nursing certificates behind names

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WTGGrl

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Are nurses required to put all their certificates or degrees behind their names, like sally jones, RN, CCRN, CRNP, TNCC? I've seen nurses running around with like 4 different "degrees" behind their names.. just curious what the deal is with that.
 
nope, they just like it....
you don't see labels out there like:
j. smith md, bs, acls, pals, atls
or
j. smith, pa, bs, ms, emt-p, acls, etc

it's just a nurse thing....the ones who are sure of themselves usually just list rn and then 1 specialty like ccrn or cen, whatever is relevant to their current job.
 
The rule for the alphabet soup is: highest degree held, professional license, then professional certifications. for example,Sally Jones, MSN, RN, CCRN. TNCC, ACLS, etc are not considered professional certifications, only ones that are administered by ANCC or NLN. Unfortunately, many nurses are enamored of themselves and their alphabet soup. I saw one get torn up by a lawyer when she did not know the association which administered the certification, or how she got it. It was not a pretty sight.
 
This is an unfortunate syndrome that attacks MANY physical therapists and nurses...but PTs the majority of the time. The only cure is satisfaction in your primary title.
 
Non-doctors use this trick because it makes them feel like doctors.

Thats also why they decided to start using the white coat. 50 years ago only docs wore white coats.

I propose all doctors switch to red coats. I guarantee you in 5 years all the midlevels and others would copy us and also switch to the red coats.
 
MacGyver said:
Non-doctors use this trick because it makes them feel like doctors.
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Whatever...



To the OP, you aren't "required" to put all those certifications behind your name. However, if you have CCRN or CEN or the daddy of 'em all CFRN on your badge, you'll catch a lot less flack from other nurses concerning patient care. I never listed mine on the badge. But, I did write CEN on the nursing notes of those patients being transported out to other hospitals. Once I started doing that, recieving nurses stopped calling me back asking me why this or that was or wasn't done. I didn't mind explaining where to find that info in the nurses' notes, at first. But, it did get to be a pain esp. when the ED was busy and everything was already charted up.
 
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emedpa said:
nope, they just like it....
you don't see labels out there like:
j. smith md, bs, acls, pals, atls
or
j. smith, pa, bs, ms, emt-p, acls, etc

it's just a nurse thing....the ones who are sure of themselves usually just list rn and then 1 specialty like ccrn or cen, whatever is relevant to their current job.
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"Just a nurse thing" Why? You never see a MD or PA with more than PA or MD after their name?
Another question, if you are a CCRN why would you add RN, can you be a CCRN without being a RN first?
 
-- Anything beyond 'RN' designates a person who thinks that 'inservice' is a verb and the 'ten commandmends' a policy.

-- No, it is not required to list anything beyond a title/grade that allows the patient to determine whether you are part of the medical/nursing staff or the housekeeping staff.

-- Physicians are not immune from this title issue (I don't care that you are 'FACS', you can either do a clean hemicolectomy or you can't).
 
Yesterday I saw an ad for a physician who had just joined a practice. "John Smith MD, PhD, FACOG. The there's the local PA who goes by "PA-C, MPH."

No, nurses are not the only ones who are guilty of having an alphabet soup after their names. It's just easier to single them out since many others in health care undervalue nurses and look for any way to belittle them.
 
fab4fan said:
Yesterday I saw an ad for a physician who had just joined a practice. "John Smith MD, PhD, FACOG. The there's the local PA who goes by "PA-C, MPH."

No, nurses are not the only ones who are guilty of having an alphabet soup after their names. It's just easier to single them out since many others in health care undervalue nurses and look for any way to belittle them.
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I think the point is that nurses are the only ones to list every certification on their nametag(not cv). I have seen many nurses with:
jane doe, rn, bsn, cen, ccrn, fnp, faan
is that all really necessary?on the cv, sure. but on the nametag?
I can see pa, mph or md, facs but do you really need 5 sets of initials?
 
emedpa said:
I think the point is that nurses are the only ones to list every certification on their nametag(not cv). I have seen many nurses with:
jane doe, rn, bsn, cen, ccrn, fnp, faan
is that all really necessary?on the cv, sure. but on the nametag?
I can see pa, mph or md, facs but do you really need 5 sets of initials?
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I think it was already pointed out how designations should appear. It was clarified quite amply, in fact. And it was pointed out that nurses are not the only ones to do this. You choose to focus on nurses because of your general animus toward them. I'll bet you wouldn't have the nerve to ridicule a doc who had an alphabet soup after his name (which I've seen), and you would defend to the death a PA who did the same.

