ortho advice pre-m3

[brortho]

Got my step score back--248. A little disappointed cuz my averages were in the 260s on NBMEs and 260+ on UWSAs. Don't get me wrong––still a great score, but was wondering how I can make myself competitive for a top tier ortho program. My dream is HSS but I'd be ecstatic with any of the Northeast research heavy schools. I wonder if my step (which is average for such a competitive specialty) will keep me out from the top tier programs. I've done ortho research since my first year (hopefully should have roughly 5 papers published by end of M3, 2 presentations, 4-5 abstracts if not more). I know that I have to crush M3, get great letters of rec and be normal.

Anyone have similar experience or any advice? Will my 248 screen me out from places like HMS/HSS?

thanks

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[MSTP18]

Just FYI to others coming across this, maybe it's changed in the 5 years since I was Step 1 prepping, but UWSA were notoriously lenient in their scoring.

I write this to say "don't feel like you botched test day because you got a 248 on the real thing but were >260 on UWSAs"

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Any program will teach you to be a good orthopaedic surgeon. Just do well on your rotations and let the chips fall where they may. It's really not as big of a deal as you think. And I say this as someone with a very intimate knowledge of the Northeast and those programs.
Out of curiousity, why HSS? They have a million fellows who will compete for cases with you.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

Got my step score back--248. A little disappointed cuz my averages were in the 260s on NBMEs and 260+ on UWSAs. Don't get me wrong––still a great score, but was wondering how I can make myself competitive for a top tier ortho program. My dream is HSS but I'd be ecstatic with any of the Northeast research heavy schools. I wonder if my step (which is average for such a competitive specialty) will keep me out from the top tier programs. I've done ortho research since my first year (hopefully should have roughly 5 papers published by end of M3, 2 presentations, 4-5 abstracts if not more). I know that I have to crush M3, get great letters of rec and be normal.

Anyone have similar experience or any advice? Will my 248 screen me out from places like HMS/HSS?

thanks

The average in 2016 was 247; I imagine this year it was 248. So you're right in the thick of things. I can't say I know what cutoffs places have, but I've heard of places with 240 cutoffs, and I suppose some places it could be 250. Regardless, you're in great shape, plus you have all that research that I'm jelly of.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

Just FYI to others coming across this, maybe it's changed in the 5 years since I was Step 1 prepping, but UWSA were notoriously lenient in their scoring.

I write this to say "don't feel like you botched test day because you got a 248 on the real thing but were >260 on UWSAs"

Last year for me, UWSA 1 over-predicted by 4, and UWSA 2 under-predicted by 7. But I do know other people where it was markedly different.

 

[iceman55]

Your step score won't screen you out as i know someone that just matched with slightly lower score. However, he had some great connections, which trumps everything else.

I personally think when comes to top tier ortho programs grades aren't the most important criteria. Either you have great connections to that particular program or you are a unique accomplished applicant.

And just wanted to add that of course doing an away rotation and some luck of being at the right place at the time always helps in forming that connection.


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[LyMed]

Your step score won't screen you out as i know someone that just matched with slightly lower score. However, he had some great connections, which trumps everything else.

I personally think when comes to top tier ortho programs grades aren't the most important criteria. Either you have great connections to that particular program or you are a unique accomplished applicant.

And just wanted to add that of course doing an away rotation and some luck of being at the right place at the time always helps in forming that connection.


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Iceman is right. Your score is fine, but who in Ortho doesn't have a good score and research? The only things that can set you apart is:
Good letters
Aways/connections at that location (in which they get to know you and like you)
Something unique - whatever the case may be.

 

[brortho]

Any program will teach you to be a good orthopaedic surgeon. Just do well on your rotations and let the chips fall where they may. It's really not as big of a deal as you think. And I say this as someone with a very intimate knowledge of the Northeast and those programs.
Out of curiousity, why HSS? They have a million fellows who will compete for cases with you.

I completely agree with you--I'm sure each and every single program will train me to be an awesome surgeon. I guess I've really, really loved research and want to be a pioneer/leader in my field. And I'd like to ultimately have a career in academic orthopaedics. Most of the attendings at the best programs are often products of the top-tier programs that not only pump out a ton of great research but are truly phenomenal surgeons. I've only got one shot at my career, and I want to train from the best.

I also have a gf who I'm going to ask to marry me soon. I'd like her to be near family because I know I won't be around much to help out around the house/with kids whenever we do have them. Even if we're not near family, she wants to be in a big city so she can still have a resemblance of a life while I may not. It's her late 20s as much as it is mine.

 

[Brorthopedic]

Nice name

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I completely agree with you--I'm sure each and every single program will train me to be an awesome surgeon. I guess I've really, really loved research and want to be a pioneer/leader in my field. And I'd like to ultimately have a career in academic orthopaedics. Most of the attendings at the best programs are often products of the top-tier programs that not only pump out a ton of great research but are truly phenomenal surgeons. I've only got one shot at my career, and I want to train from the best.

I also have a gf who I'm going to ask to marry me soon. I'd like her to be near family because I know I won't be around much to help out around the house/with kids whenever we do have them. Even if we're not near family, she wants to be in a big city so she can still have a resemblance of a life while I may not. It's her late 20s as much as it is mine.

You can do research even if a program doesn't "push it." It is largely a self-motivating thing. Be careful with programs that just make you pump out useless crap to supplement some attending's professorship. Also the research heavy places also often have fellows, which are competition for residents in terms of cases. Just something to think about.

 

[hunterjumper14]

You can do research even if a program doesn't "push it." It is largely a self-motivating thing. Be careful with programs that just make you pump out useless crap to supplement some attending's professorship. Also the research heavy places also often have fellows, which are competition for residents in terms of cases. Just something to think about.

As someone who just went through the interview cycle, I cannot agree more with this. Some of the "best" places scared the crap out of me because their residents weren't operating nearly as much as I was used to seeing at my home program. As a mentor told me prior to submission to my rank list: you have 5 years to learn as much as you possibly can before you are an attending and everything is on you. I didn't want to end up in a program where I felt like I needed a fellowship for operative experience. Scary stuff

Moral of the story: keep an open mind. Rotate at HSS, but maybe do an away at a program that is less fellow heavy too. You might end up being surprised which program ends up at the top of your list. Good luck!

 

[FutureDoc1088]

I saw a pretty big difference in the operative experience during my away rotations. A place I thought would be awesome and had a better name dropped on my list when I saw the residents weren't as good surgeons. A good, but not huge name had residents that were doing cases skin to skin. I saw 3s outperforming the 5s at the other program. Makes you reconsider Doximity rankings when you go and interview at places you didn't get to witness how residents actually operate. Use rankings with great caution, and there's always HSS for fellowship!

Oh, and you'll be fine with a 248.

 

[Sea Otter]

Do as many aways as you can and network network network. If you do well there, you'll get in the door for interviews. After that, it's all a crapshoot. Best of luck!

 

[BarcaBest23]

Bro, for academia its HSS or bust, if you don't get in you'll find yourself doing podiatry in Podunk, Ala.