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Ohio GOP lawmaker fired from ER job over remarks about ‘colored population’ and covid-19

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Lexdiamondz

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I don't think TH should've fired him for that. He's obviously (at best) a bumblef>ck hillbilly with w/ racist tendencies, but this really shows how our country needs stronger workplace protections to prevent this type of corporate overreach and sociopathy.

TeamHealth is a CMG and medicine is a business to them - some dude saying "coloured people" are dirty on television is bad for business.

I agree you shouldn't lose your job for your private beliefs but when you act up in public your employer should have the right to disassociate with you for being a liability to them.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr

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Please define act up in public. This guy may have been a doofus, but he did nothing illegal. Where do you suggest the line should be drawn?
Wherever the business decides?

Don't misread, I wish we lived in a world where people could say stupid things and not have to be fired to placate the mobs.

I live in at at-will state. Barring contractual obligations, I could be fired tomorrow for absolutely no reason and that's perfectly legal.
 
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Lexdiamondz

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Please define act up in public. This guy may have been a doofus, but he did nothing illegal. Where do you suggest the line should be drawn?

I don't think anyone has an answer for that - the line is probably somewhere between " I posted a rant on Reddit about Blacks using a pseudonym" and "Anjali Ramkisson" (google her if you haven't heard that story).

I think that as much as we champion the right to free speech in a civil society, your employer should also have the right to say who they do and don't associate with - especially if an employee's free speech can cause them to lose business.
 
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GeneralVeers

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Why is racism being declared a public health crisis lol?

Also defunding the police doesn’t mean what people typically think it means.

Defund the police is silly regardless of your definition.

As for racism, since it's a "public health crisis" should we now have police bring both victims and perpetrators of racism to the ED as apparently it's a disease now? I
 
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Lexdiamondz

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Defund the police is silly regardless of your definition.

As for racism, since it's a "public health crisis" should we now have police bring both victims and perpetrators of racism to the ED as apparently it's a disease now? I

Saying something is a public health crisis isn't the same as saying something is a disease. You know better than this.
 
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bearstanley

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Please define act up in public. This guy may have been a doofus, but he did nothing illegal. Where do you suggest the line should be drawn?


i think saying "black people are dirty and don't wash their hands enough" is a pretty reasonable place to draw the line. it's not that hard to not say racist **** in public, i've been able to do it my entire life without even trying.

world's smallest violin and a tiny, sad song for this idiot.
 
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Brigade4Radiant

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Defund the police is silly regardless of your definition.

As for racism, since it's a "public health crisis" should we now have police bring both victims and perpetrators of racism to the ED as apparently it's a disease now?

I don’t think it is. Could you explain why? Camden New Jersey did just that I don’t think the results are silly at all.

For your second point what would having the police to the ED? Do we do it with opiates? Do we do it with obesity?

Racism does play a part in health disparities which do result in increase visits to the ED:
 
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NYEMMED

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I don’t think it is. Could you explain why? Camden New Jersey did just that I don’t think the results are silly at all.

For your second point what would having the police to the ED? Do we do it with opiates? Do we do it with obesity?

Racism does play a part in health disparities which do result in increase visits to the ED:


Camden is really not an example people should be using. Ive lived near Camden, Its not a place many people want to walk around in, It is not a safe place and still has one of the highest crime rates in the entire state
 
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Brigade4Radiant

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Camden is really not an example people should be using. Ive lived near Camden, Its not a place many people want to walk around in, It is not a safe place and still has one of the highest crime rates in the entire state


Yeah it’s unsafe but crime rates decreased by roughly 50% so why not use it as an example?

If anything that makes it a better example due to the extremely high crime rate.
 
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GeneralVeers

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I'd say socialism should be declared a public health crisis as well. Look at all of the premature deaths in Canada and the UK due to socialist ideas.

Likewise, the Democratic party is a public health crisis based on their support of violence, looting, and assault in the last few weeks. I could go on.....
 
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NYEMMED

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Yeah it’s unsafe but crime rates decreased by roughly 50% so why not use it as an example?

If anything that makes it a better example due to the extremely high crime rate.


The entire thing is misleading.
They disbanded the Camden city police force to rehire the same officers into a county police force system. Thereby they had the funding to add even more officers. The size of the new police force rose exponentially (larger and more police than before). The other motive was now the entire county paid for that police force, which could not have grown so large without the added tax base...
 
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Brigade4Radiant

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The entire thing is misleading.
They disbanded the Camden city police force to rehire the same officers into a county police force system. Thereby they had the funding to add even more officers. The size of the new police force rose exponentially (larger and more police than before). The other motive was now the entire county paid for that police force, which could not have grown so large without the added tax base...

