opinions

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If it polluted the surrounding land and water, the farmer would have his brains (and business) fined out of him by the EPA to clean it up with haz mat teams over several months. NONE of it is allowed to get out.

Oh how I wish this were 100% true in practice. 🙁
I have manure constantly spread in fields all around my property and many of them are about ten feet from a creek. My family has tried to complain to authorities but turning a blind eye to the issue seems to be commonplace. It is not uncommon at all to have many of our smaller creeks and rivers coated with a thin film of disgustingess after a farmer spreads. Some are turned almost brown from all the runoff.
 
How dare you. I hear angels are raised in crowded angel pens. And they clip their wings.

Pass the syrup.

Angels we have boiled on high
Sweetly cooking o'er the flame
And my stomach doth reply
Grumbling in its joyous gain

Gloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorious ... is the crunchy halo....
Gloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorious ... is the crunchy halo....

This made me laugh. So hard.
 
Oh how I wish this were 100% true in practice. 🙁
I have manure constantly spread in fields all around my property and many of them are about ten feet from a creek. My family has tried to complain to authorities but turning a blind eye to the issue seems to be commonplace. It is not uncommon at all to have many of our smaller creeks and rivers coated with a thin film of disgustingess after a farmer spreads. Some are turned almost brown from all the runoff.
What I said is true for CAFOs, but no, it's not always enforced. Is the operation you're talking about a concentrated feeding operation? It may be more poorly regulated if it is not. That's something we CAN change, though--keep reporting it, write your senator, etc. It's important that farmers do what they should, just like anyone should report a slaughter plant processing downer cows, etc.
 
If it polluted the surrounding land and water, the farmer would have his brains (and business) fined out of him by the EPA to clean it up with haz mat teams over several months. NONE of it is allowed to get out. Any CAFO has to have proof that they not only have a spill-proof waste retention system, but that they have (I believe) 2 back-ups/spill-overs in case something were to happen to the original retention system. Many farmers are now growing algae and/or bacteria in their retention pools that consume much of the waste gases. Operations have a helluva time getting into areas because residents are (rightly) worried about smells, pests, and pollution. All operations, but ESPECIALLY CAFOs have to provide documentation of their plan to deal with all of these issues.

Please research moar.

I stand entirely corrected. There has never been an inadvertent spill or leak due to weather, countermeasure failure or negligence. That was sarcasm. I'm sorry.

The fact that the industry has regulation doesn't make it safe, any more than having a seat belt stops car crashes.

Those ponds, or lagoons, are associated with fish kills, resistant bacteria and the ever popular 'horrible smell.'

I'll ask again, do you seriously feel like **** ponds in the midwest, next to industrial slaughterhouses, is the best we can do in term of sustainability and public health?

answer the question moar.
 
What I said is true for CAFOs, but no, it's not always enforced. Is the operation you're talking about a concentrated feeding operation? It may be more poorly regulated if it is not. That's something we CAN change, though--keep reporting it, write your senator, etc. It's important that farmers do what they should, just like anyone should report a slaughter plant processing downer cows, etc.

I believe it is from a farmer a few miles away. I think he has like 2,000+ head of dairy cows. If I see any more of it happening this summer I will be sure to document it with pictures and dates. 👍
 
Those ponds, or lagoons, are associated with fish kills, resistant bacteria and the ever popular 'horrible smell.'

My mom knew a professional diver who had a farmer try to hire him to dive into his full manure pond to check something on the bottom.

No. Thank. You. I would rather be a line worker at the angel slaughterhouse.
 
My mom knew a professional diver who had a farmer try to hire him to dive into his full manure pond to check something on the bottom.

No. Thank. You. I would rather be a line worker at the angel slaughterhouse.

I need you guys to know that I had my facts wrong. In my rush to win the internet, I mistakenly stated that 'Everytime you eat a hamburger, an angel dies.'

After some additional research, it turns out that... before the angel dies, it has to strangle a kitten.

Just a clarification.
 
