Opening Med School to "Dreamer" (undocumented, DACA) Students

[bip2]

Hi everyone,
My classmates and I at the University of Washington School of Medicine are starting a national campaign to change med school requirements so that "Dreamer" (DACA) students can apply and join us as classmates and colleagues. Dreamers are applicants who were brought to the US illegally as children, and now share our dream of serving patients as doctors. (Currently, there's only ONE med school in the country accepting applications from these students: Stritch School of Medicine).

We've built a website that connects the work on this issue at every allopathic and osteopathic medical school. If you share our vision of opening med schools to a broader, more diverse pool of applicants, please open a chapter at your school by activating the petition for your school on our site: medstudents4dreamers.org. Opening a chapter (activating the petition) at your school only takes about five minutes. The site has all the high-yield information you need to learn about this issue, and simple, quick steps to take action.

Many thanks,
-bip, from UW School of Medicine
medstudents4dreamers.org

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[organdonor]

It is unfortunate this disparity exists in our medical education. I've got a friend that is a DREAMer and had to take several years off after college in order to find a way to 1. apply and 2. pay for medical school.

Even under DACA these students aren't eligible for federal loans and it would be exceedingly rare for someone with this background to have family able to help with the cost of medical school. They would be left with getting a citizen to cosign for loans (I'm not sure if this would work for federal loans though) or start on the pathway to becoming a citizen by marriage or declaring yourself an illegal immigrant by moving back to their parents country and beginning the process from the beginning

 

[witzelsucht]

I don't know it sounds like a nice idea but really there's already so much competition for medical school maybe we shouldn't increase that? I know several people from my fraternity at William & Mary couldn't get in the first time and had to take a year off and they had a really high standard of living so its not really fair to people who are used to the high income lifestyle to not be able to get thet because of competition you know?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I don't know it sounds like a nice idea but really there's already so much competition for medical school maybe we shouldn't increase that? I know several people from my fraternity at William & Mary couldn't get in the first time and had to take a year off and they had a really high standard of living so its not really fair to people who are used to the high income lifestyle to not be able to get thet because of competition you know?

Not sure if serious.

 

[bip2]

Organdonor: you're right - the next big hurdle will be financing. In Illinois, the State Finance Authority created a mirror program to the Federal Loans that most of us take out, pegged to the same rate. I've been told by a close source that the Finance Authority said it was a good move financially, since med students are super-low actuarial risks on student loans. Here in Washington State we just passed a new law to allow Dreamer (DACA) students to apply for state-backed loans as well, although it's currently just for undergraduate education. So I agree, $ is a big barrier, but is it a reason to deny these young people the right to even apply to medical school?

Witzelsucht: no words!

 

[bashir]

I don't know it sounds like a nice idea but really there's already so much competition for medical school maybe we shouldn't increase that? I know several people from my fraternity at William & Mary couldn't get in the first time and had to take a year off and they had a really high standard of living so its not really fair to people who are used to the high income lifestyle to not be able to get thet because of competition you know?

If this is indeed satire, well done. I had a moment when I read it at face value and my jaw literally dropped at the brazen entitlement on display. You got me.

 

[deleted480308]

no one who isn't a citizen has a "right" to apply to medical school using federal loans...they do however have a right to apply for citizenship and go through the process

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm Hispanic and against giving dreamers a seat in medical school or other similar professional schools. It's a waste to train people for a job they can't have.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I don't know it sounds like a nice idea but really there's already so much competition for medical school maybe we shouldn't increase that? I know several people from my fraternity at William & Mary couldn't get in the first time and had to take a year off and they had a really high standard of living so its not really fair to people who are used to the high income lifestyle to not be able to get thet because of competition you know?

Lol. Thought you were serious until the last sentence. Well played.

As to the OP, don't you have to be a legal resident (citizen or green card holder) to get federal loans? I mean, if a DREAMer wanted to go really badly, they could take out private loans (some private loan places have deferment built in), right?

