Oh shucks Fauci, didn't you learn that honesty trumps (oops...) politics?

[epidural man]

Worth 6 minutes of your time.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[ZzzPlz]

 

[Ronin786]

Worth 6 minutes of your time.

You owe me 3 minutes.

 

[pgg]

Worth 6 minutes of your time.

I'm sure he'll be locked up right after we get to the bottom of Hillary's emails.

 

[kmurp]

Well I watched 30sec. Agree with him on Iraq anyway. Funny we were just listening to Natalie Maines singing “Mother”. I explained to my daughter how she kinda lost her country music career over one critical statement on the way. “Patriots “ and talk radio right wingers were all in on that war.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I thought she lost her career b/c how she came across and multiple critical statements. I would agree with the second part of that statement.

Does anyone else see Dr Fauci as the type of colleague that doesn't pull as much weight in the department b/c they are always working on a side project? And they seem pretty smart but seem to take the same material as you but wind up with a different conclusion. I don't personally know him (surprise), but he superficially strikes me as this "type".

 

[ucladoc2b]

I thought she lost her career b/c how she came across and multiple critical statements. I would agree with the second part of that statement.

Does anyone else see Dr Fauci as the type of colleague that doesn't pull as much weight in the department b/c they are always working on a side project? And they seem pretty smart but seem to take the same material as you but wind up with a different conclusion. I don't personally know him (surprise), but he superficially strikes me as this "type".

Hasn’t he been the head of the department for 30 years or more?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Hasn’t he been the head of the department for 30 years or more?

Probably. I had heard that he hadn't had significant patient care for 30 years, so that fits! lol

Are you saying that supports my assessment, or not? (I am sincerely asking b/c it could go either way- I have seen many department heads who would fit my description). Personal story: I had to be put asleep emergently during residency. The guy I would have picked was taking care of me. Yay. In steps the department head, takes over and FUBAR'd the situation worse than a junior resident. He was neither smooth nor in. He almost snapped defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Zekchar]

Probably. I had heard that he hadn't had significant patient care for 30 years, so that fits! lol

Are you saying that supports my assessment, or not? (I am sincerely asking b/c it could go either way- I have seen many department heads who would fit my description). Personal story: I had to be put asleep emergently during residency. The guy I would have picked was taking care of me. Yay. In steps the department head, takes over and FUBAR'd the situation worse than a junior resident. He was neither smooth nor in. He almost snapped defeat from the jaws of victory.

I don't want any division head, highly published academic, nor chairman taking care of me or my family. I want the confident 5-8 year doc who is up to date on the literature, slick, and battle tested.

 

[chessknt]

I don't want any division head, highly published academic, nor chairman taking care of me or my family. I want the confident 5-8 year doc who is up to date on the literature, slick, and battle tested.

Do you think concocting an antibiotic treatment plan for endocarditis translates to running the national pandemic response? I don’t see how patient care has any role in his job.

 

[Zekchar]

Do you think concocting an antibiotic treatment plan for endocarditis translates to running the national pandemic response? I don’t see how patient care has any role in his job.

It does not. My response was to whom I would want (or in this case not want) to take care of me clinically. See above.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I do think being a good physician versus a poor physician translates to running the national pandemic response. My money is on the good physician to outperform the poorly performing physician in essentially every life scenario. I may not always be right, but I will be right more often than wrong.

 

[chessknt]

I do think being a good physician versus a poor physician translates to running the national pandemic response. My money is on the good physician to outperform the poorly performing physician in essentially every life scenario. I may not always be right, but I will be right more often than wrong.

How do you think your gyn exam skills are these days? Probably pretty **** right because you haven’t done one in a long time because it isn’t part of your job any more. Does that make you a poor physician?

 

[Justice4all]

I agree with zechar. Nothing against the chairman or director of research but practice makes perfect . They serve a purpose in our field and they have paid their dues.
All of us can do the basic cases but as the complexity ramps up, I’ll take the seasoned veteran that does those cases weekly

 

[BobLoblaw78]

How do you think your gyn exam skills are these days? Probably pretty **** right because you haven’t done one in a long time because it isn’t part of your job any more. Does that make you a poor physician?

Why thanks for asking. My gyn exam skill are great these days. I practice as much as possible.

