Nurse propaganda

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The cold hard truth about Nurse Practitioners from a R.N.

Yes, the clinical rotations are a joke, I hear this so many times from my co-workers-basically follow someone around for a little while yadda yadda yadda look at a chart yadda yadda yadda that's it, do that for 700 hours and you're done.

Most co-workers in the program are idiots, seriously not being sarcastic, but they are- one told me the other day vaccines still cause autism.

They are not cost effective, they are just referral machines because they lack the ability to comprehend and analyze a patient the way a MD would be able to.

All programs are done online and with zero ability to weed out people who should be in!


It is certainly untrue that all NP programs on done on line. In my area, you'd be hard-pressed to find such a thing. Some courses, like ethics and certain other things can be done on line, but by no means would anyone with 1/8 of a functional brain sign-on for any such program. And it would be difficult to pass the licensing exam. But I'll tell UPenn that you think their NP programs are all online. LOL
 
Well floor nursing is horrendous, just do your year of med surg and bounce but the best nursing jobs are in home care/visting nursing...... Instantly you will make 10k more than a hospital which start at 65,000... put in a couple of more years they bump you up to 85,000.... then if you get more specialized you can salary at 95,000.. and work side jobs..... plus you do your own schedule you just have to see 52 people a month... so I see 15 people a week... 5 each monday, wednesday and friday home by 2:00PM everyday start at 10:30AM best job ever!

The best jobs, IMHO, are in specialty units in major university centers, where there is actually a lot of learning and a broad range of disease processes and treatments going on. Of course, you have to be OK with rotations, weekends, holidays, and or total nights.
 
Did you seriously just make 5 posts in a row?

Edited for hyperbole.


What'd ya know? Well, not just now. 😉 And it's was a newly buried thread too.
 
Some PAs harvest saphenous veins and such in the OR, but what they do often is not much beyond that. Yes, there are some exceptions, but surgeons that go through the whole trying pathway to become surgeons will continue. Geez, people get nervous enough about having procedures done at teaching hospitals, where they know the surgeon will allow the residents and fellows to do some of the surgery. There are some interesting stories. OTOH, rightfully so, a good number of surgeons that are worth anything are utter control freaks--thank God.
I have no idea what you are saying here. U ok?
 
What will surgeons do when NPs and PAs are granted the right to practice surgery?

You are a world class fool if you don't think this will eventually happen by the way.

"THIS CASE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN PERFORMED WITHOUT THE EXCELLENT ASSISTANCE OF BOB JOHNSON, PA-C."
- Quote from EMR from one patient's arthroplasty by ortho surgeon that I read very recently (name made up).

Only someone who hasn't gone through surgical training would entertain that is a thought.

Sure, they might be allowed to do certain procedures that could take away cases (ports, PEGs, I&D of abscess), but nothing further.
 
"THIS CASE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN PERFORMED WITHOUT THE EXCELLENT ASSISTANCE OF BOB JOHNSON, PA-C."
- Quote from EMR from one patient's arthroplasty by ortho surgeon that I read very recently (name made up).

Don't let that kind of language scare you. He also wrote "thank you for the most amazingly interesting consult for lumbago EVER" on the prior chart. Surgical assisting and doing all the intern-style floor scut is an excellent use of midlevels.
 
"THIS CASE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN PERFORMED WITHOUT THE EXCELLENT ASSISTANCE OF BOB JOHNSON, PA-C."
- Quote from EMR from one patient's arthroplasty by ortho surgeon that I read very recently (name made up).

This is justification for billing the PA as an assistant. Operative notes are primarily for billing support.
 
Only someone who hasn't gone through surgical training would entertain that is a thought.

Sure, they might be allowed to do certain procedures that could take away cases (ports, PEGs, I&D of abscess), but nothing further.
I'm sure 20 years ago, the GIs going through fellowship didn't think they would be sharing their procedures with people who didn't go to medical school too.
 
The more flowery the compliments, the sh**ier the consult.

"Thank you for this consult"

"Thank you for this fascinating consult"

"Thank you for providing us the wonderful opportunity to participate in this fine upstanding gentleman's care"

"Medicine input greatly appreciated"
Felt like punching out that resident
 
The more flowery the compliments, the sh**ier the consult.

"Thank you for this consult"

"Thank you for this fascinating consult"

"Thank you for providing us the wonderful opportunity to participate in this fine upstanding gentleman's care"

Is this actually true lol? When I'm reading notes on rotations I always just thought these doctors were just insanely polite.
 
Is this actually true lol? When I'm reading notes on rotations I always just thought these doctors were just insanely polite.

