On School_Selector_0910, state schools that don't say "mostly in state"

[theWUbear]

I am making my initial list of schools to apply to. My methodology is to start with the list of ever MD school and delete the ones to which I won't apply.

I assumed I would knock out most state schools, but I'm seeing on the school_selector spreadsheet that some state schools do not come with the oos factor warning. Examples are

Michigan State
EVMS
U South Carolina
U Toledo
U Cincy

More pertinent to me: The SUNY's (i'm in NJ so I'd apply to them if I had a shot but not if OOS factor was significant)

Is there a significant OOS factor at these schools? Does this mean that there are a lot of state schools that don't have significant OOS factor?

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[apumic]

Check the stats data to the right and get an MSAR.

 

[Morsetlis]

You don't need an MSAR. There's a spreadsheet! (It has OOS/instate matriculation stats.)

 

[morning]

MSU is 80% in-state every year, I'm not sure about the other ones.

 

[Schemp]

For 2008-2009:

Michigan State: 115 resident, 36 non-resident
EVMS: 72 resident, 38 non-resident
U South Carolina: 67 resident, 16 non-resident
U Toledo: 113 resident, 62 non-resident
U Cincinnati: 98 resident, 61 non-resident

SUNYs:
Downstate: 147 resident, 36 non-resident
Upstate: 132 resident, 20 non-resident

 

[Morsetlis]

I'm applying to every school that takes 30%+ OOS ;p

 

[Geekchick921]

Maybe I'm not understanding it right, but I feel like going by matriculant statistics can be misleading.

1. We don't know if the school is counting people as in-state as long as they've established residency by matriculation (if possible) and if that's the case, we don't know if they were in-state applicants or out of state applicants. UMDNJ springs to mind, it's come up a few times on SDN that they are not nearly as OOS-phobic as their MSAR stats lead you to believe; they supposedly count applicants from out of state as in-state matriculants provided they have established residency in the state by the time they submit their data for the MSAR.

2. Just because few OOS students matriculate there doesn't mean they weren't accepted. Especially in the case of state-schools, with significant tuition discounts for residents of the state, it stands to reason that plenty of OOS students may have been accepted, but chose not to matriculate there as another school, maybe one from their own state, offered them a much better tuition/scholarship/financial aide package.

3. I couldn't just finish at 2. So... I like turtles.

 

[theWUbear]

I'm applying to every school that takes 30%+ OOS ;p

All of this information leaves me back at square one. I see no reason why not to apply to like 80 percent of medical schools. The only limiting factors are ca$hmoney and how many secondary essays I can handle writing. I guess Morsetlis has a good idea to knock some schools out. Is there a thread on sdn that describes how to choose where to apply if you're a low-stat applicant who wants to do his/her best to ensure acceptance somewhere? Why don't more people apply to like 40 schools?

 

[Schemp]

All of this information leaves me back at square one. I see no reason why not to apply to like 80 percent of medical schools. The only limiting factors are ca$hmoney and how many secondary essays I can handle writing. I guess Morsetlis has a good idea to knock some schools out. Is there a thread on sdn that describes how to choose where to apply if you're a low-stat applicant who wants to do his/her best to ensure acceptance somewhere? Why don't more people apply to like 40 schools?

Secondaries. Better to write fifteen great ones than forty decent ones, especially when you're really on the margin as far as stats. You'd have to have incredible stamina to handle writing that many secondaries in top form. I haven't done mine yet, but I would guess that staying motivated is tough even with just 15-20.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

All of this information leaves me back at square one. I see no reason why not to apply to like 80 percent of medical schools. The only limiting factors are ca$hmoney and how many secondary essays I can handle writing. I guess Morsetlis has a good idea to knock some schools out. Is there a thread on sdn that describes how to choose where to apply if you're a low-stat applicant who wants to do his/her best to ensure acceptance somewhere? Why don't more people apply to like 40 schools?

Just calculate your LizzyM score and delete all the schools that are too far above yours (maybe by 5? I don't know it depends on you personally).

If that doesn't work start deleting those that don't take x % OOS
then maybe y % out of state, etc etc until you have the right number of schools

If you want to be really detail oriented though exclude schools where you don't fit their "mission." For example, exclude schools that focus on research if you have none, or schools that focus on rural medicine if you have no experience with the poor. That kind of stuff.

