Oregon BOP's take on the DEA forwarding issue

[Lnsean]

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Literally you right now:

https://i.imgur.com/MtRKT8e.png

LMAO why can't you answer a simple question? How are you able to tell people what they should or should not be doing when you, yourself, have no confidence in your own stance on the matter? LOL. So, again, are you transferring unfilled controls out in your practice right now? I mean Owl gave me an answer, I don't know why you are avoiding this.

 

[Lnsean]

What exam do you have?

.

med school exam

I am also curious what other laws have changed due to interpretations changing? I’m sure there must be some examples since you claim that’s the way laws work but I can’t think of an example where interpretation changed and that changed the ‘industry standard’. Usually a law gets pasted or removed and that’s what changes the industry standard. For example HIPAA

You should look that up and let me know. I really don't have time nor the interest. I think court rulings set precedences all the time as to how the judge/jury interprets the written words of law and how they are applied. In alot of cases, the wording of the law becomes less important than how it was applied or decided previously in other cases. That is too much work for me, if you are interested look it up and report back.

What I see in front of me is that pharmacy practice has changed as a result of this vagueness in the law. The DEA sees this and is okay with it.

So your buddy @CetiAlphaFive here spent hours arguing and telling people that it's okay to do the transfers and when I ask him if he's doing it....he refuses to say. This is why I said people have malicious intentions.; they tell you to do things that they themselves would not do.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

LMAO why can't you answer a simple question? How are you able to tell people what they should or should not be doing when you, yourself, have no confidence in your own stance on the matter? LOL. So, again, are you transferring unfilled controls out in your practice right now? I mean Owl gave me an answer, I don't know why you are avoiding this.

I also own magazines that hold over 8 rounds of ammunition.
That's illegal in nNe York.

Better call the cops.

 

[Lnsean]

I also own magazines that hold over 8 rounds of ammunition.
That's illegal in nNe York.

Better call the cops.

You have no credibility left. You spent hours arguing and telling people that it's okay to transfer these scripts, and when I ask if you're doing these transfers, you dodge the question at every turn. If you're not doing these transfers yourself, then you should not be telling people to do them. It's simply malicious and disingenuous and really speaks to your character.

 

[radio frequency]

I love that you just can't let it go. You are wrong, just accept it. The DEA has clarified that it is allowed and has always been allowed. Even this BOP is like "What's the issue? The DEA has said forwarding is fine so what's the problem?" (paraphrased)

Ironically I am registered in two states where the BoPs have publicly taken opposing stances on this issue based on the same statement by the DEA. I go by the stance of the state I more regularly practice in because I know they’ll be the ones to sanction me...so no transfers of unfilled controls.

 

[owlegrad]

med school exam

Good luck! I wasted so much time on this website when I should’ve been studying as a student LOL

 

[Lnsean]

Good luck! I wasted so much time on this website when I should’ve been studying as a student LOL

Thanks! LOL yea SDN is a time sink.

 

[Charcoales]

Yeah if

Ironically I am registered in two states where the BoPs have publicly taken opposing stances on this issue based on the same statement by the DEA. I go by the stance of the state I more regularly practice in because I know they’ll be the ones to sanction me...so no transfers of unfilled controls.

Has ur board ever sanctioned anyone? Is there link to proceedings?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

You have no credibility left. You spent hours arguing and telling people that it's okay to transfer these scripts, and when I ask if you're doing these transfers, you dodge the question at every turn. If you're not doing these transfers yourself, then you should not be telling people to do them. It's simply malicious and disingenuous and really speaks to your character.

Dear everyone, bird and non birds:


For three official record,


Everyone should be transferring literally every unfilled, on hold prescription they have.

It's not illegal and it's good for your health.

 

[Lnsean]

Dear everyone, bird and non birds:


For three official record,


Everyone should be transferring literally every unfilled, on hold prescription they have.

It's not illegal and it's good for your health.

Again, are YOU transferring unfilled controlled prescriptions out? I didn't ask what you think everyone should do. I asked what YOU are currently doing in your practice. Why is this so hard? Owl already gave me his answer.

For real, why the fuk are you telling people to do something that you're not doing yourself.

