Oh no, not another URM thread

[bastar88]

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Sorry to better phrase my question: to level out the social disparity over time by admitting some URMs to top research institutions like Harvard, Yale, etc .., who may be less qualified, no doubt sacrifices the quality of specialized patient care. I am sure patients with specific needs in upper continuum of care would not like that. Thus, I ask is there another reason.

There isn't favoritism in the sense that you are a URM, but being from havard might help your case. There is a range of scores/activities that are taken account for all residencies.. so while you might have been less qualified upon entering Havard, but you might have published more research or participated in community service...or use your personable skills to get great LORS... or who knows, get a 240+ on the USMLE...

you might be interested in this: http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf

OP, I think I focused on the bold more so than the rest of your above statement. You probably should try to ask a specific question.

I still stand by my basic argument. If you are a URM accepted into a more specialized residency, you will continue to provide patient with good quality of care (maybe even better since you are so focused on one topic and will know everything about it... compared to generalized care)

 

[bookfreak89]

I didn't want to bore everyone at the beginning with a length post. Thus, I couldn't mention in details my question. Seeing how everyone is reading and commenting, I will go into details here.

My focus is on the "continuum of care." (primary, secondary, tertiary, and quaternary ). I understand the importance of URM in primary care (internal medicine, family medicine, and pediatrics). To be honest, physicians in primary care are the gateway of the patients to medicine. Thus, it is important to for the patients to trust their physicians and for the physicians to understand the patients. Thus, I completely agree with URM favoritism for medical schools that promote primary care.

However, once you climb the continuum of care - to secondary (Radiology, Neurology, OB/GYN), tertiary (general surgery), and Quaternary (Neurosurgery), patient interaction becomes less important. It is more about knowledge and ability. Thus, to provide better care, you want the most able physicians. That said, should schools like Harvard, Yale, and other top research institutions (where most students go into secondary, tertiary, and quaternary care) show a favoritism for URMs?

To level out the social disparity over time by admitting some URMs, who may be less qualified, no doubt sacrifices the quality of patient care. I am sure patients with specific needs would not like that. Thus, I ask is there another reason?

Are you sure? For one, going to Harvard is already a boost in their application. I know this because my mentor is a very influential member at a top 3 residency program.

I don't think the success of a physician is about graduating medical school. I am sure most people can cram everything and pass every test in medical school. Moreover, in the upper continuum of care, patient interaction is less important. And last lastly, I am not really talking about being an efficient doctor, but the opportunity to be a specialized doctor.

Sorry to better phrase my question: to level out the social disparity over time by admitting some URMs to top research institutions like Harvard, Yale, etc .., who may be less qualified, no doubt sacrifices the quality of specialized patient care. I am sure patients with specific needs in upper continuum of care would not like that. Thus, I ask is there another reason.

Hmm. Let me get this straight, correct me if I'm wrong. What you are basically saying is:

Do URMs (at top schools) get into top residencies/competitive specialties? If they do, it isn't fair because [*coughtheyshouldn'tbetherecough*] quality is comprised if they are in those specialties.

If you wanted to know whether URMs continue to get favored treatment as their career progresses, you should have asked instead of beating around the bush and making numerous assumptions that you have no data to support. 🙄

'The duck' answered your question in their post: Students who get into those specialties are the top students in their class, URM or otherwise.

The answer you are probably looking for is:
No, URMs will not steal your residency spot. 🙄

 

[littlejuan]

I just don't think you should have points added to your application just because you are URM and not because you are you.

FYI, adcoms may add points, or take points away from your application completely because of who you are, and it usually has nothing to do with URM status.

Your background completely matters in this process, and most medical schools are trying to create a diverse environment. Where you come from, who you are, what your parents do, where you have lived, it all can result in an acceptance, or a rejection. It's not just MCAT scores and GPA.

 

[Kalyx]

Don't worry, I read your post also. Thank you for your reply, although it had a somewhat absolute tone.

Often I am surprised that many people don't consider the oppressions and disparities that compel the recruitment of URMs. I guess when we're tucked into our tight, competitive pre-med worlds, it's unfortunately easy to focus disproportionately on things like grades and MCAT scores, and then things can get nasty when you throw in the nerves and anxiety that so many people feel when applying to medical school. As a result, there's a lot of resentment toward URMs... and that resentment is scary. It's scary because on a basic level it appears completely apathetic to the social and educational barriers that have long challenged URMs, and honestly, doesn't that resentment seem bound to reinforce the racism and oppression that make life harder for URMs in the first place?