It is actually just the opposite. It basically means, "Thank you for wasting my time. Also **** your mother"
 
It is actually just the opposite. It basically means, "Thank you for wasting my time. Also **** your mother"

Sorry if I'm kinda green regarding the consult culture but why don't the doctors want consults? Isn't it more business for them? Or are so many people on salary now that it just forces them do stay later? Or its an ego thing like "You seriously couldn't have put that catheter in yourself, I was 3rd in my class at Yale for this garbage?".
 
Sorry if I'm kinda green regarding the consult culture but why don't the doctors want consults? Isn't it more business for them? Or are so many people on salary now that it just forces them do stay later? Or its an ego thing like "You seriously couldn't have put that catheter in yourself, I was 3rd in my class at Yale for this garbage?".

It is different in training/academics vs private practice. In practice the low hanging fruit is great. It is money in your pocket no matter what.

In training it is just extra work. Now this isn't for real consults. So for instance if someone needs real help and the patient has a real cardiac complaint we have no problem doing the consult. If they have anything rare then it's even better and we get excited for those consults. If youre consulting me for a procedure that only I can do, of course I'm gonna be more than happy to do that Consult.

But if it is a bogus consult for a bogus complaint then it's nothing but wasting my time. The bar is different for different services. For surgery the bar is very very low. For instance I won't freak out if there consulting me for sinus tachycardia. They don't know any better. However if it's internal medicine the bar is much higher. They should know better and should be able to handle much themselves.
 
I pretty much never write "sign off"

I practice the slow fadeaway

The fundamentals of a passive aggressive consult note

Consult to: Bob Johnson, MD, FACS, Director of Microvascular Reconstructive Surgery, Professor of Head and Neck Oncologic Surgery [note the ridiculous title, making sure the consulting ED NP knows just who they are bothering with this]

Resaon for Consult: "Vertigo" [putting the chief complaint in quotes is very important, both for Medicare billing and to cast doubt on whether the patient ever had vertigo]

HPI: Ms. Smith is a very pleasant [the more pleasant they are, the more bull**** the c/s] 92-year-old female who had an episode of syncope after standing up at an outdoor church picnic in July heat. She said she felt lightheaded when she stood, then had loss of consciousness. She denies vertigo [very important to state that the patient denies the chief complaint], hearing loss, tinnitus, otalgia, otorrhea. No headaches. Reports no prior history of vertigo. No history of otologic trauma or surgery. [Make your pertinent negatives very long to make it clear that you asked all the questions they didn't]

...

Assessment and Plan
92yo female with "vertigo" [quotes again]

- No evidence of vertigo
- If patient having recurrent syncope, can consider audiogram, electronystagmogram, and electrocochleography to rule out otolithic crisis of Tumarkin in setting of Meniere's disease [Make a ridiculous recommendation that will add nothing to patient care]
- Patient may follow up with Dr. Johnson if she desires [make it clear you don't give a **** if you ever see the patient again, but don't include this statement if patient is crazy]

Seen and discussed with attending physician, Dr. Johnson.

Thank you very much for this interesting consult.

VisionaryTics MD PGY2 State U Otolaryngology [do not include personal or service pager]

We will sign off. [end with the stinger]
 
The fundamentals of a passive aggressive consult note

Consult to: Bob Johnson, MD, FACS, Director of Microvascular Reconstructive Surgery, Professor of Head and Neck Oncologic Surgery [note the ridiculous title, making sure the consulting ED NP knows just who they are bothering with this]

Resaon for Consult: "Vertigo" [putting the chief complaint in quotes is very important, both for Medicare billing and to cast doubt on whether the patient ever had vertigo]

HPI: Ms. Smith is a very pleasant [the more pleasant they are, the more bull**** the c/s] 92-year-old female who had an episode of syncope after standing up at an outdoor church picnic in July heat. She said she felt lightheaded when she stood, then had loss of consciousness. She denies vertigo [very important to state that the patient denies the chief complaint], hearing loss, tinnitus, otalgia, otorrhea. No headaches. Reports no prior history of vertigo. No history of otologic trauma or surgery. [Make your pertinent negatives very long to make it clear that you asked all the questions they didn't]

...

Assessment and Plan
92yo female with "vertigo" [quotes again]

- No evidence of vertigo
- If patient having recurrent syncope, can consider audiogram, electronystagmogram, and electrocochleography to rule out otolithic crisis of Tumarkin in setting of Meniere's disease [Make a ridiculous recommendation that will add nothing to patient care]
- Patient may follow up with Dr. Johnson if she desires [make it clear you don't give a **** if you ever see the patient again, but don't include this statement if patient is crazy]

Seen and discussed with attending physician, Dr. Johnson.

