Oh shucks Fauci, didn't you learn that honesty trumps (oops...) politics?

[GassYous]

I though everybody had gone 180 and it was now largely admitted that it was a leak from the lab (unintentional most probably) that just happens to study this virus and engage in gain of function studies.

No...

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[D P356]

Step 1. Don’t send the lab money. Would that be a good start?

No.

Step 1: cut a hole in a box….



I agree with pgg. What are you (we) going to do about it.
It’s terrible that so many people lost their lives. Nothing will likely come of it to affect CCP on a macro scale.

If you punch a bully in the nose, you’d better be ready to finish it when they hit back.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Kowtow instead of what? I think you understand that the alternatives are very drastic if we take them alone. We can’t physically attack China and our ability to financially attack them has been crippled by our diminished position in Asia (which Trump did nothing to help btw). We simply cannot do anything to them alone that would be of any real consequence without triggering an Armageddon. A viral release or a genocide it doesn’t matter—We know their government is evil we just can’t do anything to stop it. The rest of the world is in the same spot, they either need Chinese money or manufacturing manpower and doing anything that would result in losing those is not going to happen. Life goes on.

Arguably the best effect of an intentional viral release they could have hoped for happened as we continue to tear ourselves apart. Our political system is disintegrating and our financial position looks precarious. If the USA topples over either by civil war or economic catastrophe then China is well poised to move in to the superpower void we would leave. It’s a good thing Tucker and infowars are so in tune with the needs of China and Russia to help them achieve that goal eh?

The tariffs were a great start. Nullifying our debt to them is another. Becoming self reliant on our manufacturing by manipulating the trade exactly how they do. Decreasing our reliance on rare metals. I would rather have no trade than the grossly unbalanced trade that we currently have. Play the long game instead of the short game.

It is funny that you blame Tucker and infowars (I watch neither) but don't blame China. You spread their propaganda for them like a good little communist. "Don't blame china wuhan coronavirus lab!" You blame Tucker/infowars instead of our politicians. Does Tucker/infowars truly have a greater impact than our government? China is evil so don't blame them. But blame Tucker/infowars because they are the ones that are truly destabilizing our country???

Trump is bad and made things worse by confronting China? Biden is better b/c his son/brother/him takes China's money? I can't follow that reasoning. Thanks for trying though. We will just disagree.

 

[chessknt]

The tariffs were a great start. Nullifying our debt to them is another. Becoming self reliant on our manufacturing by manipulating the trade exactly how they do. Decreasing our reliance on rare metals. I would rather have no trade than the grossly unbalanced trade that we currently have. Play the long game instead of the short game.

It is funny that you blame Tucker and infowars (I watch neither) but don't blame China. You spread their propaganda for them like a good little communist. "Don't blame china wuhan coronavirus lab!" You blame Tucker/infowars instead of our politicians. Does Tucker/infowars truly have a greater impact than our government? China is evil so don't blame them. But blame Tucker/infowars because they are the ones that are truly destabilizing our country???

Trump is bad and made things worse by confronting China? Biden is better b/c his son/brother/him takes China's money? I can't follow that reasoning. Thanks for trying though. We will just disagree.

I literally never made any of those points but to break it down a little:

Tariffs don't seem to have worked at all but maybe the Chinese are playing it down. Either way we were doing that before the pandemic so can't really say that is something new.

Nullifying our debt to them would be an act of financial war. That is banana republic third world tinpot anti-capitalist socialism right there. Do you really think that is a viable strategy?

Where is the labor going to come from for all of this American manufacturing business? We don't want unskilled immigrants and Americans wont work for $0.50/hour so how do we make that happen? You think Apple is going to be willing to pay assembly line workers $30/hr with benefits and charge 2k for an iphone just so it can be made in America? I dont.


I do blame China but this entire lab origin controversy being fanned by the far right personalities is ironically doing exactly what China wants--It shifts emphasis away from them and on to each other--were the Democrats hiding this? Why do liberals hate the truth? Can scientists even be trusted? Nobody is actually thinking about China they are thinking about the opposite end of the political spectrum in the USA which has been going on ad nauseum since 2016. Tucker is propagating 'us vs them' except he made an enemy out of your neighbors instead of the real problem.

 

[dhb]

No...

So they are milking cows next door but your cheese was laid by a hen?