That's OK. There's kitten overpopulation any how and plus, who better to deliver you above than an angel? A tasty, zesty angel.


As per this:
I'll ask again, do you seriously feel like **** ponds in the midwest, next to industrial slaughterhouses, is the best we can do in term of sustainability and public health?

You will never, even in your beloved proposed agrarian only society, find ANYTHING running at 100% optimality. So no, it's not the best we can do in terms of sustainability and public health. Nothing ever will be until very far in the future.
 
I need you guys to know that I had my facts wrong. In my rush to win the internet, I mistakenly stated that 'Everytime you eat a hamburger, an angel dies.'

After some additional research, it turns out that... before the angel dies, it has to strangle a kitten.

Just a clarification.

I always picture angels having very delicate hands, so I bet that would be a long process. Long enough to force them to sing..

Angels we have boiled on high
Sweetly cooking o'er the flame
And my stomach doth reply
Grumbling in its joyous gain

Gloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorious ... is the crunchy halo....
Gloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorious ... is the crunchy halo....
 
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As per this:

You will never, even in your beloved proposed agrarian only society, find ANYTHING running at 100% optimality. So no, it's not the best we can do in terms of sustainability and public health. Nothing ever will be until very far in the future.

How would you ever make the logical leap that I'm proposing 100% sustainability and no diseases for anyone ever?

I'm saying we can do better, and less meat is the route to that.

I'm out of homework, so I'm going to bed.

I'll be back tomorrow to focus your rage, internet.
 
Not if they're weeping angels.

No, I can not in fact put together anything actually useful to contribute to this thread at this time. Please continue.
 
I'm saying we can do better, and less meat is the route to that.

Once again, just because we CAN do better doesn't mean we SHOULD do better. We could all do better for the environment by not driving around all day and instead bicycling everywhere, but it's not hard to see that's not entirely feasible.

Should we settle for mediocrity? Nope, but there's a certain point of diminishing returns on improvement.
 
Once again, just because we CAN do better doesn't mean we SHOULD do better. We could all do better for the environment by not driving around all day and instead bicycling everywhere, but it's not hard to see that's not entirely feasible.

Should we settle for mediocrity? Nope, but there's a certain point of diminishing returns on improvement.

Ok. We've settled this thread.

The final verdict:

Don't try.
 
Done!

Angel fries for everyone!


And there was much rejoicing! :soexcited:


Thanks to everyone involved. This was definitely one of the most interesting threads I have ever participated in.






p.s. we all know this thread isn't over, right? There is a whole population who has had the sense to go to bed and will read/comment in the morning. I am afraid we created a monster.
 
and delicious...

I probably shouldn't admit that this thread prompted me to invest in a nice, sumptuous package of bacon while grocery shopping tonight. 😀

They were fresh out of angel, and, well... bacon's an acceptable substitute for most anything in my book.
 
Buh? Since when does everyone's 'entitlement' to an opinion mean that one side can't be 'better' than the other?

No offense, but that sounds like po-mo nonsense. The fact is, some opinions are just plain inferior.

Or maybe I just misunderstood what you meant. 🙂

LetItSnow returns to his chair in the peanut gallery, snagging someone's popcorn on the way.

:laugh:

I brought up the positive health aspects of vegetarianism to contrast the 'severe nutritional deficiencies' you conjured out of thin air like a wizard.

:laugh:

.

I'm going to go finish eating my jerky, so I can turn into a T. Rex.

:laugh:

I can't speak for everyone here, but I don't think there is anything wrong with someone making the personal decision not to eat meat. It was the blanket statements about meat being completely unnecessary for anyone that I took exception to. I think that's overly simplistic. (Sumstorm did a pretty good job of summing up my thoughts on the matter.)

All in all, as long as nobody's attempting to legislate my diet (or repeatedly hassling me about my choices), it's all good. Same goes for religious beliefs. As long as there's no attempt to impose them on me, I don't care what somebody else's religious views are. I have friends and family of all stripes.

