Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery (OMS)

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:clap:clap:clap: Hey Congrats Yah-E :clap:clap:clap:

Best of luck to you! Yeah, keep us posted:clap:

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For Deuce 007:

So does the OMS get the dds or dmd and a MD degree?
Yes, some Oral Surgeons do have double degrees (DMD/DDS, MD). There are two ways that a graduated dental student does this:

First Student: less frequent route to OMS/MD [old days]
1st Step: graduates dental, earns DMD/DDS

2nd Step:
1) went into an allopathic med school as an advance standing student and earns MD

OR

2) completes an OMS residency (4 years)

3rd Step:

1) completes an OMS residency after earning the MD degree

OR

2) go into an allopathic med school as an advance standing student with OMS certificate already

Second Student: more common way now days [Integrated residency programs]
1st Step: graduate dental school, earns DMD/DDS

2nd Step: complete a 6-year OMS residency program. These 6-year OMS residency programs essentially has the 3rd & 4th year medical curriculum integrated within the 6 years. Usually by the 3rd year of the 6-year residency program, the OMS resident will earn the MD degree.

By the fourth year (PGY-4) in the 6-year OMS residency program, the OMS resident is already a DMD/DDS & MD.

I've also notice a few of you guys go to dental schools that have a DO school at well, do you guys sit in on any of the same classes?

At Nova, we have a DO school. We as dental students do take some of the basic sciences with the medical students. There are no DMD/DDS & DO OMS residency programs available at this time.

All double degree OMS programs are conjugated with an allopathic school.
 
Hey everyone, there's no need to congratulate me. It sure is exciting news for me, but this is only an externship.

Some OMS externships are easy to get into and some are not! Some require at least a 90 on Part 1 for the OMS department just to consider you as an extern. Some require you to be a state resident for the OMS department to consider your externship application. Some require you to be in top 1/3 of your class!

Majority of the OMS externship have thier application requirements and guidelines. Some requirements are thorough and some are not. Some of the OMS department will offer their OMS externships out left and right, some will treat their externship applications as competitive as their OMS residency applications.

For example:

UCLA OMS externship: they require you to have at least a 90 on Part 1 just to consider you

LSUHSC OMS externship: they require you to be at least top 1/3 of your class just to consider you

Michigan OMS externship: they require you to have 4 letters of recommendation (one from OMS Chair of your dental school and one from Dean of your dental school, the other two from whomever)

Baylor OMS externship: simple requirements

As you can see, applying to an externship can be pain in the @ss or as easy as asking "Can I participate in your externship?"
 
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hey congrats!

I'm also in the process of applying for an externship. Some of my choices include LSU, Parkland, and Mass Gen. I want to do two 2-week externships at different locations, but my advisor keeps on pushing me for a 1 month gig at parkland.
 
Doggie:

Go down to New Orleans, in that way, you and I can finally have our differences sort out. :laugh:

Apply for June when I'll be there! If you want the contact info and all the details about the LSUHSC externship, let me know. I've got it all.

I've heard that LSUHSC is a heavy trauma OMS place. I'm pumped! Yes, most people and OMS externships will recommend a month-long experience. Two weeks are just enough to sample what each of the OMS residency has to offer, but you'll probably get more out of it if you stay for at least 3 weeks or up to a month!

My goal is to do one OMS externship this upcoming summer (which I am for a month), do another one during X-mas/winter break 2004 (a 3-week one) and my last one during summer 2005 (a month).

I figure 3 OMS externships on my CV will be extremely helpful!

Let me know Doggie, it would be cool to meet some SDN OMS hopefuls.
 
One thing I've heard at all my OMS interviews this year (7 so far, 5 more to go) is how my fellow interviewees wish that they had done more SHORT-2 week externships instead of LONG-4 week ones. You should do them at the places you most want to go, and you need do do as many as possible because its really hard to evaluate a program during a 1 day interview. 2 weeks gives a better picture, and the ability to do more of them. Better to see 6 places at 2 weeks each than 3 at 1 month each. I know some programs make themselves out to be things that they're not during the interview. Just my opinion and what I've heard from others.
 
