NYT Today: "Nurses are Not Doctors"

[DocVapor]

I just made a statement. I didn't run any of the profession down.

No, you ran a PERSON down without bothering to understand even the general gist of what they were saying regarding their opinion on the separation of the professions.

Edit: Wow, I think that might be a terrible sentence grammatically. Can I get a little help @Anastomoses ?

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[DrCharlemagne]

OBSESSION

Hint: We're pretty sure you're lying.

 

[deleted480308]

Until I came upon the traitor.

trai·tor
noun\ˈtrā-tər\
: a person who is not loyal enough to his or her peers to let them kill patients by fraudulently practicing above their training, education, and skill level

 

[BurghStudent]

I am not a nurse. I have family members that are both Doctors and nurses. One sibling is a Dr and another is a nurse. They both have this discussion, but in an understanding way. Nobody betrays their own profession. You support your own. .So I don't like it when somebody betrays a profession he/she belongs to. Everybody should fight for what they believe in. Fight on how to make your profession better, and not try to bring others down, especially your own. No doctor will go to allnurses.com to speak ill of his profession. I can understand the MDs trashing nurses, but a nurse? please. If you don't believe in your profession, then it's time you say goodbye and move on. The person has never said anything good about her profession and I see such as a traitor. Stop sabotaging.

Person, we're not trashing anyone. We are asking that as professionals, we each remain in our scope of practice, in what we were trained to do. If people who happen to be MDs are point out the fact that nursing is not doctoring, and that upsets you, that' your problem.

 

[DocVapor]

You can say that again.

I am just wondering, if you are truly a PhD candidate, why you think you have enough knowledge or experience with healthcare professions to be comfortable with labeling someone a traitor.

 

[Ost3oclast]

trai·tor
noun\ˈtrā-tər\
: a person who is not loyal enough to his or her peers to let them kill patients by fraudulently practicing above their training, education, and skill level

Exactly.

 

[maxxor]

Person, we're not trashing anyone. We are asking that as professionals, we each remain in our scope of practice, in what we were trained to do. If people who happen to be MDs are point out the fact that nursing is not doctoring, and that upsets you, that' your problem.

Nah, her problem is that a nurse agrees with us. Which says to me she takes that as a personal insult.

 

[DrCharlemagne]

Yes. And how do you reason DOCTOR?

Better than you.

You just love bagging on people, don't you, you pathetic mean little thing?

 

[Ost3oclast]

Yes. And how do you reason DOCTOR?

Any argument you make is flawed. If you truly aren't a nurse, you have no business talking about either profession because you literally have no experience and nothing to bring to the table regarding any of the issues on this thread.

 

[Ost3oclast]

It doesn't upset me. My point is that you don't betray your own. You can go ahead and make your points, that is not my business.

You "betray" your own if it means people live.....at least in our profession. Then again, I don't think anyone besides you here would consider that betraying your profession....more like holding an obligation to your sick patient (the whole do no harm thing)....again something you would know nothing about apparently.

 

[maxxor]

I don't have enough knowledge. Just concerned about the way people betray one another. I only need to read her post to know the kind of person he/she is, and I just advised. And why is my being a PhD candidate bothering you so much?

Because you demonstrate an immature belief system. It is difficult to believe someone capable of being in a PhD program would have the equivalent of a high school ethical system.

 

[boogaloo]

It doesn't upset me. My point is that you don't betray your own. You can go ahead and make your points, that is not my business.

Ah, yes. Blind loyalty. Instead of fighting for what is right, we should fight for whichever team we belong to. Great job, prestigious doctoral student. You represent your school well.

 

[maxxor]

But it happens that they find me worthy. or are you now better than the professors that admitted me?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Prove it.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

It would be a full time job today to dissect and diagnose every logical fallacy the Dr Not a Nurse is making, I guess we could tag team it though?

 

[maxxor]

It would be a full time job today to dissect and diagnose every logical fallacy the Dr Not a Nurse is making, I guess we could tag team it though?

Stop feeding the troll.

Look on Allnurses to see if they have linked this thread as evidence of their trolling.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

lol. So childish

More, or less childish than starting this mess with name calling? If you need directions, first word of your first post.

 

[DocVapor]

obsession. Everything shouldn't be about nurses you know.