~Kalyx

 

[Remuneration]

If a dumb bastar88 like you can get into UVa, I'm not too worried about the performance of any URM.

 

[jvesco22]

If a dumb bastar88 like you can get into UVa, I'm not too worried about the performance of any URM.

 

[Meerkatology]

Of course they are.

The term "underrepresented minority" most typically encompasses Native Americans, Blacks, and Hispanics. I'm stunned that historical trauma, institutionalized racism, marked educational disparities, cultural and language barriers, and minority stress wouldn't stand out to you as being disadvantages. These forms of oppression and disparities unfairly disadvantage URMs regardless of their financial backgrounds.


~Kalyx

Hispanic immigrants have cultural, language barriers and minority stress. while Asians and other immigrants were born speaking english, and looking like an average white American.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Are you sure? For one, going to Harvard is already a boost in their application. I know this because my mentor is a very influential member at a top 3 residency program.

Not that much of a boost if you have low board scores and this is common knowledge so it leads me to believe you don't know what you are talking about.

I didn't want to bore everyone at the beginning with a length post. Thus, I couldn't mention in details my question. Seeing how everyone is reading and commenting, I will go into details here.

My focus is on the "continuum of care." (primary, secondary, tertiary, and quaternary ). I understand the importance of URM in primary care (internal medicine, family medicine, and pediatrics). To be honest, physicians in primary care are the gateway of the patients to medicine. Thus, it is important to for the patients to trust their physicians and for the physicians to understand the patients. Thus, I completely agree with URM favoritism for medical schools that promote primary care.

However, once you climb the continuum of care - to secondary (Radiology, Neurology, OB/GYN), tertiary (general surgery), and Quaternary (Neurosurgery), patient interaction becomes less important. It is more about knowledge and ability. Thus, to provide better care, you want the most able physicians. That said, should schools like Harvard, Yale, and other top research institutions (where most students go into secondary, tertiary, and quaternary care) show a favoritism for URMs?

To level out the social disparity over time by admitting some URMs, who may be less qualified, no doubt sacrifices the quality of patient care. I am sure patients with specific needs would not like that. Thus, I ask is there another reason?

Wow you are really f#$#ing stupid. How is "quality" of care affected? You base that on Organic chem performance? Medschool is 4 years of training and 3+years or residency. I don't hear you complain about the quality of care of osteopathic physicians which have the same "quality" of care as allopathic physicians. You don't complain about PAs or NP or DNP. Also you do know URMs that get into Harvard, Yale and other top schools not all of them have stats below the class avg right? Some have stats above the entering class avg.

Also you are concerned about the lack of care in the specialties why? You have to get good board scores to get into those then take multiple exams and then be under supervision working 80 or more hours a week. Yes they are some careless physicians and bad physicians but most of that is due to them not really caring or not putting effort into their cases. Not because they can't grasp the material.

There is a somewhat strong correlation between MCAT scores and STEP 1 scores but if you don't do well on STEP1(which you can only take once) then your chances of a competitive residency diminish.

Also explain why most schools do the Pass/Fail system for the first two years?

Also post evidence to justify your claim rather than just posting stuff and claiming it is true.

 

[Kalyx]

Hispanic immigrants have cultural, language barriers and minority stress. while Asians and other immigrants were born speaking english, and looking like an average white American.

I'm sorry you didn't read my other post, which specifies the presence of severe educational disparities among Hispanics, Blacks, and Native Americans compared to all other ethnic minority groups as a particularly important reason for the active recruitment of URMs.

As I mentioned, Asians certainly suffer from racism and those supposedly "positive stereotypes" can introduce challenges. However, there is not the same legacy of academic, institutionalized racism against Asians, nor do they suffer from the same educational disparities as URMs. Hindu South Asians, for example, are more educated than any other ethnic group in the U.S., including Whites.

The purpose of this kind of recruitment is to increase access to medical education for applicants from ethnic minority groups that are both burdened by deep and very harmful social oppressions and severely underrepresented in medicine.

~Kalyx

 

[Ursa]

Red, yellow, black, or white...I just want the best Dr in sight!