If ALL of that fails, then just delete schools that are alone in a particular state By that I mean try and keep all your schools to a particular region so you can reduce interview costs.

 

[Schemp]

Also, the data I provided is for matriculated, not accepted, students. I think it sounds reasonable that a higher proportion of out-of-state are accepted than matriculate, based on the reasoning put forth by a previous poster. Not hugely different from what you see in those statistics though, most likely.

 

[theWUbear]

Secondaries. Better to write fifteen great ones than forty decent ones, especially when you're really on the margin as far as stats. You'd have to have incredible stamina to handle writing that many secondaries in top form. I haven't done mine yet, but I would guess that staying motivated is tough even with just 15-20.

Ah. Well, this provides sufficient motivation for me to write secondary essays this summer, in advance, for my application in 2011.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

You don't need an MSAR. There's a spreadsheet! (It has OOS/instate matriculation stats.)

I thought that didn't exist anymore

 

[Schemp]

Just calculate your LizzyM score and delete all the schools that are too far above yours (maybe by 5? I don't know it depends on you personally).

If that doesn't work start deleting those that don't take x % OOS
then maybe y % out of state, etc etc until you have the right number of schools

If you want to be really detail oriented though exclude schools where you don't fit their "mission." For example, exclude schools that focus on research if you have none, or schools that focus on rural medicine if you have no experience with the poor. That kind of stuff.

If ALL of that fails, then just delete schools that are alone in a particular state By that I mean try and keep all your schools to a particular region so you can reduce interview costs.

And because schools that are the only one for their state typically have an even greater preference for in-state students (quotas for specific counties/regions, etc.).

 

[Schemp]

Ah. Well, this provides sufficient motivation for me to write secondary essays this summer, in advance, for my application in 2011.

That's probably a bit early, except for maybe a few questions that are based on pre-college stuff. It seems like you'd want to include stuff that happened between summer 2010 and June 2011.

 

[theWUbear]

Just calculate your LizzyM score and delete all the schools that are too far above yours (maybe by 5? I don't know it depends on you personally).

If you want to be really detail oriented though exclude schools where you don't fit their "mission." For example, exclude schools that focus on research if you have none, or schools that focus on rural medicine if you have no experience with the poor. That kind of stuff.

I will be applying with a ~3.0 GPA (after a year of 3.9 post-bacc and a year of ~3.7 SMP). The rest of my application, including MCAT/published research/extracurriculars is outstanding. I also have extensive clinical experience with underserved & minority populations (my goal as a physician, also). No matter where on the list the school is, one school is going to have to say "ok, this applicant has about a 3.8 in all BCPM for the last two years, and the rest of the app is phenomenal, so we're going to forgive the 2.7 theWUbear graduated college with because of the rest of theWUbear's app and potential". I feel like lizzyM score doesn't apply to me as such a whacked-out (slightly non-trad?) applicant. I obviously won't apply to the top schools. But as we get to the mid-level schools, somebody's going to like all the research I've been published with and my commitment to research with urban populations - I would imagine. Doesn't help me with eliminating schools for my list.

That's probably a bit early, except for maybe a few questions that are based on pre-college stuff. It seems like you'd want to include stuff that happened between summer 2010 and June 2011.

Great point...I guess it won't hurt to expose myself to a lot of them, and all I'll be doing is adding a year of SMP, but I will have to consider that.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Another factor to keep in mind as far as OOS acceptances go, is that some schools seem to only accept really outstanding OOS students and then their avg. state students (not just talking Cali here). Basiclly, saying "we'd prefer to take instate, but if you're awesome from OOS we might take you too." That can skew avgs. a bit. I'd check the school specific threads for info on this.

 

[Schemp]

Great point...I guess it won't hurt to expose myself to a lot of them, and all I'll be doing is adding a year of SMP, but I will have to consider that.

Exposing yourself to them is probably a very good idea - just something you can keep with you and if some event happens you think of something that you think would go well in a secondary, you can write it down so you don't forget.

 

[fahimaz7]

While I'm not one of the schools that you listed above, I'm currently attending a school that is accepts "mostly in-state residents". On average, we have 2-3 OOS students, and we are capped at 5% (of 190) of our class being from OOS. If we violate that, we lose state funding.

