Official ABIM 2014 thread

[IM2GI]

AAPS Takes MOC to Court

http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/aaps_takes_moc_to_court/

From the lawsuit:

"Many questions asked of physicians as part of ABMS MOC have no relevance to the quality of care that the physician provides, and there is no real accountability as to whether the preferred answers are even correct. (Id. ¶ 85)

ABMS has deceived physicians (including members of AAPS) and the public by pretending that ABMS MOC® measures the medical skills and competence of a physician, and ABMS has been negligent in making its false and misleading statements. (Id. ¶¶ 86-87) Physicians, including members of AAPS, have been compelled by ABMS’s conduct to rely on its misrepresentations in order to remain on hospital medical staffs "

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[ABIM2013]

Hello everyone,

Long time reader... first time poster here. I've read through your posts/experiences and would appreciate your advice and input on my situation.
I just finished my medical residency (graduated last week), and have my ABIM exam scheduled on August 20th. I'm not starting at my job until after that- so I have a full 1.5 months off.

Started doing MKSAP questions yesterday (hadn't touched board review material before this... I know, shameful) and have the "Awesome Review" coming up from July 14-19th.
I admit that I have been underestimating this exam, and kind of writing it off as something that wouldn't be too difficult to conquer when the time came. My ITE scores from this year were quite low- 12th percentile with 60% of questions correct (lowest in GI/Cards/HemeOnc), but again I didn't take the ITE seriously itself, so I told myself that it was not a good indicator.

Well, I've woken up... and i'm hoping that it's not too late.
My question is: If I finish all the MKSAP 16 questions once, and do the Awesome Review course, do I stand a chance at passing this exam?
Are there any drawbacks to taking it and failing?
Should I cancel my review course and exam, and focus on taking it next year?

Any thoughts would be helpful..

You are in danger. Even with an unfocused effort on the ITE, that score suggests a systematic deficiency that has not been corrected.

Your post could have been written by me before I took the 2012 exam and missing passing by 1-2 points (strong residency, did well, but ignored the warning on my last ITE exam since I knew I did not take it seriously). I comfortably passed the 2013 exam after studying like I was supposed to.

You MUST study hard from this point onwards if you want to pass first time. See my old posts to find out what I did second-time around. MKSAP is not enough for someone like you, trust me. Focus on all the minor details of treatment (guidelines, esoteric labs etc.) for this is what the ABIM heavily tests. They are not going you test you on treatment regimens for a newly-diagnosed diabetic, for DKA, or on a septic patient because they know you do this at the brainstem level after three years in residency. They're going to test you on uncommon presentations of common diseases, uncommon diseases, contraindications to drug therapy, and esoteric side-effects of diseases and therapies.

Also, pay attention at Awseome Review. While I did not take a review course either year, a guy whom I met on SDN failed the first time around even after taking Awesome Review because he casually assumed showing up and listening passively was enough to pass (again, he was in a solid medicine program in a pedigree university, was in a solid fellowship program etc.).

Do not underestimate this exam. Good luck.

 

[ABIM2013]

ditto ...
if you dont pass a bunch of things may happen...i took recert earlier than needed.

i lost money.
if you fail, your amygdala will light up like las vegas.
ego beyond crushed. emotionally drained.
days later your amygdala will seeth into a slow burn.
but you'll never get over the devastation. hard to get back in the game.

i have heard some job applications will ask if you've ever failed a board.... although cant personally verify this..

now, on a positive note you will go thru the experience and "see what it us like."
only you can decide if that is the road you want to take.

good luck my friend.

This. Don't be another statistic for the ABIM due to sub-optimal preparation. Being a strong clinician in a strong program does not make you invincible with regard to board preparation. Also, you will see the "FAIL" forever on your ABIM login screen--even after you pass. I'm sure the ABIM thought carefully about making sure this features remains even after succsful passage.

 

[TerryMD]

Semi-related question - do you know if the Awesome Board Review sells its audio/video or syllabus? I cannot make it to a course but would like to use it as an adjunct to MedStudy and MKSAP questions.

 

[Cancerian2020]

Semi-related question - do you know if the Awesome Board Review sells its audio/video or syllabus? I cannot make it to a course but would like to use it as an adjunct to MedStudy and MKSAP questions.