 

[bip2]

Evilbooyaa: you're right about the requirements for federal loans. And, you're right about private loans, too. I have been in contact with a number of students who have financed med school via private loans.

sb247: I get you; nobody likes to hear the sound of an entitled argument - "right to apply." But I do feel strongly that people who were brought here as kids, grew up in the states, have applied for DACA status and received it, should be allowed to apply.

AlbinoHawk DO: Did you know that DACA status grants recipients both a social security number and a work permit? That means there is no longer a barrier to work for these applicants, like there used to be.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Evilbooyaa: you're right about the requirements for federal loans. And, you're right about private loans, too. I have been in contact with a number of students who have financed med school via private loans.

Okay, then. I think DACA students (assuming most of them are of Mexican or some other hispanic descent) should be given any benefits given to general URMs. The difference between DACA and URM will be where their source of funding comes from school. It's unfortunate for their financial situation as private loans may be more pricey, but I maintain that federal loans should be for people who are legal residents of the US.

 

[DermViser]

Hi everyone,
My classmates and I at the University of Washington School of Medicine are starting a national campaign to change med school requirements so that "Dreamer" (DACA) students can apply and join us as classmates and colleagues. Dreamers are applicants who were brought to the US illegally as children, and now share our dream of serving patients as doctors. (Currently, there's only ONE med school in the country accepting applications from these students: Stritch School of Medicine).

We've built a website that connects the work on this issue at every allopathic and osteopathic medical school. If you share our vision of opening med schools to a broader, more diverse pool of applicants, please open a chapter at your school by activating the petition for your school on our site: medstudents4dreamers.org. Opening a chapter (activating the petition) at your school only takes about five minutes. The site has all the high-yield information you need to learn about this issue, and simple, quick steps to take action.

Many thanks,
-bip, from UW School of Medicine
medstudents4dreamers.org

Ok, so in other words you wish to open up medical school admissions to illegal immigrants. Be honest and stop trying to manipulate the language to tug on heart strings. You don't have a "right" to apply to medical school. Also, what are you going to do on the residency level, when residencies want to know your citizenship status?

 

[bip2]

DermViser,
You and I see this issue very differently. Where you see an illegal immigrant, I see a child who was brought to the US and grew up here, and now has registered with the US Citizen and Immigration Services' DACA program. You're right that in the past, before the DACA program, these young men and women wouldn't have been able to get a residency position, but this is no longer true. The program grants a work visa and a Social Security number; this is what residency programs require, so there is no obstacle. That's why Stritch School of Medicine already made the change to accept these applicants, already 9 in this year's application cycle. Also, there are DACA students who have actually attended medical school (very few) who began residency programs with their new DACA status last July.

 

[BANGO]

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[evilbooyaa]

Completely agree. If this were to happen, it would only incentivize this federal crime even more (smuggling yourself into the states and having anchor babies (for free), which later leads to a guaranteed education for your kids, at (likely forthcoming) in-state tuition rates to boot). I really don't see how people see this as a "human rights" and "racism" issue as is portrayed in the media.

You think that allowing the children of illegal immigrants the opportunity to apply for medical school is going to make them emigrate to the US in significantly larger numbers? I say just treat them like AA/URM kids that apply to medical school. Except that they can't get federal funding and have to take out private loans.

When you say guaranteed education, do you mean grade school or medical school? If it's the former, then this doesn't change anything. If it's the latter, I don't believe this is 'guaranteed' by any definition of that word.

Also, if DACA gives people a social security number, they are a step above regular illegal immigrants for me.

 

[DermViser]

Completely agree. If this were to happen, it would only incentivize this federal crime even more (smuggling yourself into the states and having anchor babies (for free), which later leads to a guaranteed education for your kids, at (likely forthcoming) in-state tuition rates to boot). I really don't see how people see this as a "human rights" and "racism" issue as is portrayed in the media.

