NYU probably just became the most competitive MD school in the country

[radsisrad]

NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Faux]

Wonder if the other schools follow suit.

And those who are like, 4th year students, will their tuition be covered from the following years?

 

[PhillyMed777]

Wow thats amazing. Congrats to the future med students who acquire these spots.

 

[whoknows2012]

I was thinking the same thing too. Just read the article. Pretty awesome to see and in my opinion 10 yrs down the line we’ll be able to see what if any impacts this had on career choice.

 

[kb1900]

feelsbadman.jpg

 

[Psai]

Haters: I still don't think NYU is top ten

 

[Newyawk]

Every current student gets it going forward

 

[hardpecs]

If I listen very, very closely in the distance I can hear libertarians cheering "the free market fixed it"

 

[evilbooyaa]

So all future NYU students should all go into low-paying and/or primary care fields, now, right? Since they dont have all that debt? And those that go into specialties are money grubbers? /s

 

[Amba]

I turned down NYU 5 years ago because my projected debt was >$320K at graduation. What a difference a few years makes.

 

[TakotsuboOkazaki]

Kudos to NYU. Someone had to take a step in the right direction.

Not sure if free tuition at all schools is likely, but if we can start seeing reductions/reimbursements that’s a start.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Still not a real top 10

 

[Psai]

I turned down NYU 5 years ago because my projected debt was >$320K at graduation. What a difference a few years makes.

How pissed would you be if you missed out on 320k by one year? Especially if you were in the three year program.

 

[LutGholein]

This is a game changer. I’m not even mad.

I’m interested to see if that actually changes the the specialties that are pursued in the coming years— is it truly fiscal or is there more to it. Probably a bit of both.

 

[theKingLT]

How pissed would you be if you missed out on 320k by one year? Especially if you were in the three year program.

I'm pretty sure they're applying it to current students so if you were one year early then it would just mean one year of tuition instead of 4

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Meanwhile...NYU dental students will continue to graduate owing $500,000 to $600,000.

Big Hoss

 

[Newyawk]

Imagine the students who turned down NYU this year.... must be kicking themselves hard

 

[DokterMom]

This is a game changer. I’m not even mad.

I’m interested to see if that actually changes the the specialties that are pursued in the coming years— is it truly fiscal or is there more to it. Probably a bit of both.

So you'd owe next to nothing - that helps.
But still - would you rather make $200K or $500K?

 

[PickleRick19]

That's awesome, probably not going to drastically shift people towards primary care but removes the debt burden from the decision

 

[Newyawk]

I turned down NYU for another Top 3 with 200k in debt and I just want to cry

At least you got the nice weather

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Not to be a hater, NYU was a dream school for me that wasn't even remotely possible to obtain, but I don't think this will cause a push for primary care. I mean come on with the name NYU and the opportunities the school provides for those students, they can match anywhere. As someone above said, would you rather make 200k or 500k?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Does this mean that NYU aggressively recruits candidates interested in primary care and research now (more so than before)?

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Article says it was announced at the first year's white coat. Can you imagine how excited they must have been?

 

[IMreshopeful]

Does this mean that NYU aggressively recruits candidates interested in primary care and research now (more so than before)?

Come on now. Every medical school applicant lies about being interested in primary care or doing academics or doing underserved work.

Kudos to NYU - hopefully other schools will follow suit. But they’re in for a shock if they think this will change students’ career aspirations. Those gunners who enter knowing they want to do ortho/NSG/derm/plastics aren’t going to magically go into primary care now lol

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Even 4.0 GPAs and a 528 MCAT score will not be competitive enough!

 

[FindersFee5]

Imagine the students who turned down NYU this year.... must be kicking themselves hard

Current M2 who turned it down last year. Just trying to tell myself that I'm happy where I am, I'm happy where I am, I'm happy where I am... just maybe not 150k happy.

 

[whoknows2012]

Article says it was announced at the first year's white coat. Can you imagine how excited they must have been?

Check twitter for videos. It was really cool TBH. And to the above poster discussing this not changing career paths; I think your view of medicine is way too naive/and or pessimistic. Even within a speciality people make financial decisions to be able to provide for a family. Also while I don’t expect 90% of the class to go into primary care, I wouldn’t be surprised if this moves the dial a bit. We’ll see what happens (coming from a PGY6 perspective, for reference)

 

[PickleRick19]

Not to be a hater, NYU was a dream school for me that wasn't even remotely possible to obtain, but I don't think this will cause a push for primary care. I mean come on with the name NYU and the opportunities the school provides for those students, they can match anywhere. As someone above said, would you rather make 200k or 500k?

While everyone would rather make 500k, some people just love IM/FM and don't want the lifestyle of the surgical specialties/superspecialized fields that pay more. I'm going to be the full $300k in debt and am applying to FM this year even though I have the scores/grades to do something more competitive because I can't see myself doing anything else. Some people aren't like me though and opt for a better paying field they like less (or hate) than IM/FM just because they're worried about their debt. Sure, it might not cause a huge shift in specialty choice, but it still helps people who like primary care justify their choice

 

[Newyawk]

This decision was clearly much more than just primary care incentivizing. If they wanted to do that they wouldve just made a retroactive pay-back scholarship. This is as much to support the nyu name and reputation as it is for any moral reason.