 

[Meerkatology]

I'm sorry you didn't read my other post, which specifies the presence of severe educational disparities among Hispanics, Blacks, and Native Americans compared to all other ethnic minority groups as a particularly important reason for the active recruitment of URMs.

As I mentioned, Asians certainly suffer from racism and those supposedly "positive stereotypes" can introduce challenges. However, there is not the same legacy of academic, institutionalized racism against Asians, nor do they suffer from the same educational disparities as URMs. Hindu South Asians, for example, are more educated than any other ethnic group in the U.S., including Whites.

The purpose of this kind of recruitment is to increase access to medical education for applicants from ethnic minority groups that are both burdened by deep and very harmful social oppressions and severely underrepresented in medicine.

~Kalyx

please tell me where this "severe educational disparity" is between hispanics and asians. There is a much bigger percentage of hispanics that are illegal immigrants who were the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum in their OWN countries before entering the US, while most asians need to be the absolute top of their own countries for a chance to enter the US. In other words the average asian in america is the cream of their race, while the average hispanic in america is probably the average of their race at best.

The above is why there is a "disparity" between asians and hispanics in america, not because hispanics were somehow more discriminated against or opressed than asians are.

now if you think thats enough reason for hispanics to deserve URM advantages while asians get reverse URM'ed. then i got nothing more to say to you.

 

[Kalyx]

please tell me where this "severe educational disparity" is between hispanics and asians. There is a much bigger percentage of hispanics that are illegal immigrants who were the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum in their OWN countries before entering the US, while most asians need to be the absolute top of their own countries for a chance to enter the US. In other words the average asian in america is the cream of their race, while the average hispanic in america is probably the average of their race at best.

The above is why there is a "disparity" between asians and hispanics in america, not because hispanics were somehow more discriminated against or opressed than asians are.

now if you think thats enough reason for hispanics to deserve URM advantages while asians get reverse URM'ed. then i got nothing more to say to you.

WOW. Case. In. Point.


You are scary racist, Jesus Christ!!! 😱

 

[Kalyx]

please tell me where this "severe educational disparity" is between hispanics and asians. There is a much bigger percentage of hispanics that are illegal immigrants who were the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum in their OWN countries before entering the US, while most asians need to be the absolute top of their own countries for a chance to enter the US. In other words the average asian in america is the cream of their race, while the average hispanic in america is probably the average of their race at best.

The above is why there is a "disparity" between asians and hispanics in america, not because hispanics were somehow more discriminated against or opressed than asians are.

now if you think thats enough reason for hispanics to deserve URM advantages while asians get reverse URM'ed. then i got nothing more to say to you.

Seriously I am about ready to puke from reading this post. You honestly believe that socioeconomic status is what determines whether some is the "average" of their race or "the cream of their race?"

Ack! I'm not gonna try to deal with you. You are... something else. Really something else.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Seriously I am about ready to puke from reading this post. You honestly believe that socioeconomic status is what determines whether some is the "average" of their race or "the cream of their race?"

Ack! I'm not gonna try to deal with you. You are... something else. Really something else.

+1

Proof that the URM status is needed with racists still out there.

[i admit here, that I might be wrong about this post... but I am trying to think about why Asians aren't classified as URMs despite disadvantageous background]
While asian have had disadvantages (and still do), their historical cultural value for education have helped many Asians overcome these disadvantages. Blacks, Native Americans and many hispanics come from backgrounds were they were not allowed to value education or not given a chance to earn an education (because of the hardships they faced)... and today, many minority communities still do not see the value in education -- and this is why URM status is still needed to be considered. It's hard to achieve when only you support your education (or maybe your parents support you and value your education, but your friends/neighbors/community are confused by you trying to seek a higher education, and that can put you down)

 

[RogueUnicorn]

 

[MCAT guy]

Seriously I am about ready to puke from reading this post. You honestly believe that socioeconomic status is what determines whether some is the "average" of their race or "the cream of their race?"

Ack! I'm not gonna try to deal with you. You are... something else. Really something else.

Agreed.

 

[Meerkatology]

Seriously I am about ready to puke from reading this post. You honestly believe that socioeconomic status is what determines whether some is the "average" of their race or "the cream of their race?"

