Oh no, not another URM thread

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I wonder what forums would have been like if they existed back when medical schools started accepting women (or more women). haha.

I wonder how upset male applicants must be that women get accepted with lower MCAT scores
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/06/mcat-scores-for-medical-students-by.html
(though I can't find the original data and I don't want to calculate this myself)
 
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wagy27 said:
It's funny and sad to realize the same fights that were taking place 10 years ago are still taking place and anyone who challenges the URM machine is at risk of being called a bigot/racist. Because med school spots are finite, there is always going to be complaints about the distribution of these spots.
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Sorry, being a resident doesn't privilege your snide dismissal, and framing affirmative action as the URM machine, as if its a goddamn conspiracy against white people, immediately flags your post as deserving of ridicule.

I think the core tenet of med school admission should be that each school should take the best students they can. How does one define that, who knows. Objectively, things like GPA's and MCAT scores should matter because they are standardized in some form (obviously GPA's can vary significantly by institution, MCATs not so much). I think it's much harder to objectively categorize extra curriculars, etc.
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Nothing overtly disagreeable here, although you privilege GPA and MCAT due to their relative objectivity (ignoring systemic biases beyond instuitional grade policies), and conflate objectivity with increased utility for selecting the "best" students.

As for the URM status, it seems to me that this has become more of a socioeconomic status correction than an attempt to correct the underrepresented minorities in medicine.
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No. Although difficulties faced by persons of all disadvantaged backgrounds can be addressed in the application to one's benefit, the purpose of URM status is to explicitly offer higher consideration for several specific minority groups.

Personally, I think neither should be taking place. There has to be point where the higher education system draws a line in the sand and says from this point on admissions should be purely based on merit and not on ethnicity/disadvantaged status, etc.
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What is merit? Are the circumstances of your birth meritous? Measuring merit as anything other than the self-sacrifice and perserverance to achieve one's goals privileges fate. Excellent public/private K-12 education vs. poor rural/urban school, attentive, caring parents vs negligent parents, good vs poor nutrition, stress levels, financial concerns, role models (not only in the public sphere but private relations), networking, winning the genetic lottery: what is merit but the accumulation of capricious fate's gifts?

If a person can, lacking some or all of this multitude of benefits, still succeed in their studies such as to meet the qualifications for consideration, how can we justifiable consider them less meritous?

I can understand the rationale in undergrad but by the time one is applying for graduate school, a person should stand on their own achievements. Could it be more difficult for a URM candidate to succeed in college? Absolutely, but we cannot as a society continue to accept that as a rationale to biased admissions procedures. The problem with perpetuating the URM model is that as competition increases and the finite number of med school spots increase only slightly, taking a URM/disadvantaged candidate whose stats might not be on par with the other students applying/interviewing doesn't follow the mantra of searching for the best/brightest.
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You admit a disadvantage, but you absurdly deny that such a disadvantage should be taken into account in the admissions process. Looking for the best is not the same as looking for the brightest. Intangibles, especially those often necessarily cultivated by minority candidates (overcoming adversity, ability to empathisize with disadvantaged patients, etc) can be equally or more important in one's success once the necessary intellectual requirements are achieved.

I completely support increasing minorities in medicine and think that it can be a solution to solving the health care disparities amongs ethnic minority populations in this country. I just don't believe that accepting qualifications less than the standard for traditional students is the solution.
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The usual bull****, "I'm not racist, but..." A platitude hailing the importance of increasing minority representation in medicine, but a refusal, worse than a refusal to develop measures to achieve this goal, a rejection of the crucial stop gap measure awaiting the long-deferred utopia of racial equality in the U.S.
 
bleargh said:
premeds need to get over this notion of how things have to be completely fair. wah wah not fair wah wah. get over it, what are you, 7?
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"These men ask for just the same thing, fairness, and fairness only. This, so far as in my power, they, and all others, shall have "

Abraham Lincoln

I think I would go with Abe's notion anytime. Btw, I do not think he was 7 when he said this.
 
"i'm a white male, ah bloo bloo bloo bloo, my life is so hard"

Jefferson Davis
 
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

It seems we still haven't reached this.

