Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery (OMS)

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Thanks guys. That link was really helpful.

ULTRON
Members don't see this ad.
 
After the match has released all the names, the aaoms usually lists the schools which have open positions for the post match. I haven't met any body so far who has been accepted through post match But I would expect it to be less competitive. If you heard of any post match experiences please do share them
:)
 
In response to DevilDoc--

Case Western has a 5 year OMS residency that still includes 1 year of Gen Surg and an MD. Univ. Nebraska just recently switched to the same type of program in 2003-- 5 yr, Gen Surg, and MD.

As far as post match spots go, a senior from last year's class interviewed at UT Houston, USC, and Univ. Maryland, didn't match, then 1 week after the match USC called him because the person they matched with bailed on them. He's now in LA and loving it. His numbers were somewhere around top 25% class and at least a 90 on part one still.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
TO RIVER13:

I am 3 months in to my PGY-1 and learning more than I did in 4 years of dental school. I did a lot of research and talked to a lot of people regarding different progams while I was applying and interviewing at various programs. In my opinion the University of Minnesota was one of the best 4 year programs in the nation, and so far I am very happy with my match. The Pros about this program:
1) Friendly and knowledgable Attendings
2) Fellow residents are great
3) Strong Academics
4) Well Rounded: Meaning there is plenty of trauma, implants, TMJ, Orthognathic, Dentalalveolar....Some programs lack cases in one of the above categories.

Cons
Probably the same at every program, but there is a lot more paperwork and behind the scenes work than I anticipated. We do our own lab work for our Orthognathic cases which requires hours spent in the lab.

Can't think of anything else, but be prepared to work hard and there is a very steep learning curve but if you have good fellow residents they will be there to support and help you.
 
Thanks for the info!
 
Is OMS a good field? I mean, are there lots of jobs?

ULTRON
 
After a month of thorough research and contacting OMS directors and programs around the country, I have narrowed down to my three top choices:

1) UCLA (LA)
2) Baylor (Dallas)
3) Univ. Michigan (Ann Arbor)

I have not submitted my applications yet, but now gathering all my application materials. One thing I found out about different OMS Externship programs is that they all require different things and have different application requirements.

For example:

Baylor requires:
1) CPR certification
2) Dean's letter

UCLA requires:
1) 90 on NBDE Part 1
2) Dean's letter
3) OMS faculty rec. letter
4) Undergraduate transcript

Univ. Mich requires:
1) 4 letters of recommendation (1 must be from OMS chair and 1 must be from the Dean)

They ALL require you have have your own room and board, scrubs, transportation, travelling cost and malpractice/liability insurance. Which ever one I get into, I'm very excited to spend 3 weeks with this upcoming summer.

I keep you all updated which one I end up applying to and get accepted to. I plan on submitting my application(s) by December.

If anyone of you have experiences with these three OMS externship programs, please share!

Have a great and safe weekend everyone.
 
Yo Yah-E, you may want to add one more school to your list: LSUHSC in New Orleans.

The program is very good, the price is right (tuition is around $10,000+), the patient population is diverse, plus the city of New Orleans is a great place to spend part of your life in. I've rotated with OMFS students here and I believe they thoroughly enjoy their experience here.

The program itself is fairly competitive (as are most OMFS programs)...I think they take between 3-4 every year. Plus they are affiliated with an excellent dental school at LSU.
 
Puffy:

Thanks my man, I've been in contact with LSUHSC OMS Residency Director, Dr. Block for some time now and I had completely forgotten about his program. I just wrote him an email requesting application materials, their requirements seem fair and pretty standard:

-To be a registered 3rd or 4th US dental student.
-A recent photograph of yourself.
-A letter of recommendation from the Dean of your dental school.
-A letter of recommendation from the Head of the Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Department in your dental school.
-A statement of your class standing (should be in the top 1/3).
-Completed Student Affairs Form.
-Your alternate dates of availability.
-Your personal letter of request for application.
-A letter from applicant's dental school verifying malpractice coverage.

I think I'm going to cross out UCLA off my list. It's simply too far from my future potential practice destination. Afterall, I should apply to OMS externships where I can see myself applying to for an actual OMS residency.