 

[theKingLT]

Article says it was announced at the first year's white coat. Can you imagine how excited they must have been?

I really hope they went all out for the reveal. Like letters hidden under the seats Oprah style giveaway

 

[zero0]

Wonder if this has anything to do with that recent back-to-back NYU med student and resident suicides...

Either way, good on them. Medical education costs are currently bordering on predatory and this sets a precedent for other schools to hopefully follow... and a great way for DO schools to drastically improve the quality of their applicant pool

 

[Goro]

Wonder if this has anything to do with that recent back-to-back NYU med student and resident suicides...

Either way, good on them. Medical education costs are currently bordering on predatory and this sets a precedent for other schools to hopefully follow... and a great way for DO schools to drastically improve the quality of their applicant pool

Except we don't have those massive endowments, nor massive research indirects.

 

[Goro]

So med students, out of curiosity, if you had a free ride through med school, would you do Primary Care?

We'll know in 2023 if NYU's experiment yields results!

 

[Psai]

I turned down NYU for another Top 3 with 200k in debt and I just want to cry

Yeah I'd cry too if I was stuck with attending Harvard Medical School

 

[RNthenDoc]

So med students, out of curiosity, if you had a free ride through med school, would you do Primary Care?

We'll know in 2023 if NYU's experiment yields results!

**** yes.

I would have gone D.O. instead of MD if KCU or DMU had offered me a full ride, or even just a sizeable scholarship.

As it is, not only were they *much* more expensive to begin with, I also got a small scholarship to my state MD. It’s not very hard to see why they have lower matriculant stats when you see situations like mine.

 

[vm26]

What about other expenses (housing, health insurance etc)?...I graduated from a state med school in 2007, would guesstimate that tuition was about 35% of total 168K loan I took out

 

[RNthenDoc]

What about other expenses (housing, health insurance etc)?...I graduated from a state med school in 2007, would guesstimate that tuition was about 35% of total 168K loan I took out

Tuition is a much higher portion of the COA now.

Also, you were spending 30k/year on living expenses in 2003?! You must have been coastal, right?

 

[Newyawk]

What about other expenses (housing, health insurance etc)?...I graduated from a state med school in 2007, would guesstimate that tuition was about 35% of total 168K loan I took out

Just tuition

 

[vm26]

Tuition is a much higher portion of the COA now.

Also, you were spending 30k/year on living expenses in 2003?! You must have been coastal, right?

Yes NY

 

[Kgizzle]

But dat cost of livin doe

 

[Stagg737]

So you'd owe next to nothing - that helps.
But still - would you rather make $200K or $500K?

I'd rather make $200k doing something I love than $500k doing something I hate, which is something that some people don't have the privilege of doing if they have high enough debt.

If I owed nothing I would have no problem taking a massive pay cut to do what I love, as $200k is still a huge salary compared to most people anyway. If I'm graduating with $300k+ in debt, the prospect of being able to get out of debt before I'm 50 and retire before I'm 70 changes that equation quite a bit though. Especially if I were planning on having a family and sending my kids to college (which will easily be as expensive as med school in 18 years if rates of inflation continue at their current rates).

 

[Treebeard]

An apartment in Manhattan for a year is still more than my entire yearly cost of attendance...

 

[TRPMinus]

There is no goddamn way that this translates into more students going into primary care. The current M2 class has a mean MCAT of 520 and their average step scores will probably be close to 250. Also, 38% of the graduating class was debt free. So, basically what happened was NYU decided to give rich kids who aren't going to go into primary care a free medical education. Nice I guess but it seems misplaced. If they really wanted to help they should have given it to people that want to do primary care from the get-go, whether they are at NYU or another school.

 

[whoknows2012]

There is no goddamn way that this translates into more students going into primary care. The current M2 class has a mean MCAT of 520 and their average step scores will probably be close to 250. Also, 38% of the graduating class was debt free. So, basically what happened was NYU decided to give rich kids who aren't going to go into primary care a free medical education. Nice I guess but it seems misplaced. If they really wanted to help they should have given it to people that want to do primary care from the get-go, whether they are at NYU or another school.

A lot of assumptions here. What level of schooling/training are you?

I can guarantee you people make specialty decisions based on finances. I can’t guarantee it’ll make a difference at NYU but I can tell you based on my vast experience with med students residents fellows and attendings from all walks of life in different specialties, this would matter. I suspect it’ll be a small difference but it remains to be seen. Talking about mcat scores and step 1’s is irrelevant.

 

[WedgeDawg]

So med students, out of curiosity, if you had a free ride through med school, would you do Primary Care?

We'll know in 2023 if NYU's experiment yields results!

No, I wouldn't.

I don't think this is to incentivize primary care, I think it's to remove debt as a burden that affects career choice. There are plenty of non-primary care fields that don't pay very well that people may otherwise consider, and then academics is a 40-60% salary cut, especially starting out. It may incentivize people to take more academic jobs after residency/fellowships, it may alleviate the debt burden for people that wanted to pursue primary care, who knows.

