OD degree over-priced

[Ryan_eyeball]

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A sad story, but more and more a reality in post-optometric education. I'm glad I only graduated with around 110k in student loans, but looking back I could have done it around 90k if I would have lived cheaper. I agree that it's too over-priced, and often times I make too much to qualify for a student loan deduction at tax time. I graduated with the student loan interest was around less than 3%. I am VERY grateful to be able to put food on the table, but the OD is becoming less of a value every year.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/2009-05-12-student-loan-debt-bankruptcy_N.htm

Here is an Optometrist's story from the high priced optometric education


"ranmancali (0 friends, send message) wrote: 2d 8h ago
Here is my sad story...

I graduated from optometry school over three years ago...School loans $195,000. So far I have been able to keep up with the payments, most the time I pay more than the minimum, sometimes 500-1000 more. I have been paying for over three years... my balance now 187000. very disconcerning. My girlfriend of 6 years (who also went to optometry school) graduated with about 170K of debt. She signed a state contract that helped her pay for tuition, but has to practice in the state for so many years or else pay back the money.
So together we are close to 400,000 in debt. working in an oversaturated profession, earning low incomes compared to the schooling/training/debt, but make just enough so we cant write off any of the loan interest. I get no tax breaks (last year I paid over 35K in taxes, would be nice if some of that went to my loans) having to work 6 sometimes 7 days a week just to keep our heads above water, I have to keep up with continuing education, state licenses, malpractice etc none of it is cheap. Dont have money for a wedding, home, vacations and am having to live in a state just because we dont want to have to pay back more money.

If I did it all over again I would have never went to college and have been a waiter, bartender, mechanic, tow truck driver, anything. Much better quality of life and much more money in my pockets.
just venting.. sometimes life isnt fair."

 

[blazenmadison]

A sad story, but more and more a reality in post-optometric education. I'm glad I only graduated with around 110k in student loans, but looking back I could have done it around 90k if I would have lived cheaper. I agree that it's too over-priced, and often times I make too much to qualify for a student loan deduction at tax time. I graduated with the student loan interest was around less than 3%. I am VERY grateful to be able to put food on the table, but the OD is becoming less of a value every year.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/2009-05-12-student-loan-debt-bankruptcy_N.htm

Here is an Optometrist's story from the high priced optometric education


"ranmancali (0 friends, send message) wrote: 2d 8h ago
Here is my sad story...

I graduated from optometry school over three years ago...School loans $195,000. So far I have been able to keep up with the payments, most the time I pay more than the minimum, sometimes 500-1000 more. I have been paying for over three years... my balance now 187000. very disconcerning. My girlfriend of 6 years (who also went to optometry school) graduated with about 170K of debt. She signed a state contract that helped her pay for tuition, but has to practice in the state for so many years or else pay back the money.
So together we are close to 400,000 in debt. working in an oversaturated profession, earning low incomes compared to the schooling/training/debt, but make just enough so we cant write off any of the loan interest. I get no tax breaks (last year I paid over 35K in taxes, would be nice if some of that went to my loans) having to work 6 sometimes 7 days a week just to keep our heads above water, I have to keep up with continuing education, state licenses, malpractice etc none of it is cheap. Dont have money for a wedding, home, vacations and am having to live in a state just because we dont want to have to pay back more money.

If I did it all over again I would have never went to college and have been a waiter, bartender, mechanic, tow truck driver, anything. Much better quality of life and much more money in my pockets.
just venting.. sometimes life isnt fair."

Yea he is 'venting'. Sounds like he made some bad choices in his life. SCO graduates come out with an average 100k.

He probably went to a private undergrad instead of a state school. He also probably chose an optometry school with insane tuition (ie. NECO).

 

[Meibomian SxN]

.... but make just enough so we cant write off any of the loan interest. I get no tax breaks (last year I paid over 35K in taxes, would be nice if some of that went to my loans) having to work 6 sometimes 7 days a week just to keep our heads above water, I have to keep up with continuing education, state licenses, malpractice etc none of it is cheap. Dont have money for a wedding, home, vacations and am having to live in a state just because we dont want to have to pay back more money.

