OB difficulty

[JSTAR04]

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How difficult is it to get into a OB residency. Is it like internal medicine closer to dermo or in the middle of both. What is the average age of a resident. I heard the average med student is 23. I would assume the average resident is 27. But how many finish med school in 4 years?

 

[DrMom]

moving to pre-allo

The residency forums are for those applying to residencies, in the residencies, or out in practice.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

How difficult is it to get into a OB residency. Is it like internal medicine closer to dermo or in the middle of both. What is the average age of a resident. I heard the average med student is 23. I would assume the average resident is 27. But how many finish med school in 4 years?

OB/GYN is one of the primary care residencies, and I do not believe they are particularly competitive. Of course, every specialty has residencies that are more competitive than others within the specialty. Most people are in their late 20s when they begin residency, but the average age of first year med students is increasing, so expect that the average age of interns will do the same. Most med students finish in four years. Those who take longer may have been in a combined degree program (MD/PhD, MD/MPH, MD/MBA, etc.), have taken an extra year for non-degree research, took a year off because of childbirth or illness, or were required to repeat a year due to inadequate academic performance.

 

[JSTAR04]

good to know 250k is not bad at all what would you say is the most common specialty that med students usually end up in

 

[TheMightySmiter]

good to know 250k is not bad at all what would you say is the most common specialty that med students usually end up in

The most common is internal medicine. And please start using some punctuation!!

 

[diehardobgyn]

OB/GYN is one of the primary care residencies, and I do not believe they are particularly competitive. Of course, every specialty has residencies that are more competitive than others within the specialty. Most people are in their late 20s when they begin residency, but the average age of first year med students is increasing, so expect that the average age of interns will do the same. Most med students finish in four years. Those who take longer may have been in a combined degree program (MD/PhD, MD/MPH, MD/MBA, etc.), have taken an extra year for non-degree research, took a year off because of childbirth or illness, or were required to repeat a year due to inadequate academic performance.

This is not necessarily true. OB/GYN is not considered by all to be a primary care specialty. There are some of the primary care loans/programs that do not consider it a primary care specialty and therefore will not pay off your loans if you go into it. Also, OB/GYN is a surgical specialty and it is generally more competitive than the primary care specialties though not as competitive as derm/ortho/ect. This past cycle seemed to be particularly competitive and most programs received a lot more applications than the previous years.

 

[LizzyM]

This is not necessarily true. OB/GYN is not considered by all to be a primary care specialty. There are some of the primary care loans/programs that do not consider it a primary care specialty and therefore will not pay off your loans if you go into it. Also, OB/GYN is a surgical specialty and it is generally more competitive than the primary care specialties though not as competitive as derm/ortho/ect. This past cycle seemed to be particularly competitive and most programs received a lot more applications than the previous years.

I think that OB-GYN started being classified as "primary care" when HMOs started requiring referrals from primary care providers to obtain specialty care. Many women wanted a primary care relationship with the physician they saw most often. On the other hand, in my experience, some GYN physicians didn't want to deal with bread and butter issues of primary care and would refer the most mundane problems to other specialists.

 

[235009]

This is not necessarily true. OB/GYN is not considered by all to be a primary care specialty. There are some of the primary care loans/programs that do not consider it a primary care specialty and therefore will not pay off your loans if you go into it. Also, OB/GYN is a surgical specialty and it is generally more competitive than the primary care specialties though not as competitive as derm/ortho/ect. This past cycle seemed to be particularly competitive and most programs received a lot more applications than the previous years.

According to the last charting outcomes ob seems to be one of the least competitive specialties with average step 1 score lower than internal medicine. OB seems to be falling out of favor because it has one of the worst lifestyles.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I guess I was defining primary care fairly broadly to include FM, IM, EM, psych, OB/GYN. I could easily be wrong.

 

[JSTAR04]

Explain the lifestyle of an Ob. What's so bad about it?

 

[PTPoeny]

Explain the lifestyle of an Ob. What's so bad about it?

Babies tend to come out at all times of day and night. Babies also get stuck and stop coming out at all times of day and night. Therefore as an OB attending you will have to work nights and weekends. I saw at least one attending every single night I was on night float on OB (frequently several different attendings multiple times each), that doesn't happen in most other specialties unless you are working a night shift.

 

[dally1025]

Explain the lifestyle of an Ob. What's so bad about it?

and the malpractice insurance is the highest of any specialty

 

[username456789]

Also, OB/GYN is a surgical specialty

Oh boy. This statement is gonna ruffle a lot of feathers.