 

[pgg]

Trump is bad and made things worse by confronting China?

Trump was a mixed bag with regard to China.

On one hand he was willing to confront them, but like most of his confrontations, it was ill-planned and ill-executed. But better than nothing.

A larger problem was his withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership. This was a trade agreement with a number of countries specifically to counter China's influence and he killed it. I don't know if he did so because it was an Obama-era agreement, or because he was just intent on renegotiating all of our trade agreements (e.g. NAFTA). In this, as in so many other things, he was simply incompetent.

Trump was and is a turd, but I'll give him credit where credit is due. And there's some but not much credit to give him concerning China.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I literally never made any of those points but to break it down a little:

Tariffs don't seem to have worked at all but maybe the Chinese are playing it down. Either way we were doing that before the pandemic so can't really say that is something new.

Nullifying our debt to them would be an act of financial war. That is banana republic third world tinpot anti-capitalist socialism right there. Do you really think that is a viable strategy?

Where is the labor going to come from for all of this American manufacturing business? We don't want unskilled immigrants and Americans wont work for $0.50/hour so how do we make that happen? You think Apple is going to be willing to pay assembly line workers $30/hr with benefits and charge 2k for an iphone just so it can be made in America? I dont.


I do blame China but this entire lab origin controversy being fanned by the far right personalities is ironically doing exactly what China wants--It shifts emphasis away from them and on to each other--were the Democrats hiding this? Why do liberals hate the truth? Can scientists even be trusted? Nobody is actually thinking about China they are thinking about the opposite end of the political spectrum in the USA which has been going on ad nauseum since 2016. Tucker is propagating 'us vs them' except he made an enemy out of your neighbors instead of the real problem.

Tariffs. If it is not hurting them then they shouldn't mind, but I don't believe them.

Yes. We are already at financial war.... but we are the only ones not taking it seriously. There is many ways to deal with it. You don't have to nullify it, but you can send a bill. Preferably carbon copy. If they refuse then you can talk about offsetting. To let them continue manipulation is a slow death.

Raise the minimum wage to $30/hr. That will be good for companies and citizens, right?? (sarcasm). Being serious, people will work. You have to cut unnecessary entitlement bullcrap.

I say we fan the truth and let the chips fall where they may. I will have to take your word on Tucker. I believe people are still smart enough to realize the leak was from a lab and someone may have been covering up without getting confused. By this logic, they should have never pursued the Russian Steele Dossier since it shifted the attention away from Russia and on to our POTUS. This thinking puzzles me to no end.

 

[deleted162650]

So they are milking cows next door but your cheese was laid by a hen?

I don’t know what this means, but I’m going to start saying it.

 

[deleted875186]

Wow, just read through the thread and realize how ridiculous and bias we are.

There is absolutely no evidence that the virus came from nature or from a lab at this point, just speculation. History would favor from nature, through some third species on its way fron bats to humans, that species may not be discovered for some time.

I will also say I find it ridiculous a bunch of anesthesiologists think because they are MDs they must be experts in virology and public health.

 

[chessknt]

Trump was a mixed bag with regard to China.

On one hand he was willing to confront them, but like most of his confrontations, it was ill-planned and ill-executed. But better than nothing.

A larger problem was his withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership. This was a trade agreement with a number of countries specifically to counter China's influence and he killed it. I don't know if he did so because it was an Obama-era agreement, or because he was just intent on renegotiating all of our trade agreements (e.g. NAFTA). In this, as in so many other things, he was simply incompetent.

Trump was and is a turd, but I'll give him credit where credit is due. And there's some but not much credit to give him concerning China.

This is so true and people tend to forget because it was one of his first acts in office. I was baffled by the TPP unilateral withdrawal in favor of nothing under the ruse of America first. Basically opened the door for China to expand unchecked in the area and was beyond stupid. His after the fact tariffs did next to nothing to make up for this.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Is there evidence from someplace other than Tucker Carlson or the Epoch Times or Infowars that the virus was engineered by Chinese scientists?

Completely distorting my statements which usually isn't like you.

There's no evidence it came from a bat but the partisan bot line has been to be 100% sure it came from a bat otherwise you are an Alex Jones Trump whacko... which is incredible closed minded and stupid.