The thing is that Camden county was providing the new police service. Camden county covers 504k people and Camden has 70k people. Also they changed their tactics similarly to how they police the county such as having more community involvement.

Even after this police per civilian in Camden decreased
 

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It's 2020. My advice:

Don't open your mouth about anything related to race. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if the words are severely offensive, false and intended to hurt. It doesn't matter if the words are totally innocuous, true or intended to gain favor. Although it seems words should be able to help. they can't. Don't do it. Nothing good can come of it. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Cero. Nula. 零. صِفْرٌ. Zero. Don't say, imply or intimate anything about race. Period. Doing so, is at your own risk.
 
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Brigade4Radiant

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It's 2020. My advice:

Don't open your mouth about anything related to race. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if the words are severely offensive, false and intended to hurt. It doesn't matter if the words are totally innocuous, true or intended to gain favor. Although it seems words should be able to help. they can't. Don't do it. Nothing good can come of it. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Cero. Nula. 零. صِفْرٌ. Zero. Don't say, imply or intimate anything about race. Period. Doing so, is at your own risk.

Also no twitter you can be replaced for mouthing off to a nurse and cancel culture is real.

Also no be really rude to people you are videotaped until proven otherwise that ED physician got fired for a bad patient encounter.
 
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gamerEMdoc

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In America you have freedom of speech. He can say any dumb stuff he wants. But that doesn't mean corporations have to continue to employee you. Workplaces are usually very clear that you need to be careful on social media about things you post. Freedom of speech doesn't protect you from your employer firing you if you say something that is going to lose them business.

People in the public eye need to think before they risk their career. I personally think what he said was openly racist and completely tone-deaf for a politician in the current climate. But it is up to his companies decision of what to do with that, not mine, not SDNs, not twitter.
 
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deleted547339

i think saying "black people are dirty and don't wash their hands enough" is a pretty reasonable place to draw the line. it's not that hard to not say racist **** in public, i've been able to do it my entire life without even trying.

world's smallest violin and a tiny, sad song for this idiot.

Except that’s not what he said. And when people manipulate people’s words it only compounds the problem. Stop it.
 
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ShockIndex

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The entire thing is misleading.
They disbanded the Camden city police force to rehire the same officers into a county police force system. Thereby they had the funding to add even more officers. The size of the new police force rose exponentially (larger and more police than before). The other motive was now the entire county paid for that police force, which could not have grown so large without the added tax base...

This is correct. Reorganization is a better description of what Camden did. In doing so, they busted the police union contracts that were costing the city close to $180K per officer due to lucrative fringe benefits. The number of officers per capita went up.

What Camden did is the opposite of what Minneapolis, Seattle, Baltimore, and St. Louis are doing - more cops, more “broken windows” enforcement, etc.
 
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Franzd'Epinay

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What Camden did is the opposite of what Minneapolis, Seattle, Baltimore, and St. Louis are doing - more cops, more “broken windows” enforcement, etc. These are all things that make the BLM heads pop like a zit because they improve the lives of minorities living in the cities.

Everything that I've read says they explicitly wanted to move away from the old "broken windows" approach. Yes, they had more cops and more money, but they made significant efforts to fundamentally change the relationship between the police force and the community they serve.
 
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Brigade4Radiant

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But the race baiters and SJWs want to engage. Of course if you say anything they don't like you are a racist. Hence I avoid these discussions in public forums.

Please explain whose a race baiter and SJW are? Yeah SJWs typically face off against the Color Blind in topics like these.

This is correct. Reorganization is a better description of what Camden did. In doing so, they busted the police union contracts that were costing the city close to $180K per officer due to lucrative fringe benefits. The number of officers per capita went up.

What Camden did is the opposite of what Minneapolis, Seattle, Baltimore, and St. Louis are doing - more cops, more “broken windows” enforcement, etc. These are all things that make the BLM heads pop like a zit because they improve the lives of minorities living in the cities.

No they officers per capita didn’t go up since they are covering the county. It the city so the police force went down per capita also they changed how they policed.
 
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miacomet

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I have no idea what this guy meant, but under the best of circumstances I doubt if African-American patients would seek out such a physician, and his statements leave both him and his employer open to accusations of substandard care. Seems reasonable to terminate him.

If you need to feed your family and want to stay employed, don't say silly things. I wonder what he says in the ER? Or when the cameras aren't rolling?
 
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dadaddadaBATMAN

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I also don't understand why "SJW" is an insult. Don't we all want justice, social or otherwise?

It’s not the words themselves as much as the association. It’s similar to how republicans view the word “liberal” as a dirty thing. Sjw is associated in internet culture with pearl clutching and virtue signaling/Karen the great swooping in to save the day for those poor hapless minorities who can’t fend for themselves.