You don't like nurses unless they're "taking orders" from you. I got that. You have little to no respect for advanced practice nurses. I got that too.

In case you weren't aware, some facilities make you list specialty certifications, so it is not always just because some uppity nurse feels the need to show off. I worked for a hospital where it was mandatory to have relevant certifications listed after the RN. They thought it would show the patients just how experienced some of the nurses were. In my case, that meant two sets of additional credentials. Did I like it? No, but I wasn't going to let that get in the way of a paycheck and the differentials I got for having additional expertise.

You really should not speak as an expert about nursing, emedpa. You're not a nurse, so you really don't know the specifics of the nursing profession; all you can do is give your opinion, and sometimes it is really misinformed.
 
fab4fan said:
I think it was already pointed out how designations should appear. It was clarified quite amply, in fact. And it was pointed out that nurses are not the only ones to do this. You choose to focus on nurses because of your general animus toward them. I'll bet you wouldn't have the nerve to ridicule a doc who had an alphabet soup after his name (which I've seen), and you would defend to the death a PA who did the same.

You don't like nurses unless they're "taking orders" from you. I got that. You have little to no respect for advanced practice nurses. I got that too.

In case you weren't aware, some facilities make you list specialty certifications, so it is not always just because some uppity nurse feels the need to show off. I worked for a hospital where it was mandatory to have relevant certifications listed after the RN. They thought it would show the patients just how experienced some of the nurses were. In my case, that meant two sets of additional credentials. Did I like it? No, but I wasn't going to let that get in the way of a paycheck and the differentials I got for having additional expertise.

You really should not speak as an expert about nursing, emedpa. You're not a nurse, so you really don't know the specifics of the nursing profession; all you can do is give your opinion, and sometimes it is really misinformed.
Click to expand...

I have never seen a doc or pa with more than 2 titles. I have seen MANY nurses who do this. in my experience it is only the nurses with a chip on their shulder who list 5 titles. in my facility the best, most competent nurses just list rn, cen but those with an agenda and something to prove list 5. it is NOT required here. it is just ego.
I don't hate nurses. I have many good friends who are nurses who I do things with outside of work.we scuba dive together. our kids play together, etc
I have good friends who are np's as well.
it is the 10-15% of nurses who think they rule the world and that anyone who isn't a nurse is an idiot that give the rest of you a bad name.
 
emedpa said:
I have good friends who are np's as well.
it is the 10-15% of nurses who think they rule the world and that anyone who isn't a nurse is an idiot that give the rest of you a bad name.
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emedpa, you do seem to have a negative tone with nurses/nps. You often follow your negative comments with some of my best friends are nurses or some of the best providers you know are NPs. I can see why people would think your a bit hostile towards nursing.
 
fab4fan said:
You really should not speak as an expert about nursing, emedpa. You're not a nurse, so you really don't know the specifics of the nursing profession; all you can do is give your opinion, and sometimes it is really misinformed.
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He's not speaking as an expert - he's making a simple observation, one that's pretty easy to see out in the real world.

A couple sets - no big deal. A 3rd to show relevance to your current area of practice - maybe, but close to the edge. Anything more than that is overkill, and that includes the hospital that wants every set of initials on a nametag just for show. Do you think patients know (or care) what all the initials stand for except for the basic MD, RN, PA, PT, etc.? Nope. Put 'em on your business card or letterhead all you want, but don't add additional lines on your nametag just to handle all the initials, and please don't write them all out after every notation you put in the patient's chart.

And just curious - who decreed that CFRN is the "daddy of 'em all" ?
 
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I find that in most things, simple is best. Fundamentals!
 
Listing certs on a badge is pretentious, period...

Nobody cares...

It's tacky, and self serving...

Even BSN is overkill...
 
chimichanga said:
Listing certs on a badge is pretentious, period...

Nobody cares...

It's tacky, and self serving...