Thank you very much for this interesting consult.

VisionaryTics MD PGY2 State U Otolaryngology [do not include personal or service pager]

We will sign off. [end with the stinger]
That is a work of art
 
If you really want to twist the knife, I'm a big fan of including citations in the A&P that demonstrate why the primary team is being idiotic.
This is important. Quoting their own H&P to cast doubt on the validity of the consult and working diagnosis and highlighting the higher priority items they've ignored and/or citing services they should have consulted, but didn't, like, "Echocardiography and carotid Doppler results not available at time of consult."
 
"Medicine input greatly appreciated"

Totally used this one yesterday on a train wreck but added the ultimate surgical excuse aka sign off, "no further indications for surgical management needed"

It's insane to put your pager number in any note. My co intern did this and the nurses would then page him on his unfinished notes asking for updates(since you can see incomplete notes in epic). Ya, never leave your pager number in notes unless you hate life.
 
Totally used this one yesterday on a train wreck but added the ultimate surgical excuse aka sign off, "no further indications for surgical management needed"

It's insane to put your pager number in any note. My co intern did this and the nurses would then page him on his unfinished notes asking for updates(since you can see incomplete notes in epic). Ya, never leave your pager number in notes unless you hate life.


Huh. Maybe this is a regional thing. Everyone here puts their pager number.
 
Not when you have nurses calling every 5 minutes about some new hardware that got put in as if you were the manufacturer

Yes at my institution putting your pager # seems like an open invitation to field questions from anyone about the most none urgent things. My thinking is, if it's important enough they will pull up the call/pager sheet to call me. I've found this auto filters majority of bs pages except at the va where nurses have the team pager number memorized/on speed dial. You know, the va is another whole different kind of beast for another discussion.
 
Eh, maybe I'm just in a good institution. I feel like I field a minimum number of BS pages from our ENT floor (basically the only place we are primary on patients). All the nurses who decide to do ENT are insane (trachs, complicated wounds, tenuous airways, withdrawing alcoholics, etc, etc), so they are pretty damn good after a while on the job. If I get paged after 5pm it's something legit or something like "I'm doing xyz, can you cosign the order" (which has never been unreasonable).

So I'm fine putting my pager number. Aside from the county hospital...dear lord...
 
Eh, maybe I'm just in a good institution. I feel like I field a minimum number of BS pages from our ENT floor (basically the only place we are primary on patients). All the nurses who decide to do ENT are insane (trachs, complicated wounds, tenuous airways, withdrawing alcoholics, etc, etc), so they are pretty damn good after a while on the job. If I get paged after 5pm it's something legit or something like "I'm doing xyz, can you cosign the order" (which has never been unreasonable).

So I'm fine putting my pager number. Aside from the county hospital...dear lord...

I'm on ent this month and ent nurses are pretty solid, but va ward nurse = lol.
 
Yes at my institution putting your pager # seems like an open invitation to field questions from anyone about the most none urgent things. My thinking is, if it's important enough they will pull up the call/pager sheet to call me. I've found this auto filters majority of bs pages except at the va where nurses have the team pager number memorized/on speed dial. You know, the va is another whole different kind of beast for another discussion.

Man va floor nurses...just terrible
And the politicians say they want healthcare to look like the VA. Which I bet they do.
 
Afraid of mid-levels doing surgery? Go where few dare to, inside the cranium #byefelicia
 
The absolute worst are the ED notes where it's painfully apparent that they just clicked buttons. "The duration is ___" "The onset was ____" I'm like what the **** is this? Not only is it useless, it's a waste of space in the EMR
My favorite NP note so far was from this patient who was just discharged from a psych hospital and returned to the ED intoxicated. He had a microcytic anemia (slight anemia, but MCV of 60) when he was admitted to psych.

NP note: Severely anemic (hemoglobin was 10._), needs investigation.

No investigation done.
 
As the resident above me said, ED physicians often use the same Powernote templates. The notes are a pain in the ass to read, and are about the least efficient way to learn about a patient if you're, say, on an admitting team.
Assuming the patient can talk, I honestly don't care what the ED writes... I'm going to go examine the patient anyways and generally find out more than the "Is the patient going to die? Does the patient need to be admitted? OH CRUD, TIME TO DISPO IS TOO LONG! ADMIT!ADMIT!ADMIT!" doc is going to do anyways.
 
I was explicitly told that you need signature, non-script last name, pgy-level, and pager for our handwritten notes. The hospital made it sound like it was some jcaho thing, but perhaps it was some rule gone wild.
 
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