Ophthalmology Attending - AMA

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Does this concern you? Sort of like the mid-level encroachment in other fields?

There are always bills being proposed, and even rights granted to ODs for laser procedures, but I just cant see ever granting OR privileges to non medically trained practitioners. This was an issue when I was applying for residency, and as far back as a decade or two before. Its just not going to happen any time soon.

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This has been discussed a lot elsewhere in this forum, but what are your thoughts on the growing popularity of private equity takeover in ophthalmology? Do you foresee any major reversal in this trend in the next 5-10 years?

Unlikely as far as the trend itself, but it just depends on your setup. Its basically becoming an "expand or die" market. Fortunately Im set up in a practice with a main clinic and 3 satellites and we are working on another that will open this summer. Part of the equation is my practice is a family owned practice (not my family, but I am one of only 2 non family MDs). The CEO could have easily sold out and retired on millions from a PE buy-out but the family name and the next generation of surgeons was more valuable to him, plus Im sure hes already set up nicely for retirement. Also, now that Im partnered in, this doesnt concern me nearly as much, as now I would also receive a buy out payment, and I've never been really interested in running a company anyway, so having a different "Boss" wouldnt make much difference to me as long as I was able to maintain my current clinic and OR set ups.
 
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That’s how I feel as well. I love doing procedures, but I like them short and technical. My only exposure to ophtho cases was cataracts in the OR. Those seemed to take about 6-8 mins. What’s the range on procedure time? Like how long is your longest procedure and how often do you do it?

Oh, also: when you start to get older and not feel super comfortable handling sharp things near people’s eyes anymore, can you switch to non-surgical ophtho and still make okay money? Like I know you’ll make less, but can you keep the doors open with that? I’m guessing having a partner to refer the surgical stuff to makes it easier.

I’ve worked with a large number of cataract surgeons. 5-6min is the faster end. 10-12 min is typical. A few outliers average 45-60min even with decades of experience.

For reference, today I did 22 cataracts (2 with combined goniotomy, 1 with combined iStent inject), first cut at 815 and finished cases at 1130. My fastest case was 4 min 30 sec on a standard phaco, my longest case was 9 minutes on a highly uncooperative patient with deep set eyes which is already difficult anatomy to deal with. The 3 combo cases probably came closer to this as well. Subtract out about 1 minute after every case to speak with family, and about 30 minutes or so was spent in the Femto laser room to do the laser portion of my upgrade LACS cases. So if you're looking strictly at time I was scrubbed in that's roughly 2.5 hours. So my average case time (which some were standard, some combos, some had ORA to confirm IOL measurements, some were just more difficult) you could say is a little under 6.5 minutes.
 
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For reference, today I did 22 cataracts (2 with combined goniotomy, 1 with combined iStent inject), first cut at 815 and finished cases at 1130. My fastest case was 4 min 30 sec on a standard phaco, my longest case was 9 minutes on a highly uncooperative patient with deep set eyes which is already difficult anatomy to deal with. The 3 combo cases probably came closer to this as well. Subtract out about 1 minute after every case to speak with family, and about 30 minutes or so was spent in the Femto laser room to do the laser portion of my upgrade LACS cases. So if you're looking strictly at time I was scrubbed in that's roughly 2.5 hours. So my average case time (which some were standard, some combos, some had ORA to confirm IOL measurements, some were just more difficult) you could say is a little under 6.5 minutes.

Wow, that's awesome.
 
For reference, today I did 22 cataracts (2 with combined goniotomy, 1 with combined iStent inject), first cut at 815 and finished cases at 1130. My fastest case was 4 min 30 sec on a standard phaco, my longest case was 9 minutes on a highly uncooperative patient with deep set eyes which is already difficult anatomy to deal with. The 3 combo cases probably came closer to this as well. Subtract out about 1 minute after every case to speak with family, and about 30 minutes or so was spent in the Femto laser room to do the laser portion of my upgrade LACS cases. So if you're looking strictly at time I was scrubbed in that's roughly 2.5 hours. So my average case time (which some were standard, some combos, some had ORA to confirm IOL measurements, some were just more difficult) you could say is a little under 6.5 minutes.