Yes, apparently, now illegal immigrants (and yes, they are, just like if I was living in France without a visa, I would be an illegal immigrant there), have a "right" to in-state tuition even though their parents haven't paid taxes to fund those universities (meanwhile while other citizens are paying out-of-state tuition), have a "right" to apply to medical school (which is once again, heavily subsidized by tax dollars), have a "right" to federal loans (paid by tax dollars), etc. I mean, really?

 

[evilbooyaa]

Yes, apparently, now illegal immigrants (and yes, they are, just like if I was living in France without a visa, I would be an illegal immigrant there), have a "right" to in-state tuition even though their parents haven't paid taxes to fund those universities (meanwhile while other citizens are paying out-of-state tuition), have a "right" to apply to medical school (which is once again, heavily subsidized by tax dollars), have a "right" to federal loans (paid by tax dollars), etc. I mean, really?

I don't agree that they should be given access to the 2 bolded points.

I think DACA Dreamers or whatever should pay OOS tuition regardless of the school, and that federal loans shouldn't be an option for them. I personally don't have an issue with them applying to medical school in the first place, however.

Some info about DREAM and how it relates to college (not medical school) acceptance - http://professionals.collegeboard.com/guidance/financial-aid/undocumented-students

In 2011, the DREAM (Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors) Act was introduced into the 112th Congress. If passed, this legislation would permit undocumented students to begin a six-year process leading to permanent legal status if, among other requirements, they graduate from a U.S. high school and came to the U.S. at the age of 15 or younger at least five years before the legislation is signed into law. To complete the process they would, within the six-year period, be required to graduate from a community college, complete at least two years toward a four-year degree, or serve at least two years in the U.S. military. These individuals would qualify for in-state tuition rates in all states during the six-year period.

 

[BANGO]

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[evilbooyaa]

Sorry..No I didn't mean just medical school. I'm speaking in more general terms..if they were to open admission to illegals to med school..it would likely also apply to every other graduate/professional program imaginable. I think this would indeed make the U.S. even more attractive. Education (from minor benefits in public K-12 education up through post-secondary) will become easier to access and more affordable in years to come for illegals.

So K-12 is already guaranteed to illegal immigrants. College, as I linked above, is generally difficult to pay for since they cannot get federal loans. Graduate school, without federal loans (and likely without sufficient parental support) would be a heavy debt load as well. I disagree that allowing illegal immigrants into graduate schooling would increase # of illegal immigrants in the US.

I think before federal and state governments just keep providing more and more benefits and freedoms to illegals they need to focus on tightening up things up at the border. Focus resources on fixing the loopholes first (to prevent this whole thing from happening and rectify the economical effects and stop the accompanying narcotics flow that is ruining our country) THEN you can focus on seeing how we can best incorporate illegals into our society for the betterment of everyone.

I do agree with your general premise. I wish there weren't as many illegal immigrants as well (even though all fruits/vegetables would be more expensive), but the fact is, they are here now. I think turning illegal immigrant children (who aren't really to blame for being in the US, IMO) into productive members of society (and with a SS card, would pay taxes) isn't the worst idea in the world.

 

[BANGO]

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[notbobtrustme]

Most of these kids were brought here when they were young anyways. What are doing as a society when we say "no **** you"? You think a kid at 5 is going to say to his mom "no mom, I'm not going because I'm going to be an illegal immigrant and I want to apply to medical school".

I support this because we shouldn't be in the business of punishing children for their parents' sins.

And no, this doesn't create a moral hazard because people are going to immigrate illegally regardless of w/e or not their children will have access to college/medical school. That **** doesn't even enter the equation when they are backpacking through 500 miles of Arizona desert. This isn't going to be the thing that seals the deal if a family was on the edge of immigrating illegally.

 

[Psai]

Honestly if they have the intelligence and the drive, I don't see why not. There are already a ton of foreigners already training in our system.