I do not have an emotional stake in it either way and don't know the answer, but the hoofbeats are clearly there. Of all the places in the entire world a bat could have spontaneously started the pandemic, it's in the city of a very large coronavirus lab, and covered up by the country as best as possible till it couldn't be surpressed. How does that raise zero suspicion among so many critical thinkers?

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

He actually made a good point with the Daytona Beach Herpes lab....

He actually made no point at all unless you are looking for any reason to dismiss what Stewart is saying.

 

[Southpaw]

He actually made no point at all unless you are looking for any reason to dismiss what Stewart is saying.

dude. They’re joking around and having a good time. Everyone was laughing. Yes, there is some truth in the convo. But for Christ’s sake, just relax and quit dismissing a comedian’s words because you don’t like the politics of them.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Trump was a mixed bag with regard to China.

On one hand he was willing to confront them, but like most of his confrontations, it was ill-planned and ill-executed. But better than nothing.

A larger problem was his withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership. This was a trade agreement with a number of countries specifically to counter China's influence and he killed it. I don't know if he did so because it was an Obama-era agreement, or because he was just intent on renegotiating all of our trade agreements (e.g. NAFTA). In this, as in so many other things, he was simply incompetent.

Trump was and is a turd, but I'll give him credit where credit is due. And there's some but not much credit to give him concerning China.

He killed it because he is so petty that he needed to reverse his predecessor’s policies just to sooth his ego, even if he had no understanding of the real issues at hand.

 

[vector2]

Nullifying our debt to them would be an act of financial war.

Nullifying our debt to them would be a hair's breadth short of armageddon, and that's not an exaggeration.

Don't underestimate the fact that global stability (and not just the economic kind) depends on whether the United States can and will pay a dollar that it owes someone.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Nullifying our debt to them would be a hair's breadth short of armageddon, and that's not an exaggeration.

Don't underestimate the fact that global stability (and not just the economic kind) depends on whether the United States can and will pay a dollar that it owes someone.

Agreed. Can't simply not pay them back. But let's be clear, the US is never paying it's debt period unless it's some massively diluted Monopoly money. We can't even stop the debt from exponentially growing let alone pay any of it down. I think investing in US debt today is downright foolish. You're never going to be repaid long term in real dollars equivalency.

(Pretty sure the words agreed and Vector have never appeared by me in the same post, but hey, first time for everything, right?)

 

[epidural man]

Those who don’t understand the evidences for lab leak should read up on it. Also read about really smart virologists who have spoke up about it. Also read up on why that answer became a conspiracy theory.

it doesn’t matter. No one who follows this stuff thinks China did it on purpose. The gain of function was funded partly by US.

the real issue is that lab leak is VERY PLAUSIBLE, and yet you would be banned from YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc up to four months ago for even suggesting it. THAT is a huge problem. That is what is extremely concerning. No press would mention it.

 

[deleted875186]

Those who don’t understand the evidences for lab leak should read up on it. Also read about really smart virologists who have spoke up about it. Also read up on why that answer became a conspiracy theory.

it doesn’t matter. No one who follows this stuff thinks China did it on purpose. The gain of function was funded partly by US.

the real issue is that lab leak is VERY PLAUSIBLE, and yet you would be banned from YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc up to four months ago for even suggesting it. THAT is a huge problem. That is what is extremely concerning. No press would mention it.

Why don’t you post some links or actually tell us what evidence there is beyond a bunch of speculation.

The nature theory is thought of as more likely because viruses mutate all the time, the huge amount of corona virus that exist in nature far outweigh anything found in a lab.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

dude. They’re joking around and having a good time. Everyone was laughing. Yes, there is some truth in the convo. But for Christ’s sake, just relax and quit dismissing a comedian’s words because you don’t like the politics of them.

I think the point was to quit dismissing the comedian's words because you don't like the politics of them. Funny enough, this can apply to both.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Those who don’t understand the evidences for lab leak should read up on it. Also read about really smart virologists who have spoke up about it. Also read up on why that answer became a conspiracy theory.

it doesn’t matter. No one who follows this stuff thinks China did it on purpose. The gain of function was funded partly by US.

the real issue is that lab leak is VERY PLAUSIBLE, and yet you would be banned from YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc up to four months ago for even suggesting it. THAT is a huge problem. That is what is extremely concerning. No press would mention it.

