Organic Chem: A weeder course?

[sweetcalie08]

Hey guys, I know I've posted my concerns about ochem many-a-times, but I just wanted to know if organic chemistry is mostly a weeder course (like my boss says- he also says physics is a weeder). I'm doing decently enough, still pulling my B, although the final might change that, unfortunately with all the fun synthesis reactions we're doing now. Anyway, while I still hope to get a decent grade in the course, I'm worried that I'm still not understanding this stuff enough to succeed in pharmacy school (after all, our last exam average was 55% so obviously the curve has to be kinda nice). Just curious, thanks.

BTW, how many of you absolutely loved ochem? I think it's tolerable, but definitely not fun like anatomy/physiology/microbiology are. Am I in trouble if I don't particularly like ochem?

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[jdpharmd?]

There are plenty of (insert professional here) who fail (insert course here). There are engineers who fail calc, Doctors who failed anatomy, pharmacists who failed chem, etc. The important part is getting accepted, but I promise you that you'll see orgo again. ("failing" doens't really mean failing in the true sense of the word... more like "getting a C")

 

[emogrrrrl]

BTW, how many of you absolutely loved ochem? I think it's tolerable, but definitely not fun like anatomy/physiology/microbiology are. Am I in trouble if I don't particularly like ochem?

I love ochem!

 

[sweetcalie08]

The important part is getting accepted, but I promise you that you'll see orgo again.

I suppose you mean I'll see complex ochem synthesis rxns and stuff a bunch more? Great...guess I'll grin and bear? I LOVE the basic ochem concepts, but now that we're into the synthesis reactions, my opinion of the course has been on the downswing (and I hear ochem2 is PURE synthesis, etc!!). I guess my main concern is if I'll get bored/burnt out/etc if I'm not enjoying ochem. Just wondering if a lack of interest/enthusiasm for ochem means a potential lack of enthusiasm for pharmacy? And, I thought I enjoyed the field...even having experience in it and all. Maybe I should've gone with my original career that I thought up in middle school (physical therapy)...after all, sometimes the first decision is the best! Haha. Oh well...job market and variety of topics in pharmacy are much better than the former. Learning about disease of the ENTIRE body instead of just a few body systems is more interesting I think. *sigh* Whoops, sorry for the long post. Here's to me for my final in 2 weeks--->

 

[28657]

In a way O-chem is a weeder course. It's supposed to represent the level of difficulty you might experience in med school/pharm school/whatever. That being said, if you can't manage to get in the upper (or even middle) part of your class' curve, it says something to adcoms. My O-chem class was really challenging and many times the averages were in the 60's - 70's, thank god for the curve!
I don't know how many of us, who are in pharmacy school, have taken med chem yet - I haven't. So I don't really know if it's going to involve a lot of O-chem. So all I can say is - that SO FAR, nothing's involved O-chem.

(Except for the dreaded 80 point O-chem refresher exam given our second week of school....good luck to all you incoming CPGers )

 

[ooscubaoo]

i'm not sure at your school, but i think most of my first and 2nd year courses are weeder courses. during my freshman year, there were about 1500 bio students. now that i'm reaching the end of my 2nd year, there's about 800 students taking bio courses.

i think biology courses are much more competitive than organic chemistry classes.

 

[LabBrat04]

I'm with emogrrrl, I really liked ochem. But then again, I had really great professors that made the class enjoyable. Best of luck to you...

 

[pharmaz88]

(Except for the dreaded 80 point O-chem refresher exam given our second week of school....good luck to all you incoming CPGers )

So, do you wanna' sell your copy of that exam? j/k

 

[Caverject]

In a way O-chem is a weeder course. It's supposed to represent the level of difficulty you might experience in med school/pharm school/whatever. That being said, if you can't manage to get in the upper (or even middle) part of your class' curve, it says something to adcoms. My O-chem class was really challenging and many times the averages were in the 60's - 70's, thank god for the curve!
I don't know how many of us, who are in pharmacy school, have taken med chem yet - I haven't. So I don't really know if it's going to involve a lot of O-chem. So all I can say is - that SO FAR, nothing's involved O-chem.

