the United States earns a median base salary of $47,892.

An attorney with 5-8 years of experience earns a median base of $139,756.

Real Estate Manager with at least 5 years' experience: $88,728.

Physicians(median fr. salary.com):

Family practice -- $146,936

EM -- $199,908

Peds -- $139,940

General Surgey -- $245,002

Geriatrics -- $149,186

Internal Medicine -- $146,619

etc.

I think it's a pretty stunning deal, myself, even though money is not my primary reason for wanting to do it. But if we want to argue the point, let's argue from numbers rather than from anecdote.

 

[Shredder]

Enough of the "I know rich plumbers" arguments. You'd think a bunch of pre-meds would know better than to use anecdotal evidence when discussing a bell-curve-type distribution. Yes, there are rich plumbers, and auto mechanics, and accountants. If you think it's easy to hop into auto repair, say, and make six figures, I suggest you try it.

Meanwhile, the only reasonable way to argue this point is with real salary data, meaning medians and averages (opportunity costs and tuition are also part of the picture). And this data shows that physicians get a sweet deal.

According to salary.com, a master plumber earns a median base salary of $47,959. And for you trust fund babies out there, just because it is a blue-collar job does not mean you will be doing it with six months of training. Becoming a senior plumber takes about as long as becoming an attending physician -- and your mistakes are only marginally less expensive and a lot harder to conceal.

An "Automotive Mechanic III" (high school grad., at least four years experience, probably multiple certifications) working in the United States earns a median base salary of $47,892.

An attorney with 5-8 years of experience earns a median base of $139,756.

Real Estate Manager with at least 5 years' experience: $88,728.

Physicians(median fr. salary.com):

Family practice -- $146,936

EM -- $199,908

Peds -- $139,940

General Surgey -- $245,002

Geriatrics -- $149,186

Internal Medicine -- $146,619

etc.

I think it's a pretty stunning deal, myself, even though money is not my primary reason for wanting to do it. But if we want to argue the point, let's argue from numbers rather than from anecdote.

a good post

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Becoming a Marine Officer was a challenge, now I'm ready to move on to the next mountain. I actually sat around as I am nearing on my End of Active Service and thought to myself, "What would be the most challenging thing that I could do after I get out?" I have a weak background in science and utterly detest mathematics, so trying to get into a post-bacc and going to med-school came naturally to me.

 

[ragda26]

dont forget, physicians arent being compensated as fast as their costs are rising. so if you want money, go to Wall Street and not medicine.

 

[humuhumu]

dont forget, physicians arent being compensated as fast as their costs are rising. so if you want money, go to Wall Street and not medicine.

Or go into medicine and invest your earnings in Wall Street.

 

[DrBowtie]

Or go into medicine and invest your earnings in Wall Street.

Indeed.

 

[Law2Doc]

Enough of the "I know rich plumbers" arguments. You'd think a bunch of pre-meds would know better than to use anecdotal evidence when discussing a bell-curve-type distribution. Yes, there are rich plumbers, and auto mechanics, and accountants. If you think it's easy to hop into auto repair, say, and make six figures, I suggest you try it.

Meanwhile, the only reasonable way to argue this point is with real salary data, meaning medians and averages (opportunity costs and tuition are also part of the picture). And this data shows that physicians get a sweet deal.

An attorney with 5-8 years of experience earns a median base of $139,756.

Physicians(median fr. salary.com):

Family practice -- $146,936

EM -- $199,908

Peds -- $139,940

General Surgey -- $245,002

Geriatrics -- $149,186

Internal Medicine -- $146,619

etc.

I think it's a pretty stunning deal, myself, even though money is not my primary reason for wanting to do it. But if we want to argue the point, let's argue from numbers rather than from anecdote.

While your averages for the medical profession look accurate, I continue to dispute the notion that you can use straight averages to compare across professions -- someone who got A's in college such that he could get into med school will simply not end up at the average law school (where the average matriculant GPA is far lower). This point was referenced in passing in the Atul Gawande article in the New Yorker.
Thus if you really want to compare what someone in medicine would make as compared to what THAT SAME PERSON might make in another profession, you need a comparably weighted average, such that you must compare med schools graduates with something like the top quarter of the law schools' graduates, not the average lawyer. Someone who sneaked in at a low end law school and got barely passing grades is going to pull the average down a ton when he takes his $20k/year legal aid job, and that is really not what we are talking about.
So in fact, the attorney with the numbers to get into med school hardly only makes $139,756 five years out of law school. Folks who graduate college with high grades and get into top quarter law schools will START at a figure close to that, and will be making significantly higher 5 years out (and have a lot less debt to boot). But otherwise, I agree with you -- medicine types do fine.