Oh, but feel free to call me a racist. 🙄
 
L-O-L.

Another one of these??

Disclaimer: I'm URM.

That being said, I agree that people shouldn't jump the gun and be quick to call someone else racist. It's an offensive term that should be reserved for an appropriate time. I think "unaware" or "insensitive" might be a softer term to use.

Anyway, my main issue with people arguing that we should only use stats to admit people into medical school is that, in this case, we would only have 4.0's and 45's (or whatever the highest number average would be for all medical school seats in the country). This would mean that NOBODY, not even non-URM's, falling below that cut-off would be in medical school. Doesn't seem too fair in that case either, does it?

My point is that admissions committees are doing the best with what they have. They are trying to level the playing field where they can. I don't think they are being completely outrageous in their admissions ethics, since they are still trying to recruit URM's. If all schools were using a quota system, then the term URM would be obsolete. Clearly, this isn't the case. So everyone on both sides of the issue take a chill pill. 😎 Life isn't always fair, you just have to play the game the best you can. 😉
 
Well, I wasn't planning on it, but I'll go back to the 'hood' if this is the kind of verbal mumbo jumbo and name calling that takes place outside.

"You can take the URM out the hood,
But you cant take the hood out the URM"
- Homeboyz (M.D. remix), The Comrads 1997

DancingThruLife said:
So everyone on both sides of the issue take a chill pill. 😎 Life isn't always fair, you just have to play the game the best you can. 😉
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👍
 
BrainBuff said:
"These men ask for just the same thing, fairness, and fairness only. This, so far as in my power, they, and all others, shall have "

Abraham Lincoln

I think I would go with Abe's notion anytime. Btw, I do not think he was 7 when he said this.
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"Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not."
-Oscar Wilde

"Life is not fair, get used to it"
-Bill Gates
 
Yes, they would, because they're a bunch of entitled crybabies.

At least some are ignorant or feign ignorance. To acknowledge institutionalized discrimination but to reject its consideration in the admissions process is far more callous. To acknowledge bias in test scores, but to privelege them nonetheless is just?

We are not accepting applicants incapable of completing medical school, or being a competent doctor. Their performance on these tests are sufficiently high to suggest that they will fulfill required expectations for accreditation. While the average score of an accepted URM applicant may be lower, they are nonetheless outnumbered by accepted non-URM applicants with similarly competitive scores due to the sheer difference in the overall number of applications.

You continue to ignore, conveniently, the multitude of less tangible benefits of producing more doctors from under-represented minorities.
 
Hey guys, it's not that I don't believe in fighting for racial equality, it's just that I'm against it impinging on my entitlements in any way.

Let's all hold hands and wish away institutional discrimination.
 
Also, SDN's preoccupation with URM applicants speaks volumes about the racist undertones in forums community.

Do we have weekly threads begrudging the white guys/girls with a somewhat lower MCAT/GPA but an extensive and exciting volunteer experience, an exceptionally interesting leadership experience, and so on? No, they put the "effort" into obtaining those experiences, and if that earns them higher consideration by the admissions committee, so be it. But taking into account of difficulties faced by URMs and their efforts to overcome them? Biased, biased, biased. They aren't being selected on their merits.

Should I begrudge anyone and everyone on SDN who is accepted to a school at which I am not? My GPA/MCAT are certainly higher than most, above average at almost every single school in the United States, so should I not be able to submit my application at whim and sit on a throne of acceptances? No, because these factors alone do not demonstrate the quality of a candidate.
 
malcolm-x.jpg
 
I was going to participate in this thread but then I realized that keeping my sanity might be beneficial for attending med school. Especially because I've only gotten in unfairly.
 
at least we can all agree that the mt sinai humed program is the least meritocratic way of admitting med students :meanie:
 
Remuneration said:
Hey guys, it's not that I don't believe in fighting for racial equality, it's just that I'm against it impinging on my entitlements in any way.

Let's all hold hands and wish away institutional discrimination.
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So you're against the "entitlements" of those who were brought up by parents with hard work and the success of their children on the forefront of their minds? That's just entitlement and should be ignored. It's not "fair," you say.