(Except for the dreaded 80 point O-chem refresher exam given our second week of school....good luck to all you incoming CPGers )

Yeah, you will use Orgo in Medicinal Chem. If you got a good grasp on the material now, then you should be set for it in pharmacy school. Im so glad I had as hard of teacher as I did because I understand everything going on in class where as my classmates have the WTF expression on their faces! lol

 

[dgroulx]

I've had two semesters of basic med chem and there is some organic. There are not any synthesis problems, but you will need to understand concepts and be able to learn new mechanisms. The closest thing to synthesis are problems where you are given a drug molecule, then have to figure out what it looks like in it's active form, what the metabolites will look like, etc.

I think organic was way harder and it was definitely a weed out course.

 

[sweetcalie08]

How about...are there any clinical or hospital pharmacists out there? How much is ochem really used in practice (in these settings-of course it's not really used in retail)?

 

[Nuel]

I never considered organic a weeder course. It was probably the most logical science, apart from math, that I have had to take. Just learn the mechanisms very well and take note of key principles and MEMORIZE some reactions. Even in math you have to memorize, but compared to biology, organic chemistry requires more of understanding than ability to memorize meaningless info.

 

[jdpharmd?]

How about...are there any clinical or hospital pharmacists out there? How much is ochem really used in practice (in these settings-of course it's not really used in retail)?

I'm not too sure why you would think that a hospital pharmacist would use ochem much differently than a retail pharmacist. I can see pharmacists in industry using it a little differently, but I assure you that retail pharmacists don't sit there eating sugar-daddys all day long while hospital pharmacists are saving the world and developing cures for cancer via organic chemistry.

Like everyone else has said, get through orgo with a good grade for the adcoms and in order to pass med chem, but don't think that you're destined for a life of SN2 reactions every day at work. I think every profession/major has its own horrible required class(es). Personally, I wasn't too keen on stats. Orgo was ok, but I really started "liking" it once I finished and passed.

 

[pharmel]

(Except for the dreaded 80 point O-chem refresher exam given our second week of school....good luck to all you incoming CPGers )

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[28657]

So, do you wanna' sell your copy of that exam? j/k

Well I do need the money, but crap, they don't give us our old exams!

 

[spacecowgirl]

I'm not too sure why you would think that a hospital pharmacist would use ochem much differently than a retail pharmacist. I can see pharmacists in industry using it a little differently, but I assure you that retail pharmacists don't sit there eating sugar-daddys all day long while hospital pharmacists are saving the world and developing cures for cancer via organic chemistry.

LMAO! It was just the other day that the staff pharmacists at my hospital were discussing the solubility of meperidine at a physiological pH., then they got our their ball and stick models to discuss the various resonance forms.....JUST KIDDING!!!!!! Organic is used in understanding how drugs work (you'll use it later in Med chem) but other than that, I don't know how it will come into play in your daily work as a pharmacist.

And for those of you that like o-chem, I have but one word: weirdos! *running away*

 

[jdpharmd?]

LMAO! It was just the other day that the staff pharmacists at my hospital were discussing the solubility of meperidine at a physiological pH., they they got our their ball and stick models to discuss the various resonance forms.....JUST KIDDING!!!!!!

That reminds me of a good story. During my undergrad, I worked as a tech in a retail pharmacy. I was filling in at a store that I had never been to before one day. When I couldn't remember the brand name of propoxyphene/acetaminophen, I grabbed the pharmacist's attention and asked "What is propoxyphene?". I just wanted to know the brand name so that I could put it back on the shelf in the right spot, but he proceeded to grab a piece of paper and a pencil and draw a little something like this:

It was a little embarrassing to explain that I just needed the brand name. I didn't even know what it was used for. I think that pharmacist ended up going back to get his PhD in Med Chem.

