OMT in Anesthesia

[Hamhock]

I am admittedly naive about a lot of the DO OMM stuff...but, for this to continue, must there not be a substantial body of well-executed research to support OMM?

I just haven't seen it.

HH

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[karizma098]

I am admittedly naive about a lot of the DO OMM stuff...but, for this to continue, must there not be a substantial body of well-executed research to support OMM?

I just haven't seen it.

HH

you're absolutely correct. 'experts' in the field of OMT therapy are incredibly shady when it comes to proving their techniques work. they do many 'in house' studies using ultrasound waves and random stuff to prove that the body's 'brain waves' and what not change after omt therapy, but nothing truly legit. i am astounded that with the growth of osteopathic medicine there hasnt been a large scale study to validify these techniques. I know a few studies were done on back treatments that showed OMT to be equally effective as some pain meds, etc etc , but the problem is all these studies are conducted by DO schools and specifically by OMT professors, so they can't really be trusted. noone has had enough interest to put money into studying OMT treatment.

 

[Eta Carinae]

you're absolutely correct. 'experts' in the field of OMT therapy are incredibly shady when it comes to proving their techniques work. they do many 'in house' studies using ultrasound waves and random stuff to prove that the body's 'brain waves' and what not change after omt therapy, but nothing truly legit. i am astounded that with the growth of osteopathic medicine there hasnt been a large scale study to validify these techniques. I know a few studies were done on back treatments that showed OMT to be equally effective as some pain meds, etc etc , but the problem is all these studies are conducted by DO schools and specifically by OMT professors, so they can't really be trusted. noone has had enough interest to put money into studying OMT treatment.

I applaud your integrity and openhandedness.

 

[karizma098]

I applaud your integrity and openhandedness.

thanks.

i think the vast majority of DO students see things my way. OMM is fine, and in a family practice or rehab setting it's probably moderately useful for stretching/rehab/ mild pain relief, but it has limited , if any, usefulness in treating disease.

some DO schools have seen this already and cut out cranial osteopathic medicine from their curriculum, but most schools still ignore the facts and continue to teach a lot of pseudoscience. luckily omt usually only takes up 2-4 hours a week ( at the very most ) of our time, so we don't waste much brain power on it.

i'm hoping sometime in the future the DO degree merges into the MD degree, there really isn't a need for 2 seperate clinical doctorate degrees, imho.

 

[2win]

thanks.

i think the vast majority of DO students see things my way. OMM is fine, and in a family practice or rehab setting it's probably moderately useful for stretching/rehab/ mild pain relief, but it has limited , if any, usefulness in treating disease.

some DO schools have seen this already and cut out cranial osteopathic medicine from their curriculum, but most schools still ignore the facts and continue to teach a lot of pseudoscience. luckily omt usually only takes up 2-4 hours a week ( at the very most ) of our time, so we don't waste much brain power on it.

i'm hoping sometime in the future the DO degree merges into the MD degree, there really isn't a need for 2 seperate clinical doctorate degrees, imho.

I don't to offend any of my DO friends but I DO believe that this is shamanic medicine.
I also know that most of them got in the DO schools for different reasons - and the last likely was to do the manipulation stuff.
Maybe Arch will jump in and share from his experience as a DO manipulation stuff in anesthesia.

 

[karizma098]

I don't to offend any of my DO friends but I DO believe that this is shamanic medicine.
I also know that most of them got in the DO schools for different reasons - and the last likely was to do the manipulation stuff.
Maybe Arch will jump in and share from his experience as a DO manipulation stuff in anesthesia.

a very small amount of it is, more or less.

the vast majority of it is closely in line with chiropractic techniques.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Maybe Arch will jump in and share from his experience as a DO manipulation stuff in anesthesia.

These are my personal opinions so take them for what they are worth:

There is no place for osteopathic manipulation in routine anesthesiology practice (if at all).

I think the "tenets" of osteopathic medicine such as the structure and function stuff and the bodies ability to heal itself are just common sense and the whole holistic mantra is WAY overblown.

Some of the DO stuff like cranial therapy is pure nonsense. I thought some of the other stuff seemed similar to what physical therapists do, which in my eyes is pretty common mainstream stuff. The rest of the stuff I learned (and forgot) I thought was pretty equivocal. There is a paucity of real literature of the efficacy of OMM AFAIK.

Patients do seem to like it when you put your hands on them in a therapeutic manner but as far as I am concerned there is no place for this in anesthesia.

Anecdotally, I got a lot of thoracic back pain/tightness in med school the first two years from hunching over a book. Getting my back "popped" for this felt GREAT.