 

[username456789]

Explain the lifestyle of an Ob. What's so bad about it?

You have to work with other OB/Gyn docs.

(Only half kidding!)

 

[235788]

This is not necessarily true. OB/GYN is not considered by all to be a primary care specialty. There are some of the primary care loans/programs that do not consider it a primary care specialty and therefore will not pay off your loans if you go into it. Also, OB/GYN is a surgical specialty and it is generally more competitive than the primary care specialties though not as competitive as derm/ortho/ect. This past cycle seemed to be particularly competitive and most programs received a lot more applications than the previous years.

lol wut?

 

[LizzyM]

lol wut?

Uteruses don't remove themselves, ya' know.

 

[username456789]

Uteruses don't remove themselves, ya' know.

Neither do moles (halo nevi notwithstanding), but I don't go around saying we dermatologists are a surgical specialty.

 

[kpcrew]

Explain the lifestyle of an Ob. What's so bad about it?

55 million dollar settlements

 

[Sandstorm]

55 million dollar settlements

+1. Wrongful death and wrongful birth suits. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[typicalindian]

Don't OB's get sued the most?

 

[typicalindian]

I guess I was defining primary care fairly broadly to include FM, IM, EM, psych, OB/GYN. I could easily be wrong.

"if you want to go into primary care while making a lot more money, do EM." - EM physician I shadowed.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Neither do moles (halo nevi notwithstanding), but I don't go around saying we dermatologists are a surgical specialty.

Yeah, but isnt most mohs surgery done in the office, not under anesthesia in the or?

 

[medhawk1]

Neither do moles (halo nevi notwithstanding), but I don't go around saying we dermatologists are a surgical specialty.

Are you really trying to say removing a mole and performing a hysterectomy are equivalent? I removed moles as med student in an office setting, it takes a bit more training to remove internal organs. Not to mention the whole gyn onc side of things. Try telling them they aren't surgeons.

 

[KnuxNole]

You have to work with other OB/Gyn docs.

(Only half kidding!)

 

[medhawk1]

How difficult is it to get into a OB residency. Is it like internal medicine closer to dermo or in the middle of both. What is the average age of a resident. I heard the average med student is 23. I would assume the average resident is 27. But how many finish med school in 4 years?

I would also mention that difficulty is also based largely on where you want to go to residency. Getting into to a community OB residency program somewhere is likely going to be a lot less competitive then if you want to go to a top tier academic institution. Though this is true of most of the "less competitive" specialties.

 

[username456789]

Are you really trying to say removing a mole and performing a hysterectomy are equivalent?

No, and I would appreciate if you left the strawman arguments at home. I'm saying that just because a residency has a few surgical components to it does not a surgical specialty make.

Gyn onc guys are pretty much the only OB/Gyn types who can truly claim to be a "surgical" field.

 

[username456789]

Yeah, but isnt most mohs surgery done in the office, not under anesthesia in the or?

Yes, but please see my post above this for explanation. The point was not that derm procedures were the equivalent of hysterectomies. The point was that just because a specialty involves occasional procedures does not mean it qualifies as a "surgical specialty."

Any surgeon would laugh at the idea of OB/Gyns calling themselves "surgeons" (unless we're talking Gyn Onc).

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

55 million dollar settlements

You beat me to it. For those of you that don't get the reference, Kpcrew is referring to a recent $55 million awarded to a couple courtesy of Hopkins. I also think it's crazy that they are responsible for the health of the child years after birth. Some shady lawyer comes along and cooks up some nefarious story about the evil, negligent doctor and most people just settle out of court even though they probably weren't at fault.

Yes, but please see my post above this for explanation. The point was not that derm procedures were the equivalent of hysterectomies. The point was that just because a specialty involves occasional procedures does not mean it qualifies as a "surgical specialty."

Any surgeon would laugh at the idea of OB/Gyns calling themselves "surgeons" (unless we're talking Gyn Onc).

Exactly. Gastro, for example, can include quite a bit of procedural stuff but gastroenterologists are not referred to as surgeons.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Yes, but please see my post above this for explanation. The point was not that derm procedures were the equivalent of hysterectomies. The point was that just because a specialty involves occasional procedures does not mean it qualifies as a "surgical specialty."

Any surgeon would laugh at the idea of OB/Gyns calling themselves "surgeons" (unless we're talking Gyn Onc).

