Official 2016 Rank Order List & "Help Me Rank" Thread

[notdeadyet]

Not_a_psychic: re: SLU vs. Kaweah Delta

I worked at Kaweah Delta for a while part-time (purely clinical, no interaction with residents). And I only know SLU by reputation.

Every residency program was new once. And there are programs that take off and programs that struggle a bit. Kaweah Delta has already gone through a fair bit of leadership changes and re-organization given they've only had three classes (I believe this is the third program director). I've worked with Dr. Hilty (not at Kaweah Delta) and he is a very good man, an excellent teacher, and is a good leader. I also have a lot of respect for Dr. Saadabadi (worked with him at Kaweah Delta). But Visalia is an extremely tough sell to people, so a lot of their staff live elsewhere, which means that if the job is not going well, it's very easy to jump ship because you don't live there. I'd be curious how many of the key leaders live in the Visalia area, as it would speak to their longevity.

Visalia is... Visalia. It's not a town I associate with being outdoorsy, but you're within an hour or so of some good trails in Sequoia National park. The town itself doesn't have much to offer and the air quality is pretty rough. It looks like you're from California, so you should have a good idea if you can tolerate the area. I think much of the decision would be based on how much you are risk averse. Kaweah Delta as it stands now with leadership has the chance of becoming a fair community program (assuming funding is there and stays there). Kaweah Delta also has a very real chance of changing radically in ways you can't anticipate based on funding or leadership. True of any program, but with KD, you've already seen three PDs over three classes, so there's more of a possible pattern. But again, Dr. Hilty knows how to run a psych program.

As for child fellowships in California, unless you have a real pull to UCLA, UCSF or Stanford, you'll be fine regardless of where you do residency. For the above three, Stanford > UCLA > UCSF are competitive regardless of where you went and it'll mostly be based on how well you did in residency rather than where you did it, if you're comparing KD vs. SLU (the latter is a better known program but KD will give you LORs from someone active in the California psych community).

Hope this helps.

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[caliclown5]

I have my number one, but the next few are up in the air. Any insight is appreciated.

Penn
Cambridge Health Alliance
Mount Sinai
Northwestern
University of Washington
UCSD

Thanks.

 

[Psychiatry246]

I think I touched on this earlier, but can anyone help me out with USC v UCLA/SFV v UCLA/Harbor?

USC - had an overall really good feeling from the day. The leadership seemed really down to earth and residents appreciated them, and I was impressed at how many residents showed up to the dinner and the lunch. They seemed to have a really close vibe with each other, and still demonstrated a wide variety of interests. Lots of paid vacation days. Lots of food paid for (could be good or bad). They do have an interim chair, but I got the sense that they were glad the old one is gone, and that may have been one of the sources of USC's iffy reputation for a while. I asked specific questions about how the program responded to concerns from the residents and they were able to answer me. My only cons, honestly, are the drive to Hawkins (I'd be commuting there 9 months out of my first two years) and the lack of variety in the medicine months (4 months inpatient wards or Peds, divided up however you want). What am I missing that make people still question the program?

UCLA-SFV - another really good vibe-from-the-residents type place. I am 50/50 on the constant driving to and from sites, especially at midday, but I do like all the sites that we saw. Light call schedule. Good psych ED experience. UCLA benefits. I was iffy on the PD, we had perhaps one of the most uninspired interviews on the trail, but he was still nice. The APD and the rest of the leadership were incredibly nice. Residents emphasized to me that they are happy and enjoy their jobs.

UCLA-Harbor - this is such a puzzle for me. For a long time I kept hearing about what a solid place this was to churn out great psychiatrists and that is definitely still the case that I hear. But I am basing my trepidation with the program almost entirely off feeling. They do seem to work really hard. The residents had a hint of tired in their eyes. I was not a fan of the facilities at all, and I feel really bad that that suddenly became a factor for me. Excellent moonlighting, of course. They seem to get really good at clinic, but I'm also a bit hesitant at the whole "Autonomy from day 1!" Kind of thing. The residents at the happy hour did seem close but, again, tired. I guess, like USC, I want to be enlightened on if I completely missed something about what puts this one in the upper half of the SoCal programs.