Unfortunately he only do live courses... It's books are only good if you attend the course.. Its his teaching style which makes a difference.. ..

 

[pishicat]

Unfortunately he only do live courses... It's books are only good if you attend the course.. Its his teaching style which makes a difference.. ..

just got score reporting in the mail. it says overall, 65% passed the spring moc exam.

 

[WildTumor]

Initial certification in one month:
- I've gone through MedStudy Books + Videos.
- Finished MKSAP 15: ~70%
- Currently about 200 questions into MKSAP 16 and averaging ~73-74%

Is 70% on the questions enough to pass the actual thing?

 

[pishicat]

i have a semi -strange question and would love everybody's advice.
so for those who had to take the exam again, how did you feel about going back to the same test center? the thought of going back into the same pearson center in october makes me panic, maybe because of bad memories from failing 1st time. but at the same time travelling to another center has an element of unknown. the original center is 5 min from my house, the next closest is 40 min away... i know what to expect with original, but then again starting fresh in a new environmet is sometimes the best thing. wouldnt have to see the same proctors, wouldnt be reminded of my failing score. am i making a big deal of this? should i get out of my own head. so to speak? conquer my fear in addition to conquering the exam? would appreciate feedback on what you would do (or have done) in my situation.

 

[KIRDOC]

Got my score report from the spring MOC exam. Standardized pass score was 366. I was very lucky and got a 526 (middle of 7th decile.) This exam is ABSOLUTELY weighted. Cardiology, GI and Heme saved my butt. Please never come to me for any Endo or Oncology advice. Apparently I know nothing. All the others smack in the middle. A good portion of the exam is "miscelaneous"- like office eye, ear, GYN, psych, statistics, GIM stuff. each little subject isn't much but together is nearly doubles cardiology.

First time test taker with current valid certification pass rate- 80%. That means 1/5 CURRENTLY CERTIFIED, able, competent, experienced MD's failed. Insane. All together that pass rate was only 65% (this includes repeat takers and first time takers whose certification had expired- IOW those who say hadn't taken the exam in 20 years.)

Good luck to all.

To Pishicat- I don't think the center matters. Once you are in the room, the computer, mouse etc... will all be same. I would be stressing over a longer commute, getting up earlier, potential for traffic jams. Enjoy the short 5 minute drive. The hell with the center. give it the middle finger when you walk in. Be confident, hold your head up hi. You will own this exam in October.

 

[CPKMD]

@gutonc @pishicat Thanks for your reply... residency itself is an ego bruising experience haha. But yes, it's my ego in the first place that had me take this exam lightly. Also... I thought the pass/fail information from the boards was private? Do program directors or employers get the results of your exam?

@ABIM2013 I went through your posts and read the one you wrote in Oct 2013 detailing your 2012 vs. 2013 experience with the exam. You are right, we are the same person. Clinically inclined, I also skipped grand rounds/noon conference more than i'd like to admit to be able to spend more time on the floors. I also forgot that I was a trainee. However, when I was present, I had answers to questions on my fingertips. I've scored decently in the USMLE exams but I also know this probably has no correlation. I'm just trying hard to finish the MKSAP questions now, focusing on my weak points on the ITE... (there are alot, apparently). So currently focusing on the subjects that are weighted more in order of weakness, taking notes from the explanations. I start Awesome Review in 5 days, and plan on just studying through his material with MKSAP questions afterwards. I'm not sure if I have time to add any other resources before the exam on Aug. 20th.

Thanks again to everyone for replying. Crossing my fingers and hoping for a Pass.

 

[chocoginger]

i have a semi -strange question and would love everybody's advice.
so for those who had to take the exam again, how did you feel about going back to the same test center? the thought of going back into the same pearson center in october makes me panic, maybe because of bad memories from failing 1st time. but at the same time travelling to another center has an element of unknown. the original center is 5 min from my house, the next closest is 40 min away... i know what to expect with original, but then again starting fresh in a new environmet is sometimes the best thing. wouldnt have to see the same proctors, wouldnt be reminded of my failing score. am i making a big deal of this? should i get out of my own head. so to speak? conquer my fear in addition to conquering the exam? would appreciate feedback on what you would do (or have done) in my situation.