Even BSN is overkill...
Click to expand...
no you need the bsn to be able to lord it over the lowly adn's (who are usuallly better nurses anyways....)
 
emedpa said:
no you need the bsn to be able to lord it over the lowly adn's (who are usuallly better nurses anyways....)
Click to expand...

I am starting to wonder about your hostile comments regarding nurses, especially those with education. Where you married to RN, BSN, FNPC, BLS, ATLS, PALS, EMT?
 
jwk wrote:

He's not speaking as an expert - he's making a simple observation, one that's pretty easy to see out in the real world
Click to expand...

emedpa frequently answers questions about nurses/nursing, particularly questions about NPs. His responses are often biased against NPs and contain inaccurate information/distortions. He never shrinks from disparaging NPs, while extolling the supposed superiority of PAs. It would not occur to him to acknowledge that his own profession has its share of problems.

As far as multiple certs listed on a badge by anyone, I agree it's unnecessary, but it's not hurting me, so big whoop. Maybe, in the case of nurses, if they were treated with respect by other health care professionals they wouldn't feel the need to list multiple degrees/credentials.
 
prairiedog said:
agreed!
Click to expand...
you agree with them but not me when I say the same thing?
( and no, not married to someone in medicine or nursing-just tired of the PERSISTENT attacks made by rn and np organizations against the pa profession)
 
fab4fan said:
jwk wrote:



emedpa frequently answers questions about nurses/nursing, particularly questions about NPs. His responses are often biased against NPs and contain inaccurate information/distortions. He never shrinks from disparaging NPs, while extolling the supposed superiority of PAs. It would not occur to him to acknowledge that his own profession has its share of problems.

As far as multiple certs listed on a badge by anyone, I agree it's unnecessary, but it's not hurting me, so big whoop. Maybe, in the case of nurses, if they were treated with respect by other health care professionals they wouldn't feel the need to list multiple degrees/credentials.
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unless you are an np chances are I know more about the profession than you do at this point having precepted np students, reviewed the curriculum of many programs, worked with( and supervised) multiple np's. there are good np's and bad np's just like there are good/bad pa's, docs, etc.
my concern is( and has been) with the minimum clinical hrs most np programs have( less than 800) and the watered down content of the didactic preparation at many of these programs.np's practice medicine but they like to say it is adv nursing to avoid any kind of oversight from medical boards who would insist on more stringent standards both in the classroom and in clinical preparation.
 
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emedpa, I have lurked here for years, but I wanted to say I appluad your comments. I am pro NP/PA, and have greatly enjoyed working with both, but because of my own path to medication management I see your point about residency/clinical hours. Didactics are needed, but they do not teach one how to prescribe well, only adequately. I am an advanced practice psychologist, and granted my realm is only psychopharmacology, there is more important complexity in this sub-field than is covered in psychiatry residency, MS in psychopharm, and definitely more than midlevel exposure. Nurses differ from PA's in their belief that they think they know what they do not. Add a 1 year residency to NP training I say.
 
psisci said:
emedpa, I have lurked here for years, but I wanted to say I appluad your comments. I am pro NP/PA, and have greatly enjoyed working with both, but because of my own path to medication management I see your point about residency/clinical hours. Didactics are needed, but they do not teach one how to prescribe well, only adequately. I am an advanced practice psychologist, and granted my realm is only psychopharmacology, there is more important complexity in this sub-field than is covered in psychiatry residency, MS in psychopharm, and definitely more than midlevel exposure. Nurses differ from PA's in their belief that they think they know what they do not. Add a 1 year residency to NP training I say.
Click to expand...

Nurses are not the only healthcare professionals who can be guilty of this. I have worked several PAs who had the same attitude. Like the one who was befuddled about why I insisted that the pt. he ordered LiCO3 for should have periodic levels. He blew it off...you can guess what happened next. Or the one who got mad at me (lowly RN) for questioning why he would order a medication that was absolutely contraindicated d/t another med the pt. was getting. Thank goodness the attending backed me. Or the PA who thought I was overreacting when she threw a soiled dressing (pt had pseudomonas) into the regular trash instead of the biohazard trash. You see where I'm going here? Oh well, at least she tried to be nice. She said I "seemed bright" and suggested I "go on" with my education and become a PA. 🙄 The clincher? The PA who recently told me I was ridiculous for taking Mucinex and generic Sudafed together for a recent URI. "They cancel each other out" was her reasoning. Guess she hadn't gotten the memo about Mucinex-D.