815 to 1130 is like one case for us
 
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For reference, today I did 22 cataracts (2 with combined goniotomy, 1 with combined iStent inject), first cut at 815 and finished cases at 1130. My fastest case was 4 min 30 sec on a standard phaco, my longest case was 9 minutes on a highly uncooperative patient with deep set eyes which is already difficult anatomy to deal with. The 3 combo cases probably came closer to this as well. Subtract out about 1 minute after every case to speak with family, and about 30 minutes or so was spent in the Femto laser room to do the laser portion of my upgrade LACS cases. So if you're looking strictly at time I was scrubbed in that's roughly 2.5 hours. So my average case time (which some were standard, some combos, some had ORA to confirm IOL measurements, some were just more difficult) you could say is a little under 6.5 minutes.

Do you do this in one or 2 rooms?
 
Advice on how to do well on ophtho rotation?
 
For reference, today I did 22 cataracts (2 with combined goniotomy, 1 with combined iStent inject), first cut at 815 and finished cases at 1130. My fastest case was 4 min 30 sec on a standard phaco, my longest case was 9 minutes on a highly uncooperative patient with deep set eyes which is already difficult anatomy to deal with. The 3 combo cases probably came closer to this as well. Subtract out about 1 minute after every case to speak with family, and about 30 minutes or so was spent in the Femto laser room to do the laser portion of my upgrade LACS cases. So if you're looking strictly at time I was scrubbed in that's roughly 2.5 hours. So my average case time (which some were standard, some combos, some had ORA to confirm IOL measurements, some were just more difficult) you could say is a little under 6.5 minutes.

Well now you got me hooked into ophtho :wideyed::watching:
 
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Basically just get exposure as early as you can and try to build on it. The majority of your "worthwhile" exposure will come in med school, but it can never hurt to build some relationships even beforehand. The one thing you may be able to do to help bolster your application even as a premed would be to get involved in or at least show some interest in research. May be more difficult though unless you can find the right connections. But showing your interest and devotion to the specialty as early as possible would help, even though a majority of the people accepted dont have any of this experience beforehand. I dont think MD/DO is going to matter nearly as much as your other stats and whole application. As with many things, MD is inherently subconsciously preferred, but once youve gotten through med school in a competitive spot youve already leveled your playing field essentially and the MD/DO comparison will be lower on the list of pertinents.

Is any research okay for ophtho or do ophtho programs want to see ophtho-specific research? I found an interesting link regarding cardiac-ophtho connections: The Heart and the Eye: Seeing the Links

But was wondering whether someone can match well into ophtho despite not having ophtho research (assuming everything else is strong)?
 
Advice on how to do well on ophtho rotation?

Generally the same advice youll hear for most rotations. Show initiative but dont be the annoying gunner. Ophtho residents are pretty chill compared to other surgery residents, and overall are willing to help you if youre being genuine. The unfortunate thing is theres a lot of stuff in clinic that youre not going to be able to see yourself, like the fundus exam, although theres plenty of imaging these days where you can see the pathology. I would think most academic centers would have slit lamps with teaching scopes now, so you can still see a lot of things there like cataracts and corneal disease. If you see a patient that caught your interest, or there was an interesting case discussed that day, go home and research a little on it. Again, dont be gunneresque, but come in the next day with a question or 2 prepared to ask about it, and maybe a fact or two that you learned about it. "Oh, yeah that case was really interesting. I actually looked up a few things about it, I also wanted to ask *insert question*." Be prepared to assist with basic things like walking a patient somewhere or getting drops that are needed. Even if you dont get to learn much on a certain day, the little things you can do to help out a swamped resident will be noticed and add up, and then when youve got some downtime or a slower paced schedule they will be much more willing to show you things. Also make sure you get some OR exposure. Ask for it if its not a routine part of your ophtho rotation.
 
Well now you got me hooked into ophtho :wideyed::watching:

You send in an application yet???

Ophtho-specific research is most definitely preferred, but something like the article you linked has clear association and would be great, even if you were coming at it from the cardiac standpoint. I honestly had no ophtho research because I was originally interested in ortho. I think this definitely hurt me overall, but it didnt prevent me from matching. Over the last decade since I matched, research continues to become more and more valued and required of an applicant, whether you like it or not. Having ophtho specific research will likely become a pre-requisite some day in the future, but I still think as long as you have something on your record that shows you were actively engaged, even if it wasnt ophtho at the time, then you should be ok. The great thing about research, despite how much I personally didnt care for it in an applicant sense, is that it can make up for a lower average testing score. Not saying you can bomb Step 1, but if you had a 233 like I did plus legit ophtho specific research youre going to still have a chance against the 250s with no research.
 