Ack! I'm not gonna try to deal with you. You are... something else. Really something else.

pretty obvious i was referring to education/intelligence/hardworker composite and not on some metaphysical level of what constitutes a good human being.

if you can't even pick that up from reading then...gl on verbal 🙂

 

[Meerkatology]

+1

Proof that the URM status is needed with racists still out there.

[i admit here, that I might be wrong about this post... but I am trying to think about why Asians aren't classified as URMs despite disadvantageous background]
While asian have had disadvantages (and still do), their historical cultural value for education have helped many Asians overcome these disadvantages. Blacks, Native Americans and many hispanics come from backgrounds were they were not allowed to value education or not given a chance to earn an education (because of the hardships they faced)... and today, many minority communities still do not see the value in education -- and this is why URM status is still needed to be considered. It's hard to achieve when only you support your education (or maybe your parents support you and value your education, but your friends/neighbors/community are confused by you trying to seek a higher education, and that can put you down)

so instead of encouraging higher education or helping them financially (i.e financial aid, scholarships) you instead offer them free spots in very desired positions by taking those spots away from other more qualified people because their culture actually encouraged hard work and education in the first place?

 

[MCAT guy]

pretty obvious i was referring to education/intelligence/hardworker composite and not on some metaphysical level of what constitutes a good human being.

if you can't even pick that up from reading then...gl on verbal 🙂

Still an odd comment.

It's funny people always say good luck on verbal. Everything in life must relate to the MCAT!

(even screen names)

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i enlarged my avatar just for this thread.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Dearest boyfriend, MCAT guy, of course everything is related to the MCAT.

dearest Bleargh, I was rather enjoying this thread until Meerkatology showed up.

Meerkatology -- everyone who gets into medical school is qualified. If it was all a numbers game, I wouldn't get in... only the 3.8+/33+s, but medical school is not all numbers. The government and community groups are also working on encouraging higher education, but it is difficult process and will take some time before the URM status will not need to be considered.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Dearest boyfriend, MCAT guy, of course everything is related to the MCAT.

dearest Bleargh, I was rather enjoying this thread until Meerkatology showed up.

Meerkatology -- everyone who gets into medical school is qualified. If it was all a numbers game, I wouldn't get in... only the 3.8+/33+s, but medical school is not all numbers. The government and community groups are also working on encouraging higher education, but it is difficult process and will take some time before the URM status will not need to be considered.

meerkatology and the OP prove this statement false.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

meerkatology and the OP prove this statement false.

oh shot I forgot that.

I guess I should rescind my acceptances because my GPA is below a 3.6 and I took the MCAT three times to before I broke 30. And I got in without being a URM; how is that possible?

 

[Meerkatology]

Dearest boyfriend, MCAT guy, of course
Meerkatology -- everyone who gets into medical school is qualified. If it was all a numbers game, I wouldn't get in... only the 3.8+/33+s, but medical school is not all numbers. The government and community groups are also working on encouraging higher education, but it is difficult process and will take some time before the URM status will not need to be considered.

all qualified? a percentage of people fail out.

guess what an even bigger percentage of URMs fail out.

just facts.


but hey, whoever says i'm not qualified to be in med school, i almost cared about your opinion....

then i realized you were a pre-med.

But, do come back when you become the PD of the residency i'm applying to. perhaps i can buy you coffee then?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

all qualified? a percentage of people fail out.

guess what an even bigger percentage of URMs fail out.

just facts.


but hey, whoever says i'm not qualified to be in med school, i almost cared about your opinion....

then i realized you were a pre-med.

But, do come back when you become the PD of the residency i'm applying to. perhaps i can buy you coffee then?

it's like how we almost cared about your opinion because you're a medical student.



until we realized you're a blithering idiot.

 

[niblet]

Some people are really eager to label others as racists.

 

[Meerkatology]

it's like how we almost cared about your opinion because you're a medical student.



until we realized you're a blithering idiot.

but insecure enough to label me as racist and throw personal insults at me because I questioned the validity of your cherished affirmative action.

maybe if you got accepted through fair competition like the rest of us you wouldn't be so insecure? or do you even have an admission yet?

and for the record i don't even oppose AA, i simply disagree with the way it is done. but you wouldn't have picked that up through my posts with your level of reading comprehension now would you?

 

[startswithb]

Some people are really eager to label others as racists.