By the way, are you a current M3? Since you stated that you've rotated with OMS residents at LSUHSC. Those OMS residents are probably in their PGY-2 doing their 3rd-year medical degree curriculum. LSUHSC accepts 4 OMS Dual Degree (OMS/MD)residents per year.

Again, thanks for your recommendation. I may very well meet you this upcoming summer at LSUHSC! :clap:
 
Yah-E,

Yep, I'm knee-deep in 3rd year over here at LSU. The OMFS peeps I worked with just finished up their 3rd years (their schedules differ from ours due to a four-month anesthesiology rotation they do early in their 3rd year). They seem to be walking around with an extra spring in their step these days.

New Orleans is a great town, lots to do and see...there are downsides to every city, and NO certainly isn't immune, but I'd recommend it to anyone.
 
This is probably the BEST thread on SDN in my opinion, thanks to Yah-E and others for their wonderful experiences.

So, 4 years of DDS + 4 years of OMS = DDS/MD?

From what I gather from previous posts, after the 8 years of DDS/MD, students can specialise in other MD specialties... like Plastic surgeon, CT surgeon, Neuro Surgeon?

Thanks guys.
 
4 years of dental school + 4 years of OMS residency program = Oral Surgeon without the MD degree

4 years of dental school + 6 years of OMS residency program = Oral Surgeon with the MD degree

After you earn that MD degree, then yes, you may apply to any other MD specialty residencies. I've heard dental students have gone into Anesthesiology, Plastic Surgery, Gynecology and Radiology after they earned their MD degree through OMS training and dropped dentistry all together.

Update: I just recently submitted my OMS Externship application and required materials for LSUHSC in New Orleans. I'll be doing an externship there for a month once accepted. After speaking to the Externship Director there, he pretty much said that if I meet all the program requirements, I'm in. I'm golden, I think.

I'll keep y'all updated. The externship will start in mid May 2004.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Hi Mo007,

Most OMFS/MD programs are 6 years, though some are 5 years. 4-year OMFS programs don't give you an MD I believe.

And yes, you can specialize in other areas of medicine after completing your OMFS/MD program if you choose to undergo additional training.

My uncle did that... After his OMFS/MD he went into general surgery and now teaches at UT San Antonio's med school.

HTH!
 
Tom:

Did you submit your PASS and MATCH applications yet for OMS? Or you still interested in OMS? Just checking!
 
Thanks guys for clearing that up.

This MD title and the extra training can take 10+ years. Wow, at that point dentistry is not relevant anymore, and move onto more MD.

Why would a dentist go that far, when it could have taken him shorter period of time by applying to Medical School?

Isnt it more economical?
 
Yah-E.

Thats a pure motivation, I hope it works out for you.

I ask this for the last time, DDS/DMD with Plastic surgery is 13 yrs?

I thinks its not a bad route, with all the benefits Yah-E mentioned.
 
13 years!? :eek: Oh, hell no....
 
Yup, 13 years of total school and training. Man, that does sounds like a long time. Keep in mind though everyone, once you're in a OMS residency, you're technically working as a resident and you get paid as a resident ($35K - $50K depending where you're accepted foryour training).

If you're doing the 6 year route, some OMS/MD residencies will pay you a stipend for the entire 6 years + free medical school tuition (again, it depends which residency you get accepted to). Further, if you're in a Plastic residency, again, you're getting paid as a medical resident. So in essence, you're actually working for that 9 years after your dental degree. If you get accepted to a cool OMS/MD residency that pays all 6 years, it's like you got a job and you're learning to be a surgeon at the same time.

BTW, Plastics is additional 2 - 3 years of residency after OMS/MD.

For those of you think that medical school is a shorter way to be a Surgeon, well, that is not true. Medical residencies vary in length, but for surgical specialties and subspecialties, I know it's comparable to our OMS/MD training.

For example:

If a medical student wants to be a General Surgeon, that will require 5 years of residency after a 4 year medical school (9 years).

