ORGO!!!

[ziggy1104]

OK, so as I've posted in other threads, I am taking the DAT June 24 and am teaching myself orgo from scratch. I really didn't want to wait another year to apply, so here I am. I breezed right through the basics, and am now stuck at learning all these wonderful mechanisms!!! I am spending 95% of my time trying to learn this stuff, and as the 24th is approaching, I have barely started on the other subjects (although I feel pretty good about the rest, just need some review and practice time-except PAT )

At this point, I am really contemplating just going through Chad's again in a much quicker fashion, and moving on with everything else. Since I know I can get high scores in most other subjects, I almost feel like the best plan of action is to quit spending so much time on orgo and just aim for really high scores on the rest.

So, question is: should I be spending the most time just straight up memorizing the mechanisms listed on coursesaver and in roadmaps? And move on with other subjects? I just have no idea if this is what I should for the best outcome on the DAT. I have taken dat bootcamps practice orgo test and scored 13!!! I got all the basic, conceptual stuff right. I can do newman projections, resonance, etc. Just when it's asking for products or reagents, I am lost and just cant afford to spend my entire study time focusing on only orgo.

Any suggestions from anyone is greatly appreciated!!! Sorry for the rant, just starting to get stressed and overwhelmed!

Edit: To clarify, my main question is, how do you think I should study for orgo at this point? Should I simply memorize the reactions in Chads and destroyer? Do you think that will be enough since I have the basics down? That way I can work on that every day, and still have time to continue studying for everything else. Note: I am on day 3 of Chad's vids and am lost. Should I continue watching them or just memorize rxns?

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[Daneosaurus]

I have 3 suggestions for you, 2 of which you probably won't like:
1. Push back your DAT date. It sucks, but you need more time to be prepared the best you can.
2. Wait a year, take DAT after you have taken orgo 1 and 2. I personally recommend this - orgo is the most difficult subject to grasp on the DAT, but if you've taken the classes it becomes the easiest to study for and you'll find most of it fairly intuitive.
3. Don't memorize mechanisms, memorize reactions. This can be a bear, but since you have not taken the class, I suspect reactions will be higher yield than learning mechanisms. However: knowing mechanisms = understanding.

These are just my suggestions, and I don't mean to be off-putting, but I want the best for you. I would not want to take the DAT without having taken orgo 1 and 2 first.

 

[ziggy1104]

I have seriously considered pushing back the date. I start summer classes for sum B, though. So, that sucks. But, I may have to do it. Although that is really not what I want to do.

But, I am really leaning toward just memorizing all of the reactions Chad's gives and just say screw going through all the videos bc I honestly have no clue what hes talking about most of the time. And I've reached a point in orgo as 2nd lang. where I'm lost as well (last couple chapters on mechanisms). Since I've got the basics down and just need to memorize mechanisms, I may have a fighting chance.

Honestly, I already spent 400 on this test, I spent more $ rescheduling, buying the material, blah blah blah. I don't have a lot of money and tired of having this thing hanging over my head. I know most SDN'ers would recommend eating the $ and rescheduling, but just plain losing 400$ makes me cringe. Like I said, that's a lot of $ to me. So, not taking the test would be my last choice.

 

[matty675]

Unfortunately, I agree with Daneosaurus. Organic is so much easier to study for once you have taken the classes. IMO calling it quits and moving on to other subjects is a must at this point because you are going to need plenty of time to study for the other subjects as well. However, in the interest of scoring well in OC you simply cannot do that. Although you may feel that you know the other subjects well, I would be willing to bet that once you dive into QR or GC you will quickly notice many weaknesses that you have in those areas as well (just as I did).

At the very least you need to push back your test date to August. I would recommend pushing it back until after you have taken Orgo I/II because that will make the DAT Orgo a breeze and allow you to focus on everything else. I honestly cannot imagine having to learn all of those reactions from scratch. It would be a huge burden. Do you know of anyone who could tutor you?

I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but often times things don't go as planned and you just have to look at the positive side of things.

 

[mardr2b]

Ziggy I think you can do it. If you feel good about the other subjects then just do a small review daily. You can do all of orgo in a week it's possible. Make sure you take notes and really understand what Chad is saying. I had to stop and go back a few times to male sure I understand a topic. I only took orgo one and I had a hard time as well. Most important don't get overwhelmed and don't leave PAT for last minute you need to practice it and get your eyes used to seeing shapes angles folds etc.
Also make sure you fell comfortable with the other material. Don't try to wing it.