Thank you all! This forum has been immensely helpful.

I'm stuck in the Harbor-UCLA vs. USC dilemma too. UCLA-SFV is not as high for me because of the location(s). I also had a much better 'feel' from the USC residents and got the same sense you did from Harbor. USC has better facilities (though we didn't get to see all of Augustus Hawkins) and the residents seem friendlier/more close knit. USC also seems to have slightly better research options (pending how you could leverage the Harbor-UCLA connection) and more residents involved in committees and organized medicine. At Harbor they all noted that they worked very hard, but that it was 'tolerable'. Harbor residents seem to have much more autonomy and responsibility sooner in training. The culture at Harbor seems more dedicated to the county 'mission' whereas USC seems to more strongly support that residents can develop the experiences they want. That said, when I talk to people who have trained in LA for psychiatry they all note that Harbor is hands down the stronger program in terms of clinical training and exposure, as well, as reputation. I also feel that I am missing something and am unsure how the rank these two.

 

[Rogue Penguin]

Current HSS resident here (PGY4). Great impression, which I found to be accurate.

Regarding McLean, We actually get to spend several months there doing inpatient psychiatry, geriatric psychiatry, emergency psychiatry, ECT/TMS, child and adolescent psychiatry. There is ample opportunity to do research with faculty there. In addition, during your fourth year, you can easily set up electives at McLean tailored to your specific interests. Several of our residents have also been a part of the editorial board for Harvard Review of Psychiatry, which is based at McLean.

Regarding psycho-oncology, some of our residents in the past have set this elective up at Brigham and Women's during their fourth year.

Overall, I have had a great experience here given our invested faculty, tailored mentorship, Harvard and VA resources, and the overall sense of community.

Awesome! It's great to hear from someone with more complete knowledge. Thank you for letting me/SDN know about the psycho-oncology opportunity.

 

[Rogue Penguin]

Not_a_psychic: re: SLU vs. Kaweah Delta

For the above three, Stanford > UCLA > UCSF are competitive regardless of where you went and it'll mostly be based on how well you did in residency rather than where you did it

Clearly, I'm exposing myself as grossly ignorant here... but how is your performance in residency measured? What makes you a more competitive fellowship applicant? How do fellowships know if you're a good resident?

 

[notdeadyet]

Clearly, I'm exposing myself as grossly ignorant here... but how is your performance in residency measured? What makes you a more competitive fellowship applicant? How do fellowships know if you're a good resident?

Performance in residency is like performance anywhere other than school: the proof is in the pudding. Your performance is measured by your work. Some of it is work product and some of it is professionalism (your psychotherapy chops don't get noticed as much if you're the resident known for no-showing to scheduled sessions).

Fellowships know if you're a good resident in the same way any employers know you're good at your job: direct experience doing the job at hand, direct experience doing a similar job, passed along recommendation from a trusted reference, passed along recommendation from a not-personally-known-but-recognized name, or passed along recommendation from an unfamiliar source. And the strength is pretty much in that order.

You will be thought competitive for fellowship based on how well it is expected you will do the job, which will be a combination of your reputation (see paragraph above) and your preparation in the field in hand. Some places may give a $hit about Steps or PRITES or god knows what, but they will be in the minority.

And you're a medical student. Being ignorant about selection process for fellowship is completely normal. I have absolutely no firm idea how a Chair is selected.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Want to be a top psychiatrist, prepare to work for it, go to Harbor-UCLA or NPI. Come out ready for most anything.

Want to be a pretty decent psychiatrist, pretty decent lifestyle, go to USC.

I am generalizing, but I can tell who went to Harbor/NPI and who went to USC after working with them for a few days. NPI is really for the academic track folks. They make you do research, you have to give grand rounds, that sort of thing. Harbor is really to become a crack clinician and the reputation will follow you. You'll see severe pathology there you won't see at the other two. USC is somewhere in-between but not top notch in either direction.