But I think you are missing my point. Take any person in the same field. The person that is better is likely to be better in other areas of life. Not always true, but more often will be right. Take baseball. I will take the All-star MLB'er over the minor league bench player to win a basketball pickup game. I like the odds.

My deal with Dr Fauci was him speaking in absolutes and condemning any other opposing ideas when he and everyone else had no way of knowing. I prefer the "That is an interesting point but here is why I believe I am right" approach.

 

[vector2]

.

My deal with Dr Fauci was him speaking in absolutes and condemning any other opposing ideas when he and everyone else had no way of knowing. I prefer the "That is an interesting point but here is why I believe I am right" approach.

That is exactly how he approached every issue since he started. And in retrospect, when he has been wrong (which indeed was numerous times), he has now acknowledged that he was wrong and/or explained the reasons why. All the idiots keep gleefully trying to celebrate a "gotcha" about Fauci and masks when in fact they should be lauding him for changing his stance as the evidence and expert consensus changed..... instead of stubbornly and wrongfully sticking to his guns.

Whatever agenda you have is causing you to project a version of Fauci who you think made a whole bunch of definitive statements, but who in reality hedged almost all the things he said as any scientist with limited information about a new phenomenon would do.

Don't believe me? Just look at these interview quotes:

---
MARGARET BRENNAN: You just- you just heard that report from our Liz Palmer about Italy. Are we on the same trajectory as Italy?

DR. FAUCI: No, not necessarily at all. I mean, obviously, things are unpredictable. You can't make any definitive statement. But if you look at the dynamics of the outbreak in Italy, we don't know why they are suffering so terribly...
---

---
MARGARET BRENNAN: Then it started spreading human to human. Is the virus mutating? Is it changing?

DR. FAUCI: Well, this is an RNA virus, MARGARET. And it always will mutate. The real question is so that people don't get confused. Viruses commute- mutate with no substantial impact on its function. So I have no doubt it's mutating as all RNA viruses mutate. We have not seen thus far any type of change in the way it's acting, but we are keeping a very close eye on it because it is conceivable that it could mutate and change some of the ways that it performs. But we have not seen that yet, but we're not going to just not pay attention to it. We're going to follow it closely.
---

---
“I fully expect — though I’m humble enough that I can’t accurately predict — that by the time we get to the fall that we will have this under control enough, that it certainly will not be the way it is now — where people are shutting schools,” Fauci said at the daily coronavirus briefing at the White House.
---

---
"We all have to be honest and humble, nobody really knows for sure, but I think 70-85% for herd immunity for COVID-19 is a reasonable estimate," he said on CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday."
---

 

[BobLoblaw78]

That is exactly how he approached every issue since he started. And in retrospect, when he has been wrong (which indeed was numerous times), he has now acknowledged that he was wrong and/or explained the reasons why. All the idiots keep gleefully trying to celebrate a "gotcha" about Fauci and masks when in fact they should be lauding him for changing his stance as the evidence and expert consensus changed..... instead of stubbornly and wrongfully sticking to his guns.

Whatever agenda you have is causing you to project a version of Fauci who you think made a whole bunch of definitive statements, but who in reality hedged almost all the things he said as any scientist with limited information about a new phenomenon would do.

Don't believe me? Just look at this interview quote from March 2020.

---
MARGARET BRENNAN: You just- you just heard that report from our Liz Palmer about Italy. Are we on the same trajectory as Italy?

DR. FAUCI: No, not necessarily at all. I mean, obviously, things are unpredictable. You can't make any definitive statement. But if you look at the dynamics of the outbreak in Italy, we don't know why they are suffering so terribly...
---

---
MARGARET BRENNAN: Then it started spreading human to human. Is the virus mutating? Is it changing?

DR. FAUCI: Well, this is an RNA virus, MARGARET. And it always will mutate. The real question is so that people don't get confused. Viruses commute- mutate with no substantial impact on its function. So I have no doubt it's mutating as all RNA viruses mutate. We have not seen thus far any type of change in the way it's acting, but we are keeping a very close eye on it because it is conceivable that it could mutate and change some of the ways that it performs. But we have not seen that yet, but we're not going to just not pay attention to it. We're going to follow it closely.
---

---
“I fully expect — though I’m humble enough that I can’t accurately predict — that by the time we get to the fall that we will have this under control enough, that it certainly will not be the way it is now — where people are shutting schools,” Fauci said at the daily coronavirus briefing at the White House.
---

Thanks for the reasonable response.