So do OMS have turf disputes w/ ear nose and throat docs? Can you guys get into facial plastics too? Just curious.
 
13 Rivers:

Congrats on all your OMS interviews. I'm sure you'll be happy on Match Day in December (I wish you the best on matching your first choice). I suppose if you want to use externships as opportunities to evaluate OMS residency programs, a two-week period is a great idea.

For me, since this will be my first "official" OMS externship, I really want to get the full experience at a cool OMS residency program. That is why I researched and researched on which OMS externship I wanted to applied to. I've heard all positives about LSUHSC OMS from both faculties and D4s that have done an OMS externship there.

Also, since I know externships are opportunities to make a positive impression for future residency applications, I rather spend quality time where I can see myself possibly doing my residency in the future.

Again, like I said prior, my goal is not to have 12 OMS externships on my CV, but only 3 at most so I get a great experience of what OMS is all about.

Nonetheless, I've also heard that 2-week externships are great ideas due to the fact that:

a) if you have made a negative impression to the faculty and/or residents, you're not stuck there for a longer period of time

b) if you didn't have a place to stay and you're renting rooms by the day

c) if you know for fact that specific OMS residency program is not where you want to do your residency at after you've seen it

Regardless, I'm pumped for my first one-month externship, we'll just have to see if this one-month thing is a good thing or a bad thing based on my own experience.





Deuce 007:

If you go to the SURGERY AND SURGICAL SUBSPECIALTIES forum, there you'll find couple of thread about ENTs and OMSs. I actually had the very same question as you and it was answered nicely by couple of ENT residents that are SDN surfers. To make long story short, OMS and ENT do cross paths, but very seldom.

As for facial plastics, OMS (with MD degree or not) do do a bit of genioplasty (chin augmentation), blepharoplasty (eyelids), lipoplasty of neck and face and rhinoplasty (nose jobs). I suppose face lifts can be possible as well as since OMS frequently performs bicoronal flaps for reconstructing facial bone fractures.

Also, an OMS/MD resident with a high USMLE Step 1 score (240-260) can choose to apply to a Plastic fellowship (2-3 years) after their OMS residency to become fully certified Plastic Surgeon if they so desire. It's very competitive in get into a Plastic residency even for OMS/MDs, if not more competitive because of medical students who are applying to them as well! That is why a high/competitive Step 1 score is required.
 
Unless you are absolutely sure you want to bed at that particular spot (unlikely) one month is too long. You can learn everything in two weeks and make a good impression. One other thing to keep in mind. No matter your strength as an applicant, it is important to go to a program with a strong rep. This will reflect better on your cv. I underestimated the importance of the externship, doing only one. I have also found-out that it is nearly impossible to learn about a program in a day, during the interviews. 7/12 and I am exhausted with the whole process. It gets hard to get motivated.
 
OMFS applicant:

Good luck in your future interviews and on Match day. Do you and River13 mind sharing where you guys have applied or have gone to interviews at?

4 or 6 year programs?

Your numbers:
1) class rank
2) cumulative GPA
4) NBDE Part 1 scores

I know I'm asking a lot and you may be hesitant to share this type of info for whatever reason(s), but one thing that make this forum unique and resourceful is because of you upper classmen and your experiences.

Anything you can share will be greatly appreciated and respected.

Thanks in advance!

Andy
 
Here's my understanding of this whole process: >90 will get you an interview at almost all of the most comp. programs. After that, it is strong letters, research, involvement, and a good interview i.e. be able to discuss your externship, research ect. Almost all of the interviews are the same--tour, same Qs,. If you are a competitvie applic. you will see the same people at all the interviews, translation everyone of those people will place, and they will tell you that. As for numbers, one individual from my schoo with the lowest numbers as been described to me by numerous indivuals as the most comp. applic. last year, while the kid with the strongest board scores applying from my school had to post-match. If you really wnat my specifics let me know.
 