I apologize if my posts have been perceived as disrespectful. They weren't intended as such. I certainly don't think someone with your views would be incapable of functioning in the profession. I guess what it comes down to for me is that I don't really understand the interest in becoming a companion animal veterinarian when one is morally opposed to the keeping of companion animals. I don't see how one can reconcile the two.

To me, it feels a bit like (again, not trying to be disrespectful here) being opposed to child labor and making the decision to oversee the assembly line in a sweatshop because you feel for the kids and want to help them. If keeping pets is morally wrong, is choosing a profession in which you are complicit in enabling others to do so truly "helpful"?

I agree with the above statements in bold whole heartedly! Well said CT.
 
Government funded zoos are more in it for the profit then any other zoo. They are funded as an INVESTMENT. They hope that the revenue generated through tourist attraction will eventually outweigh the investment. They are not funded to save the animals. If someone was not expecting there to be a profit, there would be no zoos. If they were in it to save endangered species there would be no common species.

I worked at a rescue for a while ( I am not going to say which one) but we had over 200 residents that could not be released back into the wild. Of these residents a enormous amount of the animals came from zoos. The people running the place even said it was sad because there was no paper work or anything on them- the zoos just didn't want them and dropped them off.

Zoos are in it for the money. The animals and the endangered breeding are second.

Some zoos are in it for the money - they are not typically AZA zoos, however. Some zoos don't even charge admission. Many AZA zoos are non-profit (and therefore are not an investment). Most AZA zoos would not be able to survive on merchandise and admission alone and need donations to make up the difference. One of the reasons zoos won't accept certain animals is because they have to be able to use them in a breeding program if necessary. Therefore, they can't take in certain animals that come from rescues unless they are spayed/neutered and they must be committed to using that space until that animal dies. This is usually the case with large cats. Other animals taken in at zoos include fish and wildlife confiscations from people (usually reptiles for this).

I know this after having done research and being an extern at a zoo where I was able to ask questions of the higher-ups in that zoo.
 
Government funded zoos are more in it for the profit then any other zoo. They are funded as an INVESTMENT. They hope that the revenue generated through tourist attraction will eventually outweigh the investment. They are not funded to save the animals. If someone was not expecting there to be a profit, there would be no zoos. If they were in it to save endangered species there would be no common species.

I worked at a rescue for a while ( I am not going to say which one) but we had over 200 residents that could not be released back into the wild. Of these residents a enormous amount of the animals came from zoos. The people running the place even said it was sad because there was no paper work or anything on them- the zoos just didn't want them and dropped them off.

Zoos are in it for the money. The animals and the endangered breeding are second.

oh, yes, you KNOW they were from Zoos, but you KNOW that despite there being no paperwork and they were dropped off. Kind of like I KNOW you KNOW what your talking about because you typed it on a forum. Animals is zoos are actually tracked through SSPs. If a zoo dumped one at a park, they would still have to report what happened to that animal to the tracking systems. Any zoo that had a number of animals disappear or die would not be able to exchange animals with other zoos (which is pretty important for a variety of reasons, including generating public interest and breeding.) National zoo went under this scrutiny about a decade ago when several animals (not big ticket animals either) died in a relatively short period of time.

Zoo's just don't generate the money you apparently think they do. However, since you are very interested in proving your point, perhaps you should take the time to look over the books of several zoos, most are public record. I'd like to see the CPA analysis. Zoos are really bad investments.

I do agree that part of the reason government's subsidize them is to use them as an attraction, however, how many people really plan an entire trip to a city for the sole purpose of going to a zoo? It's not that common, and the majority of the revenue for zoos (80+% last time I had reason to look it up) come from a 45 mile radius. The lack of interest in zoos as tourist attractions is part of the reason many local and regional zoos are closing down.

I never said their emphasis was solely on conservation breeding. I believe it is generally a 3 pronged approach (but what would I know, I mean, I only sit through the seminars where we discuss all this stuff for days on end) of education-conservation/research-public use. Many zoos have a lot of other areas to worry about like business associations, consultation, community development programs, etc.