If I did it all over again I would have never went to college and have been a waiter, bartender, mechanic, tow truck driver, anything. Much better quality of life and much more money in my pockets.
just venting.. sometimes life isnt fair."

I'm not an accountant but I highly doubt you can not write off ANY of the interest! I have to agree, your story is not sympathetic...

Waiter, truck driver? Well, take a weekend and shadow one of them and see how it feels in their shoes!

Or better yet, why not ask an Ophthalmologist how they feel with decreasing reimbursements for cataracts or the over-saturated LASIK field. Go and read other forums and see how much MORE schooling/residency other professions had to do and get paid hardly anything than they thought!

Imagine having Botox spa parties after hours for the superficial baby-boomers? Imagine being an OMD and doing tattoo removal just to "add a specialty" to pay the bills! Imagine paying $20,000 more in malpractice just to cover your LASIK premium and the Px numbers are dwindling? Imagine being sued for injections/surgeries because of unrealistic Px outcomes? Imagine chasing down every obese person trying to convince them to have weight loss surgery?

Flipping dials in the dark doesn't sound to bad now does it? Now go get some debt management and SMILE 😀

 

[JMU07]

SCO graduates come out with an average 100k.

I've always wondered how this is possible. If people are taking out loans ONLY for tuition - yes, that would be about 100k. But most students are single and are taking out loans for living expenses too which would push it much higher.

 

[qwopty99]

Not to sound cold-hearted or anything, but lots of folks end up with lots of debt and are managing to pay their debts off. If you're sitting on 190K in debt, you have to make some choices. That debt doesn't just go away by itself, and if you're grossing 100K/year in salary, that money has to be going somewhere.

 

[stonegoat]

I graduated with ~$170k of debt. I have been practicing 6 years and now have about $50k remaining. Honestly, between business expenses, mortgage, cost of living, taxes, etc....my student loans are the least of my financial worries. People are always bitching and complaining about tuition on this site. I don't get it. Even if you're $200k in debt I think it's still a good deal. What business can you "purchase" for $200k, and be virtually assured of making a 6-figure income from it (yeah KHE, I'm in Canada....no need to qualify that) ?? I can't think of any.

 

[blazenmadison]

I'm not trying to suggest ODs need to live like paupers in order to make ends meet, but if you're sitting on 190K in debt, you have to make some choices. That debt doesn't just go away by itself, and if you're grossing 100K/year in salary, that money has to be going somewhere.

👍

 

[KHE]

A sad story, but more and more a reality in post-optometric education. I'm glad I only graduated with around 110k in student loans, but looking back I could have done it around 90k if I would have lived cheaper. I agree that it's too over-priced, and often times I make too much to qualify for a student loan deduction at tax time. I graduated with the student loan interest was around less than 3%. I am VERY grateful to be able to put food on the table, but the OD is becoming less of a value every year.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/2009-05-12-student-loan-debt-bankruptcy_N.htm

Here is an Optometrist's story from the high priced optometric education


"ranmancali (0 friends, send message) wrote: 2d 8h ago
Here is my sad story...

I graduated from optometry school over three years ago...School loans $195,000. So far I have been able to keep up with the payments, most the time I pay more than the minimum, sometimes 500-1000 more. I have been paying for over three years... my balance now 187000. very disconcerning. My girlfriend of 6 years (who also went to optometry school) graduated with about 170K of debt. She signed a state contract that helped her pay for tuition, but has to practice in the state for so many years or else pay back the money.
So together we are close to 400,000 in debt. working in an oversaturated profession, earning low incomes compared to the schooling/training/debt, but make just enough so we cant write off any of the loan interest. I get no tax breaks (last year I paid over 35K in taxes, would be nice if some of that went to my loans) having to work 6 sometimes 7 days a week just to keep our heads above water, I have to keep up with continuing education, state licenses, malpractice etc none of it is cheap. Dont have money for a wedding, home, vacations and am having to live in a state just because we dont want to have to pay back more money.