Again there is an opinion among some individual scientists that there is a lab leak, possibly from sloppy biohazard management. The only real compelling evidence / coincidence (depending on your take) is that a research lab in Wuhan studied coronavirus.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Of all the places in the entire world a bat could have spontaneously started the pandemic, it's in the city of a very large coronavirus lab, and covered up by the country as best as possible till it couldn't be surpressed. How does that raise zero suspicion among so many critical thinkers?

Yes it is possible, but where people debate is the likelihood of it being true. possible doesn't mean that's what actually happened. The bigger the claim the more evidence is needed to support it. And while it is easy to say whoopee a coronavirus lab in the same city where the pandemic started is the smoking gun, it is important to look more than just the sound bite. For instance, how many labs exist in China and the world that study coronavirus?

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

The only real compelling evidence / coincidence (depending on your take) is that a research lab in Wuhan studied coronavirus.

I would also add to that China's intense effort to cover everything up and not being forthright to this day.

Is that definitive proof? No. But it certainly falls under very suspicious.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

He killed it because he is so petty that he needed to reverse his predecessor’s policies just to sooth his ego, even if he had no understanding of the real issues at hand.

I think you just accurately described the presidency in my lifetime, certainly the current and previous to a tee.

 

[coffeebythelake]

I would also add to that China's intense effort to cover everything up and not being forthright to this day.

Is that definitive proof? No. But it certainly falls under very suspicious.

The CCP tries to cover everything up. Even seemingly stupid things. Suspicious? Maybe.

 

[vector2]

The CCP tries to cover everything up. Even seemingly stupid things. Suspicious? Maybe.

Xi has intensely tried to censor every possible internet and media comparison of himself and Winnie the Pooh.

Indeed, the the CCP trying to cover up something doesn't even begin to meet the standard of being slam dunk evidence.


E, for posterity:

 

[deleted162650]

Xi has intensely tried to censor every possible internet and media comparison of himself and Winnie the Pooh.

Indeed, the the CCP trying to cover up something doesn't even begin to meet the standard of being slam dunk evidence.


E, for posterity:

View attachment 339424

Well. . . nice knowin’ ya, Vector.

 

[epidural man]

Why don’t you post some links or actually tell us what evidence there is beyond a bunch of speculation.

The nature theory is thought of as more likely because viruses mutate all the time, the huge amount of corona virus that exist in nature far outweigh anything found in a lab.

I'll work on it.
There is a lot of info to compile.

 

[deleted697127]

I'll work on it.
There is a lot of info to compile.

I’ll play along and use my brain as a physician. This is the PI in Wuhan implicated in doing gain of function research funded by the NIH. They collected bats from all over China and put them in close quarters. Coronaviruses obviously spread very easily. Bringing these bats and their Coronaviruses into close quarters where they have the potential to experience “natural evolution” together…hmm nothing to see here

“This virus also provides evidence for a natural recombination event between the bat MERS-related CoV and another bat coronavirus, HKU4.”

Discovery of Novel Bat Coronaviruses in South China That Use the Same Receptor as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus

Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) has represented a human health threat since 2012. Although several MERS-related CoVs that belong to the same species as MERS-CoV have been identified from bats, they do not use the MERS-CoV receptor, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Discovery of Novel Bat Coronaviruses in South China That Use the Same Receptor as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus​

Chu-Ming Luo, Ning Wang, [...], and Zheng-Li Shi

Additional article information

ABSTRACT​

Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) has represented a human health threat since 2012. Although several MERS-related CoVs that belong to the same species as MERS-CoV have been identified from bats, they do not use the MERS-CoV receptor, dipeptidyl peptidase 4 (DPP4). Here, we screened 1,059 bat samples from at least 30 bat species collected in different regions in south China and identified 89 strains of lineage C betacoronaviruses, including Tylonycteris pachypus coronavirus HKU4, Pipistrellus pipistrellus coronavirus HKU5, and MERS-related CoVs. We sequenced the full-length genomes of two positive samples collected from the great evening bat, Ia io, from Guangdong Province. The two genomes were highly similar and exhibited genomic structures identical to those of other lineage C betacoronaviruses. While they exhibited genome-wide nucleotide identities of only 75.3 to 81.2% with other MERS-related CoVs, their gene-coding regions were highly similar to their counterparts, except in the case of the spike proteins. Further protein-protein interaction assays demonstrated that the spike proteins of these MERS-related CoVs bind to the receptor DPP4. Recombination analysis suggested that the newly discovered MERS-related CoVs have acquired their spike genes from a DPP4-recognizing bat coronavirus HKU4. Our study provides further evidence that bats represent the evolutionary origins of MERS-CoV.
IMPORTANCE Previous studies suggested that MERS-CoV originated in bats. However, its evolutionary path from bats to humans remains unclear. In this study, we discovered 89 novel lineage C betacoronaviruses in eight bat species. We provide evidence of a MERS-related CoV derived from the great evening bat that uses the same host receptor as human MERS-CoV. This virus also provides evidence for a natural recombination event between the bat MERS-related CoV and another bat coronavirus, HKU4. Our study expands the host ranges of MERS-related CoV and represents an important step toward establishing bats as the natural reservoir of MERS-CoV. These findings may lead to improved epidemiological surveillance of MERS-CoV and the prevention and control of the spread of MERS-CoV to humans.