No need for specific numbers if you don't wish to share. How about which residency programs are you're applying to? Do you think that you've ran into River13 during one of your interviews? :laugh:
 
Well I've been reading this thread for quite a while without commenting. Albeit I'm just a lowly pre-dent, so I don't know a whole lot about OMFS but I can say from what I see from volunteering at UMaryland dept of OMFS. I have had numerous hours shadowing general dentistry and GPR as well as many in OMFS and honestly I have to say I love it. Most of my pre-dent friends comments usually involve "why....you'll be on call" etc as I'm sure you all have heard. But a typical afternoon at the hospital:

Extractions/patient consults/variety of typical OMS procedures
Major Surgical Cases in the OR (usually cancer)
Rounds to check up on patients that are recovering
Trauma call (Always interesting cases)

I absolutely love going to volunteer, I always learn something even though I have yet to enter dental school. Honestly this is an awesome field. When I asked one of the surgeons why he picked it over another speciality he simply said: I love what I do. And I hope to one day be that surgeon telling the same thing to another hopeful pre-dent.
 
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I keep reading about people saying that OMS is bad because you would be on call. I may be wrong, but aren't you only on call IF you work in a hospital?? If you own your own practice, I think you'd set your own hours. Anyone with some input?
 
Presumably you'd have to do some work in a hospital, unless you want to spend all day cutting out 3rds (not disparagingly, it's just hard to do more invasive procedures in the outpatient setting).
 
In it for the money:

You can be on call in several circumstances.

1) You're an OMS resident on training (before you're actual certified as an OMS surgeon). In this scenario, you'll be on call A LOT, probably something like once every 3 nights.

2) You're a certified OMS surgeon affliated with hospitals. I have mentioned it before somewhere on SDN that for a trauma medical center to be considered as Level One trauma center, an OMS surgeon has to on call and be a part of the trauma team.

Why would OMS surgeons affliate with hospitals, you may ask? Well, simply put, hospital privileges using their OR for various procedures. I don't know exactly how this works yet, but I'm assuming that you help out the hospital a bit in emergency situations and in return, they'll let you use their OR for your patient procedures.

As an OMS surgeon, of course, you can choose not to be affliated with any hospitals and/or trauma centers and do all of your procedures in your private office.

I've seen numerous OMS private offices where they are equiped with state-of-the-art OR machinaries and they have their own MD anesthesiologist come in when ever they need them. Just like many Plastic surgeons offices (just like Nip & Tuck, the TV show).

In that circumstance, you have no need to use the hospital setting and their ORs since you have your own OR in your own private office. This approach equals no hospital on calls.

3) Now, with all that said, as a general dentist, endodontist and/or oral surgeon, you will always be "on call" in a way. At any point in time, your patient can have some sort of accident, trauma and/or discomfort, you'll have to have a emergency number set up where they can contact and reach you immediately!

For example, when I shadowed two general dentists a while back, the two dentists would take turns to be "on call" in case of dental related emergencies. Do they get called a lot? Probably not, but they're still "on call" if something does happen.

So regardless of private office "on call" or hospital "on call", you'll going have to be ready and available for your patients. It so just happens that when an OMS surgeon gets the "call", it's usually more serious/life threatening than lets say when a general dentist gets a "call" in the middle of the night.

Have I blabbed on long enough, you think? Hope I gave you some insights. Now, of course, since I'm not an OMS resident or surgeon (yet), whatever I typed here may or may not be accurate. Hopefully, some current OMS residents can shed some light for us to this "on call" topic.
 
We had a two hour clinical case presentation on OMFS...cool stuff!!!

We saw this guy that tried to kill himself with a shotgun but he lived. Blew off half of his face and I mean from the top of his head to the mandible and the OMFS fixed him up just nice

More props to all those that want to do it.
 
After match day I'll tell the good, bad, and ugly on every program I interviewed at...and I'll post all my requested credentials then...good chance I've ran into omfsapplicant already...I've applied to 4 and 6 yr programs, more 6 than 4...finished 8 of 12 planned interviews, and am totally burned out on them...