 

[radio frequency]

Yeah if

Has ur board ever sanctioned anyone? Is there link to proceedings?

Not sure about sanctions (but why would I put myself at that risk if we were made explicitly aware??). No proceedings link; we were informed via BoP email.

 

[BidingMyTime]

1. IF you choose to NOT DO THE TRANSFER, then you must accept that the request is not a legal request because the DEA does not allow such transfers.

Well, as already has been said, many people don't transfer because it is against their corporate policy. There are all kinds of corporate policies that exist, not for any legal reason, but because the corporation thinks it is in the best interest of their corporation. And, not saying this is the case with you, but I'm sure we all know people who think something is "the law", just because it is an individual workplace regulation.

2. IF you DO THE TRANSFER, then you are accepting that it is a legal transfer and continue to take on this interpretation.

Now you are assuming the pharmacists never break the law. A pharmacist might very well decide to do such a transfer one time, even if they thought it was illegal.

Whichever one you choose, there is NO SCENARIO where you can REJECT THE TRANSFER and also say that it's a legal request otherwise you are breaking another regulation by not complying to another pharmacy's legal request.

OK, are you referring to laws that a pharmacy can't refuse to transfer to another pharmacy? I could be wrong, but I'm fairly saw these type of laws are state laws, in which case, whether or not he's breaking the law by refusing a transfer depends on what state he is in.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Again, are YOU transferring unfilled controlled prescriptions out? I didn't ask what you think everyone should do. I asked what YOU are currently doing in your practice. Why is this so hard? Owl already gave me his answer.

For real, why the fuk are you telling people to do something that you're not doing yourself.

Hear ye, hear he,

Man, bird, wifman,

LnSean transferred me 4 controlled on hold prescriptions from his LES pharmacy called "Gimme da droigs, chief" just this morning.

This is now officially on the bird record and he is skittish about it.
On the record.

 

[Charcoales]

We can all agree tho that if rphs had their way we'd keep the one-time transfer rule and remove the distinction between filled/unfilled correct?

 

[Lnsean]

Hear ye, hear he,

Man, bird, wifman,

LnSean transferred me 4 controlled on hold prescriptions from his LES pharmacy called "Gimme da droigs, chief" just this morning.

This is now officially on the bird record and he is skittish about it.
On the record.

If you are not doing these transfers then you should not be advising others to do them. You have malicious intent and you're garbage.

 

[Lnsean]

Well, as already has been said, many people don't transfer because it is against their corporate policy. There are all kinds of corporate policies that exist, not for any legal reason, but because the corporation thinks it is in the best interest of their corporation. And, not saying this is the case with you, but I'm sure we all know people who think something is "the law", just because it is an individual workplace regulation.



Now you are assuming the pharmacists never break the law. A pharmacist might very well decide to do such a transfer one time, even if they thought it was illegal.



OK, are you referring to laws that a pharmacy can't refuse to transfer to another pharmacy? I could be wrong, but I'm fairly saw these type of laws are state laws, in which case, whether or not he's breaking the law by refusing a transfer depends on what state he is in.

I agree with parts of that. Although I'm sure every state, you have to comply to the request. I could be wrong though.

The problem here is we have people that are advising others to do these transfers when they themselves are not doing them.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I'll add one more thing. People are saying you should do these transfers because the law states you can. So if you DON'T work for a company that says you can't, then you should be transferring. If you work for a company that says you can't, do not risk your job.

Seems simple to me. Once again there is no point in responding to me.

Proceed with the pointless argument.

 

[owlegrad]

I agree with parts of that. The problem here is we have people that are advising others to do these transfers when they themselves are not doing them.

That’s actually not a problem. I advise women to get mammograms but I myself do not get them. It’s not malicious to suggest people should do what they should do.

Other again I’m not suggesting that people should do the transfers I’m just suggesting they should know whether or not it’s legal to do them.

 

[Lnsean]

That’s actually not a problem. I advise women to get mammograms but I myself do not get them. It’s not malicious to suggest people should do what they should do.

Other again I’m not suggesting that people should do the transfers I’m just suggesting they should know whether or not it’s legal to do them.