How is your prescribing handled when you have a pt. with multiple medical issues in addition to psychiatric diagnoses? Do you have someone to consult with to make sure what you want to prescribe is OK?
 
fab4fan said:
Nurses are not the only healthcare professionals who can be guilty of this. I have worked several PAs who had the same attitude. Like the one who was befuddled about why I insisted that the pt. he ordered LiCO3 for should have periodic levels. He blew it off...you can guess what happened next. Or the one who got mad at me (lowly RN) for questioning why he would order a medication that was absolutely contraindicated d/t another med the pt. was getting. Thank goodness the attending backed me. Or the PA who thought I was overreacting when she threw a soiled dressing (pt had pseudomonas) into the regular trash instead of the biohazard trash. You see where I'm going here? Oh well, at least she tried to be nice. She said I "seemed bright" and suggested I "go on" with my education and become a PA. 🙄 The clincher? The PA who recently told me I was ridiculous for taking Mucinex and generic Sudafed together for a recent URI. "They cancel each other out" was her reasoning. Guess she hadn't gotten the memo about Mucinex-D.
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Do you really want to get into a pissing match like this?
 
I have had many experiences with Np, pA, DO and MD's of similar oversights and stupidity; it cannot be linked to one only. I do not Rx out of my specialty, and Lico3 always needs levels and regular blood work, so you were right on that. My opinion is that the more you know, the more you are able to realize what you do not know.
 
fab4fan said:
I'm very sorry to hear that you precept NP students. That must be totally demoralizing for them to have to listen to you remind them how inferior they are.
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I treat them just like the pa students however it is a little difficult to get them all the procedures and patient experiences they need because their er rotation is 1-2 weeks long as opposed to the 4-6 week rotations the pa students do.....at my last job I was the lead midlevel in the dept and, believe it or not, even hired a few np's who had better qualifications than new grad pa's applying at the same time. I don't generally have a problem with individual np's who know their stuff, my problem is with the way np education in general is structured.
 
emedpa said:
no you need the bsn to be able to lord it over the lowly adn's (who are usuallly better nurses anyways....)
Click to expand...


interesting observation...maybe the very fact that "BSN" is on their badge preconceives one's notion...anyway...

it's all pretentious...the nurse w/alphabet soup on the badge, the surgeon announcing to the mechanic who has his cars at the shop: "this is doctor narcissist, are my Lexi ready," the guy who had 7 at bats 12 years ago for a triple A ballclub, and ALWAYS has a story about it...

please


NOBODY CARES BUT YOU!!!!!!

Do your job w/ pride, the best you can at all times...

Let your actions to the talking!


Chimi, PD, MP, FOT, FOM

(proud dad, medical pro, father of two, friend of many...)
 
chimichanga said:
interesting observation...maybe the very fact that "BSN" is on their badge preconceives one's notion...anyway...

it's all pretentious...the nurse w/alphabet soup on the badge, the surgeon announcing to the mechanic who has his cars at the shop: "this is doctor narcissist, are my Lexi ready," the guy who had 7 at bats 12 years ago for a triple A ballclub, and ALWAYS has a story about it...

please


NOBODY CARES BUT YOU!!!!!!

Do your job w/ pride, the best you can at all times...

Let your actions to the talking!


Chimi, PD, MP, FOT, FOM

(proud dad, medical pro, father of two, friend of many...)
Click to expand...

AGREE- 🙂
emedpa, pa-c, ms,ba, bs, emt-p, acls-I, atls, acls, pals, phtls, btls
 
I actually worked with a retired surgeon, "retiring" as a doc in the box at a local urgent care (literally looking half the stuff up in textbooks...at least he was trying, I give him credit for that), calling the garage where his car was, starting the conversation with "This is doctor..."

It was sad (to me anyway...maybe some people are still impressed, who knows)...Wrong on so many levels, but the point is that when I see the alphabet soup, it strikes me as just as sad...

Get over yourself..

Though, there are some great PEOPLE (docs, nurses, teachers, actors, ballplayers, whomever) whose jobs define their existance...
But for the most part, we should be defined by things greater than our jobs and titles...

