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1) I agree the skills learned will be useful. How you expressed it was fine.
2) Definitely Do Not include that. [Cat shudders with horror at the thought.]
*~*~*~* Official AMCAS "Work/Activities" Tips Thread 2020-2021 *~*~*~*
Started by TheDataKing
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2) Definitely Do Not include that. [Cat shudders with horror at the thought.]
I have shadowed close to 20 different doctors during my summer internship & study abroad, do I really need to list every one's contact information? I'm worried about it being so many characters, and some of them I only shadowed for a very short time several years ago so I don't even know if they remember me, but I still think it's experience worth putting on my app
General question for anyone with Adcom experience/insight. How off-putting is it to see half or more of the 15 W&As jam-packed with multiple entries/multiple contacts? As a non-trad, I have the dilemma of either doing that or leaving significant chunks of life out. I feel like the latter could also raise some eyebrows....
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What are your top three hourly totals among recent-enough shadows that they'd recall you?
Was any group of doc observations sponored by a program coordinator that could act as Contact for all if them?
Were any through a single practice or department where a clerk or nurse manager could attest to all of them?
You are right that too many dense entries are annoying, particularly if they are types of volunteering, clinical experience, and research. Personally, I map out a timeline for each application I review to get a better sense of the timing. But the upside (in your case) is that nontrads get a lot of forebearance, as their applications reflect far more of the qualities we are looking for, can be more fun to read, and might even have a WOW factor.
Yes! Thank you for bringing this up, I hadn't thought of that! I have ~150 hours with a single doc (ENT) shadowing clinical appointments, she definitely knows me and is writing me a LOR. I also have ~150 hours across 9 different docs shadowing vascular surgeries. All are at the same practice, the ENT and vascular surgeons. I am also getting a LOR from the practice administer of the office from my internship there, perhaps I could name her as the contact? or the head nurse who I also planned on mentioning? they both could attest to all my shadowing hours
the rest were all from study abroad and I'm not sure who I could list that could attest to all of them, but it was sponsored by my study abroad organization (edit: these are the ones I am worried about not remembering me, given there was a group of students and they get new groups every term). thanks for your help!
I think you'll be fine if you cite the "staff doctors of XXX and YYY Departments" rather than individual docs and have the practice administrator as Contact. I wouldn't bother to mention the international shadowing, unless it included primary care (which you are lacking).
Great advice, thanks! International shadowing included neurology, oncology, family med, ob/gyn/perinatology, & neonatology, just a few hours of each. Worth mentioning all, or just family med and maybe ob/gyn?
If you have the space, mention them all (as all those specialties do take on primary care responsibilities at times). If space is short, just say you "also shadowed multiple primary care specialties while in [country]." Don't bother with a Contact.
In a teaching role, would saying something like "I seek to apply the foundation here toward building relationships with colleagues, mentors, and patients in medicine" be acceptable? Because I hear that they want you to not only describe traits you've developed in activities, but also explicate how it will contribute to future pursuits. Do you disagree with this?
1) I tilt toward not liking it. But I am only one person. And reviewing your entries is not the point of this thread. So do what you think best after taking many opinions into account.
2) I see no point in speculation that might not come to fruition. Demonstrate the traits we want to see through your activities. Show. Don't tell.
Just to be clear, when you say that "nontrads get a lot of forbearance," you're saying we get a bit of leeway in which of the following: a) lots of dense entries OR b) significant life things missing due to lack of space?
Thanks
a) of the above.
But before you start packing in every space to maximum density, keep in mind that the original intent of AMCAS was that you pick out the 15 activities that are most important to your candidacy. You are not intended to list every single experience you've had since starting the college years, if they exceed that number. So b) is true for everyone.
Hello another question for you if you don’t mind, in my personal statement I touch on how my father being a primary care physician was one of the reasons I want to become a physician (as well as other reasons). In particular every weekend I go see him and he goes over his patients from the past week and what he did, what he was thinking, why he did it etc. I was wondering if I need to put this in the work and activities section as well. I don’t believe this counts as shadowing since I am not seeing these patients but also I don’t really have much formal hours of shadowing my father
1) I think it's best left solely as part of your "path to medicine" that you discuss in your PS.
2) I agree.
3) Children of physicians are generally assumed to have a greater understanding of what a physician's day is like, aside from any formal shadowing. But still, you have time to gain formal experience with your dad or with his professional colleagues to whom he can refer you. Shadowing need not be a longitudinal activity and can be acquired in a short period of time. So why not get the box checked so you don't have to worry about it?