 

[babybutterfly]

Can someone please comment on thoughts of University of Miami and reputation in the southeast? I love the location and was very impressed on interview day, but I heard a rumor from someone on student doctor who says they are a recent grad about a scandal of a resident being punched in the face with no repercussions, being scutwork heavy, 4% PRITE exam last year, and 3 1st year residents wanting to transfer. I have MUSC, UNC, UF, and USF listed in my top too.

 

[rfire104]

Really impressed by UM too. What does 4% PRITE mean?
Thanks

 

[babybutterfly]

That person explained the 4% PRITE as scoring in the 4th percentile compared to other schools, as in 96% of schools would have scored better

 

[Acyl chloride]

I already have most of my list finalized but I'm having trouble deciding how to rank
Cornell vs
Harvard Longwood
I loved the people at both programs, and both seem to offer amazing access to clinical sites and smart faculty. I'm from NYC and my family is there so Cornell gets a few bonus points. That said Longwood seems might have a wider breadth of clinical sites and faculty to choose from and more resources at its disposal... but the program split is a anxiety provoking just because I've already dealt with curricular changes during med school (So I know that being the last class of an old system isn't necessarily stress free). Any insight would be appreciated. Looking to do academic medicine. I would be really happy with any of my top 3 and everyone has told me go with my gut, but the two have kept flip flopping over the course of the season depending on how I feel about NY on any given day.

 

[kirkirkir]

Want to be a top psychiatrist, prepare to work for it, go to Harbor-UCLA or NPI. Come out ready for most anything.

Want to be a pretty decent psychiatrist, pretty decent lifestyle, go to USC.

I am generalizing, but I can tell who went to Harbor/NPI and who went to USC after working with them for a few days. NPI is really for the academic track folks. They make you do research, you have to give grand rounds, that sort of thing. Harbor is really to become a crack clinician and the reputation will follow you. You'll see severe pathology there you won't see at the other two. USC is somewhere in-between but not top notch in either direction.

What are your thoughts on UCLA SFV?

 

[FlowRate]

.

 

[Rooney124]

Rank list finally settled. Locked and loaded! Can't believe it's already time to leave it all to the Match Gods.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Rank list finally settled. Locked and loaded! Can't believe it's already time to leave it all to the Match Gods.

May the Odds be in your Favor.

 

[scudiera]

@Acyl chloride - I'm w/ FlowRate, the program split wasn't a deterrent for me at all from the Longwood program, I think it'll be in good hands. I just don't care for the northeast any longer and particularly Boston.

Still flippin'.

 

[PsyYaYaYaYai]

Ok everyone, I'm about to shake the very foundations of SDN: I am putting UT Austin/Dell above UTSW.

I know the programs are very different, but Dallas just doesn't appeal to me whatsoever. My major question is: will going to UT Austin/Dell really affect my chances to get a nice, beautiful, smart fellowship afterwards? I know that UT Austin/Dell is sort of "new" and feels pretty community, but it is attached to an academic program. I just want to have a sense of what my future prospects might be like if I end up at this program.

Thoughts?

 

[deleted736562]

Hey, i think there's an easy divide with reputation amongst those options.

Conventional/'lay' reputation = UVA, UMaryland, Drexel, Penn state.

within the field suny downstate residents are regarded pretty legit, and can land a great fellowship spot. (will say there are IMG's (stronger than some AMGs applicants), if that is a downer for you).

UVA sounds pretty comfortable from what i've heard. Most of your others are more of an acquired taste location in terms of comfort imo.

I thought the Downstate program was strong clinically and they have a good history of landing graduates into excellent fellowships and even academic careers. What was a more or less a red flag for me was the fact that they don't pay you in the first 6-8 weeks. That means you have to bring aprox. 10 k with you to survive in NYC. It's very inconvenient for some of us. On top their guaranteed 56K a year is a good 4-5K less than other new york programs. Most importantly, that might mean that the program is in financial trouble. That's why I'm ranking them low. Maybe someone else can chime in, in the last minute.

 

[Acyl chloride]

I thought the Downstate program was strong clinically and they have a good history of landing graduates into excellent fellowships and even academic careers. What was a more or less a red flag for me was the fact that they don't pay you in the first 6-8 weeks. That means you have to bring aprox. 10 k with you to survive in NYC. It's very inconvenient for some of us. On top their guaranteed 56K a year is a good 4-5K less than other new york programs. Most importantly, that might mean that the program is in financial trouble. That's why I'm ranking them low. Maybe someone else can chime in, in the last minute.