You send in an application yet???

Ophtho-specific research is most definitely preferred, but something like the article you linked has clear association and would be great, even if you were coming at it from the cardiac standpoint. I honestly had no ophtho research because I was originally interested in ortho. I think this definitely hurt me overall, but it didnt prevent me from matching. Over the last decade since I matched, research continues to become more and more valued and required of an applicant, whether you like it or not. Having ophtho specific research will likely become a pre-requisite some day in the future, but I still think as long as you have something on your record that shows you were actively engaged, even if it wasnt ophtho at the time, then you should be ok. The great thing about research, despite how much I personally didnt care for it in an applicant sense, is that it can make up for a lower average testing score. Not saying you can bomb Step 1, but if you had a 233 like I did plus legit ophtho specific research youre going to still have a chance against the 250s with no research.

Thanks! Quick question and sorry if this was mentioned before:

how necessary/important are aways for ophtho? I realize it's application dependent and also depends on the availability of a home ophtho program, but is it generally advised to do 1-2 aways in ophtho? or maybe nah at risk of looking weird to programs and potentially get ranked lower?
 
Thanks! Quick question and sorry if this was mentioned before:

how necessary/important are aways for ophtho? I realize it's application dependent and also depends on the availability of a home ophtho program, but is it generally advised to do 1-2 aways in ophtho? or maybe nah at risk of looking weird to programs and potentially get ranked lower?

I would say 1 for sure (thats what I did), just to get some exposure and insight into another program's workings, residents, philosophy, etc. Theres no way to guarantee yourself a match spot just because youve done 2 aways or even 3. But you did mention an important thing - home program. Probably the biggest factor, aside from wanting a specific program (then doing an away there is a no brainer). The stronger your home program is and the more spots your home program has make it less of a necessity to do an away. If your home program has a lot of applicants that year with only 2 spots, or you dont even have a home program, then aways are going to become a necessity. From an application standpoint, no one is going to look at your app and think "person A did 1 away, person B did 3, we like person B better." But be prepared to be honest about where you did aways and why because people will ask that during the interview. Also be prepared to answer why you didnt do an away if you didnt (although again, not necessarily a negative thing, but theyll want to know why).
 
Lastly, the big MD vs OD debate. You'll hear all over this site in every specialty forum how mid levels are taking over everything, etc. Go back through the ophtho forums almost 15 years and youll see the same debates happening that there are today. Ophthalmologists aren't going extinct, and we are actually looking at a shortage of them by 2020. In fact, with the baby boomer population and the advent of femtosecond laser cataract surgery (LACS) and premium IOL implants, the future couldnt be brighter for patient volume and reimbursement, despite actual insurance reimbursements slowly being cut (and across all fields of medicine, mind you). Sure, there are rogue optometrists with a big ego out there wanting to be surgeons without doing all the work necessary but these are the exceptions, not the rule. Not a single OD ive ever met or talked to has any desire to perform even laser procedures, must less surgical ones.
.

I'd say the threat is actually a bigger deal, or should at least be thought of as a bigger deal. This belief of only a few rogue optometrists wanting to do surgery is exactly the reason fundraising by ophthalmologists is terrible compared to optometrists who pull multiple millions per year fighting to do laser/scalpel surgery. The older generation of settled optometrist might not care about surgery, but the younger ones definitely do- rotations in optom school are having optoms shadow in the OR (I mean, yeah, maybe they are observing surgeries because they are helping to manage post ops, but sooner or later they'll be scrubbing in!) I am aware of multiple "efficient" private ophthalmology practices that actually have PAs performing parts of cataract surgeries i.e. main wounds and lens insertion. Mid level encroachment is real and needs to be fought hard against.
 
So random question out of curiosity but how often do you see angle-closure and normal-tension glaucomas? I realize they're probably rare compared to open-angle glaucomas but just curious whether you still see them in practice or it's more common in training.

Was peeping through here: Types of Glaucoma :bookworm::watching:
 
How would you comment on md vs mdphd applicants? Is basic science research for 4 years considered helpful or doesn't make too much difference compared to a MD student publishing several case reports.
 