I went to medical school not wanting to do primary care and I would pick the field I am going into with 200k debt (or more) over primary care with 0k debt. Others may not. This just gives people the freedom of choice.

 

[TRPMinus]

A lot of assumptions here. What level of schooling/training are you?

I can guarantee you people make specialty decisions based on finances. I can’t guarantee it’ll make a difference at NYU but I can tell you based on my vast experience with med students residents fellows and attendings from all walks of life in different specialties, this would matter. I suspect it’ll be a small difference but it remains to be seen. Talking about mcat scores and step 1’s is irrelevant.

M2. Not really much assumption with the numbers. NYU had an average step 1 of 246 two years ago and given that they recently decided to raise their avg MCAT to 520, it follows that their step scores will likely approach 250 if not surpass it. MCAT and Step scores are very much relevant. You're talking about medical students who are the cream of the crop and extremely driven people. I don't think I'm stepping out on a limb to say that these people are probably more likely to pursue subspecialty training that leads them away from primary care. I understand that finances definitely make a difference to people, and hopefully there are some at NYU that choose primary care due to this influence. I think it will be small, however. I think someone said above that it's like "Congratulations, your med school is paid for. Now would you like to earn 200k or 500k?" For a lot of people I think that expected lifetime earnings is going to have a larger impact on specialty choice than medical school debt.

For clarification, I think that it would be awesome if they used the money to support ONLY people going into primary care. I'm interested in more lucrative specialties and wouldn't consider myself to be in need of a full ride scholarship compared to someone interested in pediatrics.

 

[whoknows2012]

M2. Not really much assumption with the numbers. NYU had an average step 1 of 246 two years ago and given that they recently decided to raise their avg MCAT to 520, it follows that their step scores will likely approach 250 if not surpass it. MCAT and Step scores are very much relevant. You're talking about medical students who are the cream of the crop and extremely driven people. I don't think I'm stepping out on a limb to say that these people are probably more likely to pursue subspecialty training that leads them away from primary care. I understand that finances definitely make a difference to people, and hopefully there are some at NYU that choose primary care due to this influence. I think it will be small, however. I think someone said above that it's like "Congratulations, your med school is paid for. Now would you like to earn 200k or 500k?" For a lot of people I think that expected lifetime earnings is going to have a larger impact on specialty choice than medical school debt.

For clarification, I think that it would be awesome if they used the money to support ONLY people going into primary care. I'm interested in more lucrative specialties and wouldn't consider myself to be in need of a full ride scholarship compared to someone interested in pediatrics.

Expected lifetime earnings has an impact on specialty choice. But not as much as you’re leading on. I’m sorry, I’ve experienced it and ultimately many, far from everyone I realize, but many choose specialty based on their interest not future earnings

 

[DoctwoB]

A lot of assumptions here. What level of schooling/training are you?

I can guarantee you people make specialty decisions based on finances. I can’t guarantee it’ll make a difference at NYU but I can tell you based on my vast experience with med students residents fellows and attendings from all walks of life in different specialties, this would matter. I suspect it’ll be a small difference but it remains to be seen. Talking about mcat scores and step 1’s is irrelevant.

Of course they make specialty decisions based on finances. But think about it from a economics standpoint. Having debt doesn’t really change the equation all that much, earning more is still earning more. Before this change, someone with 200k in debt could choose between making 200k in primary care or 400k in derm. Taking loans into account that probably comes to a real world choice of 150k vs 350k. Someone with the same choice without loans would look at it as 200k vs 400k. Either way, you choose primary care if the choice carries a benefit to you if over 200k/year.

The only way that really changes the calculus is if you have a threshold approach to income, meaning you feel you need a certain amount for happiness and anything above has significantly less utility. Otherwise people will generally act as rational beings and choose what they were going to choose anyways.

 

[TRPMinus]

Of course they make specialty decisions based on finances. But think about it from a economics standpoint. Having debt doesn’t really change the equation all that much, earning more is still earning more. Before this change, someone with 200k in debt could choose between making 200k in primary care or 400k in derm. Taking loans into account that probably comes to a real world choice of 150k vs 350k. Someone with the same choice without loans would look at it as 200k vs 400k. Either way, you choose primary care if the choice carries a benefit to you if over 200k/year.

The only way that really changes the calculus is if you have a threshold approach to income, meaning you feel you need a certain amount for happiness and anything above has significantly less utility. Otherwise people will generally act as rational beings and choose what they were going to choose anyways.

Exactly

 

[TRPMinus]

Expected lifetime earnings has an impact on specialty choice. But not as much as you’re leading on. I’m sorry, I’ve experienced it and ultimately many, far from everyone I realize, but many choose specialty based on their interest not future earnings

I think maybe we misunderstood each other. I get that people choose based on interest and that's how I'm going to pick for sure. I just think that expected earnings is probably a larger factor for people than medical school debt accumulated, at least up to a point. Something like : Specialty interest>expected salary>medical school debt in terms of importance. Again, don't think that free tuition is going to do much for their primary care numbers, if that was even the point.