On the subject of externships, I want to add that like I said, you should extern where you want to go, a big name is good, etc...but its also a good idea to extern at a place you think you can get in, one that's not a big name...in other words, take the example of my classmate...top 10% of class, 92 part I boards, did an externship at UAB...arguably one of best three programs in the country...didn't even get an interview there because his numbers were'nt quite high enough...seems this year to interview there you needed >95 board, top 5% of class...so lesson to be learned is its good to do a second or third externship at a place you feel very competitive at, even if its not a big name...
 
I couldn't agree more, if you know where you want to be, you must do an externshio there. Most programs end-up taking either indivuals from their programs or people who did externships there. Simply put, they know the person and aren't taking the risk that the applicant was simplyon his/her best behaivor that day. Unfortunately for me, I had know no idea where I really wanted to be. If you don't extern at a big name /busy program, peole are going to ask why you went there. As far as the cut-offs go, I know this year that the numbers are unusually high according to my program director, though fewer of us are applying. I can tell you that if you are in the 90s your app. will be read, and hopefully you then have some other stuff their--research, leadership, good essay, ect. 8/12 and counting. I want this to be over!
 
YAH-E were you serious about being able to apply to Plastic Surgery after OMFS training?

Here is my question: Ok, so you finish OMFS training and decide on an AMA approved Plastics specialty (which either exists alone or as a subspecialty of general surger).

So you suicidely decide to do the following:

1. Take USMLE Step I (which you have to score above 95% to stay competitive).

2. Take USMLE Step II (which I don't think alot of Dental students will have much knowledge of because they don't have medical rotations. But for the sake of argument, say you score above 95%).

3. Take the Clinical Skills Assessment (CSA) which is now required by all MDs and DOs in America, and get a high pass.

OPT to take

4. USMLE Step III (again, above 95%. But this will vary with the residency and state you are aiming for).

Ok, now that you've done this and put yourself next to God himself, and you've applied EXTREMELY early in the process to get a competitive edge and are up against the best medical students in the nation, what next? Do you submit your app then? Or what?

PLUS, my question is, doesn't the AMA put up requirements for taking these exams? Don't you have to be in a OMFS/MD program to even qualify? What if you had opted for a OMFS/MS program? Would you qualify for all of this? And also, the residency programs, don't they have strict requirements that include something to the effect of having had certain clinical rotations during your training that you have to meet?

Gosh, if you say yes to all of this, then there is no difference between MDs and DDS/DMDs. A doctor, is a doctor, is a doctor...philosophically speaking. :clap: :clap:

Your opinions on this PLEASE :)
 
Bucktooth:

Several points of clarification:

"IF" I were to be interested in Plastic Surgery fellowship, I would have to complete a OMS/MD residency which is 6 years

If this were to be the case, then I would have to complete the 3rd & 4th years of allopathic medical education (medical school rotations), which leads to the MD degree.

These two years of medical schools are usually completed within the 6 years of OMS/MD residency. An OMS residency will be a MD by the time when (s)he is a PGY-4.

But before all of that, an OMS resident (PGY-1) must take the USMLE and pass it to enter PGY-2, which is medical education 3rd year curriculum.

Samples of a 6-year OMS/MD residencies:

http://www.mayo.edu/mms/md-oms-clinical.html
http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/dental/OMS/OMS_Res2.html
http://www.tambcd.edu/oralsurgery/postdoc/postdoc.html
http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/oralsurgery/residency/residency.htm
http://www.pbhs.com/omsnet/block/dept/resi/index.html

Now, with all that said, it should become clear to you that USMLE Step II should not be any problems now because an OMS/MD resident have had the proper medical school training to pass the exam.

Now, applying to Plastic Surgery residency and/or fellowship, I'm sure it is VERY competitive. But if I do well on Step I, I believe that itself is significant/suffice enough to be a competitive applicant for a spot since that is one of the most considered factor in the matching process. Afterall, all medical students (including myself if I were to be in a 6-year OMS/MD residency) are compared based on the USMLE Step I scores.

