Nurses Anti-Vax/Antivax

[Ccdd]

I’m starting to notice that more and more nurses are anti-vax. Recently, I took my foster children to a new doctor and discussed vaccines. As with any medical care aside from ER services, I have to get approval from their medical social worker through the agency. As I stepped out of the doctor’s office to make the call, a nurse who worked in the doctor’s office overheard me discussing the vaccines and said that it’s great to see another parent question if vaccines are even necessary and congratulated me for “realizing the truth”. I didn’t have time to respond back to the nurse since I was then connected & received approval. What is going on with these nurses?

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

I’m starting to notice that more and more nurses are anti-vax. Recently, I took my foster children to a new doctor and discussed vaccines. As with any medical care aside from ER services, I have to get approval from their medical social worker through the agency. As I stepped out of the doctor’s office to make the call, a nurse who worked in the doctor’s office overheard me discussing the vaccines and said that it’s great to see another parent question if vaccines are even necessary and congratulated me for “realizing the truth”. I didn’t have time to respond back to the nurse since I was then connected & received approval. What is going on with these nurses?

I think we all know the answer to that.

I would absolutely complain to the office manager/doctor about that however. Nurses who are vocally anti-vaccine at their job have no business having said job.

 

[Ccdd]

Just to clarify, I’m 100% on board with vaccinations. My only hesitancy in this particular scenario was that I legally have to get approval for any and all medical care since the foster children are technically wards of the state. When I say any and all medical care this includes even the basics such as dental cleanings, eye exams, and physicals. The medical social worker gave approval after reviewing their medical records (they were only partially completed); all in all it was maybe a 2 minute phone call.
I did flag down the nurse after the children finished their doctor’s appointment and asked her what she meant by her comments. She then said that getting a vaccine is a HUGE medical decision and the risks outweigh the benefits. I asked what would those be and immediately said autism. I said that numerous studies have shown that that statement is false and she said that those studies aren’t real and don’t show the truth. Ok, I figured she won’t believe any studies. I then mentioned the importance of herd immunity and her response was that it doesn’t exist because if it did then we wouldn’t have outbreaks of measles. I countered that that’s because of the decline in measles vaccinations and the data supports that statement. She then said that causation doesn’t equal correlation. While that phrase is definitely true, it doesn’t apply to the increase of vaccine preventable diseases and the recent outbreaks because once again, the data supports this. She then got SUPER angry and slammed down her hands and shouted that she’s a nurse and knows all about vaccinations. I kept calm but firmly replied that I literally worked on vaccine research and have worked as a scientist for more than a decade. I then noticed that she’s only a RN which is only 2 years of schooling and how could she possibly know more than my 7 years of schooling (I have 2 masters degrees and am currently pursuing my 5th degree in STEM). While I’m definitely not a medical doctor, I feel that I probably know a bit more about vaccinations than her having worked in labs on developing vaccines, state and federal health agencies, health departments vaccination campaigns, and through all those years of school. She was so livid and followed me out into the hallway where she was yelling about how she’s an expert and knows more than the doctor and scientist and one day I’ll “see the truth”. I hurried out of the building because that RN was clearly a wound up.
This isn’t the first nurse I’ve encountered with these beliefs! And I’ve definitely experienced this in numerous doctors’ offices (due to various foster kids and state mandates for physicals which are preferably conducted at a physician that the child has seen before).
But this is the first nurse that I’ve met who started yelling and openly discussing why she thinks vaccines are bad.

 

[Ccdd]

I think we all know the answer to that.

I would absolutely complain to the office manager/doctor about that however. Nurses who are vocally anti-vaccine at their job have no business having said job.