OMM is fine and dandy for rehab and office based practices and whatnot but there isn't much use for it in gas.

 

[karizma098]

These are my personal opinions so take them for what they are worth:

There is no place for osteopathic manipulation in routine anesthesiology practice (if at all).

I think the "tenets" of osteopathic medicine such as the structure and function stuff and the bodies ability to heal itself are just common sense and the whole holistic mantra is WAY overblown.

Some of the DO stuff like cranial therapy is pure nonsense. I thought some of the other stuff seemed similar to what physical therapists do, which in my eyes is pretty common mainstream stuff. The rest of the stuff I learned (and forgot) I thought was pretty equivocal. There is a paucity of real literature of the efficacy of OMM AFAIK.

Patients do seem to like it when you put your hands on them in a therapeutic manner but as far as I am concerned there is no place for this in anesthesia.

Anecdotally, I got a lot of thoracic back pain/tightness in med school the first two years from hunching over a book. Getting my back "popped" for this felt GREAT.

OMM is fine and dandy for rehab and office based practices and whatnot but there isn't much use for it in gas.

 

[urge]

What the heck is OMT?

 

[Arch Guillotti]

What the heck is OMT?

LMGTFY

 

[urge]

LMGTFY

That's messed up. Do the people who allow you to have medical licenses know you guys believe in such shenanigans?

 

[karizma098]

That's messed up. Do the people who allow you to have medical licenses know you guys believe in such shenanigans?

wow.

i refuse to believe an attending would be so vain so i'm going to sum this up as a case of douchiness, to the 3rd degree.

before anyone flames me for calling an attending a d-bag, realize that asking 'what is omt' in a thread where omt / it's uses/ maluses is described in detail, and then making stupid comments about it, isn't justifiable by the fact that one is attending.

asshats are asshats.

 

[urge]

wow.

i refuse to believe an attending would be so vain so i'm going to sum this up as a case of douchiness, to the 3rd degree.

before anyone flames me for calling an attending a d-bag, realize that asking 'what is omt' in a thread where omt / it's uses/ maluses is described in detail, and then making stupid comments about it, isn't justifiable by the fact that one is attending.

asshats are asshats.

Must be a sensitive area for you. Why don't you OMT yourself?

Otherwise, there is nothing I can do about it.

Regards,

urge, M.D.

 

[Consigliere]

Must be a sensitive area for you. Why don't you OMT yourself?

Otherwise, there is nothing I can do about it.

Regards,

urge, M.D.

Hey, urge, M.D. How does it make you feel knowing that Consigliere, D.O. is making >$400k per year AS A PHYSICIAN while partying hard and enjoying life while you toiled away from your (equivalent) M.D.? Bwa hah hah hah ha!

 

[karizma098]

Must be a sensitive area for you. Why don't you OMT yourself?

Otherwise, there is nothing I can do about it.

Regards,

urge, M.D.

OMT is not a sensitive area for me at all, neither are the pitfalls or shortcomings of osteopathic medicine, as you would know if you had read this thread.

d-bags who ask dumb questions are a sensitive area for me though. perhaps you can control the urge to speak before thinking next time, sir.

oh, is the M.D. in big bold red letters supposed to annoy me or something? really clever. i reinforce my previous statements that asshats are asshats.

 

[Gimlet]

That's messed up. Do the people who allow you to have medical licenses know you guys believe in such shenanigans?

Wait a sec, aren't you the guy who believes the moon landing was a hoax? You're not exactly in a position to be calling out shenanigans here.

 

[Mista Suprane]

Must be a sensitive area for you. Why don't you OMT yourself?

Otherwise, there is nothing I can do about it.

Regards,

urge, M.D.

sometimes this dude has productive things to add to clinical discussions.

other times (like today) he doesn't. and he actually THINKS he has just thrown multiple wicked barbs, but in reality he is being a boring lame dummy.

i find his obliviousness to his lack of wit amusing.

 

[karizma098]

sometimes this dude has productive things to add to clinical discussions.

other times (like today) he doesn't. and he actually THINKS he has just thrown multiple wicked barbs, but in reality he is being a boring lame dummy.

i find his obliviousness to his lack of wit amusing.

i see.

normally i don't let people's lameness bug me, but i guess i expected a higher level of maturity on the SDN resident forums.

i really hope he doesn't think he's witty, he acts like a 7th grader.

 

[urge]

hhhmmmmm???

Why would you misrepresent yourself as a MD?





I made you blow your cover and you expect me to believe you are not pissed?

 

[karizma098]

View attachment 14727



hhhmmmmm???

Why would you misrepresent yourself as a MD?