As to the topic at hand, I think he was trying to get at the idea that factors besides systemic racism may lead to worse outcomes for minorities, but chose a completely tactless way to approach it. Which is surprising since he made it at least a little way into politics.

I think it’s probably not “racist hospitals” causing bad outcomes for minorities, but rather that they are poor and have more chronic conditions, which probably does go back to an element of systemic racism.

Veers, I think the term systemic racism aims more at policy level decisions than at the entire populace itself. There were undoubtedly policies made at least through the 60s, and arguably much later, that are directly aimed at suppressing black people. Segregation and the slightly less obvious zoning regulations and voting tests etc. still have holdovers. That’s what I think of when I think of systemic racism.
 
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deleted547339

I also don't understand why "SJW" is an insult. Don't we all want justice, social or otherwise?

Social justice warrior comes with very specific connotations based on a very specific liberal worldview. It is not inherently someone who is “for justice” while others aren’t. It’s someone has a crusade to push their political agenda with moral superiority with a level of arrogance. For example, one could see free, immediately available abortions as promoting justice, while others could see ending abortion as promoting justice. That being said, a “social justice warrior” would venerate someone who promoted the former and think the latter is evil.
 
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bronx43

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The thing is that Camden county was providing the new police service. Camden county covers 504k people and Camden has 70k people. Also they changed their tactics similarly to how they police the county such as having more community involvement.

Even after this police per civilian in Camden decreased

According to publicly available information, the Camden County Police Department only patrols the city of Camden. From Wiki:

"It is sometimes referred to as the Metro Division even though, unlike many other metropolitan police forces in the United States, it presently does not patrol outside of the city. As a "county police" force, the department is available to all municipalities in Camden County on a voluntary basis; however, no other municipalities within Camden County have announced plans to join the county police district.[5][6]"

From Camden County Police Department website:
"Launched on May 1, 2013, the Camden County Police Department is the primary law enforcement agency for the City of Camden."

The other municipalities of Camden County have their own force. For example:
Cherry Hill - Cherry Hill Police Department
Gloucester Township - Gloucester Township Police Department
Winslow Township - Winslow Township Police Department
Voorhees Township - Voorhees Township Police Department

I agree with you on the change of tactics, however.
 

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Yes, political correctness has gone too far.

Yes, cancel culture has gotten out of hand.

But also, keep in mind just about all of us have signed an employment contract with some sort of clause that says we can be fired for any actions, and that includes public statements, that reflect bad on our employer. "Don't be an embarrassing ---hole" clauses are pretty standard.
 
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Rekt

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It's 2020. My advice:

Don't open your mouth about anything related to race. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if the words are severely offensive, false and intended to hurt. It doesn't matter if the words are totally innocuous, true or intended to gain favor. Although it seems words should be able to help. they can't. Don't do it. Nothing good can come of it. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Cero. Nula. 零. صِفْرٌ. Zero. Don't say, imply or intimate anything about race. Period. Doing so, is at your own risk.

We're in the era of silence. Pseudo-freespeech. Agree with the prevailing narrative of the vocal social media or suffer getting doxed and destroyed anyway they can help it.
 

Birdstrike

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Yes, political correctness has gone too far.

Yes, cancel culture has gotten out of hand.

But also, keep in mind just about all of us have signed an employment contract with some sort of clause that says we can be fired for any actions, and that includes public statements, that reflect bad on our employer. "Don't be an embarrassing ---hole" clauses are pretty standard.
As a side note, I think it would be pretty comical to try to negotiate that out prior to signing for a new job. "The job looks great, Sir. But I'm concerned about this one clause. It says I could get fired for saying dumb stuff. It appears I'm not a good fit for this job."
 
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GeneralVeers

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What exactly do you think systemic racism means? I'm not following how you got the bolded statement out of it.

The crux of the argument is that the "system" designed by Whites is inherently racist to minorities, and that all white people should atone for the original sin of being white and therefore inherently racist.

I'm still not sure what "racist" laws need to be changed, and the protesters haven't so far specified. Whites have so much guilt pounded into them by the media that they are reflexively apologizing and performing penance for imagined trangresssions:



 

Franzd'Epinay

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Yes, political correctness has gone too far.

Yes, cancel culture has gotten out of hand.

But also, keep in mind just about all of us have signed an employment contract with some sort of clause that says we can be fired for any actions, and that includes public statements, that reflect bad on our employer. "Don't be an embarrassing ---hole" clauses are pretty standard.

I'm not completely unsympathetic to the argument that some people take "political correctness" too far some times.

However, I don't think that taking issue with a physician and elected official saying "Could it just be that African Americans or the colored population do not wash their hands as well as other groups?" is anywhere close to being one of those times.
 
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Torsion

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The crux of the argument is that the "system" designed by Whites is inherently racist to minorities, and that all white people should atone for the original sin of being white and therefore inherently racist.