Well, it's been fun, but sadly my lunch is over. I have to return to reality now.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I didn't talk about the issue. Just to remind her what she was doing. I don't fancy people who betray others. the only knowledge I have is from my family members and what I have read. That is why I don't wanna talk on the issue. You guys can talk all you can, that is what you do best. I am enjoying myself.

So you don't think people who practice any sort of healthcare outside their scope of practice is betraying anybody? Maybe the patient? You know, the only one who actually matters here. If anybody is being betrayed here its sick people. All that nurse has been doing is pointing that out...which is the opposite of what anybody in their right mind would be considered betraying. If your definition of "betraying" is to be applied, point it at people who think online nursing degrees mean they can practice at a physician level. Those people are the ones betraying others....and in the long run people will die.

And yes, I will keep talking. I'm bored. I just finished a subject NBME yesterday after cramming my face with CV/Pulm/Renal for 10 weeks.....you think you are the only one having fun here? Lol

 

[VisionaryTics]

obsession. Everything shouldn't be about nurses you know.

This thread is about nurses. The other 49 threads on the front page are not. You can go to one of those (actually, please don't).

 

[maxxor]

obsession. Everything shouldn't be about nurses you know.

You waddled into a thread debating RN/NP and MD/DO and are surprised that we think you are nurse after you criticize everyone in here for "hating on nurses".

 

[fab4fan]

"Dear" and "honey" talk is almost always from a nurse. Its their own special little way of attempting to talk down in the only way they know how.

I detest hearing fellow nurses calling patients "Dear," or "Honey," esp. if the patient is elderly. It's so disrespectful. Call the patient by his/her name.

 

[Ost3oclast]

LOL. So far, people are not dying from their services. Wait till you hear that the NP have started killing patients before you say who is right or wrong.

And you know this how?? I hear it all the time....luckily a doctor (a real one) has been there to catch their mistakes before patients started kicking off. I'm sure with your vast amount of health care experience you know all of this though.....oh....wait...

 

[VisionaryTics]

I detest ... fellow nurses ...

TRAITOR

 

[fab4fan]

I am not a nurse. And why are you so obsessed with nurses? I doubt they talk about you guys that often in their forum. You guys made me aware of allnurses with your links. I don't visit there often either. I stumbled on this topic and have been following it for sometime,because I thought the comments were interesting. Until I came upon the traitor.

"Dun dun DUN!"

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

obsession. Everything shouldn't be about nurses you know.

No doubt, everything should be about nurse traitors. I want to hear more about traitors.

 

[fab4fan]

TRAITOR

LOL. I suppose, following her logic, I am also a traitor because even though I live near Philly, I have been a Yankees fan for several years.

(If that doesn't bring out some haters, nothing else will!)

 

[boogaloo]

LOL. So far, people are not dying from their services. Wait till you hear that the NP have started killing patients before you say who is right or wrong.

That's not the point. Maybe I should have been more clear; you should fight for what you believe is right, not fight for the team in which you belong. According to you, fab should not be "betraying" her profession solely because she is a nurse herself, even if she strongly disagrees with their philosophy.

That sounds a lot like when I lost a friend in third grade because I wouldn't lie for him. You're operating at a third grade level right now, doctoral student. It's embarrassing that one can get so far in education yet still lack maturity in logic and critical thinking skills. I hope you will realize how immature you sound and reevaluate yourself.

 

[Gifted Hands]

I think specialists make too much money.

TRAITOR! I'm betraying my own people! How dare I have an opinion or think for myself.

See how idiotic that sounds?

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Edit: Here there be trolls

 

[tarheel1408]

This thread will probably get closed if this quibble continues. Maybe that was the goal all along?

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Dammit

Shame

:troll:

 

[syma]

TRAITOR. Talking ill about your profession does not make you a better person. It also does not make you the doctor's friend. That you feel inadequate as a nurse does not mean that others feel the same way. I have noticed how you bring down your profession just to belong here. But my dear, you don't belong here. So stop and fight for the profession that made you who you are. If you are not happy being a nurse, then you can go to medical school, that way, you wouldn't have to betray the profession anyway. Just tired of your posts.

That is funny. That is the same advice I would give to a nurse trying to do the job of a doctor.