 

[deleted875186]

I’ll play along and use my brain as a physician. This is the PI in Wuhan implicated in doing gain of function research funded by the NIH. They collected bats from all over China and put them in close quarters. Coronaviruses obviously spread very easily. Bringing these bats and their Coronaviruses into close quarters where they have the potential to experience “natural evolution” together…hmm nothing to see here

“This virus also provides evidence for a natural recombination event between the bat MERS-related CoV and another bat coronavirus, HKU4.”

Discovery of Novel Bat Coronaviruses in South China That Use the Same Receptor as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus

Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) has represented a human health threat since 2012. Although several MERS-related CoVs that belong to the same species as MERS-CoV have been identified from bats, they do not use the MERS-CoV receptor, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Discovery of Novel Bat Coronaviruses in South China That Use the Same Receptor as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus​

Chu-Ming Luo, Ning Wang, [...], and Zheng-Li Shi

Additional article information

ABSTRACT​

Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) has represented a human health threat since 2012. Although several MERS-related CoVs that belong to the same species as MERS-CoV have been identified from bats, they do not use the MERS-CoV receptor, dipeptidyl peptidase 4 (DPP4). Here, we screened 1,059 bat samples from at least 30 bat species collected in different regions in south China and identified 89 strains of lineage C betacoronaviruses, including Tylonycteris pachypus coronavirus HKU4, Pipistrellus pipistrellus coronavirus HKU5, and MERS-related CoVs. We sequenced the full-length genomes of two positive samples collected from the great evening bat, Ia io, from Guangdong Province. The two genomes were highly similar and exhibited genomic structures identical to those of other lineage C betacoronaviruses. While they exhibited genome-wide nucleotide identities of only 75.3 to 81.2% with other MERS-related CoVs, their gene-coding regions were highly similar to their counterparts, except in the case of the spike proteins. Further protein-protein interaction assays demonstrated that the spike proteins of these MERS-related CoVs bind to the receptor DPP4. Recombination analysis suggested that the newly discovered MERS-related CoVs have acquired their spike genes from a DPP4-recognizing bat coronavirus HKU4. Our study provides further evidence that bats represent the evolutionary origins of MERS-CoV.
IMPORTANCE Previous studies suggested that MERS-CoV originated in bats. However, its evolutionary path from bats to humans remains unclear. In this study, we discovered 89 novel lineage C betacoronaviruses in eight bat species. We provide evidence of a MERS-related CoV derived from the great evening bat that uses the same host receptor as human MERS-CoV. This virus also provides evidence for a natural recombination event between the bat MERS-related CoV and another bat coronavirus, HKU4. Our study expands the host ranges of MERS-related CoV and represents an important step toward establishing bats as the natural reservoir of MERS-CoV. These findings may lead to improved epidemiological surveillance of MERS-CoV and the prevention and control of the spread of MERS-CoV to humans.

Ok, so what?

maybe the virus came from the lab, but this info does nothing to support that notion. The same process is happening in nature very frequently, hence why Wuhan has a lab studying it.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Ok, so what?

maybe the virus came from the lab, but this info does nothing to support that notion. The same process is happening in nature very frequently, hence why Wuhan has a lab studying it.

I have a relative not in the immediate family that asked me my opinion on his case. He had radiation treatment that passed through the spine to kill a lesion. On radiologic follow-up a year later they found something suspicious that they called probable cancer in the exact same location the radiation passed through. Found nothing else.