If a medical student wants to do Plastics right out of medical school, then a 5-year residency is required. (9 years)

Thoracic Surgery - 10 years total (4 years MD + 6 years residency)

Urology Surgery - 10 years total

Pediatric Surgery - 11 years total

Here's the link to see more surgical specialty and their length of training:

http://www.facs.org/medicalstudents/answer2.html

So getting that DMD and OMS and MD and Plastics, all in 13 years, it's not that bad. You have to know, an OMS/MD/Plastics is a surgeon that has TWO surgical specialties certifications. All in all, it takes time and training to be a "surgeon"! BUT remember, you get paid during the whole entire training process as a resident! You're not taking out loans or paying tuition during this time!
 
Great post Yah-E.

Just to add to your numbers, peeps should always remember that if those surgeons wish to obtain FURTHER specialization, then additional training is required.

For example, although Thoracic is a 7-year residency following 4 years of med. school, a fellowship in Pediatric thoracic surgery is 10 years of residency! That's a grand total of 14 years of school.
 
Yah-E

What is the average age of a surgeon?

and how long would DDS/DMD-OMS-Cardiovascular Surgeon take?

If everything goes well for me, I will be in my mid 30's.

Here is something about Surgical Specialties Salaries that I came across.

http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html

Thanks.
 
I'd guess the average age of a "surgeon" would be somewhere in the 30s.

I see that you're going for the big bucks wanting to be a Cardiovascular Surgeon! Can you imagine making $850K/year! Damn! That is some sweet $$ rolling in!

I'd guess from DMD => OMS/MD => Cardiovascular Surgeon = 12+ years at least!

It's fun to plan our potential futures here, but remember let's take one step at a time here. Get into dental school first, then maintain at least 3.50+ cumulative dental GPA, earn at least a 90 on NBDE Part 1, and aim to be at least top 15% in class ranking.

Remember getting into an OMS/MD residency can be very competitive and challenging! You'll need the triple threat:

1) Dental Cumulative GPA
2) Class Ranking
3) NBDE Part 1 scores

Nonetheless, keep on planning goals and aim high! :D
 
I know I will get into somewhere for DDS/DMD.

Its wonderful to share individuals experience and vision for the profession. People like Yah-E is what SDN is all about.

I will always have my eye on this thread.

:)
 
Originally posted by Mo007
I know I will get into somewhere for DDS/DMD.

Its wonderful to share individuals experience and vision for the profession. People like Yah-E is what SDN is all about.

I will always have my eye on this thread.

:)
Click to expand...

Just as a side note, if you truly do want to be a Cardiovascular surgeon, then your best bet is to probably just apply to medical school.

I know Yah-E, and I know he truly has a passion for teeth and for surgery, which are leading him into interests into other areas.

Be forewarned though, if your goal is ONLY to be a CV surgeon, then you are going to be sorely depressed going through 4 years of dental school training along with MORE dental training in an OMS spot, only to pass on and become a CV.
 
I think that the more education you receive the better, but I would be careful with some of the thoughts of the previous posts. To start I would be very careful about mentioning a goal of pursuing a MD residency after your Oral Surgery training whether it is a 4 or six year path. My opinion is that this statement will count against you because you will put the question in people's minds as to why you didn't just go to medical school. As far as using dental school, and a six year OMFS program to try and get into CV residency is a little hard to swallow. Just because you have a MD degree through a 6 year program does not mean that you can just enter a MD residency whether it be plastic surgery or any other MD Residency, you still need to apply and you will be competing against 4th year medical students who will more likely be prepared for their USMLE (similar to our national board scores) than you will be when you take it in your 6 year OMFS program. Secondly, I am not sure of any OMFS residency program that would be willing to accept an applicant that overtly states they want to do a MD residency following their OMFS program. Yah-E, I would look into doing an oral surgery fellowship related to plastics after your 6 year program instead of an actual plastics residency. Something to look into. Just my thoughts.
 
And I will second USC2003's comments, based on the little that I know/observe about OMS. He/she is just more eloquent than anything that I could have put up.

A key person is driving me towards academic oral surgery, and he's my mentor at UCSF. This is an individual who is now devoting his time to tackle oral cancer by seeing patients and also doing basic science research concurrently. While degrees matter (and he does have a DDS, MD, and PhD, in addition to a head and neck cancer fellowship), it is his attitude and care for the oral cancer patients that inspires me.