The new dean of the college of medicine and his wife Drs. Pato are both psychiatrists with major research backgrounds and grants who have big plans for the school and the dept. I agree with the above poster that it doesn't have the bells and whistles of many NYC programs but the future of the program seems solid, it's more the present that you have to decide whether you like or not!

 

[scudiera]

Ok everyone, I'm about to shake the very foundations of SDN: I am putting UT Austin/Dell above UTSW.

I know the programs are very different, but Dallas just doesn't appeal to me whatsoever. My major question is: will going to UT Austin/Dell really affect my chances to get a nice, beautiful, smart fellowship afterwards? I know that UT Austin/Dell is sort of "new" and feels pretty community, but it is attached to an academic program. I just want to have a sense of what my future prospects might be like if I end up at this program.

Thoughts?

Should be fine, the faculty there are from across the country, they'll know folks everywhere. It's got a community vibe, I agree, but fellowships for the most part aren't super competitive. The real question is are you gonna want to leave Austin after living there for 4 years? If you look on Doximity most residents practice in the region they trained because of the connections made in residency, it can take years to build up this network again. This is something to factor in when you think about leaving for fellowship. It's definitely something on my mind.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Ok everyone, I'm about to shake the very foundations of SDN: I am putting UT Austin/Dell above UTSW.

I know the programs are very different, but Dallas just doesn't appeal to me whatsoever. My major question is: will going to UT Austin/Dell really affect my chances to get a nice, beautiful, smart fellowship afterwards? I know that UT Austin/Dell is sort of "new" and feels pretty community, but it is attached to an academic program. I just want to have a sense of what my future prospects might be like if I end up at this program.

Thoughts?

No effect on getting a nice, beautiful, smart fellowship--assuming you are a nice, smart, competent resident.

From what I've heard about Austin, it really would be the preferred location for lots of folks. Most of your PDs will be spending next week there for our annual meeting (conveniently scheduled between ranking and match, so that we can't fret about it!)

 

[angleslam08]

I thought the Downstate program was strong clinically and they have a good history of landing graduates into excellent fellowships and even academic careers. What was a more or less a red flag for me was the fact that they don't pay you in the first 6-8 weeks. That means you have to bring aprox. 10 k with you to survive in NYC. It's very inconvenient for some of us. On top their guaranteed 56K a year is a good 4-5K less than other new york programs. Most importantly, that might mean that the program is in financial trouble. That's why I'm ranking them low. Maybe someone else can chime in, in the last minute.

Did not even know about that inconvenience, sorry man. BUT.. financial concern for psychiatry's residency program is not a worry for their residents. They're actually on the rise, finally in terms of growing research/attracting grant holding faculty.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

What are your thoughts on UCLA SFV?

UCLA SFV is a good program because they give you broad exposure with lots of elective time, emphasize therapy training, offer close supervision, and residents seem happy there. However, they place a lot of emphasis on VA training, and you have several sites that you must drive to. Driving in LA = no bueno. They keep a lower profile in that they aren't the top 2 or 3 programs talked about in SoCal (NPI, Harbor, and UCSD), but residents come out pleased with their training. They also have 3 fellowships: CL, Geri, and Addictions. You can't go wrong there.

 

[Psych747]

What # did you guys ranked WashU Psych??
Did any of you got reply to thank you/rank email?

I was tired between Wash U and Duke, but as confined due to family near St. Louis.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

What # did you guys ranked WashU Psych??
Did any of you got reply to thank you/rank email?

I was tired between Wash U and Duke, but as confined due to family near St. Louis.

As has been noted on this site by multiple people, replies (or lack thereof) outside of "we are ranking you to match" (or equivalent) do not mean anything. You made your list and submitted it... nothing more you can do. Just go have fun.

 

[LoRo1]

I know that the 2016 Match is now over but does anyone know how the University at Buffalo compares to the University of Connecticut? Are they considered to be comparable in terms of training, opportunities, exposure, and reputation?