There are a lot of reasons for having common species. We moved common species in to fill the spaces of animals on loan. We also felt that many common species are poorly understood and that we protect species by inspiring protection starting at a local level. Black rat snakes are a great example of this; they do a lot of good, even help slow disease progression, but in many areas (particularly areas with venemous snakes) they are killed without question. We have the black snakes in the zoo so that we can educate folks about why these snakes are valuable and generate discussions about why venemous snakes are less dangerous if they are left alone since most bites occur when someone is trying to kill them (and I'd bite too if someone was trying to kill me.)

We also took animals from wildlife rehab centers that were non-releasable. An animal that can't go back into the wild and be productive is a burden on rehab centers and if it can't generate young, it is a burden on the environment and can actually damage reproduction programs for protected wildlife. Every bird of prey we had was non-releasable. 95% of our animals were captive born, and 45% were in breeding programs. We had an aged population, so nearly a third of ours were too old for reproduction. We also worked with researchers in the field and in medicine. We weren't even one of the top zoos, which do some really amazing things.

Much of what we know about saving animals in the field (including the progression of pathogenic distemper in big cats) came from studies in zoos. And I'd much rather a zoo be doing this (where the public can have a definitive impact) than a private breeder. Zoos aren't perfect...then again, neither are vets or vet students or pre-vet students or vegetarians or vegans. We all have room to improve, but I can flat out say without any hesitation that you are wrong on zoos being profit centers. I wish they were, since that is an area I would actually like to work in, but the pay is too low.
 
For one- you can say that all zoos are in it for the education. I am sorry but no. All I can see through zoos is how much profit they can make out of the animals. If there was no profit there would be no zoo. There may be specific people in working for the zoos that are interested in conservation but most of the higher ups, they are interested in money.

That's a little bit unfair. Any institution has to have some kind of revenue in order to not shut down. If they can't get it all from the government, then they have to get it from profit. The zoo could have a noble conservation goal, but without money that is not going to happen.

That applies to us on some level as well: if you haven't heard a variation of "you veterinarians are just in it for the money!" from an upset client yet, you most likely will at some point. Now, we know that's not true, but if we gave our services away, how long do you think the clinic would stay open? How could we support ourselves and pay for the education that allows us to be here treating pets? It's kind of the same principle.
 
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Holy Crow!!! 😱 Amazing what can happen in a day! GREAT thread, all!

In regards to some of these posts on welfare and what is proper care for research, educational, food animals, etc, I think that people who are looking to make careers in the veterinary field should be careful of the level of anthropomorphism that they allow. The need for things like "love" are human needs, not animal needs. The idea of being completely fulfilled is also a human concept. Anthropomorphic tendencies can jade one's thinking: the puppy is not being spiteful, it is repeating a learned behavior. The cow doesn't know it is going to slaughter b/c it watched a "friend" disappear yesterday, most likely novel stimuli elicited a fear response. When looking to increase animal welfare, we should seek to address abnormal behaviors created by living conditions, not behaviors that we view as pitiful or unhappy - in the long run that will create much better environments based on the science of the actual animal and not our own feelings.

In the veterinary field, compassion is necessary - meaning one should feel badly for animals that are treated poorly or animals that are in pain. But on the other hand anthropomorphism can be detrimental to one's psyche and ultimately it is an incorrect way of addressing the behaviors of animals (see Houpt, Overall, Beaver, Dunbar and even Grandin for references on the folly of anthropomorphism).

When I use the term 'love' in regard to animals, I use it as an umbrella term for compassion, care and concern. Non-human animals are more than capable of feeling emotion. Full blow love as we humans perceive it? Probably not. However, they feel pain, fear and joy. I would much rather have research dogs that are willing to come forward and play rather than crouch in the back of their pens in fear.

