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So you beat your dog to prove a point? That makes no sense at all. You are a cruel person.

Ok, I admit I phrased it oddly. By "prove a point" I meant in a disciplinary fashion. I don't kick her in the ribs while she's sleeping. But if she misbehaves, she knows it. Sort of a Pavlovian conditioning exercise. My other dog recognized when I raised my hand that he was in trouble. Simple as that.
 
to the OP,
I can see where your beliefs would get in the way of your profession. I'm not condemning anyone, but thats where my beliefs are a benefit. I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.

Sorry WEN and others, but I have to...

I'm shocked and simply cannot believe that I'm reading this on a pre-veterinary forum... Religious beliefs have nothing to do with this. I know several atheists; and not a single one believes that it's 'right' to beat an animal. Nor do I think that any of them would be pleased to know that your dogs run from you in fear every time you raise your hand. I can understand the occasional swat to stop an unwanted behavior such as biting, etc... But one should NEVER beat an animal to prove a point. And sorry, but hitting an animal has nothing to do with Pavlovian theory. Pavlovian theory would be to make a loud sharp noise on an inanimate object when an unwanted behavior is observed. Hitting an animal (or child for that matter) is punishment, plain and simple.

I am very disappointed that you have been granted the opportunity to serve in the veterinary profession; but will hope that your time in school helps you to see things differently.
 
Sorry WEN and others, but I have to...

I'm shocked and simply cannot believe that I'm reading this on a pre-veterinary forum... Religious beliefs have nothing to do with this. I know several atheists; and not a single one believes that it's 'right' to beat an animal. Nor do I think that any of them would be pleased to know that your dogs run from you in fear every time you raise your hand. I can understand the occasional swat to stop an unwanted behavior such as biting, etc... But one should NEVER beat an animal to prove a point. And sorry, but hitting an animal has nothing to do with Pavlovian theory. Pavlovian theory would be to make a loud sharp noise on an inanimate object when an unwanted behavior is observed. Hitting an animal (or child for that matter) is punishment, plain and simple.

I am very disappointed that you have been granted the opportunity to serve in the veterinary profession; but will hope that your time in school helps you to see things differently.

Well put, LMMS.
 
to the OP,
I can see where your beliefs would get in the way of your profession. I'm not condemning anyone, but thats where my beliefs are a benefit. I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.


My mind is about to explode from all the utter bull**** in this post.

I am atheist. You are not. You are just a very sad, pathetic individual. I could go on and on about your views of atheism are incorrect, but I would rather strangle an angel that is strangling a kitten than converse with you any longer.

I hope I never have the absolute misfortune of meeting you in real life and I wold rather butcher a unicorn with a butter-knife than let you touch any of my animals.
 
I just have to echo morals and ethics =/= religion.

I'm not going to get into a religious argument here, because IMO this actually has nothing to do with religion. All the athiests I've ever known would not be happy if someone insinuated that they did not have any morals (or feelings!) just because they didn't believe in souls.

I mean this with absolutely no sarcasm - try to keep an open mind in Vet School. You may learn something that challenges your beliefs, like animals DO have feelings (not exactly like ours necessarily) or that negative reinforcement is NOT the best way to successfully train an animal.
 
IMO this actually has nothing to do with religion. All the athiests I've ever known would not be happy if someone insinuated that they did not have any morals (or feelings!) just because they didn't believe in souls.

👍
 
I think that Animal Nature is TRYING to start a fight with that post. I think he/she knew everyone would:scared: and:wow:.
 
I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.

You give atheists a bad name.

Anyhow, 3 posts? Completely coming out of no where with an incendiary response? Obvious troll is obvious.
 
Animal Nature =



59217795troll-jan-brett-jpg.jpg





Nevermind. This troll is awesome.
mobile_troll.htm
 
Generally, I would be less concerned about the antibiotics and hormones in dairy cattle than say, beefies (I say this mostly because I'm more comfortable with what I know about). The hormones given to dairy cows CAN include bST and that sort of thing that people get upset about, but the majority are for reproductive use (progesterone, prostaglandin, GnRH, etc), and aren't much concern for human consumption. Pregnant cows (which are most lactating cows) are dumping progesterone into the milk on a regular basis, so whether you are drinking the milk of Bessie the Sacred Perfect Organic Cow or cow #5667 down at Miller's farm, there's not a huge difference on that front.

In addition, the infamous rgBH is not even recognized by the body as a hormone, and is broken down in the digestive tract 😉

I remember a while ago, in order to prove that GMOs will not hurt you, scientists fluorescently tagged the recombinant DNA in a food sample, had people eat it, and then looked for the tag in the people's DNA (you know, people thinking omg, its a mutant, if we eat it, it will mutate us!!!!). Of course, they found nothing. The digestion process breaks everything down.

I wish people would stop throwing around the factory farm tagline.....ugh. What exactly *is* a "factory farm"? For example, I myself just recently got out of an arguement with someone (a young bio major) who insisted modern beef cattle spent their whole lives in "factory farm" feedlots. I had to explain cow-calf operations, grower operations, how most of their life was actually pastured and free-range, with only a small part in feedlots, that there are specifically trained feedlot veterinarians to ensure the spread of disease ie kept to a minimum, etc.