~2000 OOS apply for 3 spots = for OOS applicant.

 

[ThaliaNox]

I saw that my school, MSU was on your list of possible OOS schools. Keep in mind that MSU is 70,000 dollars per year in tuition alone for OOSers. Yes, we have OOS students, but they tend to either be very wealthy or be on military scholarships. It seems like each year there are a lot of folks complaining that they only got into one really expensive school and now they don't want to go there. Only apply to schools you can see yourself attending AND paying for!

 

[theWUbear]

I saw that my school, MSU was on your list of possible OOS schools. Keep in mind that MSU is 70,000 dollars per year in tuition alone for OOSers. Yes, we have OOS students, but they tend to either be very wealthy or be on military scholarships. It seems like each year there are a lot of folks complaining that they only got into one really expensive school and now they don't want to go there. Only apply to schools you can see yourself attending AND paying for!

 

[mexicochangedme]

also, there are some schools (arkansas and alabama come to mind, but i'm sure there are others...) that give OOSers a huge leg up if they have some "tie" to the state (but no residency). I was offered an interview (but declined) based on the fact that my mom does a lot of work in the state...and I've never been there except passing through on road trips a few times as a small child.

just something to think about!

 

[mvenus929]

All of this information leaves me back at square one. I see no reason why not to apply to like 80 percent of medical schools. The only limiting factors are ca$hmoney and how many secondary essays I can handle writing. I guess Morsetlis has a good idea to knock some schools out. Is there a thread on sdn that describes how to choose where to apply if you're a low-stat applicant who wants to do his/her best to ensure acceptance somewhere? Why don't more people apply to like 40 schools?

SC will only consider you if you have strong ties to the state... they even have a question on their secondary asking what your ties to the state are.

A lot of people apply to fewer schools because they concentrate them. If you're from the east coast, lucky you because you have medical schools at your fingertips and you're more likely to be accepted by your state school. Purely anecdotal, but I'm from Colorado and I've been accepted to two eastern state schools and have yet to hear back from my own state school. Competition is rough over this way.

I applied to 9 schools, but I had limiting factors. I didn't want to go to school in certain states, the western states (other than CO) were out because they don't take OOS applicants, and I had AP credits for my prereqs, which knocked out a LOT of schools. I don't have research experience, so I stayed away from the OMG RESEARCH heavy schools (with the exception of UPenn). My limits weren't my stats, but I still had them. In the end, I'm happy with the schools I applied to (except one, but I got accepted elsewhere, so that's ok).

 

[Morsetlis]

Dude, research isn't all that bad, esp. med-student clinical research.

 

[metallica81788]

Don't take the fact that it doesn't have the "mostly in-state" label as truth.

UNC doesn't have that label and it's nearly impossible to get in OOS. It's a spreadsheet formula, and you have to know previous patterns and exceptions to the rules. For example:
-Maryland takes decent amount of OOS but prefers regionals, Wake Forest too
-TX schools may only take 10% OOS, but if you're from nearby (like LA) you have a better shot, same for UAB
etc, etc, etc...

 

[apumic]

Don't take the fact that it doesn't have the "mostly in-state" label as truth.

UNC doesn't have that label and it's nearly impossible to get in OOS. It's a spreadsheet formula, and you have to know previous patterns and exceptions to the rules. For example:
-Maryland takes decent amount of OOS but prefers regionals, Wake Forest too
-TX schools may only take 10% OOS, but if you're from nearby (like LA) you have a better shot, same for UAB
etc, etc, etc...

VERY true post.

Remember... the spreadsheet can only be as "smart" as the data put into it. You still have to do the legwork to verify its "suggestions." The Mostly In-State and No OOS flags are simply triggered by that data. If you were to change the data, those flags would change as well.

 

[mvenus929]

Dude, research isn't all that bad, esp. med-student clinical research.

I assume you're talking to me, so I'm responding in kind. I never said there was anything against research, but having absolutely no research going in puts me at a disadvantage in applying to research focused schools. After all, if a school is focused on turning out researchers (hence the OMG RESEARCH note), why are they going to admit someone who doesn't have an interest in research?

 

[Morsetlis]

Good point.

I thought you were saying that, as a general rule, one shouldn't apply to research-heavy schools because of thesis requirements/expectations.