So random question out of curiosity but how often do you see angle-closure and normal-tension glaucomas? I realize they're probably rare compared to open-angle glaucomas but just curious whether you still see them in practice or it's more common in training.

Was peeping through here: Types of Glaucoma :bookworm::watching:

Narrow angle is actually fairly common, whats uncommon is to have them present in an actual acute angle closure crisis. I may only see a few of those a year, but Id say around 15-20% of my total glaucoma population is some form of non-open angle, such as narrow angle, normal/low tension, traumatic, inflammatory, angle recession, and then all the rare weird ones. But narrow angle is fairly common relatively speaking, I see at least 3-4 every few weeks out of my routine established patients. The typical presentation is someone there for a routine exam, or referred for high eye pressure or changes in their optic nerve, and then on exam with gonioscopy you find that they have narrow angles. Treatment is the same as open angle with lowering the eye pressure, but narrow angle patients need to get a prophylactic LPI (laser peripheral iridotomy - hole in the iris) to prevent actual angle closure episodes.

Normal/Low tension is more of a complex thing and is less common. It's actually often misdiagnosed - someone with seemingly "low" eye pressure but whose cornea is extremely thin makes their actually pressure reading artificially low (ie someone with a pressure of 15 with a very thin cornea may have a true pressure of 21, which is causing nerve damage, but its really open angle, not "normal tension" glaucoma).
 
How would you comment on md vs mdphd applicants? Is basic science research for 4 years considered helpful or doesn't make too much difference compared to a MD student publishing several case reports.

I'd say certainly any in depth research that youre contributing is better than nothing at all and would put you ahead of people who have no research, but I think the MD/field specific research is going to weigh much more heavily in the residency application process than some generic basic science stuff, especially if youre getting 1st/2nd authors and presenting at conferences, etc.
 
I'd say certainly any in depth research that youre contributing is better than nothing at all and would put you ahead of people who have no research, but I think the MD/field specific research is going to weigh much more heavily in the residency application process than some generic basic science stuff, especially if youre getting 1st/2nd authors and presenting at conferences, etc.

Do programs count research outside of ophtho, or do they want to see a ton of ophtho research?
 
Do programs count research outside of ophtho, or do they want to see a ton of ophtho research?

Like I said, these residency spots keep getting more and more competitive, so some degree of research is going to be required. I basically had some unrelated ortho research from 1st/2nd year of med school which wasnt much of anything, and a collaborative research project with my glaucoma attending that never became a publication. I think that definitely set me back a good bit (I matched 4th/8 at my home program) and its only getting more and more important. A lot of things can make up for minimal research like a huge step score/connections but at this point everyone continues to be more and more the "same" in terms of board scores and letters and overall qualifications, leaving research as the big differentiator. Thats not to say you cant match without it, but youre creating an uphill battle for yourself. The exception, obviously, is a late interest in ophtho with leaves no time for research, but in which case you better have something else going, whether its basic science or some other field (ie - me with ortho).
 
Like I said, these residency spots keep getting more and more competitive, so some degree of research is going to be required. I basically had some unrelated ortho research from 1st/2nd year of med school which wasnt much of anything, and a collaborative research project with my glaucoma attending that never became a publication. I think that definitely set me back a good bit (I matched 4th/8 at my home program) and its only getting more and more important. A lot of things can make up for minimal research like a huge step score/connections but at this point everyone continues to be more and more the "same" in terms of board scores and letters and overall qualifications, leaving research as the big differentiator. Thats not to say you cant match without it, but youre creating an uphill battle for yourself. The exception, obviously, is a late interest in ophtho with leaves no time for research, but in which case you better have something else going, whether its basic science or some other field (ie - me with ortho).

Yeah I enjoy research and plan on doing it. Just wasn’t sure if having research in a different field would hurt me.
 
So random question out of curiosity but how often do you see angle-closure and normal-tension glaucomas? I realize they're probably rare compared to open-angle glaucomas but just curious whether you still see them in practice or it's more common in training.

Was peeping through here: Types of Glaucoma:bookworm::watching:

Interesting case this week for you for yet another type of glacuoma: Phacomorphic glaucoma (under the secondary glaucoma category, one of 3 different types of lens related glaucomas). Diabetic patient who has developed an intumescent cataract (basically the lens accumulating fluid and swelling secondary to uncontrolled blood sugar) which results in a narrowing of the anterior chamber, mimicking an angle closure type situation with an increased IOP. So she will require cataract surgery to extract the lens and open her chamber back up, restoring normal flow of aqueous and normalizing the IOP.
 