But it is NOT entitlement to give someone a spot in professional school admissions because of no other reason than their race. And I don't think you believe or understand this, but it IS only because of race. This has been discussed time and time again. ALL applicants are judged based on a holistic review of their achievements, adversity, obstacles, and personality. That is a wash. But then you say over and over again, that it is minorities that have the amazing life stories, that overcome the most or better adversity. Because it is race and race alone that determines who has had the worst life, and thus, is more deserving. This is all I am getting out of your posts.

I have a challenge for you. Since you are so passionate about what you believe are racial disparities, wouldn't you think resources would better be served uplifting those who never even graduate high school, much less get to the point of applying to medical school? These people have already achieved much more than the average person. The problem with affirmative action in professional school admissions, is that it is only based on race, and the seats are finite. There are so many people that have worked for and dreamed of this opportunity that skewing the playing field just seems unjust.

And what about the long-term effects of AA? I was just reading a book last night where an african-american physician said that she felt she had to overwork her colleagues and consistently felt the pressure to be perfect, because she was afraid that people would think she had only reached her station because of affirmative action. The data from the AAMC clearly shows one can reach a % of acceptance from 50% to 80% based on race. And I still don't believe your rebuttal that only minorities face educational adversity.

I agree with the resident. When are people expected to stand on their own achievements? I'd say once they reach college is a good start.
 
Scores, past experience and personality all play into it. I've rejected URM candidates who did not interview well.

Likewise, people who come across as arrogant and entitled are not going to be considered strong applicants. When those people are bypassed in favor of applicants with lower stats (and more pleasant personalities) the bypassed start crying about race. Boo hoo.
 
bleargh said:
"Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not."
-Oscar Wilde

"Life is not fair, get used to it"
-Bill Gates
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tell me something, did u think MLK junior sat down on his ass, and just said to him self, "well dang, life aint fair to us in america, we should prob not do anything and just get use to it..." right? do u think thats what went thro his head? rofl do u think we have no right to fight what we think its rightfully ours? u sir, are an Id@$%.
 
Cleavername said:
tell me something, did u think MLK junior sat down on his ass, and just said to him self, "well dang, life aint fair to us in america, we should prob not do anything and just get use to it..." right? do u think thats what went thro his head? rofl do u think we have no right to fight what we think its rightfully ours? u sir, are an Id@$%.
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lol you're right. your whining about the plight of the ORM premed is JUST like the civil rights movement. way to fight for that equality for all! perspective fail.

rightfully yours? christ are you even listening to yourself?
 
bleargh said:
lol you're right. your whining about the plight of the ORM premed is JUST like the civil rights movement. way to fight for that equality for all! perspective fail.

rightfully yours? christ are you even listening to yourself?
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absolutely, do u think it matters if something was "Rightfully" yours, but yet i have it? does it really matter who it belong to from the start if i have it and am holding on to it? that is if the word belong even mean anything. from what you just wrote i can tell you are a very idealistic person, argueing with you is without a doubt a waste of my time.
 
Cleavername said:
absolutely, do u think it matters if something was "Rightfully" yours, but yet i have it? does it really matter who it belong to from the start if i have it and am holding on to it? that is if the word belong even mean anything. from what you just wrote i can tell you are a very idealistic person, argueing with you is without a doubt a waste of my time.
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you're right. "life isn't fair" drips with idealism. 🙄

the hilarity here, dear sir/mademoiselle, is that you are claiming as your right something that plainly isn't. but carry on, my modern day MLK friend..
 
startswithb said:
So you're against the "entitlements" of those who were brought up by parents with hard work and the success of their children on the forefront of their minds? That's just entitlement and should be ignored. It's not "fair," you say.
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There is no question that the sacrifices of the parents for their children should be rewarded, but to what extent are the benefits reaped from the sacrifice justified. If my great-grandfather through fortitude and fortune succeeds in business and leaves the family a sizeable inheritance, what have I, three generations later, done to earn my elevated position in society? In a capitalist society, the benefits of an early acquisition are often self-perpetuating. Certainly, the hard work of parents should be rewarded, but does that mean that losers in the game of markets should be perpetually disadvantaged? Strong public education, public infrastructure, and limitations on inheritances are necessary to promote equality in opportunity.