I'm still not sure what "racist" laws need to be changed, and the protesters haven't so far specified. Whites have so much guilt pounded into them by the media that they are reflexively apologizing and performing penance for imagined trangresssions:

I've always been critical of the movement pushing white guilt narrative and I don't believe that I am guilty of the historic sins of white people, but I also understand that it's important to recognize how institutional racism which inarguably existed for most of the past 400 years has shaped our current socioeconomic situation. It would also be silly to assume that all of this went away in the 1960s.
 
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Franzd'Epinay

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The crux of the argument is that the "system" designed by Whites is inherently racist to minorities,

Close. It's the system. You added "designed by Whites" to play the victim.


and that all white people should atone for the original sin of being white and therefore inherently racist.

That's not it at all. Again, no need to play the victim.


I'm still not sure what "racist" laws need to be changed, and the protesters haven't so far specified.

It's not just about laws, man. That's why this stuff is insidious and difficult to root out.

Just because there are anti-discrimination laws doesn't mean discrimination doesn't exist in non-illegal-but-still-harmful ways and in the unequal application of "colorblind" laws.


Whites have so much guilt pounded into them by the media that they are reflexively apologizing and performing penance for imagined trangresssions

Bruh.
 
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GeneralVeers

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I've always been critical of the movement pushing white guilt narrative and I don't believe that I am guilty of the historic sins of white people, but I also understand that it's important to recognize how institutional racism which inarguably existed for most of the past 400 years has shaped our current socioeconomic situation. It would also be silly to assume that all of this went away in the 1960s.

It's also a fact that racism is at the lowest point it's been in the history of our country, and perhaps on a global scale the history of the world.

I still don't understand what laws these protesters think are racist and want to change? "Reform the police" isn't really an actionable request unless you have specifics. I would wager that if you asked 10 protesters for specifics, you would get 10 different answers.
 
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Lexdiamondz

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The crux of the argument is that the "system" designed by Whites is inherently racist to minorities, and that all white people should atone for the original sin of being white and therefore inherently racist.

I'm still not sure what "racist" laws need to be changed, and the protesters haven't so far specified. Whites have so much guilt pounded into them by the media that they are reflexively apologizing and performing penance for imagined trangresssions:




Lmao I wish some SJW *****s would tend to my feet.

Seriously though, these folks are as far to the edge of the spectrum as the cross burning KKK neo-nazis. They shouldn't be the focus of any meaningful discussion on race because, like their johnny rebel counterparts, they're too far gone beyond help and are mostly just deserving of contempt.

Self-flagellation doesn't fix racism. Reform does.
 
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TheComebacKid

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It's 2020. My advice:

Don't open your mouth about anything related to race. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if the words are severely offensive, false and intended to hurt. It doesn't matter if the words are totally innocuous, true or intended to gain favor. Although it seems words should be able to help. they can't. Don't do it. Nothing good can come of it. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Cero. Nula. 零. صِفْرٌ. Zero. Don't say, imply or intimate anything about race. Period. Doing so, is at your own risk.
I agree with this, 100%. It's not worth your career. Especially in the age of social media, everything you say or do is public information, and a 2 second clip of you saying something can be taken completely out of context and ruin your life.

That being said... the double standard and hypocrisy of the current mob situation blows my mind. I think the advice should be... don't comment on anything regarding race whatsoever. But if you do for whatever reason feel compelled to comment, make sure it fits the SJW, anti-police narrative. Calling cops out for being savages will allow you to keep your job, AND maybe even get a promotion, who knows?

TeamHealth doesn't care about racism. 200 years ago if TeamHealth existed, they'd be the first to fire you if you advocated for equal rights for black physicians and patients.

Of course we should embrace, with open arms, the move to a more inclusive society with equal rights and protections for all. But we can still call out the phony, self-hating, far left SJWs who really don't care about eliminating racism, but rather, showing off to the world how woke they are in hopes to secure the next "Chief Diversity Inclusion Officer" position at their place of employment.
 
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hundreddaysoff

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No matter what your priors on this whole thing, Matt Taibbi has been publishing some really thoughtful stuff on the multiple issues involved. He also writes a lot about the associated and fascinating media siloing project that has been going on for the last 20 years and has arguably added a ton of fuel to the fire and made it hard for us to perceive and discuss these things like rational adults. Taibbi's main idea is that the media on both sides have basically decided to selectively censor themselves in order to maintain captive audiences and make more money.

Eg,


As an outsider without a horse in this race, my only original observation is that if the police really have had arrest quotas and metrics for metrics' sake in place since the 90s, there may be a useful analogy between these and the BS ER metrics loved by HCA et al for those studying modern management trends. Cf Scott's Seeing Like a State
 
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