Oral cancer patients in the US fall into a strange dilemma. In the old days, and I surmise that for the vast majority today, they end up being seen by ENT's. It makes sense too since a lot of these patients will need neck dissections, and ENTs are readily trained to do that. That being said, I'll tell you that manyENTs do not keep occlusion in mind when they're done with ressections. Furthermore, I know that at least in our hospital, the patients don't get teeth (implants) after ressection and reconstruction of the mandible.

My professor is now taking on a lot of the oral cancer cases, and it is apt because after all, he IS the ORAL surgeon. The MD degree is allowing him to do these life-saving procedures for the patients, and does make it easier for him to interact with medical colleagues from other departments. Oral cancer patients who go through him will come out of surgery with good reconstruction that still allows the arches to occlude, and with implants as well so that they may ultimately eat.

While it is great that as an OMFS/MD, one can tackle 'other' specialties, I would hope that a lot of talented folks on this board will keep those patients who really need their particular talents in mind. These are the patients with oral cancer and other debilitating oral diseases that require surgical intervention.

Just another word of perspective here. I worked with an OMS from mainland China recently, and he told me that in China, OMS does what ENT's in this country do. ENTs apparently have a smaller scope of practice than OMS in China. In England, OMS also enjoy a more prominent position. The causes are that of historical development. Their OMS just started doing certain procedures before ENTs got to them.

That brings me back to my final point. American oral and maxillofacial surgery is at a point of tremendous upswing. A new generation of educators are staying in the academia to solidify and expand the field. Those of us who are interested in oral surgery are in a prime position to shape this field.

We leave for this field its American legacy.

I leave you with one story. The Chancellor of UCSF wrote in his book recently about his decision to leave that Harvard establishment for professorship at UCSF. While that might not seem too strange these days, it was a little aberrant based on the Chancellor's story which I quote in the following:

"In those days, UCSF was hardly known outside the city limits of San Francisco. When I told a friend at the NIH of my plans, he claimed not to know that there was a medical school in San Francisco...yet my decision to go there was an easy one, because the opportunities involved in going seemed so much greater than those in staying. I would have been a mere embellishment on the East Coast. I was genuinely needed in San Francisco...Go where you are genuinely needed: do not let prestige set the course."

I hope that in my generation, there will come forth a special group of oral surgeons, who will define the field in this dynamic time. To leave behind a proud legacy for American oral and maxillofacial surgeons can be our greatest contribution to our future colleagues, and most importantly, to our patients. It is in their ailment that we gain entrance to a priviledged profession, and it is precisely that which we must seek to address. We should go where we are needed.

Much thanks if you've actually read the entire post.
 
First, I must say to both USC2003 and Standford Fencer, "it's always great to see you two both post from time to time!"

Now, USC2003, many of what you have said are true and you simply point out the reality. You're absolutely right on about how any medical residencies are not a "gimmy" after a OMS/MD residency. An application process is again required and steep competition is AGAIN encountered. A high USMLE Step 1 score will probably be one of the main determinants to judge you against others as a potential resident.

Plastics, ladies and gentlemen, is probably one the most competitive medical residencies out there along with Dermotology, Orthopedic Surgery and Radiology. A high USMLE Step 1 is usually required (I've heard a score of >240). With that said, a bite of reality check is sometime needed.

At times, I'm still thinking if OMS/MD is really what I want or "need" (in Standford' Fencer's definition) to do. Afterall, if I thought NBDE Part 1 is "pain in the @ss", I would have to go through all the following REQUIRED MAJOR examinations to acheive my goal:

1) NBDE Part 2
2) USMLE Step 1
3) USMLE Step 2
4) USMLE Step 3
5) Florida Licensure Board (dental)
6) Oral & Maxillofacial Written Examination Board
7) Oral & Maxillofacial Oral Examination Board

I don't know about you guys, but that is a whole lot of MAJOR exams! As I have stated before, the direction to OMS or OMS/MD degree for me is a known value and I'm currently paving the road to it. Whether I end up walking on this "road", that is remain to be seen.