 

[DermViser]

Honestly if they have the intelligence and the drive, I don't see why not. There are already a ton of foreigners already training in our system.

One big difference they did it legally, without hopping ahead in line.

 

[notbobtrustme]

One big difference they did it legally, without hoping ahead in line.

There's no hopping ahead in line?

This is punishing a kid for their parents' sins. Thought we were supposed to emulate Christ, not say "**** that noise". Some of these kids came when they were infants or toddlers. Why are we denying them the American dream, especially when they had no choice in immigrating illegally. This isn't some 18 or 20 year old hopping the border, in which case, I would be agreeing with you. However, this is a small subset of illegal immigrants who are being punished solely because of their parents' decisions.

 

[evilbooyaa]

One big difference they did it legally, without hopping ahead in line.

Like the other poster said, not sure how they're 'hopping ahead in line'. Like I said, treat them like any URM (since most/all of these students will be of hispanic descent).

We will see soon that these federal loans will be open to DREAMers - there is a lot of support there, and with this I do think they will open the floodgates for admissions.

All I can do is be against this and vote for those politicians who won't support it. If the majority of the country disagrees with me, then so be it. Democracy and stuff.

I think all of these factors combined will definitely increase the illegals coming over (or at least the # that would want to come over), not instantly, but certainly after a few years when these highly educated DREAMer's let their compadres in Central America know of how they were able to achieve the ultimate successes in America.

I see where you're coming from. If the federal loan support happens, I could see this happening in the future (5+ years).

 

[felix2929]

Would they legally be allowed to work in the US when they finish school? Is this DACA thing automatic naturalization or something? Mexico has its own medical schools and as of now they would still be able to attempt to legally return to the US as an FMG.

 

[Dave89]

Ok, so in other words you wish to open up medical school admissions to illegal immigrants. Be honest and stop trying to manipulate the language to tug on heart strings. You don't have a "right" to apply to medical school. Also, what are you going to do on the residency level, when residencies want to know your citizenship status?

No human is illegal!!!

 

[BANGO]

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[DermViser]

No human is illegal!!!

If I go to another a country, without a visa or overstay when my visa has expired, I am there ILLEGALLY and would make me an illegal immigrant.

No amount of changing and controlling the language on your part (i.e. calling them "undocumented", as if they misplaced their papers at home) changes that fact. Every country has borders and immigration laws for a reason.

 

[Dave89]

Haha, apparently I don't hang out around here enough for people to know I was joking.

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

Would they legally be allowed to work in the US when they finish school? Is this DACA thing automatic naturalization or something? Mexico has its own medical schools and as of now they would still be able to attempt to legally return to the US as an FMG.

Yes. Persons who have received DACA can apply for a two year renewable work permit and get a SSN from the IRS.

 

[Lets Get Free]

Awesome work you guys are doing at UW - I know a lot of other medical schools are trying to find ways to support these competitive applicants and keep them in-state.

 

[Prauds]

Hi! I'd like to say that I think it's what UW is doing is wonderful!! One of my friends has DACA status, and he gets an SSN and a work authorization. I also know for a fact, that his parents do pay taxes. He's been here since he was 2, and . I think he deserves a chance to apply and go to medical school as much as any other legal resident.

 

[AlexJK]

Hi everyone,
My classmates and I at the University of Washington School of Medicine are starting a national campaign to change med school requirements so that "Dreamer" (DACA) students can apply and join us as classmates and colleagues. Dreamers are applicants who were brought to the US illegally as children, and now share our dream of serving patients as doctors. (Currently, there's only ONE med school in the country accepting applications from these students: Stritch School of Medicine).

We've built a website that connects the work on this issue at every allopathic and osteopathic medical school. If you share our vision of opening med schools to a broader, more diverse pool of applicants, please open a chapter at your school by activating the petition for your school on our site: medstudents4dreamers.org. Opening a chapter (activating the petition) at your school only takes about five minutes. The site has all the high-yield information you need to learn about this issue, and simple, quick steps to take action.