I made you blow your cover and you expect me to believe you are not pissed?

1.) it's not misrepresentation if the degrees are equivalent.

2.) You're a fairy princess. have a good day.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

come on guys this DO versus MD stuff belongs on the pre-allo board for chrissakes............

 

[urge]

oh, I forgot!

[YOUTUBE]rY0WxgSXdEE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[urge]

1.) it's not misrepresentation if the degrees are equivalent.

That's what the crna and the dnp argue.

Don't dig a deeper hole for yourself.

 

[karizma098]

oh, I forgot!

[YOUTUBE]rY0WxgSXdEE[/YOUTUBE]

embedding disabled by youtube.

FAIL moment.

agreed arch, i expect it from premeds, and even some med students,

i just don't get it when i see physicians flaming each other over this crap.

 

[karizma098]

That's what the crna and the dnp argue.

Don't dig a deeper hole for yourself.

yes. because arguing that a nursing degree earned online is equivalent is the same thing as arguing a D.O and M.D. are equivalent. a nurse can misrepresent themself as a physician, but a physician can't misrepresent themself as another physician.

sorry to blow your fairy princess day dream here, but DO=MD for all legal , medical, and political causes. i'll be the first to admit prestige wise there is a stigma with the DO degree, but that's it.

a deeper hole for myself? dude, we've made you look like an idiot like 4X over, who's in the hole, fairy princess? you would pick queen as a song to play.

honestly, i'm frankly embarrassed on your behalf. if you're an attending physician you should know better than to make ignorant comments in regards to your colleague's degrees . it's one thing for med students and premeds to have a pissing contest with one another, it's just sad when an attending physician puts another physician down for such trivial BS. as a med student, i hold my attendings ( DO and MD ) to a higher standard, and hope i don't run across any such as yourself. grow up, MD.

 

[urge]

embedding disabled by youtube.

FAIL moment.

Really? Works fine on my computer. You must have sht computer among other things. I see a common theme. I'll help you out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE

i just don't get it when i see physicians flaming each other over this crap.

Over quackery?

Why not? It's fun.

 

[scudrunner]

I think this thread has run its course. All of the inflammatory MD vs. DO posts should be deleted and this thread should be closed. Anyone else agree?

 

[Consigliere]

Really? Works fine on my computer. You must have sht computer among other things. I see a common theme. I'll help you out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE



Over quackery?

Why not? It's fun.

D.O. = M.D. All 50 states. Deal with it. Word

 

[Consigliere]

View attachment 14727



hhhmmmmm???

Why would you misrepresent yourself as a MD?





I made you blow your cover and you expect me to believe you are not pissed?

Did it several years ago as a goof. The day I let some inconsequential human being such as yourself piss me off is the day I....ahhh, forget it.......

 

[urge]

D.O. = M.D. All 50 states. Deal with it. Word

[YOUTUBE]hHRNSeuvzlM[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRNSeuvzlM

I love that song at the 3 min mark.

 

[karizma098]

[YOUTUBE]hHRNSeuvzlM[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRNSeuvzlM

I love that song at the 3 min mark.

i don't get it , is quoting youtube videos your "thing" or something?

consigliere is correct from a legal standpoint...so i don't really know what the dream on thing is getting at.

p.s. - why the f does it matter where someone went to med school? i thought residency training is what made us docs. oh well, w/e.

that's a great song btw. a pretty girl like yourself would like it.

 

[karizma098]

Really? Works fine on my computer. You must have sht computer among other things. I see a common theme. I'll help you out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE



Over quackery?

Why not? It's fun.

'you must have sht computer'

nice english borat, yeah the ipad really sucks with videos and flash, i'll agree with you on that one.

i don't think you want to get into a materially-related pissing contest with me pal. you won't win. nothing else to be said about that, kiss my silver spoon a** fairy princess, before my trust fund crushes you.

as seen in this thread, most DO's have agreed with the need to remove a massive chunk of OMT from DO school curriculum, and if not, have expressed disdain for the quackish elements of it. if this is the case, what exactly are you getting out of slamming DO's again?

you're just making yourself look like a 7th grade fairy princess, quoting youtube videos and taunting others on a forum.

go home sandy.

 

[urge]

'you must have sht computer'

nice english borat, yeah the ipad really sucks with videos and flash, i'll agree with you on that one.

i don't think you want to get into a materially-related pissing contest with me pal. you won't win. nothing else to be said about that, kiss my silver spoon a** fairy princess, before my trust fund crushes you.

Talk about childish behavior...

 

[Arch Guillotti]

enough, good lord

closing since thread has degenerated thanks to petty arguing