 

[QuikClot]

While your averages for the medical profession look accurate, I continue to dispute the notion that you can use straight averages to compare across professions -- someone who got A's in college such that he could get into med school will simply not end up at the average law school (where the average matriculant GPA is far lower). This point was referenced in passing in the Atul Gawande article in the New Yorker.
Thus if you really want to compare what someone in medicine would make as compared to what THAT SAME PERSON might make in another profession, you need a comparably weighted average, such that you must compare med schools graduates with something like the top quarter of the law schools' graduates, not the average lawyer. Someone who sneaked in at a low end law school and got barely passing grades is going to pull the average down a ton when he takes his $20k/year legal aid job, and that is really not what we are talking about.
So in fact, the attorney with the numbers to get into med school hardly only makes $139,756 five years out of law school. Folks who graduate college with high grades and get into top quarter law schools will START at a figure close to that, and will be making significantly higher 5 years out (and have a lot less debt to boot). But otherwise, I agree with you -- medicine types do fine.

Good cavet. Ideally we would compare what equally talented people would make in different fields.

 

[goldfish85]

i agree with rsfarell that we should only argue with the #'s like averages...

and saying something similar to "oh well a premed w/ a high gpa would do well above avg in law" and "i know plenty of plumbers making..." Or anything relating to personal experience is invalid evidence.

i could just as easily argue that a large percentage of physicians are NOT pursing money or trying to make more hence the avg. of the physicians salary could easily be MUCH MUCH higher. the follow is some logic which has NO evidence but may as well be true:

1. Many physicians lived in poverty during ug, med school, and had LOW salaries during residency with a high dept. so once they began earning 120k/yr, it seemed like a TON and hence they stayed pretty satisfied with owning a decent home, and a nice bmw with that salary. this satisfaction with their salary prevented them from pursing a larger salary, or starting their own business, or investing or whatever too perhaps.

2. many physician may feel like they are helping others and have enough to themselves. i once knew a doc that wanted to volunteer in a clinic. free time = loss in money. he wanted to do a ton of pro bono, etc. so in short, many physicians many truely not care about money almost at all and hence take a lower salary since they dont care. ie some may serve poor areas and earn less + volunteer. im sure there is a percentage of docs that do this, this drives the avg lower

3. some docs divorce, no kids, or just no one since the life of residency, busy hours, med school or whatever keeps them busy and hence destroys to some degree their social life. so the lower salary for one individual is actually a lot to them. that same salary may not be much to a physician with a huge family. but im not sure that physicians statistically have smaller families in comparison to ohters.

4. on these salary websites, i HIGHLY doubt that they have most physicians reporting their salaries. many physicians still make a ton of money however, it is seen as a moral crime to make sick money. so many physicians probably play it down a bit...

5. it is well known that physician make the highest salary on avg than any other profession. yes the business ceiling is higher than a physicians. but the basement of physicians is like in the low six figures, which is probably well above the avg of the business man.

 

[Law2Doc]

4. on these salary websites, i HIGHLY doubt that they have most physicians reporting their salaries. many physicians still make a ton of money however, it is seen as a moral crime to make sick money. so many physicians probably play it down a bit...

This point is where your post doesn't ring true. People in general PUFF UP their stats. (Just look at MDApplicants.com for evidence.) It is human nature to try and make yourself sound more successful. And also the people most likely to report their salaries are the ones most happy about them. People who are embarrassed about how little they earn do not return the surveys. Thus when polling physicians on salaries, you are far more likely to get only responses from people who are happy about their salaries, and people will puff it up somewhat (perhaps addiing in nonsalary benefits or hopefully optimistic bonuses to make it sound like a better number). Everyone wants to keep up with the Jones'es. So I suspect the numbers are played up quite a bit, not played down, as you suggest.

 

[happydays]

I want to be doctor so I can remove feces from old people's colons.


Ok, I was joking, for those of you being exposed to sarcasm for the first time.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

This point is where your post doesn't ring true. People in general PUFF UP their stats. (Just look at MDApplicants.com for evidence.) It is human nature to try and make yourself sound more successful. And also the people most likely to report their salaries are the ones most happy about them. People who are embarrassed about how little they earn do not return the surveys. Thus when polling physicians on salaries, you are far more likely to get only responses from people who are happy about their salaries, and people will puff it up somewhat (perhaps addiing in nonsalary benefits or hopefully optimistic bonuses to make it sound like a better number). Everyone wants to keep up with the Jones'es. So I suspect the numbers are played up quite a bit, not played down, as you suggest.

Of course if the numbers are based on tax returns (which I don't believe those are) then they would be far more accurate.

 

[QuikClot]

Of course if the numbers are based on tax returns (which I don't believe those are) then they would be far more accurate.

That would be nice, but realistically, you're stuck with self-reporting. That's why I stuck with one website for all salary data; so any distortions caused by the methodology would not affect comparisons.

Presumably all professions like to puff themselves up, so if the physicians salaries are inflated, so are the others. The comparisons are still valid.