 

[Siggy]

TRAITOR. Talking ill about your profession does not make you a better person. It also does not make you the doctor's friend. That you feel inadequate as a nurse does not mean that others feel the same way. I have noticed how you bring down your profession just to belong here. But my dear, you don't belong here. So stop and fight for the profession that made you who you are. If you are not happy being a nurse, then you can go to medical school, that way, you wouldn't have to betray the profession anyway. Just tired of your posts.

 

[fab4fan]

I like this:

"Any sufficiently advanced troll is indistinguishable from a genuine kook."

 

[Siggy]

Edit: Here there be trolls

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

LOL. I suppose, following her logic, I am also a traitor because even though I live near Philly, I have been a Yankees fan for several years.

(If that doesn't bring out some haters, nothing else will!)

There are some crimes for which there can be no forgiveness. This is one.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

 

[MedWonk]

I don't have enough knowledge. Just concerned about the way people betray one another. I only need to read her post to know the kind of person he/she is, and I just advised. And why is my being a PhD candidate bothering you so much?

No s***.

I am currently a doctoral student in one of the prestigious universities here in US. And no, i am not in DNP program. I didn't expect anything different from your reactions. You all get so emotional when it comes to NP issue. It's so funny to read your comments. I read them for fun, until I came across the traitor. You guys should continue with the discussion. Ignore me please. I have made my point.

I wasn't aware the University of Phoenix is now considered prestigious.

 

[Gifted Hands]

No s***.



I wasn't aware the University of Phoenix is now considered prestigious.

Burn

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Modz, Ban Hammer, please.

 

[Gifted Hands]

As we were saying...

Don't mind the troll. If you don't feed it, it dies

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

As we were saying...

Hire PAs and don't train NPs?

 

[Anastomoses]

Like I said earlier. I visit once in a while when I have the time just to amuse myself. I love both professions and feel you should make healthy argument. and not try to run the other down.

I have nothing against your basic position. I have seen many people post here about how awful it is that doctors are betraying the profession. So, this is a common attitude.

And I admit that this NP topic gets SDNers hot and bothered fast.

I would like you to admit that it was unreasonable to type "traitor" in all caps to shame someone who has merely been expressing her sincere dismay at nurses treating patients independently and has given corroborating evidence of that position. That's being a traitor? It's a profession that is trying to be no longer what she believes in. In fact, I'd argue that the NP group aren't really nurses but attempting to be pseudodoctors. That's not her profession at all, is it?

 

[Arkangeloid]

I like this:

"Any sufficiently advanced troll is indistinguishable from a genuine kook."

You rang?

To quote Thresh from LoL: "Me? Mad? Hah, quite likely!"

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

I have nothing against your basic position. I have seen many people post here about how awful it is that doctors are betraying the profession. So, this is a common attitude.

And I admit that this NP topic gets SDNers hot and bothered fast.

Ok, Ms. Administration. TRAITOR!

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Must.Resist.Urge....


:troll:

 

[maxxor]

In fact, I'd argue that the NP group aren't really nurses but attempting to be pseudodoctors. That's not her profession at all, is it?

The term is Noctor.

 

[Anastomoses]

Ok. I shouldn't have called her a traitor. Wrong choice of word. But I used the word because I didn't know how else to qualify how she behaves here. I feel she should express herself in their nurses forum and not here. Besides, all her posts about her colleagues (both nurses and NPs) have been negative, and I feel it is inappropriate. she shouldn't treat her profession that way no matter what. Sorry about that.

Fair enough. But I'd like you to consider this: Doctors and nurses are on one team. NPs are another team. fab4fun belongs to our team. Is that okay?

 

[MedWonk]

keep guessing

It wasn't a guess. It was a well-informed answer commensurate with your apparent lack of intelligence.

 

[MedWonk]

Ok. I shouldn't have called her a traitor. Wrong choice of word. But I used the word because I didn't know how else to qualify how she behaves here. I feel she should express herself in their nurses forum and not here. Besides, all her posts about her colleagues (both nurses and NPs) have been negative, and I feel it is inappropriate. she shouldn't treat her profession that way no matter what. Sorry about that.

Nurses aren't children. They're adults. If she feels the direction her profession is headed in does a disservice to the patients she cares for, then it is her right and ethical obligation to speak up. Apparently you fear hurt feelings more than hurt patients, and it is what makes you wholly unqualified for participation in this discussion. If you would like something more your speed, hSDN is just up top.