OK DAT but GPA not so hot?

[robliski]

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I have an OK DAT 19/20 (AC/SC) and 21 PAT. GPA around 2.9

What are the chances?
How important is math and english (my low scores)?
Do they care about your work experience?

Thanks😕

 

[savvysearch]

Probably not so much work experience as much as volunteer/shadowing. Is 2.9 GPA your Aadsas GPA or University GPA?

 

[Pre-Dent-David]

That is a bad GPA, but some people do get in with that kind of gpa. Also that is a decent DAT. If you dont get in you could always enroll in a post bac or Masters. If you do well in that you should be alright. If you really want to become a dentist then there is going to be a way for you to do it. However the path you take may end up being somewhat convoluted depending on what you decide to do.

 

[robliski]

The GPA is my overall. But I have one year of volunteer/shadowing experience. Plus I have a lot of accomplishments in pharmaceutics.

I don't know anymore.

P.S. What have you hear about schools that are easier to get accepted in?
Have you hear of that new dental school in vegas and arizona?

 

[grettlin2]

robliski, I also apply for 2004 admission. For Arizona, if you search ItsGivn's post, he mentions the average GPA would be around 3.5, but don't know about DAT. I am kind of surprise with the high GPA for a new school. Just take some more courses to raise your GPA and it won't be the barrier to you anymore.

 

[tinker bell]

People who get in with a 2.9 GPA are:

They have 21 and above in their average, plus they don't score bad in any subject (like below 18).

They have a LOR from a dean or very famous faculty of dental school.

Their parents are former alumni and donate tons of money.

It's true that Yah-E got in with 2.4. But his DAT is pretty good.
And to be true to you, how many Yah-E have u met in life?

If u have any subject 17 and under, it will be a rough road for you ahead. There is no such thing like easy dental school to get in. Arizona takes in lots of students with high GPA. So is UNLV. Don't underestimate any school.

Even Loma Linda posts a very low stats for their entering class, but it's not that easy to get in unless u're 7day advantages.

Good luck

 

[sa177]

When I applied this past year, I thought I would not get in anywhere b/c my Cumilative GPA was below a 2.9 and my Science GPA was even lower. What really helped me get in were my DAT scores. My academic average was a 22 and my lowest score in any section was a 21.

I was pretty lazy during my undergrad years and didn't get serious until my last year at school. I mainly worked and had fun. Work was a major part of my application so it was something I really stressed. I also was apart of my school's Dental Society and volunteers between work and school. I barely did any research, I'd say a quarter of some bs research. All I did was work while in school.

Whatever you do, don't give up. Just study and you will do well and get in somewhere.

Good luck!

 

[EyeCandy]

NYU...... I personally know a few of my friends who got wasted in undergrad courses and could not battle for the "A" grade at the UC's and had similar DAT scores (some lower) and are headed east to NYU.

Having gone through this application cycle..... I am very disappointed at the quality of dental students as compared to the med students. Dental school (in my own opinion) is not at all hard to get in if you border the 3.0 and above and have above 19's on the DAT. There are some students that have the 3.6 and above and good DAT scores to go along with it... but I must admit that that is no way near the norm!!

Also, most people say that undergrad grades don't tell the whole story....... but the DAT doesn't either so your overall app will tell the whole story. I personally know of some people who went to cal states and barely got by w/ 2.9 - 3.2 and will be sitting as D1's this fall so don't let any peeps throw you off your goal and for sure apply this cycle. Thinking aloud: is it really that difficult to get half A's and B's and end up with a 3.5 gpa in undergrad courses (even at a top 10 UC or private)??? Maybe for dental students it just might be but more the merrier... i guess.

APPLY THIS CYCLE..... THERE IS A REASON MOST SCHOOLS HAVE AN AVG IN THE LOW 3'S...... THERE ARE MANY STUDENTS WHO GET IN WITH NUMBERS LIKE YOURS!!!

 

[shootin4par]

Rob--

First off, although there is a lot of great advice on this board, none of us are experts. None of us sit on admissions committees, nor really know EXACTLY what each school likes.

That being said, and with you're current GPA and scores I do feel that you have a good chance of getting into a dental school. The key is applying to a selective bunch of schools who aren't sticklers for high GPAs. There are several schools who value other things more highly than a gpa.

EyeCandy was right though. Many people do gain acceptance to dental school with GPAs ranging from 2.9 to 3.2. Although these may not seem stellar, they aren't miserable. They are average.

There are many of us (more than most people would expect) who do have high GPAs and DAT scores. But that doesn't mean much. I know quite a few people who had average GPAs and DAT and got into several schools.