+1. I really don't understand why no one is able to even consider what Merk is saying as having some significance. Instead, they are bashing him. I mean, do you really think the URM system is perfect? You have yet to even acknowledge what bastar brought up originally. I think it's a fair question.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

but insecure enough to label me as racist and throw personal insults at me because I questioned the validity of your cherished affirmative action.

maybe if you got accepted through fair competition like the rest of us you wouldn't be so insecure? or do you even have an admission yet?

and for the record i don't even oppose AA, i simply disagree with the way it is done. but you wouldn't have picked that up through my posts with your level of reading comprehension now would you?

when did i do that? you sure you're in an american med school brah? your verbal score can't have been great.

as for "rest of us," if you've actually read the thread you'd see how i'm clearly NOT a URM. so much for your reading comprehension, hombre. didn't even need pickin through either.

 

[Meerkatology]

when did i do that? you sure you're in an american med school brah? your verbal score can't have been great.

as for "rest of us," if you've actually read the thread you'd see how i'm clearly NOT a URM. so much for your reading comprehension, hombre. didn't even need pickin through either.

except you said "we" which also includes the others that are flaming me.

and when I say "you" i'm referring to the group of people that you referred to as "we".

reading comprehension, get it?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

except you said "we" which also includes the others that are flaming me.

and when I say "you" i'm referring to the group of people that you referred to as "we".

reading comprehension, get it?

did you read your second line? does that read as a plural "you" to you? so, harvard del caribe?

 

[Techmed07]

I have been on this forum for some years now... I still cannot believe moderators allows such threads to continue on like this. This is not an debate that has any place on this section of the forum.. Can some mod please move this to socipolitical or whatever...I am almost tempted to bump every URM thread ever created just to see what will happen.

 

[Meerkatology]

did you read your second line? does that read as a plural "you" to you? so, harvard del caribe?

so now you are insulting carribean students? ok.

yes i am in a US med school.

no english is not my 1st language, it is my 3rd.

yes i still scored higher on verbal than you ... and everything else. because i know exactly how you scored just like how you know that i'm a racist and an idiot who doesn't belong in med school.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

no english is not my 1st language, it is my 3rd.

yes i still scored higher on verbal than you ... and everything else. because i know exactly how you scored just like you know you know that i'm a racist and an idiot who doesn't belong in med school.

so you are copping to your poor reading skills? english not being your first language isn't a particularly unique badge of honor broseph. funny you keep harping on everyone else's reading skills in a language you're essentially admitting deficiencies in. (yes i ended a sentence in a preposition)

re:mcat, dubious. but it's funny you just keep going back to that

 

[Meerkatology]

Still an odd comment.

It's funny people always say good luck on verbal. Everything in life must relate to the MCAT!

(even screen names)

actually everything in life is related to Meerkats.

 

[Meerkatology]

so you are copping to your poor reading skills? english not being your first language isn't a particularly unique badge of honor broseph. funny you keep harping on everyone else's reading skills in a language you're essentially admitting deficiencies in. (yes i ended a sentence in a preposition)

re:mcat, dubious. but it's funny you just keep going back to that

when did i admit deficiency? by saying it is my 3rd language doesn't mean i'm admitting my english is bad. it is still better than yours apparently.

translation: some people in this world can actually learn their 2nd or 3rd language better than you can learn your 1st. get it? you are actually not that smart!

but you wouldn't believe anyone can actually learn a 2nd or 3rd language right? which is why those hispanics who can't speak good english should be given URM advantages to compensate for the impossible barrier of learning english. Since spanish is much more different from english than any asian language

 

[RogueUnicorn]

when did i admit deficiency? by saying it is my 3rd language doesn't mean i'm admitting my english is bad. it is still better than yours apparently.

translation: some people in this world can actually learn their 2nd or 3rd language better than you can learn your 1st. get it? you are actually not that smart!

but you wouldn't believe anyone can actually learn a 2nd or 3rd language right? which is why those hispanics who can't speak good english should be given URM advantages to compensate for the impossible barrier of learning english. Since spanish is much more different from english than any asian language

lol@ how off base you are, lol@ your inferiority complex, 👎@your now overt racism

 

[Meerkatology]

lol@ how off base you are, lol@ your inferiority complex, 👎@your now overt racism

so comparing the difficulty of learning english as a 2nd language among two groups of people is now considered racism.