 

[ooscubaoo]

is physics 10X harder than o chem? i'm finishing my o chem series this quarter, and from what i heard physics is much harder to grasp. i would consider physics a weeder course, even though i havent taken it yet.

 

[Mr Reddly]

There are engineers who fail calc

I only have 2 Cs on my transcript (both from second sem of Freshman year).
The first was calc.
The second was a digital logic course.
And I'm and electrical engineer!


It's not that physics and O-chem are weeders. It more that they aren't bio type memorization classes. That makes it difficult/different for some. It's like me taking an English course with english majors.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I don't think you can compare physics and organic. I found physics to be rather easy (lots of logic and math) whereas to me organic seemed to be ruled by laws of magical reactions with no explanation I guess it just depends where your strengths lie.

I was an English/Psych grad - can't you tell by most eloquent writing in posts?

 

[spacecowgirl]

That reminds me of a good story. During my undergrad, I worked as a tech in a retail pharmacy. I was filling in at a store that I had never been to before one day. When I couldn't remember the brand name of propoxyphene/acetaminophen, I grabbed the pharmacist's attention and asked "What is propoxyphene?". I just wanted to know the brand name so that I could put it back on the shelf in the right spot, but he proceeded to grab a piece of paper and a pencil and draw a little something like this:

It was a little embarrassing to explain that I just needed the brand name. I didn't even know what it was used for. I think that pharmacist ended up going back to get his PhD in Med Chem.

That is so funny. Did he point out how it could be N-demethylated in a Phase I reaction? Just remember DARVOCET that's all you and the patients need to know. He was definitely missing his calling by being a retail pharmacist!

 

[pharmel]

is physics 10X harder than o chem? i'm finishing my o chem series this quarter, and from what i heard physics is much harder to grasp. i would consider physics a weeder course, even though i havent taken it yet.

I found second semester physics easier than first semester. In second semester the math is straight forward (plug and chug) and the concepts are interesting (mirrors, lenses, magnatism). First semester you have to derive your equations from free body diagrams and F=Ma. I found that very difficult! I agree that physics and ochem can't be compared. They are two different beasts. I am taking both right now and my favorite, by far is ochem! I have a 96% in ochem and an 87% in physics (going into finals). Wish me luck!

 

[sweetcalie08]

To all of you getting super awesome grades in most classes (esp ochem!!), are you able to be involved in EC's as well? Sometimes I feel my 'over-involvement' is comprimising my grades...I should probably quit a couple things, huh? Volunteering, peer health educator, pharm tech, etc...

Good luck on finals everyone!

 

[MNnaloxone]

Mind you that I took both OChems when I was stuck on getting a job in Biotech and hadn't even considered pharmacy, but...

Took OChem I, got a B.
Then took OChem II, withdrew halfway through because it bored me, 7AM was too early after a night of drinking, and I was getting a solid 'D'.
Took OChem II that following summer. Any other time my scores would have passed me due to curve. However, I took the class with a bunch of pre-pharms looking for a GPA inprovement. No curve, and I withdrew two days before the final with a low C.
Took OChem II the following spring. Still drank. Probably partied more than the first time around. Now thinking about PharmD. Got a solid B. The difference? Three seperate teachers, and only one really got the material across so that I cared about it.

I wouldn't equate lack of interest in OChem with lack of interest/ability in pharmacy. I'm about as disinterested in OChem as they come, and look where it got me (matched with my 1st choice residency...)

I also agree with the poster that mentioned multiple weeders. 100-level Bio, A&P, and Organic are all weeders for our biological sciences/pharmacy. Not uncommon for 1/3 of the class to not be around to take the final in any of these classes.

 

[goheel]

wow, you can withdraw 2 days before the final? At my school, you couldn't do that. I think the latest date to withdraw at my school is something like half way through the semester.

 

[sweetcalie08]

I wouldn't equate lack of interest in OChem with lack of interest/ability in pharmacy. I'm about as disinterested in OChem as they come, and look where it got me (matched with my 1st choice residency...)