The problem is, people only want to see the bad stuff - because its sensationalist, and it is easy to form an opinion about. But that is NOT the vast majority of farms, by ANY means.

And breenie explained withholding perfectly.

I do, however, have some grave issues with modern poultry operation. Beef, dairy, and pork - not nearly so much. Of course, things could be better, but they aren't nearly what sensationalism has mislabeled them as.
 
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So I did not know what trolling was, for sure had to look it up... "animal nature" is so a troller.

Who honestly beats there animal because the dog misbehaved? I bet this dude has some seriously aggressive dogs. I know I would bite someone who beat me 😀
 
Wait, wait....does this mean it's ok for me to hit fourth years if they misbehave? Sweet! :laugh:

I mean, you know, sometimes I need to prove a point too. "OMG, I TOLD YOU A MILLION TIMES TO CHECK BILE DUCT PATENCY BEFORE YOU CUT THE LIVER OFF!!" *SMACKSMACK* :diebanana:
 
Wait, wait....does this mean it's ok for me to hit fourth years if they misbehave? Sweet! :laugh:

I mean, you know, sometimes I need to prove a point too. "OMG, I TOLD YOU A MILLION TIMES TO CHECK BILE DUCT PATENCY BEFORE YOU CUT THE LIVER OFF!!" *SMACKSMACK* :diebanana:

Good thing I appropriately explained withholding! :whistle:
 
Haha I was picturing poprocks.

It's okay. I grew up saying "pop" but have lived in a place for the past 5 years where everyone says "soda" (and have even had people not know what pop is so I have converted to saying soda around the locals, so sometimes I forget about pop). At first I thought of cranberries popping out of a nose. That would be painful!
 
Funny, I say soda (I'm from the south) and my boyfriend says pop (he's from the Midwest). To me, a pop = lollipop, to which he then replies "No, no, that's a sucker."

Language can be so amusingly regional 😉
 
It's just 'coke' down here. "Hey you wanna coke?" "Yah sure" "What kind? We got coke, pepsi, and DP."

Sometimes 'drink' in general is preferred.
 
It's just 'coke' down here. "Hey you wanna coke?" "Yah sure" "What kind? We got coke, pepsi, and DP."

Sometimes 'drink' in general is preferred.

If someone asks me if I want a 'drink' up here in MN, I assume they mean alcohol.

Of course, that may be because I know that they know me. 🙂
 
It's just 'coke' down here. "Hey you wanna coke?" "Yah sure" "What kind? We got coke, pepsi, and DP."

Sometimes 'drink' in general is preferred.

Yup, I have been learning that. In Aggieland and beyond, it seems everything is "Coke"

And the DP (and DDP) thing is funny - I have even started calling it that. Seems like every city/state has its own drink of choice. It was Mountain Dew back in VA. Get me some Dee Dee Pee!
 
Not IMO, and another thing is that avoiding saturated fats and cholesterol isn't necessarily going to protect anybody from obesity or associated problems - excess carbohydrates are also stored as fat as we all know (promoting fat storage along the way), and certainly play a role in insulin resistance and Type II diabetes development.

To qualify your statement: Dietary carbohydrate is looking to be THE prime factor in leading to Type 2 Diabetes and its precursor 'Metabolic Syndrome.'


Other aspects of our Standard American Diet (SAD) or Conventional Wisdom (CW) have teamed up to contribute to our obesity/cancer/poor health epidemic, too: Unnatural PUFAs (coupled with an overall excess of Omega 6 Fatty Acids in our diet relative to Omega 3's), factory-farmed animal products, GMOs, processed foods, grains (esp. refined), etc..

It turns out that what is old is new... and probably going to be here to stay--thankfully. If only we can get the government and politicians out of the business of making 'dietary recommendations.'
 
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When I was growing up we called it "soda-pop" my friends stare at me oddly when I forget to use one word or the other now. 🙄
 
Huge sections of the eastern world would probably disagree with this. Outside of the industrialized world meat consumption is often a luxury, not a standard. India and China also have religious vegetarian subsets of their population which are larger than the entire American population.

I would probably not compare modern diets to one another. Look further back at our ancestry and see what humans ate (physical anthropologists and archaeologists know a lot about that--biochemists and geneticists can speculate, too, given the biochemical pathways we have developed or foregone through our evolutionary history.). The neolithic/agricultural revolution has had an enormous impact on human civilizations across the globe (even prior to more recent globalization). Eastern cultures have been affected, too... we are all now children of the Neolithic Revolution.

What is more telling is when you look at traditional hunter gatherers and examine their eating habits and health. There is some variation in traditional diet--yes--but consider what has been available (versus what had not been) to our ancestors over hundreds of thousands of years--millions, even. I can tell you that Morningstar Farms Faux-meat Sausage patties were not! Nor was Rockstar or Earth Balance blended oil spread.

Subbing meat out of a diet is probably one of the cheapest and easiest ways to improve your health. High cholesterol, blood pressure, obesity, heart disease and various cancers are all linked to regular meat consumption.