But it is NOT entitlement to give someone a spot in professional school admissions because of no other reason than their race. And I don't think you believe or understand this, but it IS only because of race.
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It is not.

This has been discussed time and time again. ALL applicants are judged based on a holistic review of their achievements, adversity, obstacles, and personality. That is a wash. But then you say over and over again, that it is minorities that have the amazing life stories, that overcome the most or better adversity. Because it is race and race alone that determines who has had the worst life, and thus, is more deserving. This is all I am getting out of your posts.
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Race alone is not the determining factor, it is ANOTHER factor to be considered in the holistic review of the candidate. While their average test scores may indeed be lower as a whole, the accepted applicants are NOT unqualified by these other metrics.

I have a challenge for you. Since you are so passionate about what you believe are racial disparities, wouldn't you think resources would better be served uplifting those who never even graduate high school, much less get to the point of applying to medical school? These people have already achieved much more than the average person. The problem with affirmative action in professional school admissions, is that it is only based on race, and the seats are finite. There are so many people that have worked for and dreamed of this opportunity that skewing the playing field just seems unjust.
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Again, it is not the only metric, you ignoramus. Again, you complain about URM status "unjustly" skewing the playing field, but accept all other factors affecting one's development as an individual as "just."

And what about the long-term effects of AA? I was just reading a book last night where an african-american physician said that she felt she had to overwork her colleagues and consistently felt the pressure to be perfect, because she was afraid that people would think she had only reached her station because of affirmative action. The data from the AAMC clearly shows one can reach a % of acceptance from 50% to 80% based on race. And I still don't believe your rebuttal that only minorities face educational adversity.
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African Americans and other minorities already feel this pressure throughout their educational and professional career. Pretending this is unique to doctors or the result of affirmative action is idiotic. Affirmative action is a convenient scapegoat for closet racists.

I agree with the resident. When are people expected to stand on their own achievements? I'd say once they reach college is a good start.
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When you stop pretending that these achievements are solely the result of your own hard work, and accept that your success in life is largely determined by factors that pre-date you.
 
No one is completely colorblind. We all see and react to race, it is inevitable and not racist.

I work with mostly Hispanic patients (and I am white), and it is CLEAR that minority patients prefer minority doctors. They understand the language and culture much better than someone outside the culture. Patients are grateful and impressed when I speak Spanish to them. It sure helps, but I know I am not a subsititute for a Hispanic doctor. While we lack them, I try my best.

Patient interaction is huge. When people are at their most vulnerable, they are comfortable with people like them. That is natural and it extends across race, sex, and even things like sexual orientation (I have seen gay patients prefer gay medical assistants).

So, URMs may have lower numbers (edit: and I should add only in some cases this is true, not all), but they are far from unqualified. Plus, they bring extra experiences and intangible qualities that improve medical care for patients and they influence the other doctors they work with.

Stop blaming them for taking your spots. Plenty (pretty much most) of medical school matriculants are white. If you don't get it, it's your fault. Plenty of us get the opportunity despite being white.
 
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Barcu said:
No one is completely colorblind. We all see and react to race, it is inevitable and not racist.

I work with mostly Hispanic patients (and I am white), and it is CLEAR that minority patients prefer minority doctors. They understand the language and culture much better than someone outside the culture. Patients are grateful and impressed when I speak Spanish to them. It sure helps, but I know I am not a subsititute for a Hispanic doctor. While we lack them, I try my best.

Patient interaction is huge. When people are at their most vulnerable, they are comfortable with people like them. That is natural and it extends across race, sex, and even things like sexual orientation (I have seen gay patients prefer gay medical assistants).

So, URMs may have lower numbers (edit: and I should add only in some cases this is true, not all), but they are far from unqualified. Plus, they bring extra experiences and intangible qualities that improve medical care for patients and they influence the other doctors they work with.