I did file a complaint with the office in which she works in. Unfortunately, the doctor himself doesn’t really have any power since he simply has an office in a building through one of the sprawling healthcare companies in my state. The building offers several different medical services from pediatrics to radiology to internal medicine - all of which are under the same healthcare company. He doesn’t have a say as to who is hired or fired, as they’re employed by that sprawling healthcare company. When I did call this sprawling healthcare company to report that particular RN, the customer service representative took my complaint and followed up with how medicine is always changing and different opinions aren’t necessarily forbidden. If there was an issue with the care received, we can escalate my concern but since there wasn’t an issue (the doctor was totally fine) there’s not much they can do. I mentioned that I’m worried this particular nurse is going to spread her personal beliefs - that are scientifically false - and convince patients to reject vaccines that are offered. The customer service representative said that they can’t discuss other medical records with me but any concerns a patient may have they can discuss with their healthcare provider. I said I’m not trying to discuss other medical records and reiterated my concern. The rep reiterated the same statement verbatim (maybe it was from a script?). I get that most customer service reps are just doing their job without any thought and trying to make a paycheck, but at the same time I feel like there should be some way to make this a known issue so that maybe going forward their internal policies can be modified to keep personal opinions to oneself or to maybe prohibit nurses from giving out medical advice of any sort.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah, it really is a shame. My wife is a nurse (not anti-vax), and some of her coworkers when she used to do clinical nursing were anti-vax.

I’m sure there is a way to escalate it. You just have to get the right person on the phone. Another option is to get their attention by putting it in reviews. Giving them (not the doctor, the office) bad reviews and mentioning why might get their attention.

That said, moving this to TIH where it’s more appropriate.

 

[Lawpy]

I have seen zero antivax nurses. All of them were blaming the incompetence and noncompliance of Americans for making covid 19 endemic and long lasting.

I'm sure antivax nurses exist but i haven't seen them so i guess i'm lucky

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I have seen zero antivax nurses. All of them were blaming the incompetence and noncompliance of Americans for making covid 19 endemic and long lasting.

I'm sure antivax nurses exist but i haven't seen them so i guess i'm lucky

All you have to do is look on Facebook or Instagram. They’re everywhere.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

All you have to do is look on Facebook or Instagram. They’re everywhere.

Or, you know, talk to nurses. I've met plenty of them who aren't going to get it.

 

[Lawpy]

Or, you know, talk to nurses. I've met plenty of them who aren't going to get it.

Must be at different places. The pro vaccine sentiment is strong here.

All you have to do is look on Facebook or Instagram. They’re everywhere.

Eh social media is a dumpster fire but to see nurses spreading antivax crap is depressing

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Eh social media is a dumpster fire but to see nurses spreading antivax crap is depressing

Doesn’t matter. Most people are on social media, and nurses are considered the most trusted profession in America despite them being less likely to use evidence-based medicine, which includes a strong anti-vaccine bias and obsession with essential oils.

 

[Lawpy]

Doesn’t matter. Most people are on social media, and nurses are considered the most trusted profession in America despite them being less likely to use evidence-based medicine, which includes a strong anti-vaccine bias and obsession with essential oils.

How do you know if they're serious vs trolling?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

How do you know if they're serious vs trolling?

These people aren’t trolling.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

News flash: Just because you work in the medical fields doesn't mean you know anything about medicine...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

News flash: Just because you work in the medical fields doesn't mean you know anything about medicine...

Bingo.

 

[TwistedTea]

I've found that many (if not most) nurses know enough about "medical stuff" just to be dangerous when "thinking" outside of their role as a nurse. Probably one facet of why we have so many nurses all of alternative medicine (read: junk).

 

[tj2tmax]

Hello,


My name is Tadi Chirongoma and I am a psychology student at La Sierra University. I am performing a research project under the guidance of a faculty sponsor, Dr. Leslie R. Martin, studying how medical practitioners perceive and communicate with anti-vaxxers. This study has approval from La Sierra University’s Institutional Review Board


Before the Coronavirus pandemic, the focus of this study was to be practicing clinicians (nurses, pharmacists, doctors). Because of the current situation, however, it is now more feasible to conduct this study on students entering the medical field. This is why I am reaching out to nursing, medical schools, and anyone who can participate. If you would be willing to share this study with students and any other relevant contacts, I would very much appreciate it. The study can be accessed directly at this link: https://forms.gle/LDkspnQ11gNgNWiy5


If you have any questions don’t hesitate to ask. My contact information is [email protected]. You can also reach my supervisor, Dr. Martin, at 951-315-2199 (cell number) or [email protected]


Thank you so much for your time and consideration,

Truly,

Tadi

 

[FutureInternist]

Doesn’t matter. Most people are on social media, and nurses are considered the most trusted profession in America despite them being less likely to use evidence-based medicine, which includes a strong anti-vaccine bias and obsession with essential oils.