Do you think optho would be difficult for someone with poor coordination/hands?

Or for someone with pre existing neck or back issues? How demanding is it?
 
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Do you think optho would be difficult for someone with poor coordination/hands?

Or for someone with pre existing neck or back issues? How demanding is it?

I think that aspect is pretty similar to other surgical fields, the big difference being use of the microscope. Im pretty coordinated but even I had doubts about the ability to adjust to the scope and be able to operate that way. Its definitely a big learning curve like most things in ophtho, but its just something youll have to work on, and I think a majority of people should be able to learn how to manage it. When youre on a rotation or following a private doc, try to get them to let you look through the scope as much as possible. Your depth perception and proprioception are the biggest things to adapt to. Then again, like most things in life, there are some people that just wont get it; thats why its important to get that exposure before deciding on anything (and even then, theres no guarantees), as there have definitely been residents that had to drop out or switch specialties because of this.

Back and neck issues can definitely be the death of a surgeon, particularly if you have pre-existing issues. Chair and scope positioning is paramount. When you think about it, the surgeries may only be a few minutes, but most people are doing multiple cases throughout the day, so all that time adds up. I use a standard stool with no back or arms, whereas my senior partner and his son both have some neck/back issues and they operate with a chair with a back and arms for more support, and do some stretching before/after their cases. Again, something that likely wont prevent you from having a career in ophtho, but certain accommodations may be needed and making sure youve always got proper positioning.
 
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I think that aspect is pretty similar to other surgical fields, the big difference being use of the microscope. Im pretty coordinated but even I had doubts about the ability to adjust to the scope and be able to operate that way. Its definitely a big learning curve like most things in ophtho, but its just something youll have to work on, and I think a majority of people should be able to learn how to manage it. When youre on a rotation or following a private doc, try to get them to let you look through the scope as much as possible. Your depth perception and proprioception are the biggest things to adapt to. Then again, like most things in life, there are some people that just wont get it; thats why its important to get that exposure before deciding on anything (and even then, theres no guarantees), as there have definitely been residents that had to drop out or switch specialties because of this.

Back and neck issues can definitely be the death of a surgeon, particularly if you have pre-existing issues. Chair and scope positioning is paramount. When you think about it, the surgeries may only be a few minutes, but most people are doing multiple cases throughout the day, so all that time adds up. I use a standard stool with no back or arms, whereas my senior partner and his son both have some neck/back issues and they operate with a chair with a back and arms for more support, and do some stretching before/after their cases. Again, something that likely wont prevent you from having a career in ophtho, but certain accommodations may be needed and making sure youve always got proper positioning.
thank you so much for this. i will definitely try to get as much exposure as possible.

That information about accommodating yourself and practicing is so helpful!
 
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@cubsrule4e

I see that the average salary for ophtho is 350-450k. I can't help but wonder, why salaries aren't MUCH higher?

The bread and butter procedures (cataracts w/ iol placement, pterygium, etc) generate ~10 work RVU's. Most ophthalmologists I know, perform at least 30 surgeries a week. Most see about ~40 pts in clinic 3 days a week (each generates about 1.6 wRVU's). So on a given week, an ophthalmologist produces ~500 work RVU's. That's $20k+.

Thanks
 
@cubsrule4e

I see that the average salary for ophtho is 350-450k. I can't help but wonder, why salaries aren't MUCH higher?

The bread and butter procedures (cataracts w/ iol placement, pterygium, etc) generate ~10 work RVU's. Most ophthalmologists I know, perform at least 30 surgeries a week. Most see about ~40 pts in clinic 3 days a week (each generates about 1.6 wRVU's). So on a given week, an ophthalmologist produces ~500 work RVU's. That's $20k+.

Thanks

First, you have to consider the billing fees vs the insurance allowables vs what is actually paid at the end, and then what portion of that goes to the physician vs the surgery center. I do a fair amount of medicaid (some docs refuse to even take it) at my satellite clinic and I think the MD makes about $500 or less on a cataract which is pretty insane. Good insurance like blue cross youre making about $700, then of course if you can sell upgrades for laser usage or a premium IOL thats where youre really making the money.