I don’t have an agenda. I’m mainly irritated at defending him for 6+ months and feeling stupid in retrospect. Whether it was me telling people that he was telling them not to wear masks because he had other reasons (save them for hospitals). Or telling them he must have inside info on the lab. He has fooled me too many times and I’m irritated I looked stupid for defending the physician’s stance to everyday people.

He definitely didn’t have an easy position. But he has been different in many interactions than the exchanges above.

 

[vector2]

That is exactly how he approached every issue since he started. And in retrospect, when he has been wrong (which indeed was numerous times), he has now acknowledged that he was wrong and/or explained the reasons why. All the idiots keep gleefully trying to celebrate a "gotcha" about Fauci and masks when in fact they should be lauding him for changing his stance as the evidence and expert consensus changed..... instead of stubbornly and wrongfully sticking to his guns.

Thanks for the reasonable response.

I don’t have an agenda. I’m mainly irritated at defending him for 6+ months and feeling stupid in retrospect. Whether it was me telling people that he was telling them not to wear masks because he had other reasons (save them for hospitals). Or telling them he must have inside info on the lab. He has fooled me too many times and I’m irritated I looked stupid for defending the physician’s stance to everyday people.

He definitely didn’t have an easy position. But he has been different in many interactions than the exchanges above.

It doesn't make any sense to feel stupid for defending him. As you say, he discouraged masks at a time of a severe PPE shortage where masks were definitely needed by healthcare workers. It was also a time when the degree of asymptomatic spread was also unknown, and thus affirmatively advocating mask use wasn't necessarily justified.

Read this quote from early in the pandemic:

"
Fauci: Of course, of course. But, when you think masks -- you should think of healthcare providers needing them and people who are ill. The people who -- when you look at the films of foreign countries and you see 85% of the people wearing masks, that's fine, that's fine, I am not against it; if you want to do it, that's fine.

Interviewer: But it can lead to a shortage of masks?

Fauci: Exactly, that's the point, it can lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it.
"

The fact is, there was a shortage, plus nobody knew what was going on as far as spread. Faulting Fauci on his early mask statements is a silly gotcha- not something sensible or reasonable which tries to understand the context.



And as far as the lab leak vis a vis Fauci's statements and emails, it's a big fat out of context nothing burger that is being bandied about by....people with an agenda. Fauci still hasn't changed his opinion that the most likely source is a zoonotic jump. But anyone interested in the facts and not a 6 min conspiracy video can just look at all his quotes in a reputable publication like Forbes

Here’s What Dr. Fauci Has Said About Covid’s Origins And The Lab Leak Theory

Fauci on Wednesday argued it’s a “bit of a distortion” to claim he “deliberately suppressed” the lab leak theory.

www.google.com

 

[deleted875186]

Why thanks for asking. My gyn exam skill are great these days. I practice as much as possible.

But I think you are missing my point. Take any person in the same field. The person that is better is likely to be better in other areas of life. Not always true, but more often will be right. Take baseball. I will take the All-star MLB'er over the minor league bench player to win a basketball pickup game. I like the odds.

My deal with Dr Fauci was him speaking in absolutes and condemning any other opposing ideas when he and everyone else had no way of knowing. I prefer the "That is an interesting point but here is why I believe I am right" approach.

Couldn’t be more wrong. Public health and population based decisions are entirely different from everyday practice of medicine.

The sudden hatred of Fauci by people is just politics, which is unfortunate. Dude had a very bad hand dealt to him with the pandemic and Trump, of course te a and opinions change as we learned more about Covid.

what we should be discussing is how the CDC as a whole has been weakened.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

A pandemic is the Super Bowl of Public Health and they have been preparing and waiting a hundred frickin years since the last one. So you know the tunnel vision will and has been insane.

To these guys NOTHING matters but the virus; not the economy, not crime, not mental health, not education, not quality of life, not nothing. If Fauci and the gang thinks they can save hundreds or thousands of aging grandmas FROM THE VIRUS, they will and have run a scorched earth policy to wreck the rest of civilization and will feel victorious.