Standford:

How's 2nd year treating ya? Do you find Pharmocology challenging (especially the Autonomics section)? Just my opinion, I think that it's really a great thing that you have passion in the academia aspect of the OMS specialty and emphasize your attention towards the "needed". I'm glad that you'll be in my class of OMS colleagues (if I end up walking on the "road" I paved).
 
A recent conversation with an OMS resident informed me that the national rate of oms residents opting out of oral surgery and into some form of MD specialities is an alarming rate of 50%. Harvard, for example, has a very prestigious med school.......and most of the oms residents end up skipping out on oms.... Perhaps these individuals are truely the rejects of med school that wasted 4 years in dental schools. Of course this is frowned upon, but with the MD degree, they are free to do whatever they want. :rolleyes:

I am also interested in the plastics aspects of OMS. I believe some of the programs out there have an extra year of fellowship. Crap.....that's gonna make it a 7 year program........maybe I should just stick to the "bread-n-butter" and stick to the good 'ol extraction of impacted wisdom teeth at $500 a pop! :laugh:
 
Yah-E

I was just curious about your class rank and how you did on the NBE part 1. It sounds like you went into school knowing you wanted to specialize and I was just curious on how hard you are working to make it happen. Also, if you think your chances will be good, just based on grades. Excluding research and externships. I know you will have those. Let me know . Thanks.
 
Openwyd:

My current class ranking = #21 out of 105
My current cumulative GPA = 88.88% (3.56)
NBDE Part 1 = 90

You're right, I did aim to specialize in OMS prior to matriculation into dental school. Did I work hard, yes, I did, during the first semester first year. Second semester first year, I slumped and did not work as hard. This semester, first semester second year, I'm again not doing too hot (getting mostly 80s very few 90s). I have to have a strong finish during the final examination time.

My goal is to maintain a 90% average this semester and my cumulative GPA and class ranking should increase.

Do I think that my chances will be good matching into an OMS residency solely based on my current numbers excluding research or externships? Oh, NOT A CHANCE!

If my numbers were:

Top 10
3.60+
95 on Part 1

then my chances will boost up to "still NO!" without any externships or research

To be honest, every OMS residency directors that I've spoken to, they want more than just numbers. You have to have numbers, but they look for much much more in an applicant such as:

Leadership experiences - class president, ASDA chapter president
Research - OMS orientated prefered, publishing papers is a bonus, but not required
Externships - at least two preferred
Extracurriculars - organizations involvement, volunteering (going on missions)

The fact of the matter is, there will be roughly 200+ OMS and OMS/MD applicants each year for roughly 100 some resident spots available. Guess what, majority of those applicants have amazing numbers. The competition will always remain competitive and fierce. It would be mind-boggling for any applicant to not do any externships and/or research to increase their chances.

Now all this is of course what I have gathered from my resources and references which are all OMS residents and OMS residency program directors. I'm sure there are at least one or two applicants out there each year with:

#1 in class ranking
3.98 GPA
99 on Part 1
his father is the OMS program director

that got matched without any other credentials, but believe me, that is VERY far from where and who I am. I will have to continue to work hard to earn and secure that one spot out of that 100+ in 2006.

Thanks for asking!
 
Yah-E

That was a great post. Thanks for the information. It is good to know what the resident directors look for in applicants. Also, keep up the good work. Sounds like you'll have a good shot.
 
Originally posted by Stanford Fencer


Oral cancer patients in the US fall into a strange dilemma. In the old days, and I surmise that for the vast majority today, they end up being seen by ENT's. It makes sense too since a lot of these patients will need neck dissections, and ENTs are readily trained to do that. That being said, I'll tell you that manyENTs do not keep occlusion in mind when they're done with ressections. Furthermore, I know that at least in our hospital, the patients don't get teeth (implants) after ressection and reconstruction of the mandible.
Click to expand...


Most ENTs working with head and neck cancer have a prosthodontist that evaluates the patient prior to resection, and sees the patient post resection. And no, I don't have occlusion in mind when I remove a T4N2C squamous cell carcinoma of the maxillary sinus; I do a maxillectomy; the prosthodontist is there to make an obturator.
My professor is now taking on a lot of the oral cancer cases, and it is apt because after all, he IS the ORAL surgeon. The MD degree is allowing him to do these life-saving procedures for the patients, and does make it easier for him to interact with medical colleagues from other departments. Oral cancer patients who go through him will come out of surgery with good reconstruction that still allows the arches to occlude, and with implants as well so that they may ultimately eat.