Stop blaming them for taking your spots. Plenty (pretty much most) of medical school matriculants are white. If you don't get it, it's your fault. Plenty of us get the opportunity despite being white.
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ahhhh i was hoping no one would say this cuze then i would have to agree. this is undoubtedly the only reasonable argument of this whole damn thread for URMs. pffn, i guess human ignorances can be beneficial to some people some times.
 
It is pretty funny that people are using an "own achievements" argument.

Guess what? ORM, URM, or whatever, you have had help from people in your life. Teachers, America, family, friends, the educational system, military (freedom), academics, writers, tutors, SDN, etc.

Can you really just ignore your entire support system?

It's hard to say you've done it on your own. I'm certainly grateful for all the help I've had from people.
 
MCAT guy said:
It is pretty funny that people are using an "own achievements" argument.

Guess what? ORM, URM, or whatever, you have had help from people in your life. Teachers, America, family, friends, the educational system, military (freedom), academics, writers, tutors, SDN, etc.

Can you really just ignore your entire support system?

It's hard to say you've done it on your own. I'm certainly grateful for all the help I've had from people.
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+ 1 👍
 
Let me see if someone can answer my questions:

1. Are people assuming that non-URM applicants with higher numbers are being rejected from medical schools solely due to their ethnicity?

1a. If so, how do you know that was the reason these applicants were rejected? I am pretty sure we do not have access to data stating the reasons why every single applicant was rejected.

2. Back to mustafirah's (sp?) comment, are people arguing about URMs gaining acceptances to top schools (this is what the OP was discussing, 🙄) or URMs acceptances to all medical schools?

2a. I have not seen anyone complain about how Meharry/Morehouse/Howard (or HBCUs for undergrad) accept predominantly blacks (and also the medical school in Puerto Rico for hispanics). Shouldn't these 'coveted' medical school spots be the focus of your attacks?

*opens MSAR*

# of black matriculants for 08-09 at Meharry/Morehouse/Howard = 204 > # of black matriculants at Top 18 schools combined (201)

Where is the hubbub? I wonder...
 
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People arguing this issue are absolutely silly. Obviously no one knows the true/future impact of what ADCOMs have already decided (i.e. to always admit a certain percentage of minorities because they are severely under-represented). I for one don't like it when someone assumes I'm where I'm at because of thee color of my skin... and I've rescinded to the fact that I would have to deal with this the rest of my life - regardless of what ADCOMs decide in how they pick students.

But I'm glad that they do their best in picking the right students for their schools... I believe that schools truly try their best to ensure that all their student's get the best the school has to offer i.e. in terms of both academia and ethnic diversity.

And like someone mentioned earlier... the ratio of URMs in medical is soo small, which is why they are considered under-represented - so it's not like they are taking away a lot of your spots.

On a side note, the school I'll be most likely attending next year has only 16 AA medical student's in the entire school (HOLY SHYT, that's like 4 per class of 140) - I think I should reconsider this. I didn't know this until reading this thread, lol.
 
Morzh said:
I'm politically incorrect.
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ha, that reminds me of the Italian museums that use to charge different prices depending on what country you were from (don't know if that's still practice since it became a union.) Guess which country had to pay some of the higher prices to enter the museum? USA.

I do still see a difference between a cupcake sale based on race and affirmative action. A collective group shouldn't be allowed to pay less for a cupcake (unless their is a economic need), but should be given a chance for higher education due to historical prejudices and biases that continue today (even if there GPA and MCAT is lower).
 
Barcu said:
No one is completely colorblind. We all see and react to race, it is inevitable and not racist.

I work with mostly Hispanic patients (and I am white), and it is CLEAR that minority patients prefer minority doctors. They understand the language and culture much better than someone outside the culture. Patients are grateful and impressed when I speak Spanish to them. It sure helps, but I know I am not a subsititute for a Hispanic doctor. While we lack them, I try my best.

Patient interaction is huge. When people are at their most vulnerable, they are comfortable with people like them. That is natural and it extends across race, sex, and even things like sexual orientation (I have seen gay patients prefer gay medical assistants).

So, URMs may have lower numbers (edit: and I should add only in some cases this is true, not all), but they are far from unqualified. Plus, they bring extra experiences and intangible qualities that improve medical care for patients and they influence the other doctors they work with.