(This blinders mentality is prevalent throughout medicine. How many cancer docs think they succeeded because their quality of life ending chemotherapy gave their patients 3 whole extra months of "life"?)

 

[Aheadbyacentury]

Couldn’t be more wrong. Public health and population based decisions are entirely different from everyday practice of medicine.

The sudden hatred of Fauci by people is just politics, which is unfortunate. Dude had a very bad hand dealt to him with the pandemic and Trump, of course te a and opinions change as we learned more about Covid.

what we should be discussing is how the CDC as a whole has been weakened.

They specifically tried to bury this story of lab leak. I remember in march 2020 the epoch times made a documentary questioning the origins of the Wuhan Virus. It was well made and well researched and every single mainstream media did not cover the story. I remember I flipped channels for a week straight looking for the story. I knew it was a conspiracy because why would nobody mention this? Tucker Carlson mentioned it very very briefly in march 2020. Trump pissed many people off for calling it the "China Virus"

 

[Arch Guillotti]

They specifically tried to bury this story of lab leak. I remember in march 2020 the epoch times made a documentary questioning the origins of the Wuhan Virus. It was well made and well researched and every single mainstream media did not cover the story. I remember I flipped channels for a week straight looking for the story. I knew it was a conspiracy because why would nobody mention this? Tucker Carlson mentioned it very very briefly in march 2020. Trump pissed many people off for calling it the "China Virus"

The “epoch times” is full of propaganda and conspiracy theories.

 

[pgg]

They specifically tried to bury this story of lab leak. I remember in march 2020 the epoch times

Stopped reading right there.

Get help, man, get help.

 

[deleted875186]

Stopped reading right there.

Get help, man, get help.

Sometimes we see what we want to see.

Im not denying the lab leak story, who knows. But I think any reasonable public health official would have done what Fauci did, accept the more plausible explanation. Frankly, even if the lab leak is true, I don’t see how that impacts any of our decisions for public health throughout the pandemic.

 

[Aheadbyacentury]

The “epoch times” is full of propaganda and conspiracy theories.

This conspiracy theory happened to be Correctamundo.

 

[Aheadbyacentury]

Sometimes we see what we want to see.

Im not denying the lab leak story, who knows. But I think any reasonable public health official would have done what Fauci did, accept the more plausible explanation. Frankly, even if the lab leak is true, I don’t see how that impacts any of our decisions for public health throughout the pandemic.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[deleted162650]

 

[pgg]

LOL at the Daytona Beach spring break herpes lab

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

While quite funny, Steven Colbert is pretty shaken up that Stewart won't follow the party line. As an independent thinker it's refreshing to see Stewart go independent here, but it's also sad how rare this happens in our bot partisan world.

 

[epidural man]

Sometimes we see what we want to see.

Im not denying the lab leak story, who knows. But I think any reasonable public health official would have done what Fauci did, accept the more plausible explanation. Frankly, even if the lab leak is true, I don’t see how that impacts any of our decisions for public health throughout the pandemic.

Umm...I disagree. A reasonable public health official would not have lied about gain of function research, would not have restarted it after the democratic presidency shut it down, and would not have pushed the "conspiracy" narrative when they knew there was a lot of truth to it.

It surprises me that there is a mountain of evidence that the virus was created in a lab - and ZERO evidence that it came from nature...yet people still say...."well it could be either one. "

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

It surprises me that there is a mountain of evidence that the virus was created in a lab - and ZERO evidence that it came from nature...yet people still say...."well it could be either one. "

This is one of the worst cases of hearing hoofbeats and looking for zebras. As Stewart says, Hmm sounds like The Wuhan Corona Virus maybe originated from the Wuhan Virology Institute that studies, wait for it..... The Corona Virus!!!

The hoofbeats in this one are as loud as Secretariat winning the Belmont.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

This conspiracy theory happened to be Correctamundo.

Exactly, it's a lot harder to bash the propaganda when the conspiracy is actually true.

 

[chessknt]

Let’s assume it was created in a Chinese lab, intentionally altered to be virulent, and intentionally released on the world.