What about misquoting DEA regulations and leaving parts of it out? Like just to try to be right? Come on, I thought you are more mature than that. Lmao.

 

[owlegrad]

I'll add one more thing. People are saying you should do these transfers because the law states you can. So if you DON'T work for a company that says you can't, then you should be transferring. If you work for a company that says you can't, do not risk your job.

Seems simple to me. Once again there is no point in responding to me.

Proceed with the pointless argument.

I agree with this completely. Lnsean seems stuck on the idea that transfers are compulsory and therefor you have to pick which law to break if you follow company policy.

I will say it would suck to be in that position.

 

[owlegrad]

What about misquoting DEA regulations and leaving parts of it out? Like just to try to be right? Come on, I thought you are more mature than that. Lmao.

I am impressed by your ability to defame my character relentlessly but again I wasn’t being dishonest. I just paired down my quote to make it simple enough for you to understand. I am sorry you still can’t get it.

The DEA response in the federal designated does not include the phrase “for the purposes for refills”, so it doesn’t apply to their answer whatsoever. But I don’t expect you to understand that and you make feel free to continue to think I am dishonest scum LOL

 

[Lnsean]

I am impressed by your ability to defame my character relentlessly but again I wasn’t being dishonest. I just paired down my quote to make it simple enough for you to understand. I am sorry you still can’t get it.

The DEA response in the federal designated does not include the phrase “for the purposes for refills”, so it doesn’t apply to their answer whatsoever. But I don’t expect you to understand that and you make feel free to continue to think I am dishonest scum LOL

§1306.25 Transfer between pharmacies of prescription information for Schedules III, IV, and V controlled substances for refill purposes.
(a) The transfer of original prescription information for a controlled substance listed in Schedule III, IV, or V for the purpose of refill dispensing is permissible between pharmacies on a one-time basis only. However, pharmacies electronically sharing a real-time, online database may transfer up to the maximum refills permitted by law and the prescriber's authorization.

It's there in black and white. The part you always leave out. Also, the response is specific in using "forwarding" and electronic scripts. I think you conveniently left both of that out.

Bro, you can go back to the other thread and look through what you quoted and what I had to do to correct you. You basically left out "electronic prescriptions" I had to go back multiple times to copy and paste the whole paragraph from the DEA regulations handbook. You left out words like "FOR REFILLING PURPOSE" and stuff like that. Just to try to be right.

And what does having a mammogram do with this debate?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

If you are not doing these transfers then you should not be advising others to do them. You have malicious intent and you're garbage.

I also transfer bird garbage, on the record.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

@Lnsean

Is it illegal for dentists to treat asleep apnea?

 

[Lnsean]

@Lnsean

Is it illegal for dentists to treat asleep apnea?

Nah, I just find it funny that you're too scared to admit what you're doing in your current practice. I mean you spent hours on here arguing how everyone should be doing them but when it comes to you...lol

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Nah

You think it's legal for dentists to treat sleep apnea?

 

[Lnsean]

You think it's legal for dentists to treat sleep apnea?

You're not doing these transfers, so why are you telling others to do them?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

You're not doing these transfers, so why are you telling others to do them?

I'm telling dentists to treat sleep apnea?

 

[Lnsean]

I'm telling dentists to treat sleep apnea?

You're not doing these transfers, so why are you telling others to do them? I'm really curious about that.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

You're not doing these transfers, so why are you telling others to do them? I'm really curious about that.

You should be curious why a board of pharmacy is telling people to do them, you dunce, but you lack that level of critical thinking or self awareness

 

[Lnsean]

You should be curious why a board of pharmacy is telling people to do them, you dunce, but you lack that level of critical thinking or self awareness

There are boards that are telling people not to do them as mentioned by the other user. YOU should be curious as to why that is also. See how easy I flipped that back at you?

I am more curious as to why you are not doing these transfers but are advising people to do them. I want to see what the thinking behind that is.

 

[radio frequency]

To be totally transparent, one of the BoPs where I am registered (based on the DEA statement/clarification they recently released) claims you CAN do a transfer after filling one time. They also state you can “forward” an unfilled control, but clarify that this is different than a transfer and must be done via an e prescribing system and so you can only do that if your pharmacy has that specific capability. Which we don’t yet have...