Stop blaming them for taking your spots. Plenty (pretty much most) of medical school matriculants are white. If you don't get it, it's your fault. Plenty of us get the opportunity despite being white.
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:claps:bravo! this thread should really stop here.

LizzyM said:
Likewise, people who come across as arrogant and entitled are not going to be considered strong applicants. When those people are bypassed in favor of applicants with lower stats (and more pleasant personalities) the bypassed start crying about race. Boo hoo.
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hehehe true dat. it's too bad some people with unpleasant personalities sometimes fake their way in through the admissions process (not gonna point the finger..)

Jamiu22 said:
People arguing this issue are absolutely silly. Obviously no one knows the true/future impact of what ADCOMs have already decided (i.e. to always admit a certain percentage of minorities because they are severely under-represented). I for one don't like it when someone assumes I'm where I'm at because of thee color of my skin... and I've rescinded to the fact that I would have to deal with this the rest of my life - regardless of what ADCOMs decide in how they pick students.

But I'm glad that they do their best in picking the right students for their schools... I believe that schools truly try their best to ensure that all their student's get the best the school has to offer i.e. in terms of both academia and ethnic diversity.

And like someone mentioned earlier... the ratio of URMs in medical is soo small, which is why they are considered under-represented - so it's not like they are taking away a lot of your spots.

On a side note, the school I'll be most likely attending next year has only 16 AA medical student's in the entire school (HOLY SHYT, that's like 4 per class of 140) - I think I should reconsider this. I didn't know this until reading this thread, lol.
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hell yeah. you have the right idea bro. when u pre-meds get to med school and see how many white people (followed by asians) there are you will forget all about this stupid concern if you have it... and if you're like me you're gonna wish for a change of scenery cuz you're gonna miss bein around the brothas! somehow gotta keep it real
 
yeah.. and cupcakes taste so much better comin from the government/establishment 😀


oh, i forgot.. if you're seriously worried about URMs being at "top schools" vs. "lower tier schools"... you're ******ed. it makes no difference which accredited med school you're lucky to get into (it's just for FOUR YEARS), in the end we're all going to be physicians.duh
 
Morzh said:
I'm politically incorrect.
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I read the article and that analogy is what it is: An analogy - poor one. And depending on which side of the debate you are on, it can sound completely non-analogous or the smoking gun that proves that affirmative action is evil.

Either way, a poor argument...from John Stossel; btw, he's definitely too far right for me anyways. I've watched him a couple times on O'Reilly & Hannity...so that's where my judgment comes from.
 
Stossel, like most conservatives and those arguing against affirrmative action in this thread, love to conveniently ignore the many de facto forms of segregation that persist in our public education system. School funding and districting, class structure, teacher recruitment, among other problems, result, in many areas, in underfunded and/or understaffed black/latino majority schools and better funded, better staffed white majority school districts. Minorities who do enroll in better schools often face the social and psychological pressure of being one of very limited number of students of their race in attendance.

Because public education is not explicitly segregated, conservatives/libertarians claim equal opportunity in K-12 education.
 
Remuneration said:
Stossel, like most conservatives and those arguing against affirrmative action in this thread, love to conveniently ignore the many de facto forms of segregation that persist in our public education system. School funding and districting, class structure, teacher recruitment, among other problems, result, in many areas, in underfunded and/or understaffed black/latino majority schools and better funded, better staffed white majority school districts. Minorities who do enroll in better schools often face the social and psychological pressure of being one of very limited number of students of their race in attendance.

Because public education is not explicitly segregated, conservatives/libertarians claim equal opportunity in K-12 education.
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There's a fundamental difference between active, de jure segregation/discrimination and passive segregation. Not saying one is right and one is wrong, but the intent and methods for arriving at a solution are fundamentally different.
 
There certainly is a difference, but it's nonetheless disingenuous that argue that blacks are, on the whole, advantaged thanks to de jure consideration when they are so negatively impacted by de facto segregation/discrimination.