Remember select schools that arent GPA sticklers and you'll find yourself sitting in an interview in a few months. I think your DAT score show you can do well, and will help emphasize that. Remember to stress that you have shown improvement and that you have a burning desire to become a dentist.

You can do it!

 

[UBTom]

Also...

Most state university dental schools favor in-state applicants (though some of the more nationally-prominent state schools like UMich do not). So apply to any state schools in your state of residence-- Most of the time that automatically gives you a leg up on applicants from the other 49 states.

Good luck!

 

[robliski]

Thanks you guys for the info.

I think they should also take into account that many of the students with really high GPA's never had to work full time during college or work 2 jobs for that matter!

Robliski🙂

 

[EyeCandy]

Chill homie..... and stop rationalizing. Unless you have some evidence for you supposition, you are not correct. Continuing with your anectdotal info, I personally know many classmates who worked hard at their jobs, did research, volunteered, and other active community involvement. And yes I myself worked almost 30 hrs a week and still found it rather doable to topple the obligatory curve in undergrad bio classes.

Again, you should apply and you do have a good chance at gaining acceptance to a dental school. However, if you are a cali resident in-state competition is fierce at the UC's (a caveat is the post-bach thingy at ucsf, which is like DAT and dental admissions for dummies) and probably the only school that is worth applying to may be uop......they are notorious for selecting students with shaky undergrad grades and good DAT scores. Just work hard on your personal statement and procure decent LOR's and you should be on your way. Good Luck!!

 

[dragonfly9]

It really depends on what else you have going for you. I had a 2.9 overall and around a 2.75 science with 19/19 on my DAT and had a couple interview invites. However, I had 2 years of lab work after undergrad with several publications under my belt, a strong upward trend in grades, and really good recs. from people who could really account for my work ethic and my ability to follow protocol and catch onto the task at hand. Also, I went to a top 20 undergrad college that is known for combatting grade inflation, which helped a lot. When I wrote my personal statement, I decided to take a little bit of a risk and let my personality really show through. I could have whined about how my grades didn't reflect my Interviewers mentioned that they thought my essay was funny and honest and that they could relate. I knew then that they do look at the whole picture, not just the grades.

Oh - my PAT was abysmal and my O-chem DAT score REALLY pulled down my overall and science and I applied at the end of August. Trust me, if I can do it, anyone can.

 

[ItsGavinC]

robliski,

Here is my honest opinion: Your GPA is *way* below what the average will be for applicants this year. Your academic average DAT score of 19 is fairly close to what the average will be, but we may all be surprised and find that a 20 is the average this year.

Here is the advice: do LOTS of research on the schools you are applying to. Apply to schools who favor DAT over GPA. Expect to get several outright rejections, but don't get down about it.

You can find success in this application cycle if you apply wisely. Even then, however, it will be tough going.

Don't get depressed, but remember that there are lots of applicants who get a 19 on their DATs and have a 3.1-3.3. Most adcoms will favor them over you outright.

Good luck with your applications!

By the way, I had good grades in undergrad, am married, have a child, and worked 40 hours a week (Monday-Friday from 2:00-10:30 for five semesters). You certainly can't blame poor grades on having to work.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by shootin4par


EyeCandy was right though. Many people do gain acceptance to dental school with GPAs ranging from 2.9 to 3.2. Although these may not seem stellar, they aren't miserable. They are average.

Those numbers were average and "good" in the 99 cycle, and the 2000 cycle, and maybe even the 2001 cycle, but no so anymore.

It is true that people gain acceptances with those numbers now, but "many" isn't an adjective that should be used to describe that group anymore.

Average for this application cycle will fall somewhere between 3.25-3.50.

Some of this post was deleted because no information is better than a little information

 

[ddstothecor]

I disagree with ItsGavinC.

Name those schools which you proclaim have an "underqualified" letter. Please stop not sighting your sources under some sort of anonymous source with "insider" perspective. Your comments are very discouraging--and elitist. Further, I highly question their authenticity. Finally, how can you possibly know what the incoming pool of applicants will average in grades?

Also, I disagree that the adcoms don't take into account a person's ability to hold down a job while having a child, and go to school while maintaining good grades--especially with an upward trend. I, for one, was broached about that subject in dental school interviews, and more than once.

A 19/20/21 DAT will get you interviews. Don't give up. Don't stop applying until you get in. It's true some schools may DQ you right away if your G.P.A. doesn't meet a certain threshold, but definately not all. Apply to many schools, and do it wisely (e.g., don't apply to C.U. because you're from CA, and, realistically, you have almost no chance of getting into that school.) Many schools list their requisite G.P.A., and if you fall below that score, don't apply. ItsGavinC is correct that dental school admissions is a competative process, but your numbers could be worse. Besides, many schools look at the entire person--not just numbers in some sort of formula for deriving qualified individuals.