 

[Lnsean]

To be totally transparent, one of the BoPs where I am registered (based on the DEA statement/clarification they recently released) claims you CAN do a transfer after filling one time. They also state you can “forward” an unfilled control, but clarify that this is different than a transfer and must be done via an e prescribing system and so you can only do that if your pharmacy has that specific capability. Which we don’t yet have...

Thank you so much for posting this and clarifying it. Some people in here insisted that "forwarding" was the same thing as "transferring" even when the DEA response specifically mentioned that it was only for "electronic prescriptions." This person thinks that he is the authority on interpreting DEA laws and was telling people that it's legal because forwarding and transfer are the same thing. Like, why would the DEA use a totally different word from the regular verbiage to have it mean the same thing?

To be totally transparent, one of the BoPs where I am registered (based on the DEA statement/clarification they recently released) claims you CAN do a transfer after filling one time.

Exactly this. This means that the transfer is ONLY for refill dispensing. That was the exact wording on the DEA website.

Thank you again.

The main problem I have with this thread and the older thread is that we have the same people that are telling people that it's okay to do these transfers when they themselves are not doing the transfers. One guy doesn't even work in retail but pretends to be an expert on this.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

There are boards that are telling people not to do them as mentioned by the other user. YOU should be curious as to why that is also. See how easy I flipped that back at you?

I am more curious as to why you are not doing these transfers but are advising people to do them. I want to see what the thinking behind that is.

You're on the brink of that thing called critical thinking.

What your brain should've thought was,
"Hhheeeyyyy, if even the boards of pharmacy can't agree on this, why am I acting like such an dingus online about it?

Could it be that it's not such a clear cut issue?

Could it be that there are many factors at play?"

As the preeminent bird lawyer, you should've noticed my use of "a board" and not "all boards"

I believe the legal term for recognizing the difference is called "notus being a huge dumbsssus"

 

[Lnsean]

You're on the brink of that thing called critical thinking.

What your brain should've thought was,
"Hhheeeyyyy, if even the boards of pharmacy can't agree on this, why am I acting like such an dingus online about it?

Could it be that it's not such a clear cut issue?

Could it be that there are many factors at play?"

As the preeminent bird lawyer, you should've noticed my use of "a board" and not "all boards"

I believe the legal term for recognizing the difference is called "notus being a huge dumbsssus"

We actually don't need you anymore. There's another poster @radio frequency that has basically clarified everything that I have said. Throughout this whole thread, you have been a clown, and I could look past that, but then I don't get why you would try to sabotage your own colleagues by spreading misinformation and telling them to do these transfers when you obviously don't do them yourself. You're garbage and scum.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

We actually don't need you anymore. There's another poster @radio frequency that has basically clarified everything that I have said. Throughout this whole thread, you have been a clown, and I could look past that, but then I don't get why you would try to sabotage your own colleagues by spreading misinformation and telling them to do these transfers when you obviously don't do them yourself. You're garbage and scum.

Is it ok to tell people in Oregon to do them?

I think the problem is that you think everyone else is like you, incapable of figuring things out for themselves.

Is that why you're so upset?

You need direction from smart people and you're upset that we almost tricked you into disobeying your corporate masters?

PS:
Think about me the next time you go into work before the sun comes up and you leave after it goes down, btw.

This garbage has a schedule you can only dream of, and makes way more than you.

 

[Lnsean]

Is it ok to tell people in Oregon to do them?

I think the problem is that you think everyone else is like you, incapable of figuring things out for themselves.

Is that why you're so upset?

You need direction from smart people and you're upset that we almost tricked you into disobeying your corporate masters?

PS:
Think about me the next time you go into work before the sun comes up and you leave after it goes down, btw.

This garbage has a schedule you can only dream of, and makes way more than you.

Bro, don't make this about me. This has nothing to do with me...lol. It's all you dawg. All I did was told people to err on the safe side. I mean you're the one that is trying to sabotage your colleagues. So yea, you shouldn't tell the people in Oregon anything; I think you've done enough "advising." We've already established what kind of person you are.