So what do you wanna do? Slap some more tariffs on them? Get the world trade organization to punish them? An angry letter from the UN? NATO attack? Shoot missiles? Scramble the jets? What the **** does it matter if any of this happened because China is immune to all consequences—they underpin the manufacturing and financial core of the first world and they know it. They already prop up a nuclear armed psychopath, hack our private and government sectors at will for money and trade secrets, and commit genocide in the open without consesequence. Why does it matter if they released covid and tried to kill everyone too?

This whole thing is being spun by the right as some sort of liberal coverup but it is more realistically a coordinated effort to keep Trump in the dark so he didn’t end the world by doing the above to look like the big man he has to be to his base. So if it’s true and it’s out now we’ll all just pretend it isn’t just like all the other **** China does because the alternative is much much much worse.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Let’s assume it was created in a Chinese lab, intentionally altered to be virulent, and intentionally released on the world.

So what do you wanna do? Slap some more tariffs on them? Get the world trade organization to punish them? An angry letter from the UN? NATO attack? Shoot missiles? Scramble the jets? What the **** does it matter if any of this happened because China is immune to all consequences—they underpin the manufacturing and financial core of the first world and they know it. They already prop up a nuclear armed psychopath, hack our private and government sectors at will for money and trade secrets, and commit genocide in the open without consesequence. Why does it matter if they released covid and tried to kill everyone too?

This whole thing is being spun by the right as some sort of liberal coverup but it is more realistically a coordinated effort to keep Trump in the dark so he didn’t end the world by doing the above to look like the big man he has to be to his base. So if it’s true and it’s out now we’ll all just pretend it isn’t just like all the other **** China does because the alternative is much much much worse.

This is one of the worst posts I have seen on this site. ("everyone is worse for having read this. At no point did it make any sense. May God have mercy on your soul"- Abe Lincoln)

You are literally saying, "So what if China intentionally caused the deaths of millions? Let's do nothing because they may do worse." And you are saying you support a coordinated effort to keep the POTUS misinformed? You are endorsing evil through justification exercises. This is how evil grows in the world. (I will avoid the German soldier analogies since everyone misses the point)

(Disclaimer: this post is so out there that I will allow that you may be trolling or maybe I am missing your sarcasm)

Silver Lining: I believe your post can bring us all closer together by agreeing how off it is

 

[GassYous]

This is one of the worst posts I have seen on this site. ("everyone is worse for having read this. At no point did it make any sense. May God have mercy on your soul"- Abe Lincoln)

You are literally saying, "So what if China intentionally caused the deaths of millions? Let's do nothing because they may do worse." And you are saying you support a coordinated effort to keep the POTUS misinformed? You are endorsing evil through justification exercises. This is how evil grows in the world. (I will avoid the German soldier analogies since everyone misses the point)

(Disclaimer: this post is so out there that I will allow that you may be trolling or maybe I am missing your sarcasm)

Silver Lining: I believe your post can bring us all closer together by agreeing how off it is

hahaha

You should read up on history and see how much misery and death the united states has inflicted on the world. The cia alone is responsible for the destabilization of many countries and for many deaths. That's what happens when you're the hegemon, you can do as you like with no consequences. That post is just realistic.

 

[chessknt]

This is one of the worst posts I have seen on this site. ("everyone is worse for having read this. At no point did it make any sense. May God have mercy on your soul"- Abe Lincoln)

You are literally saying, "So what if China intentionally caused the deaths of millions? Let's do nothing because they may do worse." And you are saying you support a coordinated effort to keep the POTUS misinformed? You are endorsing evil through justification exercises. This is how evil grows in the world. (I will avoid the German soldier analogies since everyone misses the point)

(Disclaimer: this post is so out there that I will allow that you may be trolling or maybe I am missing your sarcasm)

Silver Lining: I believe your post can bring us all closer together by agreeing how off it is

Ok if you want to take that position answer the question—what do you think should be done? China is already executing millions of people through ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs and Tibet and has empowered a madman to commit mass murder in North Korea and we have done nothing. Why is this different, because Americans died this time? Do you think less people will die if we start a war with a nuclear armed foe?

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Ok if you want to take that position answer the question—what do you think should be done? China is already executing millions of people through ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs and Tibet and has empowered a madman to commit mass murder in North Korea and we have done nothing. Why is this different, because Americans died this time? Do you think less people will die if we start a war with a nuclear armed foe?

Yes, but none of this justifies blindly following the bs line that it had to be a rogue bat in the fields.