If I did it all over again I would have never went to college and have been a waiter, bartender, mechanic, tow truck driver, anything. Much better quality of life and much more money in my pockets.
just venting.. sometimes life isnt fair."

This is a virtual impossibiliity.

If he's putting down an "extra" 500-1000 most of the time, then his principle should be much lower than what it is.

Even if he puts down $500 per month half the time (which is not most of the time) then that's an extra $3000 per year which over 3 years would be nine grand. So at the VERY LEAST, his principle should be down $9000, not $8000 and that's not including whatever principle payment is part of the actual loan payment, however small that might be.

Also, the student loan interest deduction phases out if your modified AGI is more than $70000 for a single filer. For someone to pay $35000 in taxes, they are making huge amounts of money. I can tell you that I made a multi six figure income last year and I paid a lot less than $35000 in taxes.

He bemoans his girlfriends debt as well, but then at the same time makes it sound like the state is paying it off becauase she's working in that state. So in effect, they only have $195k worth of debt (his) and if you want to count them as a couple, it's less than $100k each. That's not bad at all.

If this person is seriously desirous of being a waiter or a truck driver instead of an optometry, then I would respectfully submit that that person is a raging *****. At the very least, they need a session with a decent CPA and a financial planner. At worst, they need a lobotomy.

 

[IndianaOD]

I'm not an accountant but I highly doubt you can not write off ANY of the interest! I have to agree, your story is not sympathetic...

Waiter, truck driver? Well, take a weekend and shadow one of them and see how it feels in their shoes!

Or better yet, why not ask an Ophthalmologist how they feel with decreasing reimbursements for cataracts or the over-saturated LASIK field. Go and read other forums and see how much MORE schooling/residency other professions had to do and get paid hardly anything than they thought!

Imagine having Botox spa parties after hours for the superficial baby-boomers? Imagine being an OMD and doing tattoo removal just to "add a specialty" to pay the bills! Imagine paying $20,000 more in malpractice just to cover your LASIK premium and the Px numbers are dwindling? Imagine being sued for injections/surgeries because of unrealistic Px outcomes? Imagine chasing down every obese person trying to convince them to have weight loss surgery?

Flipping dials in the dark doesn't sound to bad now does it? Now go get some debt management and SMILE 😀

Yup, those Ophthalmologists are hurting bad. ALL of the local ones have houses on lakes worth over $1.2 million dollars. (I checked it out online, our county has a creepy system where you can find anyones real estate and appraised value).

There is not doubt about it. If I did it again I'd be a dentist.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

I did not live a lavish lifestyle in OD school. I had around 5k from undergrad (2002) in loans and around 105k from OD school (2006). I choose to live the final 2.5years in an apartment, because I didn't like living with room mates, and could study easier. Room mates would have saved money on utilities and rent. $250 less a month in rent and probably $250 less a month in utilities with the cost share of room mates. That could have saved $500 a month x 30 months = $15,000. The night clubs were not really my cup of tea. Direct tv and high speed internet were two things I splurged on having.

I was fortunate that I had my out of state tuition paid for, which essentially saved me around 64k in additional loans.

KHE was right about the phaseout for student loan interest. After your AGI is too much no deduction at all, but with most things there is a phaseout sliding scale.

For me paying off my student loans will be the last thing I do. There are no car loans, just my mortgage and student loans. I would rather concentrate on the mortgage since if I died, I believe, my wife would not be responsible for my student loans since I was the only one that signed.

My federal taxes last year were 39k, and state taxes 8k. I work 6 days a week 9am-6pm at the office, because of Dave Ramsey's plan to eliminate my debt. A great great read.