I kinda sorta joked about not giving any of my pts to a particular nurse who was discussing (very seriously) her horoscope with someone at the nurses station.

At another hospital, there were Himalayan salt lamps at each nurses station 🙄

If docs push back on these claims, then it becomes “bullying” specially given the power differential, and while one may argue that since those opinions (wrong as they are), don’t affect pts, why bother, but you have no idea what they are saying to them.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Hello,


My name is Tadi Chirongoma and I am a psychology student at La Sierra University. I am performing a research project under the guidance of a faculty sponsor, Dr. Leslie R. Martin, studying how medical practitioners perceive and communicate with anti-vaxxers. This study has approval from La Sierra University’s Institutional Review Board


Before the Coronavirus pandemic, the focus of this study was to be practicing clinicians (nurses, pharmacists, doctors). Because of the current situation, however, it is now more feasible to conduct this study on students entering the medical field. This is why I am reaching out to nursing, medical schools, and anyone who can participate. If you would be willing to share this study with students and any other relevant contacts, I would very much appreciate it. The study can be accessed directly at this link: https://forms.gle/LDkspnQ11gNgNWiy5


If you have any questions don’t hesitate to ask. My contact information is [email protected]. You can also reach my supervisor, Dr. Martin, at 951-315-2199 (cell number) or [email protected]


Thank you so much for your time and consideration,

Truly,

Tadi

FYI to those who have reported this message--we have recently made a change which allows IRB-approved surveys to be posted in appropriate forums

 

[Neuronix]

I'm an oncologist, and we have several patient care locations in our large academic practice. I recently (i.e. June 2021) went to care for an unvaccinated patient with URI symptoms strongly suspicious for COVID-19 and found out that none of the nurses who work at that location are vaccinated against COVID. I am personally disgusted that someone who cares for cancer patients can do this. They are putting themselves, their families, and their patients at risk.

I asked them to stand down and let me take the vitals for the patient so not to put anyone at risk, and then was given a broken vitals machine. So one of the nurses came over with a regular mask and gloves and took the vitals with a working machine. I made my clinic director aware of this situation, and I was told after a meeting among leadership that the nurses should "own their decision", do their job, and continue to use PPE as they did all through the pandemic.

I strongly disagree with that decision. I told them that I would absolutely not let someone knowingly put themselves and others at risk because I am a physician and a human being first. If any patients have possible COVID-19 symptoms, I will take care of them personally since I was vaccinated in December when the vaccines first became available.

Still, I think this situation is lunacy. Why aren't healthcare workers required to have the vaccine? It is widely available in my community.

My fellow physicians working at that location were also unaware of what amounts to a vaccine strike among the support staff. The physicians want to let down their guard to some extent, completely unaware of the extent to which nursing and other admin staff (i.e. front desk, etc) are refusing the vaccine. I think they have a duty to know at this point that large percentages of the people they work with are unvaccinated. This strays into legal territory. Are we allowed to know or tell if someone is vaccinated or not?

 

[Agast]

I'm an oncologist, and we have several patient care locations in our large academic practice. I recently (i.e. June 2021) went to care for an unvaccinated patient with URI symptoms strongly suspicious for COVID-19 and found out that none of the nurses who work at that location are vaccinated against COVID. I am personally disgusted that someone who cares for cancer patients can do this. They are putting themselves, their families, and their patients at risk.

I asked them to stand down and let me take the vitals for the patient so not to put anyone at risk, and then was given a broken vitals machine. So one of the nurses came over with a regular mask and gloves and took the vitals with a working machine. I made my clinic director aware of this situation, and I was told after a meeting among leadership that the nurses should "own their decision", do their job, and continue to use PPE as they did all through the pandemic.

I strongly disagree with that decision. I told them that I would absolutely not let someone knowingly put themselves and others at risk because I am a physician and a human being first. If any patients have possible COVID-19 symptoms, I will take care of them personally since I was vaccinated in December when the vaccines first became available.

Still, I think this situation is lunacy. Why aren't healthcare workers required to have the vaccine? It is widely available in my community.

My fellow physicians working at that location were also unaware of what amounts to a vaccine strike among the support staff. The physicians want to let down their guard to some extent, completely unaware of the extent to which nursing and other admin staff (i.e. front desk, etc) are refusing the vaccine. I think they have a duty to know at this point that large percentages of the people they work with are unvaccinated. This strays into legal territory. Are we allowed to know or tell if someone is vaccinated or not?