 

[GassYous]

Yes, but none of this justifies blindly following the bs line that it had to be a rogue bat in the fields.

You mean like how all the avian flus and pig flus happened? Or were all those also some kind of conspiracy by the chinese?

 

[pgg]

This is one of the worst cases of hearing hoofbeats and looking for zebras. As Stewart says, Hmm sounds like The Wuhan Corona Virus maybe originated from the Wuhan Virology Institute that studies, wait for it..... The Corona Virus!!!

The hoofbeats in this one are as loud as Secretariat winning the Belmont.

Is there evidence from someplace other than Tucker Carlson or the Epoch Times or Infowars that the virus was engineered by Chinese scientists?

I don't think it's crazy implausible that at some point a sample of the virus was being studied at the lab there - it actually seems pretty likely, the same way I'd expect to find samples of the virus at the CDC right now - but that's a far cry from "China engineered a bioweapon and let it loose for malicious or incompetent reasons".

And keep in kind that I already favor an emphatic "**** China" foreign policy on principle for all the other horrible evil things they do. I'm all for a scorched earth economic trade war and sanctions and middle fingers gratuitously extended at the UN, because **** the CCP and every corrupt antifreedom oppressive thieving genociding horse they rode in on. I'm not exactly an apologist or defender of that regime.

But I don't blame them for COVID, because I'm not a partisan Trump cultist hack.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

hahaha

You should read up on history and see how much misery and death the united states has inflicted on the world. The cia alone is responsible for the destabilization of many countries and for many deaths. That's what happens when you're the hegemon, you can do as you like with no consequences. That post is just realistic.

So why help other countries? Or others? Gotta take care of myself first....jus bein realistic. I like this argument style!

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Ok if you want to take that position answer the question—what do you think should be done? China is already executing millions of people through ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs and Tibet and has empowered a madman to commit mass murder in North Korea and we have done nothing. Why is this different, because Americans died this time? Do you think less people will die if we start a war with a nuclear armed foe?

Step 1. Don’t send the lab money. Would that be a good start?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

You mean like how all the avian flus and pig flus happened? Or were all those also some kind of conspiracy by the chinese?

You are responding to his reply that conceded that it was likely from the lab. In that line of discussion, you can’t concede the point then not concede it. That is intellectually disingenuous.

 

[chessknt]

Step 1. Don’t send the lab money. Would that be a good start?

So that is the righteous retribution for crimes against the world, take away the labs money that they don’t need?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Is there evidence from someplace other than Tucker Carlson or the Epoch Times or Infowars that the virus was engineered by Chinese scientists?

I don't think it's crazy implausible that at some point a sample of the virus was being studied at the lab there - it actually seems pretty likely, the same way I'd expect to find samples of the virus at the CDC right now - but that's a far cry from "China engineered a bioweapon and let it loose for malicious or incompetent reasons".

And keep in kind that I already favor an emphatic "**** China" foreign policy on principle for all the other horrible evil things they do. I'm all for a scorched earth economic trade war and sanctions and middle fingers gratuitously extended at the UN, because **** the CCP and every corrupt antifreedom oppressive thieving genociding horse they rode in on. I'm not exactly an apologist or defender of that regime.

But I don't blame them for COVID, because I'm not a partisan Trump cultist hack.

I agree with most of this. But if I had to guess, I am betting it was from lab rather than wet market. There is no proof that neither way happened. The way that China covered it up and blamed the US military for starting makes me think that they are to blame more than anything.

Regardless, I don’t believe they unleashed it purposefully. They would release it from Europe or other place if they were intentionally doing it. They just most likely did it ineptly.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

So that is the righteous retribution for crimes against the world, take away the labs money that they don’t need?

Would that be a good start? Oh. You don’t even want to answer that. You would rather kowtow!

I am fine with pgg response to China that was posted above. You would rather take it

 

[Southpaw]

I agree with most of this. But if I had to guess, I am betting it was from lab rather than wet market. There is no proof that neither way happened. The way that China covered it up and blamed the US military for starting makes me think that they are to blame more than anything.

Regardless, I don’t believe they unleashed it purposefully. They would release it from Europe or other place if they were intentionally doing it. They just most likely did it ineptly.