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I had a quick question regarding choosing my "Most Meaningful" experiences. As it stands, I was considering using hospital volunteering, my volunteering at a local food pantry, and my leadership position in a student org that dealt with food insecurity on campus.
1. I was wondering whether these last two are too similar, and whether I should change one out for something such as shadowing.
2. If not, I was considering changing out the hospital volunteering for shadowing, as I believe I gleaned a greater understanding of the patient-doctor relationship through my observations. However, do you think that the 60 hrs I've logged may not be enough to qualify as a most meaningful?
Thanks!
1. I was wondering whether these last two are too similar, and whether I should change one out for something such as shadowing.
2. If not, I was considering changing out the hospital volunteering for shadowing, as I believe I gleaned a greater understanding of the patient-doctor relationship through my observations. However, do you think that the 60 hrs I've logged may not be enough to qualify as a most meaningful?
Thanks!
It seems to me that the personal qualities and themes of what you'd expound on for each of your original choices are all different (clinical/compassion, service, leadership), and even though the category is related for the last two, that's not a bad thing (perhaps direct client service led to the determination to make a difference and thus evoked your leadership potential). So I'd be fine with your sticking to the original plan.
That said, 60 hours of shadowing is more than enough if you decide to make it MM, but how did that experience make you grow and reveal characteristics desirable in a medical school candidate? [rhetorical question]
My involvement at the food pantry indeed inspired me to join the student org. Should I mention this in my MM paragraph? Thank you so much for your time and assistance!
It's good to include motivation.
Thanks for the help Cat. I do have other shadowing on my application, I work full time doing MRI and that overlaps with my fathers schedule so my chance to get more hours with him is pretty much nonexistent. However, for what it’s worth, I am currently shadowing the radiologists where I work when I finish early or when I get a few hours free time
Amazing, thanks!
Hi! I have some questions:
1. Is it better to fill out all 700 characters? I've just been using 1 or 2 sentences to describe what the organization is, a few more on what I do, and end by describing what I got out of it. I don't really explicitly tie them to medicine if it's not really applicable (i.e. tutoring and nonclinical volunteering). I usually used 500-600 characters except for most meaningful.
2. I have read that some club positions can be separated into two slots. I was president for 1 year, secretary for 2, and board member for 4 years. Would it be better if I separated president out into its own slot since it was pretty significant?
3. How should I describe short term jobs that had nothing to do with medicine? I put 400 hours into a summer one (a manual labor job) and about 50 into a barista before covid happened. Neither had anything to do with medicine, but they both made me realize how hard it is to make a living so I was gonna say something about that in the descriptions.
Thank you!
1. Is it better to fill out all 700 characters? I've just been using 1 or 2 sentences to describe what the organization is, a few more on what I do, and end by describing what I got out of it. I don't really explicitly tie them to medicine if it's not really applicable (i.e. tutoring and nonclinical volunteering). I usually used 500-600 characters except for most meaningful.
2. I have read that some club positions can be separated into two slots. I was president for 1 year, secretary for 2, and board member for 4 years. Would it be better if I separated president out into its own slot since it was pretty significant?
3. How should I describe short term jobs that had nothing to do with medicine? I put 400 hours into a summer one (a manual labor job) and about 50 into a barista before covid happened. Neither had anything to do with medicine, but they both made me realize how hard it is to make a living so I was gonna say something about that in the descriptions.
Thank you!
1) Don't "fluff" up what you say to fill a space. Succinctness is appreciated. Say what you need to say, and then stop.
2) You can do that, but do you really have a lot to say about the secretary and board position that needs a whole slot on its own? Do the related responsibilities enhance your candidacy to med school? If so, by all mean, use two spaces. If not, describe those two roles briefly and give most of the narrative space to what you accomplished as President.
3) Short-term jobs that are universally understood require little explanation, so instead it's fine to go into their impact on you. Also, you can emphasize your responsibilities (handling money, locking up), people skills, problem-solving, working under time pressures, etc, which are desirable in a physician candidate, but without specifically relating them to medicine (which they do). Having jobs that connect you to people earning minimum wage is good experience to convey.
1) For listing my fraternity, what should I put for these hours? Philanthropy or every hour I've spent doing something associated with it? That would be a lot. 999 for an unknowable number? Do you have recommendations for this?
2) Also, I've been following this thread and just want a bit more clarity for projected hours. I have heard that you should just lump it together in the hours section and just let it be, but you recommend using the repeated tool for projected hours? Or even just designating in the description maybe? Thanks!!
3) And finally, would 0 or 999 be better for a hobby (sport I've played all my life)?