Personally, I did end up retaking the exam at a different center. I didn't want to run into anybody I might know from my residency (like I did the first time). It would have just been too humiliating. So I did end up going "home" (where my family lives---a bordering state), and took the test there. And I passed that time.

 

[DrSeattle]

Anyone out there, studying for August 2014 first time certification? I am getting tired of ridiculous amount of useless information, that I am been studying. That is slowing me down and I feel guilty about it !! I feel like I am not giving my best....

 

[nope80]

What score is needed on MKSAP in order to likely pass? I'm trying to correlate my average mksap scores so I have a general idea where I stand. Any help would be appreciated! thanks!

 

[CorlSt]

Hi @DrSeattle - I'm taking it for the first time in August. There are definitely a lot of resources and a lot useless information online. I am only using a few sources - read the MKSAP books and working through their questions right now, completed the Knowmedge questions (and am still reviewing the printouts), and referencing BB3.

Curious what you're finding as "ridiculous amount of useless information"?

 

[nope80]

anyone have an answer to my question?

 

[DrSeattle]

Sorry I should have explained before: "Ridiculously useless information for real life practice !" It is probably useful to pass the boards. Like what do you give first thiamine or glucose!!! Come on, in real life do we wait for nurse to give thiamine, NO we write banana beg! I understand that one needs to know the concept about things, but I am never going to give patient chemotherapy, why do I need to know the different choices of chemo agents !! If I still need to know, it is easy to open uptodate in front of patient and check it out.

Especially things that are changing very rapidly, like chemo agents, they want to test it for 10 years of validation !!! Whatever... just need to finish the exams and pass, don't care about even looking at the scores!

Hi @DrSeattle - I'm taking it for the first time in August. There are definitely a lot of resources and a lot useless information online. I am only using a few sources - read the MKSAP books and working through their questions right now, completed the Knowmedge questions (and am still reviewing the printouts), and referencing BB3.

Curious what you're finding as "ridiculous amount of useless information"?

 

[DrSeattle]

anyone have an answer to my question?

Per what I read in others posts, it is very wide range from 65-80%

 

[nope80]

oh i see but are you pretty much guaranteed to pass if you get about 70% right? I'm just wondering what the threshold should be on mksap to NOT go through with taking the ABIM?

 

[CorlSt]

oh i see but are you pretty much guaranteed to pass if you get about 70% right? I'm just wondering what the threshold should be on mksap to NOT go through with taking the ABIM?

I had a former colleague fail even though she scored over 70% on MKSAP. She only used MKSAP questions and studied for just 2 months. She did retake it and used additional sources and passed. Goes to show that you can't simply rely on MKSAP.

 

[nope80]

MKSAP was inadequate in terms of material covered or question bank quality or both??

 

[CorlSt]

MKSAP was inadequate in terms of material covered or question bank quality or both??

Quality of questions was fine. I think her issue was cramming it all in 2 months and the fact that she relied on one sole source. There's no way any one question bank could cover all the possible topics on the exam. I used at least 2 for all the USMLE exams. This time around I'm using the Knowmedge and MKSAP qbanks and also the MKSAP books and BB3. In short... quality of MKSAP questions is fine but don't use their qbank as the sole source of studying.

 

[nope80]

how about u-world question bank?

 

[pishicat]

how about u-world question bank?

Do not do USMLE world bank at this juncture....it is going to decrease your confidence in a major way (I speak from experience). I would stick to what CorlSt said ...don't jump around to multiple Review aids (especially if you are taking it in August)

 

[Poety2]

Hi everyone - lurker here, just wondering if anyone else is finding the knowmedge qbank WICKED hard? Im averaging 68% on that and 90's on Mksap and Medstudy and Uworld - mind you I've gone through all hte mksap, medstudy and uworld q's at least once before. I'm taking the test beginning of August and FREAKING out - was not successful last year because I underestimated the exam - have been studyig now for 6 months and just praying I'm successful this time. Any last minute advice is appreciated!!

 

[nope80]

I'm definitely freaking out because I haven't even gone through all the subjects once yet. I'm looking at how much other people studied on this board and am really questioning whether I should be taking this. The question is how will I know?

For the above poster that failed, what did you do the first time around exactly? How were you doing on mksap?