Second, 30 cataracts is very high volume, youre looking at 1500+ a year and i would say that MOST surgeons arent even doing 1,000. Ive done right around 1,000 (16-22/week) for my last couple years with my partners doing closer to the 1200-1500 range. So Im not sure what area youre in but those are high volume surgeons and that is not the norm. I just cleared 400K in 2018, so I guarantee you those 30/wk surgeons are doing better than that, but maybe just not disclosing it.

Then theres partnership status. Even after the first quarter this year with my partnership earnings now added in Im already easily going to clear 450 and I'm still building my satellite clinic even 6 years in now.

To your point about clinic, those 40 pts in a clinic are a big mix, many are probably post ops which pay nothing, or rechecks, or exams without testing so you have to decrease your expected calculations on those clinic returns.

All in all, the "Average" ophthalmologist still cant complain about 350-450K for the work we do in the minimal amount of hours that we do it.
 
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@cubsrule4e

I see that the average salary for ophtho is 350-450k. I can't help but wonder, why salaries aren't MUCH higher?

The bread and butter procedures (cataracts w/ iol placement, pterygium, etc) generate ~10 work RVU's. Most ophthalmologists I know, perform at least 30 surgeries a week. Most see about ~40 pts in clinic 3 days a week (each generates about 1.6 wRVU's). So on a given week, an ophthalmologist produces ~500 work RVU's. That's $20k+.

Thanks

Also, I dont know if youre including minor procedures like lasers in the total "surgery" category. That would be much more realistic for the "average" ophthalmologist (15 surgeries plus 10 lasers a week) and obviously lasers dont pay nearly as much. I think the allowable for a YAG capsulotomy is about $1000 for which I actually collect about $300-350.
 
Also, I dont know if youre including minor procedures like lasers in the total "surgery" category. That would be much more realistic for the "average" ophthalmologist (15 surgeries plus 10 lasers a week) and obviously lasers dont pay nearly as much. I think the allowable for a YAG capsulotomy is about $1000 for which I actually collect about $300-350.
Thank you very much for the detailed response.

The ophthalmologist I know does about 15-20 cataracts a week, most with IOL. He also does about 5-10 LASIK and 5-10 other stuff (pterygium, corneal implants, etc). His patient population is mainly privately insured and the rest are medicare. I doubt his group sees any medicaid pts. He easily clears over 1M a year despite having an overhead that eats up 60% or more of his overall collection.

I do realize that his average $/RVU is higher than average given his patient population but I'm surprised that this alone translates into 3x the average income.

Regardless, ophthalmology is awesome.
 
@cubsrule4e hello again! Do you think it would work against me to do research with an optometrist? I have a few ideas of projects or retrospective reviews that I want to start and I've recently been put in contact with an optometrist that is willing to work with me but I don't want to give the impression that I'm more interested in optometry than ophthalmology
 
@cubsrule4e hello again! Do you think it would work against me to do research with an optometrist? I have a few ideas of projects or retrospective reviews that I want to start and I've recently been put in contact with an optometrist that is willing to work with me but I don't want to give the impression that I'm more interested in optometry than ophthalmology

No, you simply say that thats the opportunity you got and seized upon it. You'll never be penalized for research, even if its in a different field. It may not get you any bonus points, especially these days when its becoming a necessity, so if an OD is your best shot at getting something started then go with it. Also, obviously try to make it ophtho related as possible versus something strictly optom related. Get as much of the medical side in there as you can.
 
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No, you simply say that thats the opportunity you got and seized upon it. You'll never be penalized for research, even if its in a different field. It may not get you any bonus points, especially these days when its becoming a necessity, so if an OD is your best shot at getting something started then go with it. Also, obviously try to make it ophtho related as possible versus something strictly optom related. Get as much of the medical side in there as you can.

Thank you!
 
As you mentioned, ophthalmology relies on long term care to generate your patient volume. How difficult is it to switch between jobs in different locations as an ophthalmologist that may require you to build up a patient base again?

On a related note, how much would you say geographic region of residency affects your eventual job?

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Not sure if this was asked before, but have you dealt with eye cancers/eye malignancies? I’m curious mainly because of an interest in oncology which intersects with a lot of fields.
 
Thanks for doing this!

