Omitting Grades?

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premedbrah

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Hello! I just had a rather random question that came to mind. Do Caribbean Medical Schools have access to information regarding where/when you took classes that is NOT provided to them by the applicant? For example, I took classes my Freshmen year of college at a local CC that I did poorly in. I then moved and took classes elsewhere. If I did not include that first CC... would they even know?

I understand the ETHICAL dilemma on this one, but I am genuinely curious as to what's stopping students with poor track records from getting in (besides the fact that it's the Carib)? Just a random shower thought and please don't make this a "physician's don't lie or do unethical things" debate. :)

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no they wouldn't have any way to know. the gap in your timeline may raise questions though...if they look that hard.
 
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I think if anyone has learned anything from Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, (et al.) it is that your past transgressions now live in perpetuity. That is, don't assume that if you did something 20... 30... 40... even, in Tom Brokaw's case, 50+ years ago no one is going to dredge it up and try to crucify you with it down the line.

An equally valid strategy: acknowledge it, own it, and detail what you learned from it. I've said this before on this forum... There are two basic types of human errors: ones of commission, and ones of omission. I've been to enough peer review meetings to know that, for some reason in our profession, people seem to care far more about what you've... ahem... "forgotten" to tell them you did rather than admitting to what you've actually done. It's hard to disprove intent when you lie.

-Skip
 
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Im aware of the Clearinghouse. None of the Caribbean schools are listed as users :rolleyes:

if you decide to withhold that info, make sure it isn't listed on any of your other transcripts (like as transfer credit) because that would be a flag.
 
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Im aware of the Clearinghouse. None of the Caribbean schools are listed as users :rolleyes:

Actually AUC is the only Caribbean school listed in the Clearinghouse. I actually found that kinda funny.

For the purpose of Caribbean discussions at least, the Clearinghouse is overrated. Don't worry about it. I've had to do a few background checks for a couple of jobs and the Clearinghouse shows up as an entry on the report but it only lists my undergraduate degree, date of graduation, and where I went to school and I think that's the last thing the employer was even looking at. There is no mention of the others schools I have attended even though they all report to the Clearinghouse.

Nobody is going to sit there scrutinizing the Clearinghouse for every single applicant. There is no time to do that. Some people would like you to think that is the case but it just isn't. Obviously someone will chime in here and say that they check every single application but they can also tell you a lot of other things including that you won't become a doctor. If you know a few people here and there in the higher ups, you'll know what they look for and what they don't and I am telling you that If I were you, I would be more worried about STEP 1 and 2 scores TBH. Those would show up literally in size 30 font on your ERAS.

My theory on this issue is to never lie about your credentials but withholding certain types of information can be a gray area and you have to evaluate the pros and cons of doing that. And no, withholding some information does not mean you are destined to kill your patients or something to that effect. If we are going to have this discussion, then we should do away with any type of academic fresh start programs as well because those types of programs fall into this category to some extent.

I do think it is unfortunate that some people have to be put into a position where they even have to consider something like withholding information because they are worried that it will not allow them to succeed. In a perfect world, academically, we should be judged by what we are doing and can do rather than what we might have done. Seriously, if you failed Bio I at 18 and aced it at 25, I would think you are now proficient in Bio I, where they come up with a C average is beyond me but it is what it is and you gotta roll with it and do what you have to do.

...I just want to make clear that you should never lie about credentialing and never say you have something that you don't have. I'm saying there is a grey area if you have retaken something or have done something which is more advanced than the area you are are concerned about. Now there are those that will tell you to report EVERYTHING but if you can navigate this area to your benefit, then I don't see any problem with that.

Here is an example:

If you took a term of CC credits and got terrible grades during your first ever semester of college, people will tell you to report those grades. That same community college has a fresh-start option after not being enrolled for two years (other states do this, not just Texas.) Now, granted if you re-enroll, those old grades will show up on your transcript but they will not be calculated into your CGPA. So you can essentially retake those same classes and then finish up the two years and get an AA degree with a 4.0 and graduate with highest honors. That's their documented policy but is it 100% honest? I mean you failed a semester's worth of courses right? Aren't you supposed to be "punished" for that? Isn't your academic career supposed to be ruined? This is why it's a grey area.

So, alternatively if you decided not to disclose that first semester worth of work at the CC and you went to some four-year institution, started fresh, and graduated from there with the same 4.0 Summa Cum Laude, you'd still have the 4.0 in this example as well and your CC would be offering you the fresh-start for that semester you did not disclose. But wait, where is the punishment that you are supposed to receive? The 4.0 is not supposed to count right? We HAVE to average everything together right...even if your CC is saying they are "adjusting" your transcript? That makes sense right? Confusing? Diving into the morality issue of this is honestly a waste of your time. Tread wisely and move on with your life. Punish the child molesters, murderers, and tax cheats, leave the people trying to better their own lives alone.
 
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Actually AUC is the only Caribbean school listed in the Clearinghouse. I actually found that kinda funny.

For the purpose of Caribbean discussions at least, the Clearinghouse is overrated. Don't worry about it. I've had to do a few background checks for a couple of jobs and the Clearinghouse shows up as an entry on the report but it only lists my undergraduate degree, date of graduation, and where I went to school and I think that's the last thing the employer was even looking at. There is no mention of the others schools I have attended even though they all report to the Clearinghouse.

Nobody is going to sit there scrutinizing the Clearinghouse for every single applicant. There is no time to do that. Some people would like you to think that is the case but it just isn't. Obviously someone will chime in here and say that they check every single application but they can also tell you a lot of other things including that you won't become a doctor. If you know a few people here and there in the higher ups, you'll know what they look for and what they don't and I am telling you that If I were you, I would be more worried about STEP 1 and 2 scores TBH. Those would show up literally in size 30 font on your ERAS.

My theory on this issue is to never lie about your credentials but withholding certain types of information can be a gray area and you have to evaluate the pros and cons of doing that. And no, withholding some information does not mean you are destined to kill your patients or something to that effect. If we are going to have this discussion, then we should do away with any type of academic fresh start programs as well because those types of programs fall into this category to some extent.

I do think it is unfortunate that some people have to be put into a position where they even have to consider something like withholding information because they are worried that it will not allow them to succeed. In a perfect world, academically, we should be judged by what we are doing and can do rather than what we might have done. Seriously, if you failed Bio I at 18 and aced it at 25, I would think you are now proficient in Bio I, where they come up with a C average is beyond me but it is what it is and you gotta roll with it and do what you have to do.
You could not have had worded that any better. Took it right out of head. Thank you
 
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