Now, if I opt to do ONLY a 4-year OMS residency which does not lead to a MD degree, then I am obvioulsy not qualified to even apply to a Plastic surgery fellowship because I don't have a MD degree. Also, in this case, I wouldn't need to take the USMLE Step I, II and III because again there's no MD curriculum or degree involved in this OMS route.



So, to sum up:

1) you don't need to take the USMLE Step I, II or III, if you are only doing the 4-year OMS residency

2) you are not qualified to apply for an AMA Plastic Surgery fellowship without a MD degree

3) I strongly believe that the competitiveness of matching into a Plastic Surgery residency/fellowship is largely based on the USMLE Step I scores (weighs more than Step II and III).

4) I believe doing Plastic Surgery with my knowledge in Dentistry is a very attractive option, but I'm not EVEN close being there yet. I hardly know if I'll even match into an OMS/MD residency yet? All too early to tell or even plan. I'm not even finished with my 2nd year, for god sakes!

Only thing I'm positive at this point is that my grades are up there, my class rank is pretty good, I have a 90 on NBDE Part 1 and I'm offered an OMS externship at LSUHSC which offers the OMS/MD 6-year residency. All other things are only fun to talk about and cool to dream. Perhaps one day, they all will come true, but for now, I've got to eat my lunch and go back to class at 1 PM.

Hope things are more clear now.
 
to Bucktooth:

Yah-E is right... My uncle did exactly what Yah-E described. His credentials are here at the UT San Antonio Med School web site:
http://www.uthscsa.edu/surgery/surgery/fulltime.html
(scroll down to the bottom because his last name starts with a W)

Peter T. H. Wang, Division of Plastic Surgery
Appointed 1999; D.M.D., Harvard School of Dental Medicine 1987; M.D., Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons 1992; Residency Training, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center, New York 1990, Surgery, Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania 1996, Plastic Surgery, Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania 1998; Fellowship in Craniofacial Plastic Surgery, Los Angeles Children's Hospital 1999.
 
Damn Tom....your uncle has VERY VERY impressive credentials.....he must be very loaded! Good for him, cause from the amount of studying he has done, he deserved it.
 
WOW Tom....

i can't even belive what i am reading about your uncle... in 12 years he worked with the most reputable schools/hospitals in the country.... good for you... you have very good role models to look up to.
 
Originally posted by UBTom
)

Peter T. H. Wang, Division of Plastic Surgery

Peter Wang...
:laugh:

Thats a funny name with some nice credentials.
 
With a family full of dentists and physicians, 1) some gonzo-brainiac like my uncle is bound to bubble to the surface and 2) you betcha I got some good role models. :D
 
YAH-E...DUDE!! That's really cool. See I didn't know that. But dang, you'll always be taking tests and being in school. Would you still be required to take the CSA? Because once you start doing MD things, that's a requirement of theirs (well at least starting 2004). MDs also have to renew their licensure every 7 years or so, no as an OMFS with plastic surgery background, are you subject to this too? Just curious, because I heard the ADA is kicking around the idea of re-licensing by exam, the new dental graduates (or existing ones too). So go the rumors.

P.S. I never question anyone's credentials or intelligence. I just ask questions on things that I'm not familiar with, so please don't take my posts pesonally. Everyone out there is equally qualified to do anything that they put their minds and hearts to.

P.S.S. Happy thanks giving everyone! Thanks YAH-E for the clarification. Sounds really good.
 
UBTom, you've got some big shoes to fill. I feel for you brother :)
 
Does anyone have any insight into whether any dental school will give you an advantage in applying to an oral surgery program? Is top 10% of class at Michigan and UPenn the same as top 10% at Virginia or Maryland?

I am thinking I would like to do Oral Surgery and get into academics. I just got accepted to dental school and have 8 more interviews in January but I don't know if I will go or not. I am trying to decide whether the extra money is worth it for a bigger name (for example UPenn or Michigan over Maryland or Virginia). Does anyone have any ideas or advice?
 