1) Can you comment on job saturation in medium sized cities? Do you live in a big or small city?
2) What % of people in private practice end up becoming partners? Any stories of predatory docs just churning out associates?
3) What are the biggest downsides to the field?
4) How often do eye surgery complications occur due to surgery? How do you emotionally deal with bad outcomes?
5) To what degree do you attribute your salary to being business-savvy?
 
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As you mentioned, ophthalmology relies on long term care to generate your patient volume. How difficult is it to switch between jobs in different locations as an ophthalmologist that may require you to build up a patient base again?

On a related note, how much would you say geographic region of residency affects your eventual job?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Moving/switching jobs between established practices isnt nearly as difficult as it would be if you were starting your own. Most of the openings in these type of practices are because an existing doctor is retiring or leaving for another reason, which allows the new hire to literally step into their role in that practice and take over the existing patient base. I replaced a retiring doctor and my books were nearly full the day I started at my main location. My satellite clinic was quite different, as we had only been sending a doctor out there a few days a month, so that took about 2-3 years to get where my books were full every day. Sure you may lose some of the really loyal patients who refuse to see someone new, but the majority are there for their eye care by a good doctor and once you establish a few visits with your long term base theyll just see you as their new doctor. Also, if you have worked several years at a practice and are moving to a new practice that is out of your non compete zone but still the same general area, a lot of your patients will follow you to your new practice. This can be made difficult by the practice youre leaving not telling the patients where you have gone, but in these days a simple google search is pretty easy to do.

Geographic region of your training I dont think would have much to do with your eventual practice if Im reading your question correctly. If youre asking if a practice in NYC is going to discriminate because you trained in the south I dont think thats a serious issue if you are well qualified and filling a role that they need. The challenge may be adapting to different social norms and personalities if youre making a huge geographic change, but again, I dont think the average employee or patient is going to judge or discriminate over where your training was performed.
 
Not sure if this was asked before, but have you dealt with eye cancers/eye malignancies? I’m curious mainly because of an interest in oncology which intersects with a lot of fields.

Pretty rare but yes, I diagnosed a retinoblastoma in a kid before. Other cancers would be mainly iris and choroidal melanomas, or metastases from some other primary tumor. These are usually sent to university hospitals, especially the children who will get sent to St Jude.
 
Thanks for doing this!

1) Can you comment on job saturation in medium sized cities? Do you live in a big or small city?
2) What % of people in private practice end up becoming partners? Any stories of predatory docs just churning out associates?
3) What are the biggest downsides to the field?
4) How often do eye surgery complications occur due to surgery? How do you emotionally deal with bad outcomes?
5) To what degree do you attribute your salary to being business-savvy?

1) I am in Baton Rouge which is around 250K with a metro area of about 750K, so im not sure where your standards fall, but id consider that a medium sized city, with large being closer to the million+ range. There were no issues getting a job here, and there were several options that I ultimately had to choose from. Starting up a practice would be quite an uphill battle, with the larger established practices continuing to grow and expand. Going to the surrounding areas, like where my satellite clinic is, would be much more feasible as a start up location.

2) I honestly couldnt tell you that number, but that should definitely be on the table for whatever practice you decide to join. I have not heard those horror stories from anyone personally, and my practice treated me quite fairly, so that may be happening in the more saturated larger cutthroat areas where the older partners can get away with doing that because the prospective employees have less options and less bargaining ability.

3) Biggest downsides I may have mentioned previously, but other than paperwork and litigation (not specialty specific) its probably just dealing with certain patients. Ophtho has become a specialty that not only provides healthcare but lifestyle enhancement through specialized implants that people are paying a ton of money for. On the one hand its great, youre making more, and youre giving the patient unbelievable vision, but there are always going to be unhappy patients who are 20/20 and reading without glasses just because thats who they are. This kind of person can ruin your whole day in just a few minutes. Fortunately they are the minority. The other obvious downside being the encroachment of optometrists. I have commented in thread before that this is certainly something to consider and fight against, but I also dont think its as dire a situation as others who have also provided their opinion in this thread.