Coming 'clean' I'm going to say that I have performed hundreds of terminal procedures and know for certain that the animals utilized have no idea what is about to happen. They know not of what awaits them, but they do know that something is 'up'... I'm approaching them with a needle, taking them to a cold table, and subjecting them to a strange new environment containing people, equipment, smells and noises of which they know nothing. Additionally, species such as monkeys will notice that the population around them is thinning... They recognize that those who went out the door aren't coming back and the hierarchy begins to change (sometimes not for the better). Thus, I do everything in my power to ensure that the animals I work with feel 'safe' with me and have as sense of trust that I will not hurt them intentionally.

Also, I'm well aware that I anthropomorphize from time to time - it's a coping mechanism.... I will say aloud to the animal that 'I'm sorry' prior to giving them injections; and prior to when I push the euthanasia solution I will stroke the animal and explain that they are going to a better place where they will be able to 'play' forever. Yes, I believe that animals go to heaven.

And speaking of heaven...

How dare you. I hear angels are raised in crowded angel pens. And they clip their wings.

Pass the syrup.

Angels we have boiled on high
Sweetly cooking o'er the flame
And my stomach doth reply
Grumbling in its joyous gain

Gloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorious ... is the crunchy halo....
Gloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorious ... is the crunchy halo....

😆😆😆😆


Done!

Angel fries for everyone!

If I consume them with ketchup is it considered sacrilegious??
 
Oh, man! I just had vegetarian fake bacon for breakfast. Does that mean a fake angel with a plastic halo dies after strangling a carrot?
 
I would like to personally thank each and every one of you for an hour of lost productivity at work this morning (and the fact that I may have to purchase some form of Depends to continue on reading to prevent from making a scene when I pee myself from laughter....).
 
Oh, man! I just had vegetarian fake bacon for breakfast. Does that mean a fake angel with a plastic halo dies after strangling a carrot?

I skimmed this 3 times before my mind unmixed the letters.

For some reason the only word I could see was 'Falcon,' and couldn't figure out how you obtained falcon meat for your breakfast.
 
For the OP,

I was contemplating this a bit more. At least here, other students aren't likely to take issues with what you believe the majority of the time, as long as you don't try to shove it down their throats (ie not criticize their food choices, pet choices, etc.) There is an attitude of live and let live among the student body (though occasional clashes do happen.) I am probably mid-range in terms of our student body. If we have any animal rights individuals currently in our class, they don't stand out. We do have a pretty hefty food animal population in our class.

On the other hand, I have seen professors push the envelope. We have a working farm on campus, and I have had heated debates with some professors over some issues. I have also witnessed professors have arguments with each other over culling, breeding selection, etc. I have watched professors make folks defend their position, and point out inaccuracies in their statements (and been in the spotlight for that.)

Among our staff and faculty, I can't actually point out anyone and say 'they are for animal rights' but I feel the vast majority of them are strong proponents of animal welfare. If you are going to say 'veal calves are wrong' or 'debudding is cruel' or 'eating meat is wrong', at least here, you'd better be ready to defend that argument, and explain all the angles of it and know what the counterarguments are. Many of my professors consider me extremly to the left on animal welfare, many of my fellow students seem me as shifted pretty far to the right. I've had some success participating in some changes that I think are valuable. I've had some failures as well (currently our research pigs get less quality of care, in my opinion, than our farm pigs, which saddens me. )
 
All of them?

20080229143718.png

🤣

When 'excessive' consumption is the societal norm, it's not all that excessive anymore. And, after some reading, I find it interesting that the cut off for increasing the risk of heart disease is anything more than 9 servings per week. Or unhealthy triglyceride levels start kicking in after 1.5 servings per week.

Equally, what is the 'recommended' level of meat consumption? I feel like you're getting your baseline consumption numbers from the Hamburglar.

Lets look at it from a cost/benefit perspective.

What are the actual benefits, aside from personal preference?

And we've already listed the costs.