Once again, thanks for relieving my fears a bit! I do like my job in pharmacy (even retail-gasp!) and I can totally see myself in the field. Hopefully my decent (yet not stellar) grades will get me by, since I do have extreme desire and motivation to be a successful pharmacist.

This will be me tomorrow seeing the grade distribution for our last exam--> It was a major killer I almost just had to laugh (since it was going to be my lowest dropped exam score). I'll need one of these for the final--> hehe.

Thanks!

 

[spacecowgirl]

I wouldn't equate lack of interest in OChem with lack of interest/ability in pharmacy. I'm about as disinterested in OChem as they come, and look where it got me (matched with my 1st choice residency...)

I definitely agree with this. There are few people who like or do exceptionally well in organic - but they go on to make great pharms/docs/chemists. Hell, my dad got a C in organic and he's an organic chemist and has been for 27 years - he's a big cheese in his lab!

So do the best you can do, but don't let it think it's an indicator of your future sucesses. Maybe it's considered a "weeder" course because only some people are willing to stick it out regardless of whether they received an A or a C, know what I mean? Some people run away at the first sign of a challenge, maybe that's who they're weeding out, not the people that do try hard but just don't make As.

 

[sweetcalie08]

Oh, I forgot to mention on that last midterm... 55% failed and the average was an F. Major suxors. Also, remember I need to get a B or higher in this class...less than 1/4 of my class got an A or B on this exam. Jeesh.

 

[28657]

Oh, I forgot to mention on that last midterm... 55% failed and the average was an F. Major suxors. Also, remember I need to get a B or higher in this class...less than 1/4 of my class got an A or B on this exam. Jeesh.

Sweetcalie08 (aka pharmtech77) I don't think any of us have forgotten you need a B! You told us 55% failed the midterm, 25% got an A/B on the last exam.....but what have you scored so far? Nothing's impossible; I got a better grade in O-chem II versus O-chem I because I finally realized how to study for the tests. Good luck.

And, hey, I stand by my quote....it helps to have a good attitude about studying for something that seems impossible. If you think you can get a B, I'm sure you'll do it.

 

[sweetcalie08]

Hehe AmandaRxs- Sorry for not letting you forget I need a B. Guess I do talk about this issue too much-sorry. Well, for the last midterm, I failed it along with the rest of that large bunch...I knew going in I was not ready at all. We get to drop one exam, however, so I'm still sitting at a B in the class. Just need to do awesome on the final...but it's going to be mostly like the last midterm and the final's coming up this Saturday, so I don't have much time left. Okay, I will stop worrying until I actually take the final and get my score back now.

 

[Smilescali]

*BUMP*

Well, I just got my first test back from O-chem 1 and I got the worst grade I have ever received on a test. I hope this trend does not continue. I just think I under estimated the class. I can drop one test, I hate to do it, but we will see. The class average was 65% and I got a 81% maybe there will be a curve, but I doubt it will help. Anyone else out there struggling with organic chem?

 

[megrxgirl]

*BUMP*

Well, I just got my first test back from O-chem 1 and I got the worst grade I have ever received on a test. I hope this trend does not continue. I just think I under estimated the class. I can drop one test, I hate to do it, but we will see. The class average was 65% and I got a 81% maybe there will be a curve, but I doubt it will help. Anyone else out there struggling with organic chem?

sounds like you did pretty well if the class average was 65% and you got an 81%. why would you hate to drop a test?

 

[ultracet]

*BUMP*

Well, I just got my first test back from O-chem 1 and I got the worst grade I have ever received on a test. I hope this trend does not continue. I just think I under estimated the class. I can drop one test, I hate to do it, but we will see. The class average was 65% and I got a 81% maybe there will be a curve, but I doubt it will help. Anyone else out there struggling with organic chem?

there are currently people in the class who hate you with a passion i'm sure...

81 sheesh!
worst grade ever!
wow...