Keep an eye on this case:

Group of Houston Methodist nurses host walkout over COVID-19 vaccine job requirement

Monday was the deadline for employees to get the COVID vaccine or face losing their jobs, which led to a lawsuit involving more than 100 nurses.

abc13.com

The Methodist system in Greater Houston has made the vaccine mandatory. Today was the deadline for getting vaccinated. A lawsuit is pending over this requirement.

 

[xffan624]

Keep an eye on this case:

Group of Houston Methodist nurses host walkout over COVID-19 vaccine job requirement

Monday was the deadline for employees to get the COVID vaccine or face losing their jobs, which led to a lawsuit involving more than 100 nurses.

abc13.com

The Methodist system in Greater Houston has made the vaccine mandatory. Today was the deadline for getting vaccinated. A lawsuit is pending over this requirement.

Houston Methodist workers suspended for not getting vaccinated - The Washington Post

Looks like they're not playing. 178 personnel were suspended without pay for two weeks. I'm sure a lot of hospital systems are keeping an eye on this case.

 

[FutureInternist]

“Magnetic” nurse

 

[xffan624]

“Magnetic” nurse

Don't forgot the DO spouting the same nonsense earlier in the hearing for the same bill.

 

[FutureInternist]

Don't forgot the DO spouting the same nonsense earlier in the hearing for the same bill.

Oh for sure.
There’s no shortage of idiots in all medical fields that are…. well idiots.
Rand Paul comes to mind too 😏

 

[culturekweenXx]

Don't forgot the DO spouting the same nonsense earlier in the hearing for the same bill.

Unfortunately, a lone DO going off the rails in the eyes of the public inevitably leads to discussions about how "she's not a real doctor anyway". Barely anyone (non-med professionals, at least) sees a fringe nurse and turns that into a conversation about flaws in nursing education.

 

[xffan624]

Unfortunately, a lone DO going off the rails in the eyes of the public inevitably leads to discussions about how "she's not a real doctor anyway". Barely anyone (non-med professionals, at least) sees a fringe nurse and turns that into a conversation about flaws in nursing education.

Regardless of MD vs. DO her presence is much more offensive to me than a nurse. I know the education we go through and how any doctor can embrace and advocate in front of a legislature for these nonsensical conspiracy theories either means to me they've abandoned the principles they learned in medical school or they're an intellectually dishonest hack. Either answer is not good.

 

[hestro]

I find it very unbelievable to have people in the health forms to be against vaccinations, which makes it so surprising having meet a few.

 

[nikolaite]

Pro and anti vaxx people are all over. It’s even a mixed bag in research crowds.

 

[Dusn]

I have seen zero antivax nurses. All of them were blaming the incompetence and noncompliance of Americans for making covid 19 endemic and long lasting.

I'm sure antivax nurses exist but i haven't seen them so i guess i'm lucky

At first I was so thankful for all these anti-vax nurses because it allowed me, ophthalmologist, to get bumped way up to the front of the line (I was shocked when I was eligible by the second week of vaccine availability!). But now they need to stop their silliness and just get the shot.

 

[docdocgoose12345]

I personally know 4 anti-vax nurses. I don't know why this is a trend (perhaps in my area?), but in addition, I have had an absolutely horrific experience with one.

When my mom was having end-of-life care, one of the nurses that was rotating to oversee her care decided to scream about vaccines over my dying mother's body. I am not kidding, some of these people are insane.

First started off with my grandmother mentioning I was going to medical school and have an MSc in Global Health, to which she responded that I must love Bill Gates. I was annoyed but trying to spend time with my mom in her final few days and just laughed it off because I had too much going on. Then she kept jabbing that because I have an MSc then I must love vaccines and that I know nothing about the harm they have on children. All unprovoked attacks, within the first 10 minutes of meeting her. I asked her why she felt the need to bring this up when we hadn't even been introduced by name and I was trying to spend time with my mother. More doubling down and increased to yelling on her part. I was disgusted.

It's so sad that some healthcare workers are so deluded in their own egos they feel the need to spew out garbage to the people that trust them. Obviously, the majority of nurses are not like this, but from an anecdotal experience it is terrifying that I have met so many.