While it is great that as an OMFS/MD, one can tackle 'other' specialties, I would hope that a lot of talented folks on this board will keep those patients who really need their particular talents in mind. These are the patients with oral cancer and other debilitating oral diseases that require surgical intervention.
Click to expand...

Your mentor has an MD and a head and neck cancer fellowship, so I'm not surprised that he's doing oral cancer cases. Most OMSs that I see will biopsy oral cancer and except in the case of small T1N0 lesions, will refer to ENT. Many will refer for any cancer.

I think that in the case of small N0 lesions, especially of the buccal mucosa/alveolus, an oral surgeon is very adequately qualified to remove these cancers. T1 of the tongue is probably also resectable by OMS.

What about a T2-3N0 squame of the tongue? These tumors have a higher rate of occult metastasis; elective bilateral Level 1-3 neck dissection (supraomohyoid) is very commonly done now for these tumors and is standard of care. Are you as an OMS going to resect the lesion without doing a neck dissection?

Maxillary sinus tumors also often present as T3/T4, these often have regional neck metastases

Not trying to be malicious here, one of my favorite cases from training so far was a young guy with mandibular ameloblastoma, combo resection with ENT/OMS, we did a fibula free flap for recon...implanted later...sweet
 
I'm very surprised at the things I've been hearing on this board, with this topic in particular...

Doggie - I work for a Harvard OMFS grad and know many of the Harvard OMFS residents (past and present) quite well. In the last 15 years, she said 4 (out of 45) have opted to do non-OMFS specialties after obtaining the MD from Harvard. Get your facts straight.

Keep it real boys.

AjM
 
Originally posted by ajmacgregor
I'm very surprised at the things I've been hearing on this board, with this topic in particular...

Doggie - I work for a Harvard OMFS grad and know many of the Harvard OMFS residents (past and present) quite well. In the last 15 years, she said 4 (out of 45) have opted to do non-OMFS specialties after obtaining the MD from Harvard. Get your facts straight.

Keep it real boys.

AjM
Click to expand...

hehe.........of course my story was very anecdotal, as I have heard it from another resident from my school...... my point wasnt to rag on the harvard omfs residents...... my point was to rag on the ppl who skip out on omfs/dds into pure md stuff.....:laugh:
 
Why am I not surprised that when I talk about scope of practice for an OMS that I get an ENT on the board :)

Well, here's the problem.

I'm just a second year dental student. As much as I'm working hard, I may not even get selected into an OMS residency. Hence, I cannot at this point reply with a vocabulary comparable to yours.

I can tell you what I know. I have observed my prof do a "fibula free flap for recon," which he collaborated with a plastic surgeon. My mentor also does his own neck dissection, which he does fairly frequently. I also have seen how he replaces a condyle with a rib. I'm saying all this in laymen terms of course... you'll have to cut me some slack. Oh, and yes, to stay true to his OMS colors, he also performs orthognathic surgery (though quite infrequently).

Amidst the turf war among PRS, OMS, and ENT, I think that the true leaders find less concern for anatomic and professional boundaries and more concern for good results among the health care community of interest.

.
 
Hi Yah-E,

I read the links that you posted with great interest. Incidentally, there was a paragraph in there:

....It was an OMS, in fact, who pioneered one of the most important recent advances in facial cosmetic surgery, Dr. Jones notes. The technique, known as the four-dimensional facelift, represents a significant improvement over conventional surgical procedures, which primarily lift and tighten the skin from the outside.

Developed by Stephen Watson, D.D.S., M.D, of Plano, Tex, who will speak at the symposium, the four-dimensional facelift repositions and lifts all four layers of facial tissue, producing more attractive, natural and enduring results. The surgeon manipulates the skin, the subcutaneous layer (tissue immediately under the skin surface), the facial muscles, and the periosteum, the membrane of nerve- and blood-rich tissue covering the bones. Laser skin resurfacing can be performed at the same time to reduce wrinkling....