Many thanks,
-bip, from UW School of Medicine
medstudents4dreamers.org

The first 2 things I thought about when I read this post was...
1) Your school doesnt accept "Dreamers"
2) Your website is very bad.

Before you jump into the international spotlight, you may need to fix those 2 issues. Start at a level where you can make some change. Maybe start with your school first. Maybe after you accomplish something, it would be easier for other people to emulate.

Lastly, I dont know why this is a very important cause. I for one would prefer to fight for legislature that will help these "dreamers" become citizens, or at least get them started down this road.

 

[Giovanotto]

All I will say is this: Talking about taxes (and who paid what to who and for how long) when you're not familiar with the US immigration system and its path to citizenship is extremely asinine.

Before having an opinion on DACA and URM become educated about your countries policy. The ignorance in this thread is appalling.

 

[CountryMed]

It is ashame, so many of my generation only think ideally. Yes, giving all the wonderful opportunity that we as citizens have would be awesome and IDEALLY would happen. But it isn't that easy, you must take from someone who has played by the rules. We can't afford to care for our own poor, educate our own cheaply, or provide adequate healthcare for out most needy... So why should those who don't pay taxes and aren't part of the population (citizens) that out government was founded to protect get special treatment. Many invest so much to go through the citizen pathway legally to be a part of this great nation, so why in the hell would be allow those who don't to cut in line. I don't get it, unless you only think ideally that is.

 

[OldSchoolMD]

I'm opposed to this. I don't think we should be encouraging more illegal immigration. It's unfortunate for the children, but they should practice medicine in their home country. We already do not have enough medical school and residency spots for US citizens.

 

[libraryismyhome]

This is an utter bull****.
My family and I waited for 8 years to get green cards and these people who cheated their way to be in U.S. get to apply to medical schools?
I studied biochemistry, graduated Summa Cum Laude, and could not apply to medical schools for three years because of waiting period.
I had so much time to waste so I took DAT and by the time I got my green card, I applied to medical and dental schools simultaneously.

 

[path or no path]

Hi everyone,
My classmates and I at the University of Washington School of Medicine are starting a national campaign to change med school requirements so that "Dreamer" (DACA) students can apply and join us as classmates and colleagues. Dreamers are applicants who were brought to the US illegally as children, and now share our dream of serving patients as doctors. (Currently, there's only ONE med school in the country accepting applications from these students: Stritch School of Medicine).

We've built a website that connects the work on this issue at every allopathic and osteopathic medical school. If you share our vision of opening med schools to a broader, more diverse pool of applicants, please open a chapter at your school by activating the petition for your school on our site: medstudents4dreamers.org. Opening a chapter (activating the petition) at your school only takes about five minutes. The site has all the high-yield information you need to learn about this issue, and simple, quick steps to take action.

Many thanks,
-bip, from UW School of Medicine
medstudents4dreamers.org

Help me understand this. In order to work in the U.S. you have to have some soft of legal status. If this DACA is revoked by the next president (which I hope it will be), how will these people be able to practice as physicians in the U.S?

Also, don't we have enough minority applicants already who are full citizens applying to medical school? Why should we add illegal aliens?

 

[path or no path]

Ok, so in other words you wish to open up medical school admissions to illegal immigrants. Be honest and stop trying to manipulate the language to tug on heart strings. You don't have a "right" to apply to medical school. Also, what are you going to do on the residency level, when residencies want to know your citizenship status?

It's also important to call a spade a spade. I am a legal immigrant myself, and went through the proper process to become a U.S. citizen. I find the politically correct rubbish being propagated in the mainstream media, such as "immigrants", "undocumented" infuriating. They are called illegal aliens and have broken U.S. immigration laws. I don't see why we should reward law breakers.