4) Complications are unfortunately a part of surgery, and will occur much more earlier in your career, and steadily decrease as you gain experience. The complication rate also depends on the difficulty of the cases you are performing. I do many more difficult cases like mature cataracts due to my satellite patient population than many people who do all "California cataracts" so my complication rate is going to be slightly higher. I used to be devastated when I had to send a patient to retina after a dropped nucleus but they can still turn out just fine - that is also something that comes with experience and learning the process of how to manage that patient. Other smaller complications like a tear in the capsule and anterior vitrectomy happen but become pretty routine to handle with enough experience and I dont worry about those at all anymore. Retrobulbar hemorrhage is another complication that can be devastating but this is pretty rare as surgery moves away from retrobulbar blocks and more towards all topical anesthesia.

5). I would not consider myself business-savvy at all, but this is where the partnership opportunity is a must. As long as youve got someone within the practice who IS business savvy, whether thats the doctors or the administrator, youre still going to reap the benefits once you reach partner status, which is really the key to the whole thing from the business/income end. Certainly though, the more you know, the better of you can probably make things if youre interested in being involved in those decisions.
 
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Pretty rare but yes, I diagnosed a retinoblastoma in a kid before. Other cancers would be mainly iris and choroidal melanomas, or metastases from some other primary tumor. These are usually sent to university hospitals, especially the children who will get sent to St Jude.

How often do you see endocrine related cases? I'm assuming you see ophtho cases of these conditions often (say routine vision checks for diabetes patients to assess/prevent diabetic retinopathy)? Do you see rarer cases like Wilson's disease and Kayser-Fleischer rings?

Also thoughts on squid eyes? :cyclops::peeking:
 
How often do you see endocrine related cases?

Similarly, I'd be curious to know how often you see rheum-related eye issues. Almost all of the rheum diseases seem to have some potential eye involvement or another, but I'm curious how often they actually pop up in clinic. Have you ever diagnosed a rheum disease based on ocular findings?
Thanks!
 
Similarly, I'd be curious to know how often you see rheum-related eye issues. Almost all of the rheum diseases seem to have some potential eye involvement or another, but I'm curious how often they actually pop up in clinic. Have you ever diagnosed a rheum disease based on ocular findings?
Thanks!

Uveitis specialists see a loooot of rheum
 
How far into seniority can ophthalmologists practice? Do you think the senior ophthalmologist can transition to a mostly medical practice in their later years (65+)? At what age do most retire?
 
How often do you see endocrine related cases? I'm assuming you see ophtho cases of these conditions often (say routine vision checks for diabetes patients to assess/prevent diabetic retinopathy)? Do you see rarer cases like Wilson's disease and Kayser-Fleischer rings?

Also thoughts on squid eyes? :cyclops::peeking:

Ok lawpy, something must be done about notifications. Im not getting any of these from this thread, and inquiring minds have questions that need answering!!!!

If youre categorizing diabetes as an endocrine case, then all day every day. Most common thing I evaluate in the clinic setting is diabetes and glaucoma.

Specifically multisystemic things (not just endocrine) like Wilsons disease, myotonic dystrophy, multiple sclerosis etc, are rare but always show up on a yearly basis. Looking for those "buzz word" items in all the ophtho text books like Kayser-Fleischer rings and Christmas Tree cataracts are definitely something you will see and have to know.

The most common non-routine, non-eye specific thing outside of diabetes related to the eyes that you will see is a manifestation of rheumatoid arthritis (in my experience).
 
Similarly, I'd be curious to know how often you see rheum-related eye issues. Almost all of the rheum diseases seem to have some potential eye involvement or another, but I'm curious how often they actually pop up in clinic. Have you ever diagnosed a rheum disease based on ocular findings?
Thanks!

As stated above, rheumatoid arthritis is probably the most common systemic non eye based disease that I deal with outside of diabetes. Chronic uveitis, uveitic cataract, scleritis/episcleritis that is in any way recalcitrant, pars planitis, retinal vasculitis - all automatic blood work for autoimmune conditions. Thats one of the great things that I really do enjoy about what I do. Someone may have been having problems for years because of an underlying autoimmune condition, whatever the symptoms (GI, neuro, MSK) and everyone treated acutely and hoped it would go away or punted to the other team. Then they present to me with an eye issue and its a fairly obvious situation, get them properly assessed, and referred to the appropriate specialist and all of the sudden things get much better for them. This is fairly routine. I would say 1-2 cases a month (which doesnt sound like a lot, but when your purpose is 99% vision/cataract/glaucoma/LASIK and then realize this patient had to come to the eye doctor to get their Crohn's disease diagnosed, its a very significant number).
 
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