 

[Poety2]

I'm definitely freaking out because I haven't even gone through all the subjects once yet. I'm looking at how much other people studied on this board and am really questioning whether I should be taking this. The question is how will I know?

For the above poster that failed, what did you do the first time around exactly? How were you doing on mksap?

Hi Nope,

First time around I studied for "2 months" which meant grazing over stuff, not paying attention and then at the last two weeks hit questions - I had NO IDEA the scope that would be asked on that test and I unfortunately have a history of not studying and passing and I was foolish to think I could do that on this exam. I applied that same tactic to the steps and was successful so I thought "hey I'll be ok" NOT!!!! I was averaging about 50% on UWorld and 70% on Mksap.

So this year, and I have no idea how successful this will be I have done all the medstudy books at least twice, some high yield things like cards and GI I have done 3 and 4 times, rheum, endo and heme/onc are my nemesis so I've worked on those as well. I've done these question banks over and over again, I do about 200 questions a day and read the explanations over and over. I work 7 x 7 so on my weeks off I do nothing but study about 12 hours a day. I'm nervous that I have just "memorized" a lot of these questions and I'm praying that there are only so many ways they can ask the questions. I also did Unique board review and read his notes to fill in the gaps or memorize his high yield charts. I also do all his questions and re-read his "scenarios". Lastly - at night I read BB3 one subject at a time - its very fast reading so I can usually get through one subject each night.

I'll be honest, I like many others have never failed a test before and this hit me hard - which is why I've done so much to prepare. What I"m most afraid of now is having prepared like this and still failing - that would be DEVASTATING because there is no more I have to bring to the table on this one... <sigh>

 

[nope80]

did you feel like mksap questions were a good representation in terms of detail and breadth?

 

[gutonc]

did you feel like mksap questions were a good representation in terms of detail and breadth?

Not really. But that's all I did and passed. It wasn't pretty but it was good enough.

 

[nope80]

also, for those that already took it, what would be your second best book/questionbank/resource that you would recommend using once you get done mksap?

 

[DrSeattle]

On BB3 now, feels like all I read in MKSAP and AR has evaporated from my brain! Doing Mksap questions again....

 

[whatnext86]

Wow! I'm taking the initial certification exam on August 8th (I also start taking call every other night from August 1, which will be great...). Kinda nervous after reading everything people are posting. I've read all the MKSAP books X 1 with notes, done all the questions X 1, almost done with knowmedge X 1. Also did the online version of pass machine for everything except psych, ob/gyn, ENT. I'm averaging 60-70% in MKSAP and feel like I'm forgetting things instead of retaining thanks to making space for fellowship info. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I can't even imaging having to study for this again during fellowship... thanks in advance!

 

[DocPill]

First timer here - info here has been invaluable but still have a question for whoever can help - I've been doing medstudy core curriculum, medstudy flash cards then both Medstudy Q&A IM bank, then UWorld Qbank in the respective sections (i.e. cardiology, neurology, etc.). I have noticed that Medstudy Q&A seems more reasonable in what they test you on, whereas UWorld is much more trickier in what they ask. Despite that i've been doing really well on Medstudy, and slightly above avg on UWorld but at times can be hit or miss.

In people's experience with these qbanks and the tests - do you think Knowmedge Qbank is a better representation in style and content of potential questions that may appear on boards or is this sufficient? I plan on doing MKSAP questions in high yield sections as my test date approaches closer.

At the end of the day, what would you recommend (is BB3 also in play in terms of questions, or ?). Thanks to the SDN/ABIM community for the help - glad I'm not alone going through this ordeal of sorts, can't wait to be over with this test, and hopefully pass.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[Poety2]

did you feel like mksap questions were a good representation in terms of detail and breadth?

Not really - I remember being asked things that were just bizarre - things I felt I may not have even remembered or known had I studied more, BUT I also went into a PTSD state and freaked myself out where I was just "done" halfway through the test because I was so discouraged so I'm not one to ask on recall of this test. I do remember thinking the questions were shorter than I had anticipated with much less information than I was given in the stems of MKSAP and trickier answers - but that could just be my memory associating the PTSD with it LOL

 

[spumoni620]

Hi everyone - taking my initial certification first week of August. I've gone through all MKSAP q's almost twice (first time doing not so great, then spending time to go through the answers/use that as a way to refresh my knowledge on topics), watched almost all the Medstudy videos, now plugging through BB3...2nd time around I scored much much better on the MKSAP (still not as high as I'd like, but >70%). I'm ~ 3 years out of a dual residency (took my other boards 2 years ago, took a break last year, and now back in the grind) so my challenge is not being quite as fresh with the world of hospital-based clinical training.