This garbage has a schedule you can only dream of, and makes way more than you.

Lol..what are you like 5? I know how much pharmacists make, and at the end of the day, you're still just a regular worker bee like most people. The garbage comment was more directed towards your character, not your income, so you can relax and stop being so insecure.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Bro, don't make this about me. This has nothing to do with me...lol. It's all you dawg. All I did was told people to err on the safe side. I mean you're the one that is trying to sabotage your colleagues. So yea, you shouldn't tell the people in Oregon anything; I think you've done enough "advising." We've already established what kind of person you are.




Lol..what are you like 5? I know how much pharmacists make, and at the end of the day, you're still just a regular worker bee like most people. The garbage comment was more directed towards your character, not your income, so you can relax and stop being so insecure.

You know what corporate drones make.
I'm also not just a worker bee. There's a reason I know the people involved in this fiasco and you don't.

If you're going to make a personal statement, you should probably not be a bottom of the barrel pharmacist that somehow thinks they're gonna hack it as an MD

Is that on the bird record?

Can I tell non bird pharmacists to do the transfers?

 

[Lnsean]

You know what corporate drones make.
I'm also not just a worker bee. There's a reason I know the people involved in this fiasco and you don't.

If you're going to make a personal statement, you should probably not be a bottom of the barrel pharmacist that somehow thinks they're gonna hack it as an MD

Is that on the bird record?

Can I tell non bird pharmacists to do the transfers?

LMAO..you're so cute when you're defensive and feeling inadequate. Someone that has to bring out their job title isn't probably making much or doing anything important really. Save yourself some breath next time, no one is impressed here.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

LMAO..you're so cute when you're defensive and feeling inadequate. Someone that has to bring out their job title isn't probably making much or doing anything important really. Save yourself some breath next time, no one is impressed here.

I think u might b projecting, frend, if you're mistaking arrogance for inadequacy.
Maybe you're more familiar with it.
Does your height start with 5? That might explain it.

I'm honestly curious tho:

Why are you changing careers?

Transferred too many birdscriptions for birdtrolled substances?

 

[Lnsean]

I'm honestly curious tho:

Why are you changing careers?

I always wanted to pursue it, but due to other personal circumstances, could not back then. Love the diagnosis aspect of it and piecing the puzzle together; it's stimulating to me. A lot of people hated clinicals in pharmacy, but I enjoyed it a lot. Now, I have a bit more money and obligations fulfilled...I want to pursue what makes me happy.

 

[owlegrad]

I'm honestly curious tho:

Why are you changing careers?

I think he will make a great doctor. He already has the "looking down on and speaking down to pharmacists" part on lock.

I am not going to be put in the position of defending myself from a "when did I stop beating my wife" line of thinking. I will let people read my posts for themselves and deciding if I was duplicitous or dishonest in any way. Unlike lnsean I actually like people to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

The DEA response published in the federal register was for all controlled prescriptions by the way not just electronic scripts. Once again I am convinced that lnsean hasn't read that issue of the federal register or perhaps is unable to understand it if he has read it.

 

[owlegrad]

To be totally transparent, one of the BoPs where I am registered (based on the DEA statement/clarification they recently released) claims you CAN do a transfer after filling one time. They also state you can “forward” an unfilled control, but clarify that this is different than a transfer and must be done via an e prescribing system and so you can only do that if your pharmacy has that specific capability. Which we don’t yet have...

I do not mean for this to sound disrespectful but what recent DEA statement/clarification? The most recent comments I found were from like 2012 (I think that was when that issue of the federal register came out). If there are more recent updates on this I would love to see them, do you have a link?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I think he will make a great doctor. He already has the "looking down on and speaking down to pharmacists" part on lock.
I am not going to be put in the position of defending myself from a "when did I stop beating my wife" line of thinking. I will let people read my posts for themselves and deciding if I was duplicitous or dishonest in any way. Unlike lnsean I actually like people to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

The DEA response published in the federal register was for all controlled prescriptions by the way not just electronic scripts. Once again I am convinced that lnsean hasn't read that issue of the federal register or perhaps is unable to understand it if he has read it.