Finally, one of my good friends received an interview at Gavin's prestigious Arizona school, and his G.P.A. falls pretty far below the 3.0 mark.

 

[Yah-E]

Although dental schools like to see applicants with GPAs above 3.0s, but there are many of us with below 3.0 matriculated into amazing dental schools year after year.

Let's talk about your 2.9 GPA, you see, there are many variants of a 2.9 cumulative GPA:

1) you did ****ty in the beginning, but you have an evident upward trend at the end (this will look in your favor)

2) you did great in the beginning and slacked off at the end of your undergraduate degree (this will not look good in your favor)

3) your transcript shows no trend and low grades are scattered through out (this will not look good in your favor, but better than #2 above)

Your DAT scores exemplified that you are capable of achieving academic excellence if you put your head to it, which admissions committees will see.

Aside from all the extra curricular activities listed in your AADSAS application, add a little personal touch by showing interests to your dental schools of choice will do wonders in your application progress.

Email admissions coordinators/directors just to introduce yourself as an applicant and inform them to that you are excited to apply to their school. Build a relationship and add a personality to your application. Be catious, do not over do this, it can be annoying.

As an applicant with lower numbers (GPA or DAT), you must go the extra distance to distinguish yourself from a 3.65 GPA and 28/25 DAT applicant.

Further, research on dental schools and apply to those that will give your application full consideration. There are some dental schools out there that will cut you based on your numbers, state-residencies, and research experiences.

Be a proactive applicant and not a passive one.

Good luck and congrats on your DAT scores!

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by ddstothecor
I disagree with ItsGavinC.

how can you possibly know what the incoming pool of applicants will average in grades?

Simply because the GPA for last years applicants fell at a 3.23, and the GPA from applicants to matriculants tends to deviate by +.15 on a yearly basis. Interest in dentistry is exploding as is evidenced by the fury of activity on this message board in the last two years. The quality of applicants is rising on a yearly basis. DAT scores of applicants this year already exceed my DAT scores and grades. It's exciting to see each subsequent year developing better candidates.

Also, I disagree that the adcoms don't take into account a person's ability to hold down a job while having a child, and go to school while maintaining good grades--especially with an upward trend.

I don't disagree with that statement, but the trouble is getting the adcoms to take a look at that part of your application. Afterall, there isn't a space on the application to list how many children you have, and typical adcoms look at the numbers first, and then work history later, if they view it at all.

A 19/20/21 DAT will get you interviews. Don't give up. Don't stop applying until you get in. It's true some schools may DQ you right away if your G.P.A. doesn't meet a certain threshold, but definately not all. Apply to many schools, and do it wisely.

That is exactly what I said. Read my first post. The key for this candidate is to choose his schools wisely. His DAT scores are good enough to garnish serveral acceptances, if he chooses the correct schools.

Finally, one of my good friends received an interview at Gavin's prestigious Arizona school, and his G.P.A. falls pretty far below the 3.0 mark.

I'm glad to hear that your friend got an interview, and your point is well taken. I haven't posted anything regarding Arizona in this thread, however. And, Arizona is one of the schools where the adcoms WILL look at your work and service experience in conjunction with your GPA and DAT scores. The Masters of Public Health degree is built into our curriculum, so work and service are viewed as more of a vital asset than an extracurricular.

 

[tinker bell]

However, if you are a cali resident in-state competition is fierce at the UC's (a caveat is the post-bach thingy at ucsf, which is like DAT and dental admissions for dummies)

EyeCandy, why are you so bitter about post-bac students? How many post-bac do you know that you call them dummies? Let me guess? The closest post-bac you have ever known is me on this board?

Are u mad because post-bac students get into UC and you don't? Sorry to deliver the news, only 5 postbac get into ucsf out of a 82 students class. And those 5 also got in other prestigious schools as well. And if you don't get into any of UC schools, it's because you can't beat all of those hundreds students, not only post-bac students.

And other post-bac students who will go to Arizona have their GPA>3.5. Do you even have a 3.5? If not, please do not call anyone else dummies.

And one advise for you. If you can choose to go to dental school, choose a school that does not have post-bac students in it. Because we have a large alumni association. I'll make sure they know who you are and avoid those who call them DUMMIES.

And if you go to UOP, good luck to you not running into any post-bac there. We have a former post-bac student who is currently an instructor at UOP. So, watch your mouth or she will give you a miserable life in your second year.

The op asks for his chance to gain admissions. If you can't give any advise, then don't. Do not insult other people who you don't know. It sounds like a very stupid statement. Who would believe you, after all?

 

[ItsGavinC]

I'm with Tink on this one. It seems that some people don't know what "free advice" is... free!