I'd rather spend tomorrow going to my son's next karate match than get ANOTHER cert, or degree, or class, or in any way, be away from my family...

The biggest regret I hear from "older" (70+) physicians, is having spent (too much) time away from their families...

you do the math
 
jwk said:
Somehow I think the CRNA's, CNM's, and NP's with master's degrees might disagree with you.
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I don't think they would, unless they're high. All of those nurses should realize that they hold state licenses to practice within their widened scopes. They would also realize that my comments pertained to certifications.
 
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fab4fan said:
Yesterday I saw an ad for a physician who had just joined a practice. "John Smith MD, PhD, FACOG. The there's the local PA who goes by "PA-C, MPH."

No, nurses are not the only ones who are guilty of having an alphabet soup after their names. It's just easier to single them out since many others in health care undervalue nurses and look for any way to belittle them.
Click to expand...

"MD, PhD" is extremely prestigious and highly valued, especially from a NIH-sponsored MSTP program. This is the absolute cream of the cream of the crop and a physician scientist should be so noted because of his/her braininess and specialized training. Hell, there's even an MD/PhD subforum on this website. FACS, similarly, for example, is quite a difficult feat to get even for a surgeon (many people fail every year), so I feel it should be noted. I would place a lot of faith in a surgeon with "FACS" next to his name, much more so than one without. Of course that's pushing it... MD, PhD, FACS, with MPH, Sc.B, etc. is overkill...

My school gave us an ACLS course, and we'll be doing ATLS in a couple of years... and I wouldn't note things like this.

maybe it's different in the world of nursing? is it more pertinent to show that you have certain qualifications if certain tasks demand it, and it might not be part of the overall nursing curriculum?
 
Putting ACLS/ATLS etc. on a badge or in a signature is overkill, not to mention inappropriate if they're job requirements . However, just as you note that there are certain degrees and certifications that are highly esteemed within the medical community, the same holds true in nursing. For a nurse to list a advanced degree and a specialty certification is no different. It's just that there are some who have no respect for nurses to begin with and like to use this to mock nurses.

Personally, I would think a doc who had pts. in the ICU would be glad to see that the nurse caring for his pts. had specialty certification in caring for critically ill patients. It means that she has knowledge and skills above and beyond the usual, and the experience to handle medically fragile patients.

Perhaps if people did just the slightest research, they'd find out what some of these certifications require. It's not just a matter of sending off a check and getting a certificate in the mail.
 
fab4fan said:
Putting ACLS/ATLS etc. on a badge or in a signature is overkill, not to mention inappropriate if they're job requirements . However, just as you note that there are certain degrees and certifications that are highly esteemed within the medical community, the same holds true in nursing. For a nurse to list a advanced degree and a specialty certification is no different. It's just that there are some who have no respect for nurses to begin with and like to use this to mock nurses.

Personally, I would think a doc who had pts. in the ICU would be glad to see that the nurse caring for his pts. had specialty certain in caring for critically ill patients. It means that she has knowledge and skills above and beyond the usual, and the experience to handle medically fragile patients.

Perhaps if people did just the slightest research, they'd find out what some of these certifications require. It's not just a matter of sending off a check and getting a certificate in the mail.
Click to expand...

That's a really really good point. As a future physician, I definitely would feel much more at ease if nurses had the extra qualifications, especially in high risk areas like the NICU, and would respect them much more for this. I'm not sure how many people know what the acronyms stand for in the first place though.
 
megboo said:
Don't all nurses/doctors have to upkeep BLS/ACLS certification?

If so, shouldn't that then be a given and not on a nametag? I think it's more important to identify your role/profession than your certifications, e.g. Stick Stickley, M.D., Stick Stickley, CRNA, Stick Stickley, NP, Stick Stickley, RN, and so on.
Click to expand...

Those you mentioned are a given, and to be honest, I have never seen any nurse put either of those on a name badge.

However, I see nothing wrong with someone who has obtained special certification in a particular area putting that on a badge, e.g. CEN=Certified Emergency Nurse.
 
fab4fan said:
Putting ACLS/ATLS etc. on a badge or in a signature is overkill, not to mention inappropriate if they're job requirements . However, just as you note that there are certain degrees and certifications that are highly esteemed within the medical community, the same holds true in nursing. For a nurse to list a advanced degree and a specialty certification is no different. It's just that there are some who have no respect for nurses to begin with and like to use this to mock nurses.