De facto segregation/discrimination is a more complex and insidious form of segregation/discrimination. Certainly many supporters lack malign intent and are simply ignorant of its pervasiveness and impact (which contributes its persistance). However, it has a long history of use in the subversion of de jure attempts to establish equality in opportunity.
 
Have you ever been stopped while driving because of the color of your skin? It happens... particularly if you are driving through a neighborhood that is demographically different than the typical socioeconomic status of people of your own race.

Have you ever been closely followed by a sales clerk while browsing in a store? Ever look around and notice that not every customer gets the same "customer service"?

Ever walk around at a big social event and be mistaken for a member of the service staff?

Some applicants bring a different life experience to the table regardless of their socioeconomic status, schools attended, and the like.
 
LizzyM said:
Have you ever been stopped while driving because of the color of your skin? It happens... particularly if you are driving through a neighborhood that is demographically different than the typical socioeconomic status of people of your own race.

Have you ever been closely followed by a sales clerk while browsing in a store? Ever look around and notice that not every customer gets the same "customer service"?

Ever walk around at a big social event and be mistaken for a member of the service staff?

Some applicants bring a different life experience to the table regardless of their socioeconomic status, schools attended, and the like.
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people assume that i am a math TA when i walk into the math help center. or physics.
 
LizzyM said:
Have you ever been stopped while driving because of the color of your skin? It happens... particularly if you are driving through a neighborhood that is demographically different than the typical socioeconomic status of people of your own race.

Have you ever been closely followed by a sales clerk while browsing in a store? Ever look around and notice that not every customer gets the same "customer service"?

Ever walk around at a big social event and be mistaken for a member of the service staff?

Some applicants bring a different life experience to the table regardless of their socioeconomic status, schools attended, and the like.
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👍

I was once the only white girl on a beach and I got called "snowball." 🙁
Way to make me want to tan more. :laugh:

also I love "positive" stereotypes. Some of my Asian friends use to walk about with shirts that said "I suck at math"
 
Cleavername said:
people assume that i am a math TA when i walk into the math help center. or physics.
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Cleavername, I like how you bring another perspective to the issue. Unfortunately, no one in this thread probably cares.
 
LizzyM said:
Have you ever been stopped while driving because of the color of your skin? It happens... particularly if you are driving through a neighborhood that is demographically different than the typical socioeconomic status of people of your own race.

URM here and I can answer these questions:
Yes, A cop stopped me, and then didn't believe it was my car...

Have you ever been closely followed by a sales clerk while browsing in a store? Ever look around and notice that not every customer gets the same "customer service"?

Yes, on multiple occasions; on another occasion, one lady immediately locked all her does when she saw me walk by her car.
Ever walk around at a big social event and be mistaken for a member of the service staff?

At my college graduation (Engineering department), one of the parents at the occasion thought I was a cleaning person and promptly guided me to where there was a water spill.. although I was actually wearing a suit; too bad I didn't have my cap and gown on at the time, so maybe that's why huh? Darn.

At a job fair, an engineering manager said "We dont have a lot of you around here" (with a chuckle)... he then said "keep up the good work and stay in school" while not even looking at my Resume. This can be really defeating when you still had other boots to go to in hopes of getting a job.


Some applicants bring a different life experience to the table regardless of their socioeconomic status, schools attended, and the like.
Click to expand...

My point is that if anyone believes that we are now all on equal footings, they are just living in la-la land and choose to be ignorant.

My moto is that "Life ain't fair...get used to it"... dwelling on it will only get to you or limit your potentials.
 
startswithb said:
Cleavername, I like how you bring another perspective to the issue. Unfortunately, no one in this thread probably cares.
Click to expand...
Positive stereotypes is an issue. But they don't make a group of people feel like society thinks they are un-intelligent or always guilty of a crime or only capable of low-paying jobs. Until little white and black girls don't ID the white doll as "good" and the black doll as "bad", there is still fundamental issues occurring in our society.

Jamiu - thanks for your post. 🙂
 
startswithb said:
Cleavername, I like how you bring another perspective to the issue. Unfortunately, no one in this thread probably cares.
Click to expand...

meh i quit.













i jk, ill come back with moar i think i should be treated fairly stuff tonight, but for now i got to go research some stuff.
 
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