It's interesting because at a recent return from an ADEA interim meeting, I was chatting with a pilot who was on the same flight (from Cleveland to Minneapolis). The pilot was the niece of Dr. Stephen Watson in the article.

Isn't it a small freakin' world

:eek:
 
That second article you posted is quite an exciting advance.

What I have observed in the OR for the replacement of tongue is the "Chinese flap."

A technique orrowed from the Chinese surgeons, a portion of the forearm (palm side) is resected to replace the tongue.

Thanks for the articles!
 
Originally posted by ajmacgregor
I'm very surprised at the things I've been hearing on this board, with this topic in particular...

Doggie - I work for a Harvard OMFS grad and know many of the Harvard OMFS residents (past and present) quite well. In the last 15 years, she said 4 (out of 45) have opted to do non-OMFS specialties after obtaining the MD from Harvard. Get your facts straight.

Keep it real boys.

AjM
Click to expand...

I thought those numbers were very high, but I appreciate the ancedote anyways.

OMS is a very coveted position, and I think the number who completely leave OMS to do things in other realms is a very, very small percentage. Certainly those moving to plastics or ENT are the most common, and graduates moving to specialties other than those are literally non-existant from year to year.
 
Do you have to take Steps I and II before applying for an OMS/MD residency?
 
You take the USMLE Step I during your OMS residency. Exactly when depends on the particular program.

At the Bellevue/NYUCD OMFS-MD program for example, the OMFS residents do a review of the basic sciences during their PGY-2 and must take the USMLE Step I before their 3rd year of residency.

Up here at the University at Buffalo OMFS-MD program, they take their USMLE Step I after PGY-1.
 
Originally posted by Stanford Fencer
Why am I not surprised that when I talk about scope of practice for an OMS that I get an ENT on the board :)

Well, here's the problem.

I'm just a second year dental student. As much as I'm working hard, I may not even get selected into an OMS residency. Hence, I cannot at this point reply with a vocabulary comparable to yours.

I can tell you what I know. I have observed my prof do a "fibula free flap for recon," which he collaborated with a plastic surgeon. My mentor also does his own neck dissection, which he does fairly frequently. I also have seen how he replaces a condyle with a rib. I'm saying all this in laymen terms of course... you'll have to cut me some slack. Oh, and yes, to stay true to his OMS colors, he also performs orthognathic surgery (though quite infrequently).

Amidst the turf war among PRS, OMS, and ENT, I think that the true leaders find less concern for anatomic and professional boundaries and more concern for good results among the health care community of interest.

.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I enjoy working closely with OMS colleagues. I think that your post was somewhat misleading, though. It seems that you were trying to take an OMS/MD with H&N cancer training and generalize what he does over the entire field of OMS and say, "This is what the future of the field holds." I doubt very much that general OMS will be doing neck dissection in the future without having and MD and additional training.

I also doubt that general OMS can do rhinoplasty/septoplasty without additional training. This is just not in OMS scope of practice. I'm a third year ENT resident and I work on the nose all the time, I am just starting to understand some of the principles underlying septorhinoplasty.

Do I do orthognathic? No. Do I even do much mandible? That is really going to OMS now, unless an ENT is in an area without an OMS they really are electing to give the mandible fractures to OMS, which is absoutely appropriate.

We need to work together to care for our patients. But let's not make generalizations.
 
Originally posted by Stanford Fencer
That second article you posted is quite an exciting advance.

What I have observed in the OR for the replacement of tongue is the "Chinese flap."

A technique orrowed from the Chinese surgeons, a portion of the forearm (palm side) is resected to replace the tongue.

Thanks for the articles!
Click to expand...

Radial forearm free flap reconstruction (RFFF) is now standard of care for oral cavity/oropharyngeal/hypopharyngeal defects from H&N cancer resection. It's really the future of the field. 1 year fellowship after ENT
 
To ENT Doc

your comment:
"I doubt very much that general OMS will be doing neck dissection in the future without having and MD and additional training."