But, yeah. Humans don't need meat at all, and are probably worse off with it in the standard diet.
I would argue that the science is actually not there to support your strong statement, at least not when you look at consumption of 100% pasture-raised meats (animals raised in ways that are in harmony with their biology and natural history). I do agree with you--if I read you right--that 'standard diet' meat (which in my mind = feedlot/industrial-farming meat--a recent offering) might not be so beneficial. I wouldn't venture so far to say that we would be better off to not eat any meat if conventionally-raised meat were the only option, but avoided when given a choice?--yeah.

If you raise an animal on poor-quality food (that the creature is not even able to properly digest, leading to disease), in crowded and stressful/inhumane/unnatural conditions, (and add pharmaceuticals on top of it) you will be getting a product that is *chemically* distinct from the meat of a naturally-raised (ie; on the land) animal. It's only a short leap to surmise that our bodies will respond to this chemically distinct type of meat in a different way than it does to meat that is raised on pasture. It's pretty much all chemistry in your GI track. Consider that feedlot meat, 'modern meat,' was born of the 19th century. That's not a very long time that humans have consumed this very novel product. 🙄

There have been people over the past century who have raised concerns about modern agriculture/nutrition/declining health, but the science is only now really emerging to support their claims. Will the government ever take heed? Eventually, sure. But40+ years of active campaigning of the food pyramid and nutritional guidelines, as well as lobbying by the giant food and ag. interests has unfortunately led to enormous momentum.

Anyways, please, everyone, be a skeptic and question things. We are fortunate in that there is plenty of information out there now. Use your knowledge of biochemistry, biology, statistics and study-design, and evolution to help you as you do your own research. Use your gut--literally--and figuratively--to help you weigh the contradictory claims out there.

Since when did humans spend so much of their time and brain power figuring out what to eat and what not to eat? That is certainly a new thing. It really isn't that hard. We humans have made it hard.
 
I love this thread!

Just dropped by to announce that I ate hot dogs (read: ground up angel hearts, cupid wings, and centaur loins in a unicorn gut casing) for dinner and, therefore, win the thread. But then I read Animal Nature's posts and realized I had been bested.

That b*tch.

Continue on, friends!
 
Just dropped by to announce that I ate hot dogs (read: ground up angel hearts, cupid wings, and centaur loins in a unicorn gut casing) for dinner and, therefore, win the thread. But then I read Animal Nature's posts and realized I had been bested.

You have a supply of centaur lions?! Jealous!
 
WOW. This thread has completely gone off the deep end..:wtf:
I'm starting to wonder if people on this forum are really interested in veterninary medicine, or if they are just bored hijackers trying to get reactions from people. I can't figure it out. :annoyed:

P.S. Animal abusers blow!:boom:
 
WOW. This thread has completely gone off the deep end..:wtf:
I'm starting to wonder if people on this forum are really interested in veterninary medicine, or if they are just bored hijackers trying to get reactions from people. I can't figure it out. :annoyed:

I feel like the topic burnt out long ago and that the "bored hijackers" were trying to lighten the mood after the types of threads seen lately. Lighthearted comments =/= uninterested in the profession.
 
You know, I was just saying in my last post that it isn't worth it to respond to some of the people on this thread because they are probably just looking to get reactions from people. Ha! Well, I finally got suckered into responding to one of these ridiculous posts. Okay, well whether it is for real or not, here's my rant.

Wait! Insert ridiculous quote...

to the OP,
I can see where your beliefs would get in the way of your profession. I'm not condemning anyone, but thats where my beliefs are a benefit. I am an atheist, and have been for several years. If you, like me, don't believe that animals or people have "souls", then they don't have feelings either. When my dog is bad, i hit her. She isn't injured, and she gets over it the next time i feed her. Sometimes, I beat her to prove a point. Dogs, like children, can learn from negative experiences. It helps in this profession. I went into this field for the money, I'll be honest. I don't let morals or gods cloud my judgement. I see a sick animal, i heal it, i get paid. Clear cut.

Okay, my two cents...

Well, Animal Nature, I pray for your pet (poor thing) and all the other animals you will treat (or have already)one day. It is beyond me how someone like yourself (with little to no compassion for animals) can put themselves through four years of vet school for merely a paycheck? If money really is that important to you, couldn't you have gone to school to be a proctologist or something, and left the poor animals out of it?

Oh wait, now I get it! Your dad's a vet, which means that one day you may take over the family practice or something. That's why you wanted to be a vet, right? Gosh, I feel so darn silly. :meanie: I should have known that! Now I want to cry...:cry:


I totally went against my own advice and responded to one of these posts...damn it!
 
A nose, everyone's got one.

Sorry, I'm not good at analogies.
 
OH, I thought nyanko was starting a new topic and we had to come up with other clever sayings. haha Oh well I like the old one just the same.

I like this opinion thread and getting off topic is just a way to move to something more fun/interesting.

So....What does everyone think the best place to spend spring break is?
 
Hmm... My favorite so far: Disney World. Vegas was okay too 😉

I agree Disney World is good, but you need more than one week!😀 But in Vegas you only need one night!
 
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