Personally, I would think a doc who had pts. in the ICU would be glad to see that the nurse caring for his pts. had specialty certification in caring for critically ill patients. It means that she has knowledge and skills above and beyond the usual, and the experience to handle medically fragile patients.

Perhaps if people did just the slightest research, they'd find out what some of these certifications require. It's not just a matter of sending off a check and getting a certificate in the mail.
Click to expand...


I actually just took a look at what is required to get a CEN.. apparently no training hours or course or experience.. just 75% of answers correct on a multiple choice exam.

It has been my experience that attendings, residents, etc barely know the names of their nurses (since they switch 3 times a day and many times don't stay with the same patient the next day). They definitely don't know/care what certifications nurses have. Floor nurses are hired by the human resources dept in a hospital and are supervised by a nurse manager, and if floor nurses don't perform well, it's usually not the attending's job to reprimand them. I'm not saying this is the right way to do things but I'm finding it surprising to believe that people are putting certificates behind their name to allow attendings to trust them more.

Personally, I'd rather have a nurse with 30 years of experience in the ER who was only an RN taking care of my patients as opposed to freshly-minted Nurse Betty, BSN, CEN, CCRN, etc
 
megboo said:
Don't all nurses/doctors have to upkeep BLS/ACLS certification?
Click to expand...

No, at least not everywhere.

The vast majority of nurses in the hospital I worked in only had to keep up a BLS cert (something like a 4 hour review and a joke of a test). The hospital required ACLS of nurses in places where they might have to run a code by themselves for a while (probably 5 min or so for the in house ER doc to get there). Thus, all of the recovery room and ICU nurses had to have ACLS. There was a smattering of ACLS certified people elsewhere in the hospital. I beleive they got a small pay increase for having it.


As far as physicians, I dont think it is in any way required, but would probably be advisable.

Most of these behind the name certs are a joke. You have to have so many years experience in that area then get a certain score on a test. That being said, if people want to put them behind their names, more power to them. But if they arent degrees I wont find them particularly impressive.
 
agreed...it's embarassing to see the alphabet on the badge, and I maintain that nobody else but the badge owner cares
 
Every hospital I have ever worked at or been on staff at required the whole medical staff to be ACLS certified regularly. I had to do it and I am a psychologist...nobody is relying on me to run a code thank God.
I have never seen anyone so desperate that they would put that cert on their name badge.

Dr. psycho, ACLS......??
 
EMT2RN2MD said:
I don't think they would, unless they're high. All of those nurses should realize that they hold state licenses to practice within their widened scopes. They would also realize that my comments pertained to certifications.
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The C in CRNA is "Certified". the C in CNM is "Certified". Depending on the state, they may or may not hold a specific addendum to their license allowing them to practice.
 
Meg and psisci - you should get out more. Lots of hospitals don't require ACLS for their physicians. Likewise, unless RN's use it in their particular area of practice (ER, ICU, PACU, NICU, etc.), many of them aren't required to have it either. BLS is a different story - most hospitals require everyone from housekeeping staff to CEO to maintain their certification.

ACLS and BLS are a pain as well - the standards are constantly evolving (witness the HUGE revisions in both this year). Supposedly AHA even decreed that CURRENT ACLS certifications are void prior to their renewal dates because the standards and protocols changed so drastically this year.

No offense, but I'm not sure why a psychologist would ever be required to have ACLS certification - isn't that far outside even the limited psychopharmacology stuff they're allowed to prescribe in a handful of states, plus some of the procedures don't come close to falling in their scope of practice.

I've been an ACLS instructor for almost 25 years. The ones who blow away the class are generally the EMT's and paramedics that take little for granted and study their asses off. Physicians generally do the worst (cardiologists, internists, and anesthesiologists excepted) because many don't look at the material and assume that they already know enough to get by. RN's generally fall somewhere in the middle, although those involved in ER or ICU care do well. And as far as the procedures (intubation for example), if ACLS is the only time you ever try them, you really don't have much business attempting them in practice.

Now if you really want a challenging and interesting class, try PALS or ATLS - just please don't put the initials on your nametag.
 
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