Ortho Residency Programs by Surgical Experience

[DeVo87]

Hello all, I am looking to attend an orthodontic residency program heavy in surgical orthodontics/interdisciplinary care. Top suggestions? Any resources available to compare programs side by side?? 2-3 orthognathic cases seems really slim for training purposes, anyone have more experience at their residency?

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[2TH MVR]

I attended Montefiore in the good part of the Bronx. 🙂. Plenty of orthognathic cases. Cleft-palate. Craniofacial patients. We worked with the craniofacial team. Lots of cases.

But in the REAL world. Orthognathic treatments are very few. Your time would be better spent learning to do Dentofacial orthopedics to avoid orthognathic surgery in the 1st place.

 

[DeVo87]

I attended Montefiore in the good part of the Bronx. 🙂. Plenty of orthognathic cases. Cleft-palate. Craniofacial patients. We worked with the craniofacial team. Lots of cases.

But in the REAL world. Orthognathic treatments are very few. Your time would be better spent learning to do Dentofacial orthopedics to avoid orthognathic surgery in the 1st place.

Hey 2TH, so what's "plenty"? 2, 5, 10? I'm currently military dentist vying for an Ortho slot. Most of our patients are adult Ortho and orthognathic cases. Also would like to consider a career in academia with an emphasis on cranofacial anomalies. Thank you for your insight.

 

[2TH MVR]

Hey 2TH, so what's "plenty"? 2, 5, 10? I'm currently military dentist vying for an Ortho slot. Most of our patients are adult Ortho and orthognathic cases. Also would like to consider a career in academia with an emphasis on cranofacial anomalies. Thank you for your insight.

The ortho and OMS programs were attached and worked together. In other words ... if a patient was anything other than a simple ortho correction ... it was treated with orthognathics. More than 10 ...easily. Maybe it has something to do with that part of the country. Maybe something to do with medicaid patients. Lots of eye opening cranial-facial abnormalities that I would have never seen in the corn fields of Nebraska where I attended undergrad dental.

 

[DeVo87]

The ortho and OMS programs were attached and worked together. In other words ... if a patient was anything other than a simple ortho correction ... it was treated with orthognathics. More than 10 ...easily. Maybe it has something to do with that part of the country. Maybe something to do with medicaid patients. Lots of eye opening cranial-facial abnormalities that I would have never seen in the corn fields of Nebraska where I attended undergrad dental.

Where did you set up your practice after graduating? Why did you decide on that Ortho program? Did you know it was going to be like that before you chose to attend/apply?

 

[2TH MVR]

Where did you set up your practice after graduating? Why did you decide on that Ortho program? Did you know it was going to be like that before you chose to attend/apply?

I'm in Arizona. Did I know what it was like? No. I was happy that I was accepted to a program. Any program. Unlike some .... I didn't have a lot of choices for residency. But it worked out.

 

[Munks]

The ortho and OMS programs were attached and worked together. In other words ... if a patient was anything other than a simple ortho correction ... it was treated with orthognathics. More than 10 ...easily. Maybe it has something to do with that part of the country. Maybe something to do with medicaid patients. Lots of eye opening cranial-facial abnormalities that I would have never seen in the corn fields of Nebraska where I attended undergrad dental.

Part of it is lots of big class 3 growers in the patient population, and a big part of it is that NY medicaid is relatively more generous when it comes to covering orthognathic surgery (and orthodontic tx in general) compared to other states, whether it's on the dental side of medical side of coverage. If a patient gets approved for the orthodontic tx, chances are they are in an income or 'need' situation where they may also have the orthognathic sx covered as well.

Though like you also said 2th MVR, there is such an abundance of surgical cases that it is definitely worth seeing if it is viable to treat some non-surgically as well for practice out in the 'real world' (especially with TADs and other treatment modalities we have now).

*And also agree.. wherever you can get in, go for it! You can get to be an excellent clinician from any program, assuming you have some self-motivation 😉.