I'm not an oncologist or a radiologist (or a virologist) but I understand odds. I told him I find it highly unlikely the only suspicious recurrent "cancer" lesion in his entire body is in the exact same spot you have previous radiation. Too coincidental. Radiation changes in the bone is what they are looking at... It was.

Too coincidental.
Just my opinion of course.

 

[deleted875186]

I have a relative not in the immediate family that asked me my opinion on his case. He had radiation treatment that passed through the spine to kill a lesion. On radiologic follow-up a year later they found something suspicious that they called probable cancer in the exact same location the radiation passed through. Found nothing else.

I'm not an oncologist or a radiologist (or a virologist) but I understand odds. I told him I find it highly unlikely the only suspicious recurrent "cancer" lesion in his entire body is in the exact same spot you have previous radiation. Too coincidental. Radiation changes in the bone is what they are looking at... It was.

Too coincidental.
Just my opinion of course.

I hear you.

but appreciate that unless we areexperts in virology, perhaps we don’t truely understand the odds that this virus came from nature. Do we really know how many coronavirus mutations exist in the bats in Wuhan?

I agree it is suspicious, but we should be basing our arguements in facts.

 

[deleted697127]

I hear you.

but appreciate that unless we areexperts in virology, perhaps we don’t truely understand the odds that this virus came from nature. Do we really know how many coronavirus mutations exist in the bats in Wuhan?

I agree it is suspicious, but we should be basing our arguements in facts.

How about this one clearly implicating Baric, Daszic, and the NIH? Also, we’re physicians who literally did recieve training in virology. If we’re not credentialed enough to think and question what we’re being told in the media, who is?

Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research - Nature

Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.

www.nature.com

 

[coffeebythelake]

How about this one clearly implicating Baric, Daszic, and the NIH? Also, we’re physicians who literally did recieve training in virology. If we’re not credentialed enough to think and question what we’re being told in the media, who is?

Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research - Nature

Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.

www.nature.com

I don't think most physicians can claim to be experts in virology. Unless you have a PhD or studied viruses in a lab... not from a lecture with PowerPoint slides... our knowledge base relating to the field of virology is elementary at best.

 

[deleted697127]

I don't think most physicians can claim to be experts in virology. Unless you have a PhD or studied viruses in a lab... not from a lecture with PowerPoint slides... our knowledge base relating to the field of virology is elementary at best.

I’m not claiming we’re experts but we did learn what viral recombination is.

“Viral recombination occurs when viruses of two different parent strains coinfect the same host cell and interact during replication to generate virus progeny that have some genes from both parents.”

And then we have the facts: We have a bunch of scientists who were told in Nature that their research is dangerous and looks like it could cause a pandemic. They go into caves and get all the coronaviruses they can find together in one lab. Their research gets banned. They continue it. 3 people get sick in the lab conducting research on coronaviruses in the city the pandemic started in. Chinese governement won’t let us investigate this or the lab. The scientists who were implicated by name prior to the pandemic in continuing dangerous research get together on a secret phone call and over the course of 3 days singlehandedly decide that their research couldn’t have been the cause and push natural evolution in the media.

These are all facts. Is it natural evolution for bats and coronaviruses from all over China to be collected and brought together? That doesn’t really seem natural. So what if we find the origin is coronavirus DNA that came from a cave? It still would seem like the most likely people to have brought that coronavirus from the cave to Wuhan and most likely place for this “natural” recombination event to have occurred would be in that lab in the city where the pandemic started.

Maybe if we stayed out of the damn caves, the coronaviruses would’ve stayed there.

 

[deleted697127]

I don't think most physicians can claim to be experts in virology. Unless you have a PhD or studied viruses in a lab... not from a lecture with PowerPoint slides... our knowledge base relating to the field of virology is elementary at best.

So with that logic can PhD virulogists wave their hands and claim incompetence at understanding how viruses interact with the human body and cause disease because they’re not physicians?

 

[coffeebythelake]

So with that logic can PhD virulogists wave their hands and claim incompetence at understanding how viruses interact with the human body and cause disease because they’re not physicians?

If the PhD virologist only study molecular interactions of viruses then their clinical knowledge wouldn't be the same as an infectious disease physician who deals with patients infected with said viruses. I never said anything about incompetence. I said a basic understanding and knowledge of the topic. That's still a lot more than what a lay person would have.