Basic question - has anyone looked at the errata for BB3? there's a lot of stuff about the new CVD/statin guidelines, which I find a bit confusing. For one thing, LDL "targets" seem to be de-emphasized and the focus is more on 10-year ASCVD risk. Yet, we're still assessing traditional CVD risk factors q4-6 years, which include...LDL. The pooled cohort calculations also include non-LDL cholesterol and HDL. Am I missing something? Also, what are we "treating" to? Previously, you prescribed statins and then reassessed LDL periodically. Now it seems as though you just prescribe a dose as a preventive measure, but don't follow up on lipids necessarily, because the LDL is no longer a "target"...is this accurate? Clarifications appreciated and welcome.

 

[Poety2]

there is a table in mksap - tried to post that was a mess sorry

 

[CorlSt]

First timer here - info here has been invaluable but still have a question for whoever can help - I've been doing medstudy core curriculum, medstudy flash cards then both Medstudy Q&A IM bank, then UWorld Qbank in the respective sections (i.e. cardiology, neurology, etc.). I have noticed that Medstudy Q&A seems more reasonable in what they test you on, whereas UWorld is much more trickier in what they ask. Despite that i've been doing really well on Medstudy, and slightly above avg on UWorld but at times can be hit or miss.

In people's experience with these qbanks and the tests - do you think Knowmedge Qbank is a better representation in style and content of potential questions that may appear on boards or is this sufficient? I plan on doing MKSAP questions in high yield sections as my test date approaches closer.

At the end of the day, what would you recommend (is BB3 also in play in terms of questions, or ?). Thanks to the SDN/ABIM community for the help - glad I'm not alone going through this ordeal of sorts, can't wait to be over with this test, and hopefully pass.

Good luck to everyone.

Hi @DocPill - I've gone through the Knowmedge questions once already and am going through them a second time. I think it's an excellent resource and I'm really glad I got it. For me the videos and ability to print their flowcharts / slides is really really helpful! I'm an audio/visual learner so I really consider it a learning tool. I'm doing much better the second time around on these questions because I have watched the videos and reviewed the printouts. I feel like I have a much stronger grasp of the concepts now. The questions are challenging (my average 1st time around was about 60%) and like the exam, they have clinical vignettes and shorter questions. The platform is very different (in a good way) but the questions I think are representative of what we'll see on the exam... though I can't compare it to MedStudy or UWorld because I haven't used them.

With that said... you're already practicing a lot of questions so it may not be necessary but if you have time.... I highly recommend it!

Are you taking the exam in August?

Good Luck! With all the practice you've already done... I'm sure you'll do well

 

[UsmleDoc11]

Hi All - I'm taking the exam in late August so I have about a month left. I have gone through MKSAP books, MKSAP questions, and the Knowmedge qbank. I'd like to get one more qbank - would love to get some feedback on whether UWorld is better or MedStudy?

 

[Poety2]

medstudy vote from me - USMLE world is very tricky and not focused on getting those concepts in your head like medstudy is

 

[nope80]

any review books besides mksap that people have been using and liking?

 

[joedoc123]

want to practice questions during last ten days. Already did MKSAP and awesome review twice.

Knowmedge vs Medstudy. Knowmedge is cheaper. Any suggestions ?? is one better than other??

 

[Poety2]

medstudy is easier than knowmedge - knowmedge will ask you to remember information about the disease thats related to the question stem - not directly ask you for the "disease" I like it, it reinforces all that oh so important "complement is decreased, anti smith positive" crap thats rote memorization and CRUCIAL to the practice of everyday medicine

 

[ms1guru]

medstudy vote from me - USMLE world is very tricky and not focused on getting those concepts in your head like medstudy is

I personally like UWorld. Very tough, but I feel like when I get the question wrong, the concept is more likely to be reinforced and you read the explanation in more detail just by the fact you are upset at yourself for getting it wrong. My averages are pretty low - 48-50% in world and have done about half of MKSAP at 66-70%. Is that enough to pass? I hope it is!!!