I think he is incapable of that kind of critical thinking or analysis

 

[radio frequency]

I do not mean for this to sound disrespectful but what recent DEA statement/clarification? The most recent comments I found were from like 2012 (I think that was when that issue of the federal register came out). If there are more recent updates on this I would love to see them, do you have a link?

It’s based on this memo: http://www.pharmacy.ohio.gov/Docume...filled Controlled Substance Prescriptions.pdf

I think each individual board has clarified it slightly differently...

 

[owlegrad]

It’s based on this memo: http://www.pharmacy.ohio.gov/Documents/Pubs/Special/ControlledSubstances/Clarification on Transfer of Unfilled Controlled Substance Prescriptions.pdf

I think each individual board has clarified it slightly differently...

Thanks, I had not seen that. Or if I had, I forgot. 😆

I love two parts the most. The part where the NABP totes it's own horn for it's excellent working relationship with the DEA and ability to get this awesome communication (which states nothing more than what was already known) is pretty awesome. The next best part is where she says (and I will quote it completely lest I be considered dishonest): "Although the DEA received several inquiries regarding this issue earlier in the year, these have now ceased."

I guess they consider the matter fully clarified since all the requests for clarification have apparently ceased?! LMAO


I don't think my board (FL) has clarified yet or if they have, I didn't see it.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

It’s based on this memo: http://www.pharmacy.ohio.gov/Documents/Pubs/Special/ControlledSubstances/Clarification on Transfer of Unfilled Controlled Substance Prescriptions.pdf

I think each individual board has clarified it slightly differently...

It's very clear that something is wrong with this issue.
Can anyone name any other issue / regulation with so many different interpretations?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Thanks, I had not seen that. Or if I had, I forgot. 😆
I love two parts the most. The part where the NABP totes it's own horn for it's excellent working relationship with the DEA and ability to get this awesome communication (which states nothing more than what was already known) is pretty awesome. The next best part is where she says (and I will quote it completely lest I be considered dishonest): "Although the DEA received several inquiries regarding this issue earlier in the year, these have now ceased."
I guess they consider the matter fully clarified since all the requests for clarification have apparently ceased?! LMAO
I don't think my board (FL) has clarified yet or if they have, I didn't see it.

I think one of Gay Dodson's final acts was to prevent her long time personal friend at Walmart from getting totally embarrassed by making Wal-Mart's policy a TSBP rule.

When they finally made the decision, I asked how they could've possibly come to that conclusion with all of the letters and opinions they'd received from myself and several prominent Texas pharmacists.

I got the equivalent of a verbal shrug

 

[radio frequency]

Thanks, I had not seen that. Or if I had, I forgot. 😆

I love two parts the most. The part where the NABP totes it's own horn for it's excellent working relationship with the DEA and ability to get this awesome communication (which states nothing more than what was already known) is pretty awesome. The next best part is where she says (and I will quote it completely lest I be considered dishonest): "Although the DEA received several inquiries regarding this issue earlier in the year, these have now ceased."

I guess they consider the matter fully clarified since all the requests for clarification have apparently ceased?! LMAO


I don't think my board (FL) has clarified yet or if they have, I didn't see it.

Yep. Clear as mud! But to be fair, Loren is likely male. Lauren would be female.

 

[Lnsean]

Unlike lnsean I actually like people to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

This gives you an excuse to misquote the DEA and misrepresent data? No. Like, how does that excuse you from the fact that you intentionally try to mislead them? Just because you weren't successful doesn't absolve you from the responsibility. You tried to explain that "forward" was the same as "transfer" when the DEA's language didn't fit your argument. You tried to quote certain parts of the DEA handbook and intentionally leave out parts that didn't agree. You were intentionally trying to mislead people just to win an argument.

The DEA response published in the federal register was for all controlled prescriptions by the way not just electronic scripts. Once again I am convinced that lnsean hasn't read that issue of the federal register or perhaps is unable to understand it if he has read it.

The register says nothing you are claiming. You should quote it again with a link so we all can take a look at it again. Then I will compare it to some of the laughable "gems" you posted in the other thread.