2) Also, I've been following this thread and just want a bit more clarity for projected hours. I have heard that you should just lump it together in the hours section and just let it be, but you recommend using the repeated tool for projected hours? Or even just designating in the description maybe? Thanks!!
3) And finally, would 0 or 999 be better for a hobby (sport I've played all my life)?
I have about 60 hours of shadowing from my senior year of college in an ER where I shadowed a bunch of residents and attendings.
My question is, can I include some shadowing from late high school (summer before senior year in HS and summer before going to college) in my ECs because I consider them particularly impressive?
My shadowing before my senior year was over 220 hours (I did it 9-5 my entire summer) with the chair emeritus of urology at a T10 school's hospital.
My shadowing before going to college was also about 220 hours (9-5 all summer), with a chair of ophthalmology who worked in both private practice and a public hospital.
I feel all these experiences are relevant and showed that I gained diverse perspectives on medicine, and the amount of time I shadowed I feel is significant enough to have it on my AMCAS, even if it was a while ago. With them, my shadowing is almost 500 hours, without it, it's about 60. And each experience showed me something different. Thoughts?
My question is, can I include some shadowing from late high school (summer before senior year in HS and summer before going to college) in my ECs because I consider them particularly impressive?
My shadowing before my senior year was over 220 hours (I did it 9-5 my entire summer) with the chair emeritus of urology at a T10 school's hospital.
My shadowing before going to college was also about 220 hours (9-5 all summer), with a chair of ophthalmology who worked in both private practice and a public hospital.
I feel all these experiences are relevant and showed that I gained diverse perspectives on medicine, and the amount of time I shadowed I feel is significant enough to have it on my AMCAS, even if it was a while ago. With them, my shadowing is almost 500 hours, without it, it's about 60. And each experience showed me something different. Thoughts?
1) Aside from philanthropy, non-clinical volunteering with affiliated organizations, and leadership roles, what else would you want to mention that would enhance your application?
2) If you just lump them together, the adcomm will have to do the math to decide what likely hours you have completed. Why not be transparent? Lumped hours make me wonder if an applicant had a weak beginning and hopes for a strong ending to their involvement. Why take a chance we will make incorrect assumptions?
3) 999
So I was President of a club last year and will continue to be one this upcoming year. Should I just use the end date as May and the new Repeated date as June2020-May2021 (my second term) and put those hours? That way they know what is projected?
Do you recommend doing this for all things I plan to continue in the upcoming academic year (clinical volunteering, etc)?
Fifty hours of shadowing is all you really need.
Any hours after HS graduation are fine to put on the application, so the ophthalmologist shadowing is fine to include. As for the urologist shadowing during the HS years, consider including it in the PS as part of your path to medicine, &/or mentioning in the narrative without including it in the Total Hours of the Shadowing space.
1) The end date for span #1 and the Repeated start date for span #2 should be the same (May or June, depending on which month you fill it out). The program will not allow you enter and save a future date.
2) It depends on how sure you are to complete the projected hours. If you are not certain, then don't use a second date span in the header. Instead, add to the end of the narrative, "Intend to continue X hr/wk through May 2021" without calculating the likely hours. If you are really, really unsure, then don't include future projections at all.
if shadowing is done in same hospital during HS and UG, can they be shown as one with date breakdowns?
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If the activity is essentially the same both before and after HS graduation (eg, same location, same contact), you can include all the hours and (broken-down) dates in the space.
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deleted1044797
I list my research and publications in separate entries. For the publication entry, do I list the hours as zero?
Yes.
same hospital system but different doctors/specialists over course of HS and college years. Is it OK to give the person in-charge of shadowing program as reference?
Yes.
If I did an activity during both Fall and Spring semesters each academic year but did not do it over the summers, should I list them all out separately or just do Sept 2017 through March 2020 to block off completed hours and then use Sept 2020 through May 2021 for projected future?
If you indicate in the title of the activity that it only took place while college was in session, you won't need to use the Repeated feature so much. Maybe Academic Year Student Senate Role? as an example.
For the future plans the AMCAS program won't let you save a future month of onset, so either start the future date span with the same month you end the completed date span with (March or May or whatever), or instead, put the future plan in the narrative.
Yes, you must continue to spell them out at least once per entry. You don't know in which order entries will be read, as schools can order the Activities by several options. You don't know if one adcomm will read all the entries, as they may be split up and assigned by category for better quality control.
Perhaps the phrase could be abbreviated, but still be understandable. Or it could be spelled out in an appropriate blank in the header area or title of the space.