 

[ziggy1104]

I'm starting to think you guys are right. I am so conflicted. I just want to apply already and get this over with. I have everything else for the app lined up and ready to go. I decided to start focusing on other subjects, but I am finding it difficult to concentrate on them bc I am so worried about orgo

Im just driving myself crazy.

Ziggy I think you can do it. If you feel good about the other subjects then just do a small review daily. You can do all of orgo in a week it's possible. Make sure you take notes and really understand what Chad is saying. I had to stop and go back a few times to male sure I understand a topic. I only took orgo one and I had a hard time as well. Most important don't get overwhelmed and don't leave PAT for last minute you need to practice it and get your eyes used to seeing shapes angles folds etc.
Also make sure you fell comfortable with the other material. Don't try to wing it.

Thank you! seriously this makes me feel better. This back and forth is driving me crazy. I wonder what would happen if I get a 15 in orgo and 20+ on everything else lol. Are you memorizing all of Chad's rxns?

 

[mardr2b]

If you get 15 anywhere that's below the cut off for most schools which is 17 I believe. Yes Chad is your personal tutor just sit down and focus and listen to him he teaches everything you need to know.

 

[ziggy1104]

For the first concepts in orgo, I breezed through. I got to chap 9 out of 13 in orgo as 2nd lang. Everything was pretty straightforward and simple, and I grasped it pretty quickly. I went over Chad's and he reinforced the concepts. However, now that I'm at a point where everything is rxns, I am so overwhelmed and have no idea how to study now, thats what is freaking me out. I have spent 5 hours this morning (literally, 5 hours!) going over Chad's and trying to use orgo as 2nd lang. and odyssey to help me out when I'm stuck, and I'm just not getting anywhere! I feel like there is no rhyme or reason to what Chad is saying and I can't do anything tat this point but straight up memorize the reactions and regurgitate them on the DAT. Is this true, or do you have some tricks or tips to learning these reactions in a short time period? Should I just write them down each night and hope they diffuse in my brain?

 

[matty675]

A lot of it is just rote memorization. I have a huge stack of flash cards from my Orgo classes that I used to memorize all of the reactions. However, after a while you begin to understand how certain reagents will react under certain conditions and it's almost like second nature. The one problem with Chad's Orgo is that he does not cover many of the mechanisms. This is fine because you will never be asked to draw out a mechanism on the DAT. However, when you understand how to "push arrows" the reactions begin to make a lot more sense and you begin to understand the concepts rather than just memorize a product from the given reagents.

 

[mardr2b]

I would understand a few main points like what's a nuc and whats and elec. which rxn are Syn, anti, Mark etc. I have them all on index cards up on my wall. I also listened to chapter 3 and 4 2x. Right them out for sure but understand some points. Go to youtube Leah4sci she is free and explains really well.

 

[mardr2b]

Also make sure to really grasp EAS rxn whats ortho, Para, meta amd whats Activating and deactivating.

 

[discensdentibus]

I'm actually a certified chemistry tutor at my university. My recommendation is going to be biased in taking into account the money factor. The way I learned organic chemistry is the same way I learned latin, how to ride a bike, how to tie my shoes, how to learn the lyrics to a song - Practice, practice practice. No one really is born a bike rider; he or she probably fell many times before getting it down. If you watch people play football, you don't just turn into an all star athlete. Watching Chads videos in your situation is almost like watching sportscenter and trying to remember all the important facts about a particular game- it doesn't really work because you don't have a reference point and you never saw the actual game. I did really well in my chemistry classes, and it wasn't because the material just diffused down a concentration gradient.. I am positive that I worked more problems incorrectly throughout both semesters than the total amount of problems other people worked at all. That being said, if you had access to a textbook and a solutions manual, you would have a fighting chance in my opinion. Organic as a second language is decent but self-admittedly lacking in content. That is the resource you want to use when you still want to understand, not memorize things. Practice a bunch of synthesis problems if you haven't already. It familiarizes yourself with your toolbox. If you use your toolbox enough, reactions will be at the tip of your head all the time. My biggest tip is to ask why's and not what's when trying to get ochem down. The way I look at every mechanism is how the electrons move. Yes you gotta understand nucleophile and electrophile, but take it one step further and ask why. Look at you electron densities, which atoms like bearing negative charges, which don't like bearing negative charges. Having a general idea of pKas will increase you mechanistic intuition as well. Good luck

 

[Thanhn]

Each functional group has a similar mechanism of how it attacks or get attacked. Keep writing down the mechanism and try to understand why something is attacking something else. Ask yourself if there is a site that's electron deficient or is it based on acidity (ALOT of the reactions in orgo are solely based on pKa's). Eventually (hopefully sooner rather than later in your case), you'll have an epiphany and see that all of the functional groups have the same general mechanism.