*Edit- actually if your end goal is academia, I would try to find a program where you get a masters. I feel like that is almost a 'must have' when going into academics. (verses certificate-only programs)

 

[DeVo87]

Part of it is lots of big class 3 growers in the patient population, and a big part of it is that NY medicaid is relatively more generous when it comes to covering orthognathic surgery (and orthodontic tx in general) compared to other states, whether it's on the dental side of medical side of coverage. If a patient gets approved for the orthodontic tx, chances are they are in an income or 'need' situation where they may also have the orthognathic sx covered as well.

Though like you also said 2th MVR, there is such an abundance of surgical cases that it is definitely worth seeing if it is viable to treat some non-surgically as well for practice out in the 'real world' (especially with TADs and other treatment modalities we have now).

*And also agree.. wherever you can get in, go for it! You can get to be an excellent clinician from any program, assuming you have some self-motivation 😉.

*Edit- actually if your end goal is academia, I would try to find a program where you get a masters. I feel like that is almost a 'must have' when going into academics. (verses certificate-only programs)

Thanks Munks! How was your program? Or did you attend the same program?

Definitely looking to get a masters (another preference of mine) but as everyone has pointed out, the ability to match to a program that has everything I want is seemingly more complicated and difficult to obtain.

 

[gryffindor]

*Edit- actually if your end goal is academia, I would try to find a program where you get a masters. I feel like that is almost a 'must have' when going into academics. (verses certificate-only programs)

And aim for board certification. In my recent research on this, it appears that's important to the academic world.

My program used to be known for surgery back in the day but insurance and faculty issues made the surgical pool mostly dry up during my time and the program is now closed. Each resident had anywhere from 5 - 10+ cleft and other craniofacial cases. I had at least 10. I didn't understand why the AAO was starting a craniofacial fellowship until I learned it was not the norm to have so many craniofacial patients in a residency caseload. There used to be some surgery fellowships out there for ortho people (Chicago, Dr. Super in NY) but my info is now over 10+ years old so I don't know if they still exist.

 

[DeVo87]

And aim for board certification. In my recent research on this, it appears that's important to the academic world.

My program used to be known for surgery back in the day but insurance and faculty issues made the surgical pool mostly dry up during my time and the program is now closed. Each resident had anywhere from 5 - 10+ cleft and other craniofacial cases. I had at least 10. I didn't understand why the AAO was starting a craniofacial fellowship until I learned it was not the norm to have so many craniofacial patients in a residency caseload. There used to be some surgery fellowships out there for ortho people (Chicago, Dr. Super in NY) but my info is now over 10+ years old so I don't know if they still exist.

Thank you for your insight. Board certification is also on my long list of desires! Since I am AF, I am used to working with board certified specialists, as one, it is highly encouraged for us, and two you get a special pay for board certification.

 

[Munks]

Thanks Munks! How was your program? Or did you attend the same program?

Definitely looking to get a masters (another preference of mine) but as everyone has pointed out, the ability to match to a program that has everything I want is seemingly more complicated and difficult to obtain.

Hi Devo, same program. Lots of clinical experience & very few didactic lectures - can be a positive or negative depending on your goals. Masters & board cert make it all the easier to be successful in academia.

 

[DeVo87]

Hi Devo, same program. Lots of clinical experience & very few didactic lectures - can be a positive or negative depending on your goals. Masters & board cert make it all the easier to be successful in academia.

Was a masters an option at your program?

 

[Munks]

Was a masters an option at your program?

Eeeh kind of.. yes it is an option, but almost nobody does it because it requires an extra year. Because it is a hospital program and you're seeing patients all day, you are not given time on the side to take whatever masters classes are needed for the degree, so you basically have to do it that takes a year on its own.

 

[Tooth]

@DeVo87 If you are in the AF then you probably know the Triservice Orthodontics Residency Program (TORP) is the most orthognathic centered orthodontic program in the US. You should certainly be looking into that program.