 

[mshheaddoc]

I changed my major first time around from chem to econ b/c of OCHEM. Now I'm taking it again 7 yrs later and going to rape it this time

 

[Smilescali]

sounds like you did pretty well if the class average was 65% and you got an 81%. why would you hate to drop a test?

This was the first exam and the easiest by far I am told by former students. I barely got a B so I can assume if it is going to get a lot harder, then my test scores will drop. I won't have the luxury to drop a harder exam if I want an A in the class. I guess I will just have to try harder if I want that A. This class is a lot harder than I thought it was going to be.

 

[mshheaddoc]

This was the first exam and the easiest by far I am told by former students. I barely got a B so I can assume if it is going to get a lot harder, then my test scores will drop. I won't have the luxury to drop a harder exam if I want an A in the class. I guess I will just have to try harder if I want that A. This class is a lot harder than I thought it was going to be.

So you'd rather quit then trying harder? It will just take more effort and studying.

 

[Smilescali]

So you'd rather quit then trying harder? It will just take more effort and studying.

Absolutely not. I am not sure how you gathered that I would rather quit than try harder. I never mentioned quitting to the slightest degree. I merely was venting about organic chemistry and just wondering if anyone else had the same issues about this class.

 

[ultracet]

Absolutely not. I am not sure how you gathered that I would rather quit than try harder. I never mentioned quitting to the slightest degree. I merely was venting about organic chemistry and just wondering if anyone else had the same issues about this class.

organic always sucks.

i refused to take it at the school i was attending and took it in the summer b/c there it was a min repeat of at least 1 semester of it.

 

[megrxgirl]

Absolutely not. I am not sure how you gathered that I would rather quit than try harder. I never mentioned quitting to the slightest degree. I merely was venting about organic chemistry and just wondering if anyone else had the same issues about this class.

in my organic class my lab grades will help alot. test grades count 65% and lab grades count 35% and I always make 20/20 on my labs. I am taking my first exam Monday and I am beyond nervous about it.

 

[dgroulx]

in my organic class my lab grades will help alot. test grades count 65% and lab grades count 35% and I always make 20/20 on my labs. I am taking my first exam Monday and I am beyond nervous about it.

No one in my class ever made a perfect score on labs. We had to produce significant product and our lab reports had to be perfect and look like an actual published article - abstract, methods & materials, discussion, etc. The teacher would go in later and analyze the product that we produced. One person (not in my class), filled his final test tube with a chemical off the shelf for his product sample because he messed up the lab. He got an F.

 

[fairyofsong]

This is something that has been on my mind A LOT lately, as I am a 1st year Pharmacy studeint. I cannot stress enough how IMPORTANTTTTTTTT Organic Chem will be to you!! SERIOUSLY try to get as much as you can out of it--it will be worth your time.

No one let me know how much it would come back to haunt you when I was an undergrad, so make the most of it!!

 

[starsweet]

Interesting... I was told by a pharmacist that she didn't use Organic Chem during pharmacy school. I'm not challenging you, I just find it funny that people have such different opinions.

 

[dgroulx]

Interesting... I was told by a pharmacist that she didn't use Organic Chem during pharmacy school. I'm not challenging you, I just find it funny that people have such different opinions.

It's hard to get through Med Chem without understanding organic. UF has a med chem intro course 1st year, a nucleotide med chem course 1st year, then 2 semesters of med chem in 2nd year. I'm in 3rd year and I'm taking a med chem elective!

You won't be doing any synthesis, but you will need to be able to draw structures, mechanisms and push around electrons.

 

[Smilescali]

It's hard to get through Med Chem without understanding organic. UF has a med chem intro course 1st year, a nucleotide med chem course 1st year, then 2 semesters of med chem in 2nd year. I'm in 3rd year and I'm taking a med chem elective!

You won't be doing any synthesis, but you will need to be able to draw structures, mechanisms and push around electrons.

So basically students will only use organic chem. in pharmacy school in the med. chem classes. However, it looks like med. chem is a big part of pharmacy school. So bottom line just know the darn stuff! Right?

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