What? no ridiculous(but funny) comment at the end of this!:meanie:

For the record if I ever ate meat the first things I would eat would be bacon and chicken wings. They are really the only thing that I feel I miss out on and actually makes my mouth water...


mmmm.... bacon....

really?! that is the one you need to watch out for the most because MOST ppl like to eat it crispy. When bacon is cooked to crispy deliciousness, it causes nitrosamines to form which are a carcinagen. That is why they add Vit. C to it when curing....to counter act the amount that forms while cooking it to a crisp! Just thought I would throw in that fact....not that it will keep ME from eating bacon...nomnomnom😀
 
🤣
When bacon is cooked to crispy deliciousness, it causes nitrosamines to form which are a carcinagen. That is why they add Vit. C to it when curing....to counter act the amount that forms while cooking it to a crisp! Just thought I would throw in that fact....not that it will keep ME from eating bacon...nomnomnom😀

Good thing I like my bacon floppy. 😀

Must utilize this information the next time friends and family complain about my refusal to burn the bacon. :laugh:
 
Your question about which type of meat i'm talking about?

All of them.

Do we have any livestock people in the room that can talk a bit about the hormones they use to bulk up cows and chickens in factory farms?

Why don't you? Are you referring to an implant?

Most 'factory farms' aren't bulking up cows, though-- mostly steers and heifers. 😉


Ok I will argue on the hormone topic.....not that im arguing with anyone in particular, but the hormones are by implant. What does this mean? Well, if we eat the meat that contain these hormones it will do absolutely nothing to us because they are completely destroyed by the digestive tract. That is why they implant them in animals instead of just feeding it to them. Feeding gallons of the stuff to them would do nothing for them either.

Fwoow....glad to get that out there😎
 
Ok I will argue on the hormone topic.....not that im arguing with anyone in particular, but the hormones are by implant. What does this mean? Well, if we eat the meat that contain these hormones it will do absolutely nothing to us because they are completely destroyed by the digestive tract. That is why they implant them in animals instead of just feeding it to them. Feeding gallons of the stuff to them would do nothing for them either.

Fwoow....glad to get that out there😎

I'm trying to work in some extra hormone research this afternoon, now.

How about antibiotics?

(This isn't a pointed question, I'm genuinely just curious.)

And for everyone, how do you view the public perception that a lot of that industrially produced meat is tainted with various chemical compounds, or manipulated in a way that makes it unhealthy?

(Again, just interested in the information. I'm all argued out.)
 
I think that a lot of public perception about things like genetically modified food (plant or animal) or hormones stems from a pervasive societal distrust of science and an embracing of ignorance.

IMO this larger issue is not only the fault of individuals on the non-scientific side (generally right-wing religious but there are definitely those on the left who share these views, particularly when it involves GMO produce) but of many scientists who are ineffective at communicating ideas with the public in easily understood terms or who just simply refuse to try. Personally I'm not immune to this. I know a lot of people who have a pretty strong distrust of all things "genetically modified" as if that means that we have taken some novel space DNA bases infused with witchcraft and rat poison and inserted them into some poor hapless baby plants and calves for the purpose of infecting the entire population with some peer-reviewed PCR brain disease or something. These are otherwise reasonable people, yet I just don't feel like trying to discuss the issue with them because well, I guess I don't have a good sense of how to talk to lay people about genetics and the methods that are used in such, and I'm also not the most patient person in the world and get really irritated when I have to re-state my points more than once. So there's this disconnect in the population, and the majority happens to be in the camp that would rather remain ignorant and believe what they see on Oprah or whatever.
 
I think that a lot of public perception about things like genetically modified food (plant or animal) or hormones stems from a pervasive societal distrust of science and an embracing of ignorance.

sensationalist press, I hate it
 
I'm trying to work in some extra hormone research this afternoon, now.

How about antibiotics?

(This isn't a pointed question, I'm genuinely just curious.)

And for everyone, how do you view the public perception that a lot of that industrially produced meat is tainted with various chemical compounds, or manipulated in a way that makes it unhealthy?

(Again, just interested in the information. I'm all argued out.)

If you are genuinely curious, I will explain what I can.

Antibiotics have a "withholding time", generally. I work in dairy, rather than in beef, so I don't know the specifics of animals destined for slaughter. As a general rule, however, you can't use most products within a certain time of the animal or its products are being consumed.