1) If you want to include the hours of general membership in the club plus the volunteering, use Extracurricular and add mention of "volunteering" to the title of the space. If you want to use Volunteer to tag the space (which would be the preference for most), include only the dates and hours of the volunteer service (but you can use the club president as the contact if you like, and the name of the club as the sponsoring organization).
2) No. You need not mention future hours.
3) You can include the 30 hours on their own if you like, though it's sorta sparse, so consider adding them to another Clinical-tagged space so the impact is greater (with dates, subtotal of hours, and Contact in the narrative). Or alternatively, mention them in the PS.
Hi, thank you in advance Catalystik for answering questions. I had three questions regarding my activities section:
1) I'm a non-traditional student and I'm about 5 years out from undergrad. Should I include things from undergrad like being a club president or doing research? I've worked for awhile so there are things that are more recent but not as applicable to my med school application.
2) In graduate school (health admin), we had a class where we followed doctors and observe patient interactions. It totaled about 30 hours of class time. Is that considered shadowing even though I got class credit for it? All I did for the class was follow my assigned doctor around and wrote a paper at the end.
3) I saw above you mentioned to not project hours for an activity if it's currently suspended, however, if I have a volunteer position that I know is 10 hours a week for the next 6 weeks, can I add the projected hours since by the time verification is complete, I'll have completed the hours as well?
Thanks again!
1) I'm a non-traditional student and I'm about 5 years out from undergrad. Should I include things from undergrad like being a club president or doing research? I've worked for awhile so there are things that are more recent but not as applicable to my med school application.
2) In graduate school (health admin), we had a class where we followed doctors and observe patient interactions. It totaled about 30 hours of class time. Is that considered shadowing even though I got class credit for it? All I did for the class was follow my assigned doctor around and wrote a paper at the end.
3) I saw above you mentioned to not project hours for an activity if it's currently suspended, however, if I have a volunteer position that I know is 10 hours a week for the next 6 weeks, can I add the projected hours since by the time verification is complete, I'll have completed the hours as well?
Thanks again!
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No. As it's particularly meaningful to you, go ahead and list it. Having 150 hours is a decent amount.
1) Many in you position would have an entry called Significant Collegiate Activities and would summarize some of them there. That's not to say you couldn't have other spaces dedicated to activities from those same years that you feel could have a greater impact on your candidacy, like significant service and research.
2) Yes, it's still shadowing. List it.
3) If the future hours are certain, or highly likely, go ahead and list them, either using the Repeated feature, or in the narrative account.
You could mention at the end of another clinical activity that you've been accepted to this program starting x/xx/2020, or alternatively, find a graceful way of adding to the end of your PS.
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itbelikethatsometimes
Full Member
Hi everyone,
I've heard it's standard to group all shadowing experiences into one activity.
The thing is that I did the medical practicum program at my school (75 shadowing hours between 5 clinical sites, also including some volunteering), in addition to shadowing two physicians (different specialties) on my own. Would it be wise to make the practicum one experience, and group the other two shadowing together? Of course I can call the practicum, "Practicum," but how do I label if I group the other two?
I've heard it's standard to group all shadowing experiences into one activity.
The thing is that I did the medical practicum program at my school (75 shadowing hours between 5 clinical sites, also including some volunteering), in addition to shadowing two physicians (different specialties) on my own. Would it be wise to make the practicum one experience, and group the other two shadowing together? Of course I can call the practicum, "Practicum," but how do I label if I group the other two?
Hi @Catalystik
1. I had a bout of hospital volunteering, but my volunteer coordinator is no longer active. I can't get a hold of her or the new volunteer coordinator (Only a phone number no email). What would you recommend I do for contact info here? I would call the hospital and ask but I don't even know if I will even get a response during these times.
2. If I founded a community service tutoring club, who can I list as my contact for this? One of the tutors?
1. I had a bout of hospital volunteering, but my volunteer coordinator is no longer active. I can't get a hold of her or the new volunteer coordinator (Only a phone number no email). What would you recommend I do for contact info here? I would call the hospital and ask but I don't even know if I will even get a response during these times.
2. If I founded a community service tutoring club, who can I list as my contact for this? One of the tutors?
How many shadowing hours do you have aside from the practicum? How many clinical volunteer hours did the practicum give you and how many additional volunteer clinical hours do you have to list?
1) Call the hospital and ask. Try to get an email for the current volunteer coordinator. If all else fails, list yourself as Contact.
2) One of the tutors would be fine if you don't have a co-officer for the organization.
itbelikethatsometimes
Full Member
60 shadowing hours outside of practicum.
The volunteering in practicum was minimum (~20 hours). I have 300+ hours from two other clinical volunteering experiences.
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