Shumba,

I know I will be flamed for this, so I will try to stay as objective as possible...no guarantees tho... :D

I dont think any schools out there "specialize" in producing specialists. It's just that certain schools are notorious for having a bunch of their graduates going into post graduate programs......ie: UConn, UCSF, Columbia, etc. My dean of schools mentioned that our last year graduating class had 70-80% of the students going into some form of speciality (this also includes AEGD and GPR). At my school, the instructors dont really push you into any particular specialities.....I guess it's based on personal preference. Take yourself for instance.......whether you go to school A or school B does not really matter since you already have your heart set on specializing.

I wouldnt go as far as saying that school A has more advantage as school B ..........granted if your NBDE grades kick ass, it really doesnt matter if you go to the crappiest dental school in the world.

Here's an analogy that's gonna get me in trouble.....but oh wells... I think of dental school as cars... A hyundai is a car that gets you where you wanna go. A ferrari is also another car that gets you where you wanna go. They both will get the job done. Yoiu wanna brag? Get the ferrari. You wanna be practical? Get the hyundai. A dentist is a dentist is a dentist...........although I dont think UBTom's uncle was thinking about the hyundai.....:p

just my 2 pennies worth.......
 
The school you come from matters, like it or not. 10th at one school is not the same as 10th at a more competitive school. Programs know this and it is a factor, granted not the only one. The national boards is given to try and normalize these differences, but it is not perfect. Additionally, some schools prepare you better to excell on the boards and hence place individuals more often in competitive programs. Whiling interviewing I was told that I made a very good decision by attending my school for omfs. Program directors also have direct experince with graduates/residents from various schools. And if a program has had particular succes with a schools graduates, they will be more apt to cont. and accept those candidates. Just my experince.
 
I suppose if two applicants have the same NBDE Part 1 scores and cumulative GPAs, but one applicant graduated from Harvard and the other graduated from Howard, the Harvard applicant would have a perk because (s)he graduated from Harvard.

Regardless, both of these applicants will match or at least end up as an OMS resident somewhere.

Although the dental school you've graduated from may look good on paper, it all really depends on you as an applicant to shine not only on dental grades, NBDE Part 1 scores and/or extracurriculars no matter where you did your Pre-doctoral dental education.
 
Originally posted by Doggie


I dont think any schools out there "specialize" in producing specialists.

I'd say the ONE exception to this is Harvard. If you have ANY doubts about doing a specialty, then Harvard very well might not be the school for you. I think nearly all the students go on to specialties, and their pre-doctoral training gears them for that. It simply does an exceptional job of THAT, although Harvard may be lacking in other areas.

Harvard doesn't just have a good junk or majority of students going on to specialize, it has ALL students going on to specialize.
 
I appreciate all of your replies. I still feel a little lost as to how to decide on a dental school. Maybe I can draw names out of a hat...

I wonder if that is what UBTom's uncle did... UPenn, Harvard, Columbia... right. There is a guy who's not messing around.
 
I agree with Gavin on the Harvard thing.

Penn, Michigan, Maryland, Virginia? As far as specializing goes, the only reason I can see choosing one over the other is if any of those schools were strictly Pass/Fail and has no rank. However, I don't think any of those 4 are. Penn, I've been told, ranks the top 10 only, anyone beyond that doesn't know their rank (please correct me if I have it all wrong). That would suck for a candidate like me who is right outside #10. When there is a class rank available to programs, my feeling is that it all comes down to numbers. #45 from Penn just doesn't stand a chance against #3 from Maryland in an OMS application pool. You're gonna have to come out of the top at any one of these schools to have a guaranteed shot.

Shumba, no matter which school you pick, if you are remotely thinking about Oral Surgery, you need to aim for your best at any of those four schools. You are going to meet smart people and tough competition at all of those schools, you won't know how you stand till you get there. You can't predict it now. If you know you want OMS from day one, then do everything you need to make it happen for you, starting with earning competitive grades and 90+ on the boards. If you are serious about doing an OMS/PhD (to pursue the true academic route), I would be in contact with research heavy OMS departments to find out more about this route. Combined specialty/PhD candidates are short supply in every discipline, so if you are serious and let the programs know early on, they will be more apt to entertain your application in 4th year b/c they'll know your passion for it is true (assuming you meet the other criteria). I don't know enough about OMS to suggest any programs that are research focused, maybe the others here can help you with that one. In the work I've done for ASDA, I did interview an OMS/MD/PhD candidate for ASDA News one year who was at Boston University.