However, me requiring higher stats to get into med school compared to the URM next to me because the color of my skin is yellow instead of black is not racist.

and as for the "lol@" 's you have obviously ran out of things to say. so seeing as how no one in this thread has been able to offer any sensible counter arguments to my original points, and instead must resort to calling me racist and throwing personal insults, i rest my case.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

so comparing the difficulty of learning english as a 2nd language among two groups of people is now considered racism.

However, me requiring higher stats to get into med school compared to the URM next to me because the color of my skin is yellow instead of black is not racist.

and as for the "lol@" 's you have obviously ran out of things to say. so seeing as how no one in this thread has been able to offer any sensible counter arguments to my original points, and instead must resort to calling me racist and throwing personal insults, i rest my case.

it's your phrasing, cupcake, along with your general butthurtness. you're right, i've run out of things to say because i'm speechless as to how someone can be so completely out of touch.

 

[Meerkatology]

it's your phrasing, cupcake, along with your general butthurtness. you're right, i've run out of things to say because i'm speechless as to how someone can be so completely out of touch.

the butt hurt person definitely isn't the one throwing personal insults in every line though.

speechless? you have my permission to stop posting then.

and since you are still dodging my original point and refuse to offer a counter argument that is better than "you're an idiot! wait no you're a racist, yes RACIST!!!, actually you're just butthurt... lol!" let me repost my original point.


What affirmative action should be:

Adcom #1: This guy only has a 3.4 gpa and 28 mcat.
Adcom #2: But he grew up from a poor family, went to a bad high school and had to work part time through college to pay for tuition. So I think he has more merits than the numbers suggest.


What affirmative action shouldn't be:

Adcom #1: This guy only has a 3.4 gpa and 28 mcat.
Adcom #2: But wait.... his black!!!!111

 

[jvesco22]

 

[Avoidthetiger]

bleagh -- you are awesome.

meerk - thank you for ruining this thread

all qualified? a percentage of people fail out.

guess what an even bigger percentage of URMs fail out.

just facts.

Failure out of medical school does not mean you were not qualified. It means you did not get the academic or family support that you needed. It also means that the student did not take the right steps to seek out help or that they had more responsibilities than just medical school (spouses, kids!, single-parenthood). More importantly, it means that the student probably needed an extended program. There's alot to learn in the first two years of medical school, and I for one am terrified that I won't be able to do it and all I will be doing is studying in medical school. if I had additional responsibilities, man, I would be at risk for failing out too.

To sum it up -- No one fails out of medical school (US medical school) because they aren't qualified. They just might need more time or more support. Also, some drop out realizing that they have other priorities in life (are you sure they failed out?).

Additionally, please don't judge people based on their color or pre-med status.

I hope the mods close this thread.

 

[startswithb]

bleagh -- you are awesome.

meerk - thank you for ruining this thread


Failure out of medical school does not mean you were not qualified. It means you did not get the academic or family support that you needed. It also means that the student did not take the right steps to seek out help or that they had more responsibilities than just medical school (spouses, kids!, single-parenthood). More importantly, it means that the student probably needed an extended program. There's alot to learn in the first two years of medical school, and I for one am terrified that I won't be able to do it and all I will be doing is studying in medical school. if I had additional responsibilities, man, I would be at risk for failing out too.

To sum it up -- No one fails out of medical school (US medical school) because they aren't qualified. They just might need more time or more support. Also, some drop out realizing that they have other priorities in life (are you sure they failed out?).

Additionally, please don't judge people based on their color or pre-med status.

I hope the mods close this thread.

Because EVERYONE has the exact same innate ability and aptitude to learn anything? Including medicine?

Because there are infinite resources????

These are just not realistic statements.

In addition, if you had any bearing to make these statements it would be because you are a faculty of a medical school. If you are not, I suggest if this topic really interests you that you speak to one. I highly doubt the reasons for failing/struggling are exactly as you prescribe.

 

[Meerkatology]

bleagh -- you are awesome.

meerk - thank you for ruining this thread


Failure out of medical school does not mean you were not qualified. It means you did not get the academic or family support that you needed. It also means that the student did not take the right steps to seek out help or that they had more responsibilities than just medical school (spouses, kids!, single-parenthood). More importantly, it means that the student probably needed an extended program. There's alot to learn in the first two years of medical school, and I for one am terrified that I won't be able to do it and all I will be doing is studying in medical school. if I had additional responsibilities, man, I would be at risk for failing out too.