The whole educational costs are rising faster than any other sector IMHO. Student loans are not forgiven in bankruptcy filings hardly ever. I would suggest running numbers through a student loan calculator and figure what your loan payment might be when you get out of school. OD's are still making the same as some did back in 2000, or even 1995. You still see doc's advertise an eye exam $45/$75 at walmart's year after year. Yes, the OD degree get will get you a better lifestyle, but the cost is rising every year for that degree, and the income is not rising proportionally.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

.....The whole educational costs are rising faster than any other sector IMHO. Student loans are not forgiven in bankruptcy filings hardly ever. I would suggest running numbers through a student loan calculator and figure what your loan payment might be when you get out of school. OD's are still making the same as some did back in 2000, or even 1995. You still see doc's advertise an eye exam $45/$75 at walmart's year after year. Yes, the OD degree get will get you a better lifestyle, but the cost is rising every year for that degree, and the income is not rising proportionally.

True. And this phenomena is not just limited to Optometry. Many health professions are the same. For example med students pay much more in tuition and many of their specialties are dwindling in salary. I read recently where Cardio-Thoracics are not being paid as much now because of increased use of Interventional techniques done by specialty cardiologists! Imagine doing a 7-8 yr residency and not getting compensated correctly!!! OUCH! 😱

 

[IndianaOD]

True. And this phenomena is not just limited to Optometry. Many health professions are the same. For example med students pay much more in tuition and many of their specialties are dwindling in salary. I read recently where Cardio-Thoracics are not being paid as much now because of increased use of Interventional techniques done by specialty cardiologists! Imagine doing a 7-8 yr residency and not getting compensated correctly!!! OUCH! 😱

How is med school more expensive tuition wise? At IU the med students paid similar to the OD students (university graduate rate) and less equipment to buy. Don't most med residents make over $50k a year?

 

[Meibomian SxN]

How is med school more expensive tuition wise? At IU the med students paid similar to the OD students (university graduate rate) and less equipment to buy. Don't most med residents make over $50k a year?

Actually they are not similar, I just looked. Med students typically pay $10K more (you actually pay more as an OD student if you're a non-resident at IUP!).

The med students do have to buy additional equipment like an otoscope set and other misc.; whereas the equipment we buy we can actually continue to use in practice.

And yes the residents make like $50,000 and I think OD residents make $30,000; but if you calculate it by hours the OD residents put in far less time than MD residents and so they make a lot more. I hardly ever heard of a OD resident putting in ~80hr/wk schedules!

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

Actually they are not similar, I just looked. Med students typically pay $10K more (you actually pay more as an OD student if you're a non-resident at IUP!).

The med students do have to buy additional equipment like an otoscope set and other misc.; whereas the equipment we buy we can actually continue to use in practice.

And yes the residents make like $50,000 and I think OD residents make $30,000; but if you calculate it by hours the OD residents put in far less time than MD residents and so they make a lot more. I hardly ever heard of a OD resident putting in ~80hr/wk schedules!

An OD resident can also moonlight on the side to make some extra money. Some will pick up a Saturday or Sunday working at Walmart to help pay the bills that year.

 

[IndianaOD]

Actually they are not similar, I just looked. Med students typically pay $10K more (you actually pay more as an OD student if you're a non-resident at IUP!).

The med students do have to buy additional equipment like an otoscope set and other misc.; whereas the equipment we buy we can actually continue to use in practice.

And yes the residents make like $50,000 and I think OD residents make $30,000; but if you calculate it by hours the OD residents put in far less time than MD residents and so they make a lot more. I hardly ever heard of a OD resident putting in ~80hr/wk schedules!

Otoscope? heh. Couple hundred bucks and I bought one for OD school. An OD student buys much more equipment than a standard MD student.

I think any medical career is scary right now until we know what the liberals in the white house and congress are up to.

Hopefully some money will switch to the primary care docs and less to the specialists. An extra year or two of training should not triple or quadruple your income.

 

[aphistis]

Yup, those Ophthalmologists are hurting bad. ALL of the local ones have houses on lakes worth over $1.2 million dollars. (I checked it out online, our county has a creepy system where you can find anyones real estate and appraised value).

There is not doubt about it. If I did it again I'd be a dentist.

After accepting my first private practice position a couple weeks ago, I can confirm for you that dentistry is still doing just fine.