 

[deleted875186]

How about this one clearly implicating Baric, Daszic, and the NIH? Also, we’re physicians who literally did recieve training in virology. If we’re not credentialed enough to think and question what we’re being told in the media, who is?

Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research - Nature

Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.

www.nature.com

Did you even read the article?

“The findings reinforce suspicions that bat coronaviruses capable of directly infecting humans (rather than first needing to evolve in an intermediate animal host) may be more common than previously thought, the researchers say.”

the arguement whether the research being done is worth the risk is an entirely separate argument. As I stated before, none of this stuff reinforces the speculation that covid escaped from a lab.

 

[chessknt]

So with that logic can PhD virulogists wave their hands and claim incompetence at understanding how viruses interact with the human body and cause disease because they’re not physicians?

Do you claim to have expertise to understand the synthesis of the medications you push or the manufacturing process of syringes you use just because you interact with them and at some remote point in the past studied biochemistry and plastic manufacture at a superficial level?

 

[deleted875186]

So with that logic can PhD virulogists wave their hands and claim incompetence at understanding how viruses interact with the human body and cause disease because they’re not physicians?

I think what you just described is literally the field of virology ….

 

[deleted697127]

Did you even read the article?

“The findings reinforce suspicions that bat coronaviruses capable of directly infecting humans (rather than first needing to evolve in an intermediate animal host) may be more common than previously thought, the researchers say.”

the arguement whether the research being done is worth the risk is an entirely separate argument. As I stated before, none of this stuff reinforces the speculation that covid escaped from a lab.

This is the argument.

 

[gasdoc77]

I think what you just described is literally the field of virology ….

In that case I suppose the entire population should not worry about diet and exercise since they don't have formal education in either. We should simply take a pill for each ailment as they inevitably arise. What level of evidence is common sense after all? Pharma is looking out for us. It's worked so far LOL.

 

[chessknt]

In that case I suppose the entire population should not worry about diet and exercise since they don't have formal education in either. We should simply take a pill for each ailment as they inevitably arise. What level of evidence is common sense after all? Pharma is looking out for us. It's worked so far LOL.

Huh? How do you compare viral genetic recombination to whether or not eating McDonald’s is good for you? Not even in the same galaxy of complexity.

 

[gasdoc77]

Huh? How do you compare viral genetic recombination to whether or not eating McDonald’s is good for you? Not even in the same galaxy of complexity.

The fact that you think that was my point says all that needs to be said.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Saw this in the news earlier today

The last and only foreign scientist in the Wuhan lab speaks out

Australian researcher Danielle Anderson has an insider’s perspective on a place that’s become a flashpoint in the search for what caused the worst pandemic in a century.

www.afr.com

 

[abolt18]

Saw this in the news earlier today

The last and only foreign scientist in the Wuhan lab speaks out

Australian researcher Danielle Anderson has an insider’s perspective on a place that’s become a flashpoint in the search for what caused the worst pandemic in a century.

www.afr.com

What does it say? Couldn't access it.

 

[nimbus]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9.pdf

 

[nimbus]

What does it say? Couldn't access it.

Wuhan Scientist: I Don't Believe the Virus Was Manmade

“I do not believe the virus was manmade.” Danielle Anderson, the Wuhan Institute of Virology's last foreign scientist, left just before the #Covid19 pandemic. For the first time, she shares her story on China’s infamous lab (Source: Quicktake)

www.bloomberg.com

Last foreign scientist to work at Wuhan lab: ‘What people are saying is just not how it is’

The last foreign scientist to work at the Wuhan Institute of Virology spoke out for the first time in an interview with Bloomberg published on Sunday, telling the publication, “What people ar…

thehill.com

 

[deleted162650]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9.pdf

Good article though admittedly over my head.

The fact that there were no bats or pangolins at the Wuhan wet-market still leaves us with a great big question mark however.

 

[deleted697127]

NIH admits US funded gain-of-function in Wuhan — despite Fauci’s denials

The National Institute of Health has now stunningly admitted to funding gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses at China’s Wuhan lab.

nypost.com

 

[BobLoblaw78]

This article is stupid bc….We didn’t need NIH to tell us this to know the truth. Critical thinking should’ve let everyone know the truth long ago.

But everyone has to play politics- deny, call the other person a liar, call the other person dumb and obfuscate. (Talking about Fauci but also many others).