How do we know which schools are the more competitive ones? Is my school, Buffalo, more or less competitive than Nova? From what Yah-E posts about his class at Nova, I think I'd have just as tough a time trying to rank on top if I had attened Nova instead of Buffalo. I think Yah-E gave a great example. Both #1 from Harvard and Howard are gonna match if they have identical credentials. That #1 from any school will carry you far in the specialty game.
 
Hey people, been reading this thread for some time. I'm currently in my second year of omfs. Its a six year program, so I'm currently a 3rd year med student. Any questions you might have about any aspect of anything ask away. I'll try to help in any way I can.
 
Bitters:

Welcome and thanks for posting! So, is Medical school easier than dental school? Where are you doing your residency? Many questions, but those will do for now.

Andy
 
Ah the eternal question between dental and medical students. Which one is more difficult? I have to qualify my response by the fact that I only have to do years 3&4. Any being only part way through the third I only have a partial frame of reference.

I'll do my best to make some comparisons.

First, Tests. I guess my medical school career began by taking Step 1 of the USMLE. I would have to say the most difficult test I have had to take. Makes Part 1 of the dental boards feel like a weekly quiz. That being said, It is an extremely passable test. I was able to do well, by well means I passed comfortably. You must dedicate yourself to passing. I however feel that I probably would have done much better had I taken it right after my first two years of school. I have found that It is almost impossible to study as intensely as I did during the first two years of dental school. Being 2.5 years out of basic science courses makes reviewing and retaining info difficult. Would I have been in the same percentile as my dental board who knows, and for that matter who cares.

As far as school goes I find it difficult to answer the question. Its difficult to judge for several reasons. First, I have already completed a pgy 1 year of residency. The advantages of this are tremendous. By working for a year with medical residents and attendings, you develope relationships that can be extremely advantageous during school. For example, as a third year student you are the lowest member of the "team" loosely translated **** runs down hill. Hours wasted doing stuff that has no redeeming value. However, when a resident has worked with you and knows you they tend not to put you through the ringer that other students go through. Fair, probably not. This will translate into leaving a little early some days or not being asked to do crap on the floor.

That being said some things are difficult. Although dental and medical schools take the same classes for the most part, several big differences do exist. Medical management of patients was rarely touched upon in Dschool. It is here where the other students have an advantage. Upon starting residency, and to a lesser extent school it frequently happens that a specific test will be ordered. Sometimes my answer is wtf is that never heard of it. So time to research another test. This was part of the Med school curic during the first two years that I missed out. Not difficult to catch up, but it takes some work.

I've tried to give you some personal ideas/experience. But I guess the answer is that its really is impossible to tell.
What qualifies as easier? You have to work and learn in both. There are no free rides in either.

Biggest difference, as a ds3 you tend to have more responsibility then an ms3. You are the one responsible for the mgmt of your patient in a more direct way than an ms3. In ds there is no intern/junior resident/senior resident/attending that have your back.

I guess I've kind of rambled but rest assured compared to being on service working 100 hrs wk ms is a cake walk.
 
Bitters, welcome to SDN and thanks for your valuable and direct insights!

Keep the posts coming. I know there are many of us that are very interested in anything you have to post.
 
The way a few 6 year programs work are as follows

1st OMFS PGY1
2nd 3rd yr med school
3rd 4th year med school
4th Gen Surg also as PGY1
5th OMFS
6th OMFS

1 month of 3rd yr med school(2nd yr program) on OMFS
5 months of 4th yr med school(3rd yr program) on OMFS

A little confusing but I the year I was writing about was my first in the program

Can't tell you the number of times I've had to explain this to people in the hospital. There are a few rotations ER, Anesthesia that are in the first and fourth yrs.
 