To sum it up -- No one fails out of medical school (US medical school) because they aren't qualified. They just might need more time or more support. Also, some drop out realizing that they have other priorities in life (are you sure they failed out?).

Additionally, please don't judge people based on their color or pre-med status.

I hope the mods close this thread.

i hate using personal insults, i even refrained to do so with bleargh since he at least displayed some spark of human intelligence...

but you sir, are so ridiculously ******ed that i hate myself for even typing to you.

so everyone who is in a US medical school is qualified. I am in a US med school, but didn't you say that I shouldn't be here?

and thanks for the clarification that you are referring to US med schools because people who fail out of foreign medical schools or carribean deserve to fail, but definitely not anyone in a US med school though.

 

[startswithb]

Yeah, did the people who failed out of Caribbean med schools do so because they were single parents? Or was it because they were less qualified? I am so confused. 😕

 

[Meerkatology]

Additionally, please don't judge people based on their color or pre-med status.

I hope the mods close this thread.

I am exactly asking for affirmative action to not judge by race(i.e the color of their skin) but instead socioeconomic background (yes there are poor asians and poor whites that live in the ghettos too).

im pre-medist! but seriously a premed telling a MS4 that they don't belong in med school is like a medical student telling an attending they are treating a patient wrong.

i don't know about mods closing this thread but i do hope something closes your mouth.

 

[Meerkatology]

To sum it up -- No one fails out of medical school (US medical school) because they aren't qualified.

edit: now that i think about it you just made the closest thing to a real racist statement in this thread.

 

[eablackwell]

This thread has so much in common with a train wreck it isn't even funny. I didn't want to post in it, but I couldn't stop my fingers from clicking the keys. Boy, I'd better not go into surgery.

 

[HealthHare]

This is probably the best analogy for why Affirmative Action is fair:

Imagine that a couple has twins.

One is blonde, one has black hair

The parents like twin 1 more than twin 2 because they always wanted a kid with blonde hair

For the first ten birthdays of their lives twin 1 receives a present while twin 2 does not.

Finally on their 11th birthday, the parents realize that what they have been doing is wrong and decide from now on to give twin 2 two presents while still giving twin 1 one each year.

Question:
Should twin 1 suddenly become bitter that he is receiving less presents even though his brother never received one?

Should he cry reverse hairism?

Should we totally disregard what 10 years of gross favoritism in a child's life could have on his self-esteem?

I'm not saying that if twin 2 starts misbehaving and doesn't do well in school that his parents don't have the right to limit his amount of presents.

However if he is making good grades and being a good kid doesn't he deserve what should have always been his?

 

[Meerkatology]

This is probably the best analogy for why Affirmative Action is fair:

Imagine that a couple has twins.

One is blonde, one has black hair

The parents like twin 1 more than twin 2 because they always wanted a kid with blonde hair

For the first ten birthdays of their lives twin 1 receives a present while twin 2 does not.

Finally on their 11th birthday, the parents realize that what they have been doing is wrong and decide from now on to give twin 2 two presents while still giving twin 1 one each year.

Question:
Should twin 1 suddenly become bitter that he is receiving less presents even though his brother never received one?

Should he cry reverse hairism?

Should we totally disregard what 10 years of gross favoritism in a child's life could have on his self-esteem?

I'm not saying that if twin 2 starts misbehaving and doesn't do well in school that his parents don't have the right to limit his amount of presents.

However if he is making good grades and being a good kid doesn't he deserve what should have always been his?

1st of all the recent argument was hispanics vs asians when it comes to affirmative action. but let me make an analogy to your analogy there.

a white guy finds an AK47 on the ground, he walks on the street and shoots 10 black guys.

putting the white guy in jail so he can't do any more harm, that is justice

giving the AK47 to a black guy and having him shoot 10 white guys.... is not justice


racial discrimination is inherently wrong. you don't make up for past discrimination with reverse discrimination. you make it up by ensuring equality.


edit: somewhat misread your post, if you want to give twin A one present and give twin B two presents that would require 3 total presents... that would work in an ideal world with infinite resources but in the real world when you give an URM a spot, you are taking it away from someone else, its not like you're making more spots in med school...