Once you've got the general trend of mechanisms for each functional group, make flashcards for each reaction within that functional group (ROH, ROOR, alkene, alkyne, etc.) Here's how I made my flashcards (helped me do very well in OCHEM I/II).

Best of luck! If you are stuck with any of the reaction mechanisms, I (or everyone else on here) can try to explain it!

 

[ziggy1104]

You guys are all awesome! This is exactly what I needed, just someone to tell me the main points I need to focus on bc I was feeling pretty lost. Thanks, @mardr2b . I wrote the concepts you said to focus on down. The only ones I still need work on there are the EAS and ortho, para. etc. Also I dont know much about activating, deactivating.

@Thanhn , awesome tips. I honestly never though to break up the reactions by func. groups. I really think that will help me categorize everything bc right now, I am overwhelmed by the sheer amount of rxns I need to memorize. If I could just find some trends here, I think I will be OK.

@matty675 and @discensdentibus , you're so right, watching Chad's has pretty much done zilch for me. A complete waste of time. I do have organic odyssey which has a bunch of problems, and DAT destroyer which has the road maps.

How would you guys suggest I go about remembering these rxns? Anyone have tips for this? Should I remember every single one Chad's has on his 10-page long list, should I go for the roadmaps in destroyer, or should I just start working problems in odyssey and learn them this way (I should note that I did a couple problems in odyssey today and was a little lost, but haven't gotten that far into it). Since you guys have all done this before, you know much better what the best way to learn this stuff is. Any tips are appreciated!

Keep in mind I have very limited amount of time (~4 wks) and have to study for other subjects as well, so whichever way will save me time and get me a decent score (not counting on a super high score honestly) will help! I have a good GPA and feel confident on the rest of the subjects, so I have accepted DAT orgo will just not be a strength on my app! I have other ones, just need to roll with it. Just a decent score is what I'm aiming for Thanks guys!

 

[matty675]

All activating groups are donating groups and are therefore o/p directing. When an atom bonded directly to the benzene ring has a lone pair it can donate this lone pair to the ring to increase electron density and make a stronger Nu-. Although alkyl groups do not have lone pairs, they are mildly donating groups. The reasoning behind o/p direction is found in the intermediate resonance structures that can be drawn where the substituent double bonds to benzene, thus sharing the positive charge and stabilizing the structure. Halogens are the ONLY deactivating/withdrawing group that are o/p directing for this very reason. They have lone pairs and thus can double bond with the benzene ring to share the positive charge and stabilize the structure.

Withdrawing groups can be simplified as groups that have resonance outside of the ring (not a hard and fast rule, but it often suffices). They are meta directing because of the intermediate resonance structures that can be drawn where the electron withdrawing substituent can never be directly attached to the carbocation. If the electron withdrawing substituent were able to be directly bonded to the carbocation, the structure would be very unstable.

If I were you I would make note cards for all of chad's reactions.

 

[swindoll]

Wait, so you want to take DAT before you've taken Orgo1&2? Did you just complete your freshman year of college??

 

[Dotoday]

What you are trying to do is very difficult. You can try it, read Organic chemistry as a second language 1 and 2. Then do Odyssey and Destroyer. Then, if you think you learned it, take some tests on CrackDAT. If you are getting high and mid 20's, go take the DAT. If you are in teens then do not take it, take Orgo 1 and 2 first.

 

[Dotoday]

You still have to take 2 semesters of Orgo to apply to Dental schools.

 

[ziggy1104]

Wait, so you want to take DAT before you've taken Orgo1&2? Did you just complete your freshman year of college??

No, I'm a senior and will be graduating spring 2015. I am a non-trad and almost completed my elem edu degree, then decided to switch. So, I am only taking pre-reqs.

 

[ziggy1104]

You still have to take 2 semesters of Orgo to apply to Dental schools.

Yup, I do

 

[swindoll]

I actually just talked to a girl who said she self-studied for Orgo 2, and apparently, she did really well on DAT. I guess it all comes down to your dedication. If you think you can do, go for it!

 

[ziggy1104]

I actually just talked to a girl who said she self-studied for Orgo 2, and apparently, she did really well on DAT. I guess it all comes down to your dedication. If you think you can do, go for it!

Thank you!! Love stories like this