 

[CorlSt]

Do not do USMLE world bank at this juncture....it is going to decrease your confidence in a major way (I speak from experience). I would stick to what CorlSt said ...don't jump around to multiple Review aids (especially if you are taking it in August)

I couldn't agree more. I did the

Hi everyone - lurker here, just wondering if anyone else is finding the knowmedge qbank WICKED hard? Im averaging 68% on that and 90's on Mksap and Medstudy and Uworld - mind you I've gone through all hte mksap, medstudy and uworld q's at least once before. I'm taking the test beginning of August and FREAKING out - was not successful last year because I underestimated the exam - have been studyig now for 6 months and just praying I'm successful this time. Any last minute advice is appreciated!!

Hi @pishicat - Couldn't agree more with you about UWorld! I am not using it for this exam but I bought it in the final month before Step 3. Big mistake! Killed my confidence right before the exam. I used it for a week and then had to stop.

@Poety2 - I was hoping to hear someone say that as well! The Knowmedge qbank is definitely tough. I bought it early on.... and was averaging around ~60% in total. The second time around I'm doing much better. Actually feel like I've learned a lot of the concepts... the videos and printouts somehow stuck in my head!

Fingers crossed now! Wish both of you luck for the exam!

 

[Poety2]

I am praying every night that everyone here is successful - thanks for the encouragement CorlSt - you've got this!! Kill IT!!!!

 

[MichiganLionKing]

I got 3 weeks to go before the exam. I have gone through MKSAP Questions (70%), UWorld (55%) and Knowmedge (62%). I have gone through the MKSAP books and still reviewing BB3. I feel pretty good about where I am but also a bit stressed. My schedule is really busy because of fellowship and I need to make the most of the last 3 weeks. Any advice / suggestions on what else I should do?

 

[IM2GI]

I got 3 weeks to go before the exam. I have gone through MKSAP Questions (70%), UWorld (55%) and Knowmedge (62%). I have gone through the MKSAP books and still reviewing BB3. I feel pretty good about where I am but also a bit stressed. My schedule is really busy because of fellowship and I need to make the most of the last 3 weeks. Any advice / suggestions on what else I should do?

How did you do on your inservice exam?

That is a **** ton more studying than I did, but obviously ymmv.

 

[nope80]

anyone have a good handout/chart for leukemia/MDS/lymphoma with the key tumor markers or buzz words to help recognize the diagnosis?

 

[MontereyMD]

Hospitalist MOC for ABIM Exam 2014...use MKSAP 16?

Anyone studying for Hospitalist Exam in October?

Wondering what the best material to study is. MKSAP 16 has highlighted section just for Hospitalist material. Would just reviewing the highlighted Hospitalist material be enough or should I basically prepare for a recert and go over everything?

I just went to the Seattle ACP board review course but some of the faculty were baffled as well as to what to study.

Thanks!

 

[DocPill]

Hospitalist MOC for ABIM Exam 2014...use MKSAP 16?

Anyone studying for Hospitalist Exam in October?

Wondering what the best material to study is. MKSAP 16 has highlighted section just for Hospitalist material. Would just reviewing the highlighted Hospitalist material be enough or should I basically prepare for a recert and go over everything?

I just went to the Seattle ACP board review course but some of the faculty were baffled as well as to what to study.

Thanks!

Hey MontereyMD - I'm not sure about what to study for that. But I do have a question about the ACP board review course - did you feel it was worth it? There is an ACP board review course this weekend, and I'm considering going to it, but am not sure if it's worth the time/money. I've been doing medstudy books and q&A, along with USMLE World qbank. I wonder if I should supplement it with an actual live course as well. Would appreciate any suggestions from you and the rest of the community.

CorlSt - thanks so much for your advice and input. Appreciate it - can't wait for this test to be over. Good luck to all. We got this.

 

[MontereyMD]

ACP review course was good. The speakers, who have previously written a lot of the questions, focus on the important points and the high yield areas to study. They often hint at exam questions and what will and won't be asked. So it not only builds my confidence but it also distills the information overload into important facts.