By that line of thinking one could also say that ent, optho, and urology arent surgical subspecialties. I hate to contradict a physician, but the american college of surgeons recognizes both general and gyn onc surgery as a surgical specialty. Perhaps they are the least surgical. Or least skilled of the surgical specialties, but a obgyn can spend all of their time operating in a full or. There is a clear differenc in skill set in this manner when comparing them to most mohs surgeons, radiologists during lumbar punctures under flouro, or gi docs doing endoscopies.

 

[PTPoeny]

I think it would be hard to define urogyn as anything but a surgical specialty.

 

[mmmcdowe]

You beat me to it. For those of you that don't get the reference, Kpcrew is referring to a recent $55 million awarded to a couple courtesy of Hopkins. I also think it's crazy that they are responsible for the health of the child years after birth. Some shady lawyer comes along and cooks up some nefarious story about the evil, negligent doctor and most people just settle out of court even though they probably weren't at fault.




Exactly. Gastro, for example, can include quite a bit of procedural stuff but gastroenterologists are not referred to as surgeons.

There is a clear difference in my mind between removing someones reproductive organs and sticking a camera up someones pooper.

 

[Sandstorm]

There is a clear difference in my mind between removing someones reproductive organs and sticking a camera up someones pooper.

...aren't both intensely pleasurable though?

 

[KnuxNole]

Yes, but please see my post above this for explanation. The point was not that derm procedures were the equivalent of hysterectomies. The point was that just because a specialty involves occasional procedures does not mean it qualifies as a "surgical specialty."

Any surgeon would laugh at the idea of OB/Gyns calling themselves "surgeons" (unless we're talking Gyn Onc).

They should come to the Gyn team where I rotated, where the attendings saw themselves as top of the notch surgeons, who all women in the community look up to as successful power women. Sadly I'm not making this stuff up, power trips galore 😱

 

[username456789]

I look forward to the looks many of you receive the first time you mention those "OB/gyn surgeons" on any type of surgical rotation.

 

[DrBowtie]

Since the OBGYN residents aren't in the surgical intern rotation or call pool like ENT, Uro etc they don't get the same respect from the surgeons.

 

[Sandstorm]

There is a clear difference in my mind between removing someones reproductive organs and sticking a camera up someones pooper.

Personally, I define true talent as the "surgeon/non-surgeon" who can remove reproductive organs while at the same time sticking a camera up someone's "pooper"

 

[PTPoeny]

I look forward to the looks many of you receive the first time you mention those "OB/gyn surgeons" on any type of surgical rotation.

Personally, I spent significantly more time in the OR during my ob-gyn rotation than my general surgery rotation. And I got to do more suturing and first assists. While some of my experiences may have to do with when in the year I did the rotations, I have talked to other students that had similar experiences. Do you really expect medical students to see a specialty that gives them more OR time and more hands on experience in the OR than general surgery as non-surgical?

...And no, I am not stupid enough to mention any of this to my residents or attendings on surgical rotations.

 

[medhawk1]

No, and I would appreciate if you left the strawman arguments at home. I'm saying that just because a residency has a few surgical components to it does not a surgical specialty make.

Gyn onc guys are pretty much the only OB/Gyn types who can truly claim to be a "surgical" field.

Strawman arguments? Go back and read your original post, I hardly misrepresented your argument. I would say the urogyn's and the new maternal fetal surgery sub-specialty also meet your criteria to be surgeons. The ACGME requirement for OB/GYN residents to log a certain number of cases as primary surgeon also weakens your argument. You can try and argue a general OB who only does cesareans isn't a real surgeon, but you could say the same of a general surgeon who only does hernia repairs.

 

[username456789]

Strawman arguments? Go back and read your original post, I hardly misrepresented your argument.

The strawman comment was in reference to your first sentence asking me if I indeed thought mole removals and hysterectomies were "equivalent." That was not my claim, and clearly a hysterectomy is a much more complex procedure. Rather, my point was that a specialty which spends most of its time not doing surgery should not call itself a surgical specialty simply because of the "occasional" (and I use this word cautiously in reference to both derm and ob/gyn as the frequency can vary greatly) procedure.

 

[Mjolner]

What about all those psychiatric surgeons 😉

 

[Geekchick921]

and the malpractice insurance is the highest of any specialty

I thought it was second, but only to neurosurgeons.

Oh boy. This statement is gonna ruffle a lot of feathers.

I hate that statement. I see it get thrown around on online pregnancy/parenting groups from the more anti-physician people that call all OBs C-section happy and it always makes me think of that. Besides, it's always struck me as a pretty fair split between surgery and medicine... part of the reason why it interests me so much.