 

[blazenmadison]

There is not doubt about it. If I did it again I'd be a dentist.

What's stopping you? it's never too late to retake some science courses, take the DAT, and apply to dental school. And you can take plenty of loans if you dont want to live the student lifestyle again...because once you're a dentist you're going to be making sooo much money.

Make sure to drop by the pre-dental forums and get cracking on the DAT!!!

I'm half serious too. Being bitter about your chosen profession is not going to increase your life expectancy.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

What's stopping you? it's never too late to retake some science courses, take the DAT, and apply to dental school...

That would actually be interesting! Braces and glasses go hand in hand, sounds like nice $$$ 🙄; And you don't have to worry about this Board Certification fiasco anymore!

What would be the new specialty name? I propose Oculo-Oral Physicians(OOPs); maybe its a mistake LOL! 😉

 

[IndianaOD]

What's stopping you? it's never too late to retake some science courses, take the DAT, and apply to dental school. And you can take plenty of loans if you dont want to live the student lifestyle again...because once you're a dentist you're going to be making sooo much money.

Make sure to drop by the pre-dental forums and get cracking on the DAT!!!

I'm half serious too. Being bitter about your chosen profession is not going to increase your life expectancy.

No way I'm going back to school and taking all that pointless general science crap again.

Would be kind of cool to be a small town's eye doc and dentist! Lot of overhead there for sure!

I actually like what I do for my work, I don't like the extra BS that optometry has with it.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

No way I'm going back to school and taking all that pointless general science crap again.

Would be kind of cool to be a small town's eye doc and dentist! Lot of overhead there for sure!

I actually like what I do for my work, I don't like the extra BS that optometry has with it.

I agree. The vision plans have the extra BS that i cringe on everyday. So many people think that i.e. Eyemed, VSP. or Davis is medical eye insurance. I know I choose to take them (for another year or two), but I only seen maybe three or four Davis ones/ month.

I refuse to see diabetics on Eyemed, VSP, or Davis, and offer to bill their medical insurance instead. The problem is so many people have high deductible plans now, but if they raise a voice I suggest they just go to a mall.

 

[Tome]

A sad story, but more and more a reality in post-optometric education. I'm glad I only graduated with around 110k in student loans, but looking back I could have done it around 90k if I would have lived cheaper. I agree that it's too over-priced, and often times I make too much to qualify for a student loan deduction at tax time. I graduated with the student loan interest was around less than 3%. I am VERY grateful to be able to put food on the table, but the OD is becoming less of a value every year.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/2009-05-12-student-loan-debt-bankruptcy_N.htm

Here is an Optometrist's story from the high priced optometric education


"ranmancali (0 friends, send message) wrote: 2d 8h ago
Here is my sad story...

I graduated from optometry school over three years ago...School loans $195,000. So far I have been able to keep up with the payments, most the time I pay more than the minimum, sometimes 500-1000 more. I have been paying for over three years... my balance now 187000. very disconcerning. My girlfriend of 6 years (who also went to optometry school) graduated with about 170K of debt. She signed a state contract that helped her pay for tuition, but has to practice in the state for so many years or else pay back the money.
So together we are close to 400,000 in debt. working in an oversaturated profession, earning low incomes compared to the schooling/training/debt, but make just enough so we cant write off any of the loan interest. I get no tax breaks (last year I paid over 35K in taxes, would be nice if some of that went to my loans) having to work 6 sometimes 7 days a week just to keep our heads above water, I have to keep up with continuing education, state licenses, malpractice etc none of it is cheap. Dont have money for a wedding, home, vacations and am having to live in a state just because we dont want to have to pay back more money.

If I did it all over again I would have never went to college and have been a waiter, bartender, mechanic, tow truck driver, anything. Much better quality of life and much more money in my pockets.
just venting.. sometimes life isnt fair."

How some grad students overcome this: http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007...-graduate-students-on-welfare-is-it-right.htm

 

[dragon1761]

welcome to my world.