If you don't like it, or don't like reading it, then don't! Nobody here charges a fee, so it really isn't kosher for people to bitch and moan when they don't like what is being posted.

Candy-coating a situation might make us all feel warm and fuzzy, but it can also send a lot of people scurrying the wrong direction.

 

[EyeCandy]

Actually..... I never said I abhorred post-bac students or didn't think they were any less qualified than the traditional applicant, so further objurgation may not be necessary. Also, I was not talking literally about the dummies part..... so swallow a chill pill.

I have enough confidence and high self-esteem to not make personal attacks on other people..... I just tell it like it is and if you are not emotionally stable enough to handle it then seek help. Therefore, I usually have great restraint but yes.... I do have a 3.5+ actually much closer to a 4.0 but again having superior grades only says I was able to demolish curves on a regular basis in undergrad. I do not rest on my laurels.

 

[robliski]

First, and utmost, thanks for the tremendous support and ecouragement!

Do most dental schools have a post bac program that gets you in their dental school if you show exceptional academic capability?

🙂

 

[Yah-E]

No, majority of U.S. dental schools do not have their own Post-bac. programs, but those that do, it is 100% guaranteed admssion to a U.S. dental school if you do well in them.

For example, at Nova Dental, we have a Post-bac. program called Master of Biomedical Sciences (MBS) program. It's a master's program (2 years) on paper, but it's essentially a side-door to get into the our dental and medical programs here at Nova. In this MBS program, you're taking the same basic science courses with the dental and medical students. Courses include Biochem, Histo, Gross Anatomy, Microbiology, Neuroanatomy, and Physiology during the first year.

You must earn a 80/100 in every course after the first year during the MBS program for you to be guaranteed to be admitted into the next incoming dental class and you do not have to do the second year of the MBS program. If you earn 90/100 in any course during your MBS first year, then those courses will be waived in your first year of dental school. For example, you earned a 96/100 as a final grade in Biochem in the MBS program, then you do not have to take Biochem during your first year of dental school at Nova.

Each year Nova Dental set aside 5 seats out of 100 for the MBS students in each incoming class. With that said, the MBS program here at Nova is just as competitive as regular dental admission. Official DAT scores, a bachelors degree and 3 letters of recommendations are required to apply. This is kind of odd because the MBS program is a remedial route where they should be a bit more lenient on numbers, but they don't?

Each year there are roughly 80 applicants apply to those 5 seats and around ~15 interview invitations are granted to those seem qualified. Tuition for this MBS program is not cheap either, I believe it's around $23.5K for the year.

This MBS program was initially tailored to the medical school since there are always so much more applicants than available seats per class, but now it has branched out to the dental side and made available to dental applicants that weren't successful applying through AADSAS.

There are 20 MBS seats for medical and only 5 MBS seat for the dental here at Nova. For more info, visit the Nova MBS official site at:

http://medsciences.nova.edu/aboutbs.html

Bottom line, an official dental Post-bac. program is not only effective if you do well, but it's also competitive to get in one and expensive to attend!

 

[liya]

Hi,
Well, as far as i know, NYU would be the easiest to get in. I know a lot of people who got in with lower GPAs and the same DAT score as yours. So you should deff. consider that. Also try to get more volunteer work, it can only work in your favor. If you have any more Qs, dont hesitate to write. I got accepted to NYU and know how their interviews and process goes in general, so maybe i will be able to help you.
GOOD LUCK!🙂

 

[mcataz]

I have a 2.9 GPA. Honestly, I'm not worried as long as I can score 20+ on the DAT and not anything lower than an 18 on any section. I know a lot of people in medical school who got in with low GPA's let alone dental school so I'm not worried about being rejected from every dental school I apply to. I think I will get into at least one or two schools. And if I am rejected, I'm okay with it. I will reapply next year. Your chances improve the second time around.

If anything, you can almost count on an NYU admission. That school basically operates like a Carribean medical school. They admit more students than they can handle for clinicals. So while they give you a chance, it's still a much more difficult opportunity than other schools since they are trying to weed you out. But oh well, we will all adjust.

Don't fret! You will make into dental school although your route may be a little convoluted. Don't let others intimidate you or spread false information. There are plenty of people that get in with 2.9 GPA's. Obviously every admission director will pump up their school and make it seem like it takes a 3.3 + to get in. But unfortunately the facts speak otherwise. When a school's average GPA hovers around 3.1-3.3, you can be rest assured that plenty of 2.9 people are in that class. So ignore people's doomsayings and be aware of the facts. Granted those 2.9 GPAers have high DAT's but a 2.9 doesn't prevent you from getting into dental school. Sure, it may bar you from going to a top 10 dental school but we aren't talking top 10; we are talking any dental school