Bitters & River13 and any other OMS bound peeps

Do you guys think it's worthwhile for an OMS wannabe like myself to even bother doing a 1 week externship during spring break? My impression is that 1 week is too short of time to know what the program is about..........also not enough time to kiss asses. :D

I only get one month off for the summer, but I am in the midst of applying for a summer externship that will take up the entire month. I tried to bargain with the dean of my school to give me an extra 2 weeks off to do another externship........alas, to no avail. :rolleyes:
 
I only did two weeks of externships officially and one of those weeks was during my spring break. If you are serious about investigating a program, an externship is an excellent way to learn about oms and the type and scope of training provided by that program. However if you are counting on an externship in providing you with an "in" to the program there is no guarantee. I have met many people who have done externships at programs that they really liked and were not invited back for interviews. I guess the risk of doing externships is that the program is also evaluating you too!
I did my externships at my own schools oms program eventhough I knew I was not allowed to apply to it because I was Canadian. But for me, it was an invaluable experience that made me appreciate and respect the oms specialty more and really helped me make up my mind that I wanted to be an oral surgeon.
Having gone on the interview circuit this year I'll tell you many applicants have done maybe 2 or 3 externships. River13 has good advice. See his previous posts.
 
First, try talking to the program with the 1 month externship. I talked to many people who did 2 wks at one of the schools which advertise 1 mont only.

Ideally you could do 2- 2wk externships for more exposure. Anything less than 2 wks just isn't enough. 2 wks is perfect and 1 month too long in my opinion. You can learn everyting you want and make a good impression in 2 wks.

If the 1 month program won't budge, and you really thing you'd like to go there, than just do it. I only did 1 externship. I don't thing this hurt me, though I also traveled overseas on dental missions in place. But, that being said, I wish I would have done more externships.
 
I agree with LUK and omfsapplicant---do as many 2 week externships as possible. If you only have 1 week during spring break, do one at your own school at your own OMS program (if your dental school has one). Its important to think about timing...this May you will be asking the program director at your OMS program for a letter of rec. to send with your PASS application (assuming you're D3 now). Spring break is a great time to work your tail off with his residents and prove to him you'd make a great addition. He'll then write a better letter for your application as well as better letters if you're planning summer externships. Much more impressive than if you just go to him having never externed/spent time with him.

Just another opinion. Decide what sounds best for you. A search on the subject will no doubt give more good/bad advice.
 
New member of the eternal pursuit of OMFS

Anybody interviewed at Case this year what do you think about it
 
Originally posted by Doggie:

"A recent conversation with an OMS resident informed me that the national rate of oms residents opting out of oral surgery and into some form of MD specialities is an alarming rate of 50%. Harvard, for example, has a very prestigious med school.......and most of the oms residents end up skipping out on oms.... Perhaps these individuals are truely the rejects of med school that wasted 4 years in dental schools. Of course this is frowned upon, but with the MD degree, they are free to do whatever they want."

Gentlemen,
I think the level of discourse on this message board should be elevated beyond just random speculation and spouting off statistics that are unsubstantiated. This quote from Doggie is an excellent example of people making random claims with no evidence or example to back them up...

You should be able to back up your "facts" with some kind of credible source.

For example, there is an article in the January 2004 issue of the Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery that deals with the outcomes of the Harvard Oral Surgery program. If you read the abstract and paper, you will find that the information provided in the quote above is gross hyperbole.

Check it out at PubMED:
PMID: 14699551

Dodson TB, Guralnick WC, Donoff RB, Kaban LB.
Massachusetts general hospital/Harvard medical school MD oral and maxillofacial surgery program: A 30-year review.
J Oral Maxillofac Surg. 2004 Jan;62(1):62-65.


Happy New Year!
AjM
 
Originally posted by Doggie on 10-31-2003
hehe.........of course my story was very anecdotal, as I have heard it from another resident from my school...... my point wasnt to rag on the harvard omfs residents...... my point was to rag on the ppl who skip out on omfs/dds into pure md stuff.....:laugh:
 
this article doesnt really back up my original statement.....oh well.....but it's still quite interesting.


Click on the smiley!
:D
 
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