For instance, all intramammary antibiotics used to treat mastitis have a withholding time, which means you can't milk the cow into the bulk tank and sell the milk. Residue tests are performed, and if you're caught dumping penicillins or other stuff into your tank, you're in big bunny trouble. So, generally, you're not drinking a lot of antibiotics.

Some systemic antibiotics, like Excede, can be given and the cow can continue to be milked, because the antibiotic does not cross the blood/milk barrier. This is not true for things like penicillin.

Generally, I would be less concerned about the antibiotics and hormones in dairy cattle than say, beefies (I say this mostly because I'm more comfortable with what I know about). The hormones given to dairy cows CAN include bST and that sort of thing that people get upset about, but the majority are for reproductive use (progesterone, prostaglandin, GnRH, etc), and aren't much concern for human consumption. Pregnant cows (which are most lactating cows) are dumping progesterone into the milk on a regular basis, so whether you are drinking the milk of Bessie the Sacred Perfect Organic Cow or cow #5667 down at Miller's farm, there's not a huge difference on that front.

To throw in a sad story: I work in laboratory that does research with dairies/milk. One of our grad students did a farm visit for her project and collected milk samples/data. The farmer called later asking if we still had the milk samples and if we tested them for antibiotics. Why? Someone had been pissed at him, and walked over to his bulk tank and dumped a bunch of antibiotics into it (This would be bad regardless of if he was organic), and he was trying to narrow the time of when it had happened. Pretty nasty thing to do.
 
frankenfoods.jpg


FRAAAANKKKEEENFOOOODDDSSSSSS!
(I am contributing nothing important.)

Are you kidding me? That food is amazing, and is one of the best things I've seen on this thread. Don't underestimate your importance!
 
I think that a lot of public perception about things like genetically modified food (plant or animal) or hormones stems from a pervasive societal distrust of science and an embracing of ignorance.

Hrm, what's that quote again?

Here we go:
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
 
I just realized that we are not on the same topic as what was started hehe, but I kinda like a thread that just flows where it flows........ya know😎
 
I just realized that we are not on the same topic as what was started hehe, but I kinda like a thread that just flows where it flows........ya know😎

Hey, a thread titled simply "opinions" leaves the door open for just about anything...
 
to the OP,
I can see where your beliefs would get in the way of your profession. I'm not condemning anyone, but thats where my beliefs are a benefit. I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.
 
I give that troll a 3/10 - do your research a little better before the next time you try and realize that there's not enough money in vet med to go into it for that reason. It was a dead giveaway. Better luck next time. 🙁
 
to the OP,
I can see where your beliefs would get in the way of your profession. I'm not condemning anyone, but thats where my beliefs are a benefit. I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.


So you beat your dog to prove a point? That makes no sense at all. You are a cruel person.
 
I give that troll a 3/10 - do your research a little better before the next time you try and realize that there's not enough money in vet med to go into it for that reason. It was a dead giveaway. Better luck next time. 🙁

Troll? not sure of the terminology, but I just got into veterinary school and i've always been around this profession. My father is a vet, and my mother is a nurse( similar - medical). We were never starving, and coming where I'm from, it sure beats being a lumberjack or working at the local Mcdonalds. My dad makes over $120K a year, and maybe if you live in Northern Illinois that's not much, but with my cost of living its definitely a comfortable amount.
 
to the OP,
I can see where your beliefs would get in the way of your profession. I'm not condemning anyone, but thats where my beliefs are a benefit. I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.

:troll:
 
to the OP,
I can see where your beliefs would get in the way of your profession. I'm not condemning anyone, but thats where my beliefs are a benefit. I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.

failuredemotivationalposter.jpg
 
to the OP,
I can see where your beliefs would get in the way of your profession. I'm not condemning anyone, but thats where my beliefs are a benefit. I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.

Yea.. how does being atheist relate to beating your dog? Atheism does not equal absence of morals/no problems with animal cruelty. Good luck in "vet school"--hope it teaches you something other than the ignorance you've been taught.
 
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