It's pretty stupid to play the age old American political game (liberals think this and therefore conservatives will adopt the direct opposite view simply for the sake of disagreement) with where the virus came from. I really don't think it matters. The larger problem to me is China and no ones desire to hold them responsible for any of the horrible atrocities they commit. You can argue lab vs nature til you're blue in the face, but it doesn't matter because neither side is willing to hold China responsible. However, arguing til you're blue in the face helps Trump so keep doing it, I guess.

Also, that Jon Stewart video is gold. I don't think Colbert was uncomfortable for one single second of it. He actually made a good point with the Daytona Beach Herpes lab....

 

[pgg]

I agree with most of this. But if I had to guess, I am betting it was from lab rather than wet market. There is no proof that neither way happened. The way that China covered it up and blamed the US military for starting makes me think that they are to blame more than anything.

Regardless, I don’t believe they unleashed it purposefully. They would release it from Europe or other place if they were intentionally doing it. They just most likely did it ineptly.

China, in their typically CCP-evil fashion, absolutely tried to cover things up early on, to the point of punishing their own doctors and scientists who said something was happening in Wuhan. They deserve blame and criticism for that. Alhough in truth, as contagious as this thing is, it seems like it wasn't containable at that point even if they'd been completely transparent.

Anyway, what are you going to do?

I actually don't really blame China for their cartoonish attempt to frame the US military. They're engaged in a cold war with us, of course they're going to seize upon any propaganda target of opportunity. I don't think that bit of obviously transparent bull**** means anything, one way or the other, about the origins of this pandemic.

But anyway, what are you going to do?

Was this an inept negligent lab accident, some kind of a bio-Chernobyl? Could be. Probably not. Maybe in 50 years if genuine democracy breaks out and the CCP is just a shameful memory kept alive by a few Chinese cultists wearing red MCGA hats, there'll be some kind of smoking gun verifiable documentation released to the world to provide some clarity. Today we have a good idea of what really happened at Chernobyl. Perhaps in the year 2067 we'll watch a Netflix documentary and get the whole story.

In the meantime, what are you going to do?

We have lots of uncontroversial, easy reasons to oppose China in big and small ways, ranging from their general regional assholishness to the murderous genocidal holocaust they're engaged in, and we can't be bothered. The people who are losing their minds over rumors and theories about China making COVID-19 in a lab, who also weren't calling for unrestricted trade wars and sanctions vs those bitches two years ago, perplex me. The screeching frothing about Fauci marks them as a cohort of idiots, not patriots.

 

[dhb]

Was this an inept negligent lab accident, some kind of a bio-Chernobyl?

I though everybody had gone 180 and it was now largely admitted that it was a leak from the lab (unintentional most probably) that just happens to study this virus and engage in gain of function studies.

 

[coffeebythelake]

I though everybody had gone 180 and it was now largely admitted that it was a leak from the lab (unintentional most probably) that just happens to study this virus and engage in gain of function studies.

I dont think there is any real evidence for this. Nothing new here. People are debating back and forth about could be, may be, but no facts either way.

As for Chinese government punishing it's doctors and whistle-blowers at the onset of the covid pandemic, this **** happens all the time in China. Any time there is anything that could embarass the central government they move to quash it to establish their authority.

 

[chessknt]

Would that be a good start? Oh. You don’t even want to answer that. You would rather kowtow!

I am fine with pgg response to China that was posted above. You would rather take it

Kowtow instead of what? I think you understand that the alternatives are very drastic if we take them alone. We can’t physically attack China and our ability to financially attack them has been crippled by our diminished position in Asia (which Trump did nothing to help btw). We simply cannot do anything to them alone that would be of any real consequence without triggering an Armageddon. A viral release or a genocide it doesn’t matter—We know their government is evil we just can’t do anything to stop it. The rest of the world is in the same spot, they either need Chinese money or manufacturing manpower and doing anything that would result in losing those is not going to happen. Life goes on.

Arguably the best effect of an intentional viral release they could have hoped for happened as we continue to tear ourselves apart. Our political system is disintegrating and our financial position looks precarious. If the USA topples over either by civil war or economic catastrophe then China is well poised to move in to the superpower void we would leave. It’s a good thing Tucker and infowars are so in tune with the needs of China and Russia to help them achieve that goal eh?