The last I checked, I wrote that my professor does this at UCSF, and he does it having had the MD degree and additional training. I did not imply that all OMS in the future will be performing such surgeries. In fact, since cancer doesn't pay, most OMS wouldn't even want to do this. In private practice setting, where molar extractions are the bread and butter of the practice, there is really no evident difference between 4 and 6 year guys.

The point of my e-mail was a candid effort to encourage those who want to do OMS, that options are available, and that there is the possibility of expanding one's scope of practice with further training. The more of such people we have, the more we can add to OMS as a field. I still strongly believe that surgeons such as my professors have a lot to add in the advancement of oral cancer treatment. Furthermore, in several countries, their OMS do indeed take most of the oral cancer patients. How we do things in this country is a result of historical development (traditionally oral surgeons in this country do not have the MD training).

Thus was the point of my message, to maybe inspire dentists on this board who are interested in OMS. I'm just not surprised that after you read it, and took it as some kind of generalized message regarding OMS invading onto ENT turf.
 
Why would anybody want to take the world's most perfect career and sully it up with a long, grueling residency, 50 hr. work week, and weekend call? Seriously, have you guys thought this through? ;) :D
 
Amen to that Supernumerary! However, I respect all specialists, since I'm gonna be sending my complicated patients to them.

DesiDentist
 
Supernumerary:

Believe me, I think about that question everyday (or before every exam). I tell myself that if I forgo my goal of becoming an OMS, my life and dental school days will become so much easier and relaxing. No more pressure of studying, no more pressure of maintaining or increasing my class rank and no more pressure of doing well on exams.

Believe you and me, without those specific pressures, dental school is SO much easier and I'll have even more time to play (if you think I play a lot now).

I think that (especially for me) once I set my mind to a goal/dream to something, I will attempt it with everything I've got until either I fail miserably or I achieve it.

Why give up all that luxury of 40+ hour work weeks, not being on calls, no more residencies and/or 4+ years of potential 100K+ income (in comparison to your dental buddies who works right out of school) to become an OMS you asked?

My own personal answer is, "I've achieved my goal!"

A side note: I strongly believe that after my month-long OMS externship at LSU this summer, that specific experience will DEFINITELY either solidify my goal of becoming an OMS or crush it. I'll keep y'all updated.
 
Originally posted by Yah-E


I think that (especially for me) once I set my mind to a goal/dream to something, I will attempt it with everything I've got until either I fail miserably or I achieve it.

Click to expand...

Listen to the man! Yah-E is one of the few people I've met who has mastered the art of aggressive goal grabbing. If he wants it, watch out, he'll get it.

DesiDentist
 
It's official! I've been offered an OMS externship at LSUHSC in New Orleans for this upcoming summer. I'll be there for 4-weeks (June through July 2004). I'm extremely excited and a little nervous as well.

I've heard that these OMS externships are not only intensive, but I will also see A LOT, learn A LOT and do A LOT. Yeah baby, my summer plans are set.

As usual, I'm sure I'll be posting all sorts of fun experiences on here as I experience them through out my externship. Stay tuned!

:clap:
 
Originally posted by Yah-E
It's official! I've been offered an OMS externship at LSUHSC in New Orleans for this upcoming summer. I'll be there for 4-weeks (mid-May through mid-June 2004). I'm extremely excited and a little nervous as well.

I've heard that these OMS externships are not only intensive, but I will also see A LOT, learn A LOT and do A LOT. Yeah baby, my summer plans are set.

As usual, I'm sure I'll be posting all sorts of fun experiences on here as I experience them through out my externship. Stay tuned!

:clap:
Click to expand...

Hey congrats, sounds like you're on the way to omfs-land. Keep us posted and best of luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

UTHSCSA_OMS
NOW HIRING: Oral Surgery Clinical Instructor / Intern
Replies
0
Views
591
UTHSCSA_OMS
UTHSCSA_OMS
G
Geisinger OMFS - externship and internship opportunities
Replies
0
Views
1K
GeisingerOMFS1
G
O
CDCA for OMFS
Replies
2
Views
1K
Ivy.ch
Ivy.ch
G
OMS Externship Opportunity
Replies
0
Views
230
GeisingerOMS
G
1
Future Job outlook for Oral Surgeons
Replies
2
Views
819
veryhappylabrador
veryhappylabrador
Top