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Orthopaedic & Podiatric Surgeons Joint Task Force 2021

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GreenHousePub

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    None of the language in that summarized resolution seems like it is in favor or complimentary to podiatry. It reads more like "we should let them attempt and fail like we expected at doing the standards we set out."

    With how much territory the (his) AMA is losing to NPs and PAs as a whole you'd think the language would be a little different.
     

    MaxPayneDPM

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    On the off-chance that people do not have the time or the inclination to read that link, I think the two lines that need to be posted and re-posted to every pod forum in the universe are:

    The endpoint is MD=DO=DPM. The Doctor of Podiatric Medicine degree does not go away, just as the Doctor Osteopathic Medicine degree did not go away...

    ...and...

    But, again, keep in mind no viable pathway to advance the podiatric profession to true parity exists.

    I think it is also important to note that the profession is attempting this at a time when the AMA is in the midst of their own "Scope of Practice Offensive." (Those are their words). While their hands have largely been full with the pandemic and PA, NP and CRNA shenanigans, they have actively been writing letters to state legislatures against podiatry. They have rolled out Truth in Advertising Campaigns in a lot of states and, as you can see in the draft resolution previously posted, seem very determined to enact more clear visual and vocal identification of physicians from non-physicians (which is what they consider podiatrists) in mixed work places like hospitals.
     
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    Well the ACFAS president-elect wholeheartedly believes that the AMA is trying to scoop us under their AMA “physician” umbrella so that it ends up being a sort of MD/DO/DPM vs midlevels sort of thing. He alluded that they want us to be defined as physicians just as much as a lot of podiatrists would like and that they don‘t want the resolution to fail. This may be because the cat is already out of the bag as it relates to our education, residency training, and extent of what we do in the OR, prescribing, already being “physicians” under social security act and under many hospitals bylaws already, the recent VA parity change etc etc. The AMA can pretty much make an example out of DPM as they did with DO in terms of professions that successfully meets their “physician” requirements.

    The president elect also alluded a few times that this may be a 10-15 year timeline thing in terms of the plenary license. IMO quite literally everything about life as we know it may be very different in 10-15 years in terms economy, healthcare, education pathways etc etc so that seems a little odd especially with how quickly encroachment *cough* parity is moving for the midlevels.

    I was quite skeptical in the beginning but I’ll say this, if you do a little digging you might be surprised to find hardly any opposition (if any at all) to these measures and DPM may in fact be given the USMLE green light very soon. In terms of establishing a state/national unlimited license and how we old heads will (or will not be) grandfathered in is a different story. A straight forward solution would be “if you took APMLE 1,2,CSPE,3 and completed 3 year residency by X date then you get the plenary license anyone & everyone else after has to follow X pathway”.

    There‘s a video interview that details all of this and a presentation that was given in Vegas recently
     
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    heybrother

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    what the hell is the CSPE?
    A massively expensive clinical skills exam on fake patients with a 99% pass rate in native English speakers. You may recall doing them at DMU in a hallway with fake exam rooms. You fly to this one. DPM powers that be added it because the MDs were doing it and now they want to do away with it.
     
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    MaxPayneDPM

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    You know...I am related to allopathic medicine through marriage and regardless of how it was written by DeHeen I have been informed that the equation is still:

    MD > DO > DPM...or MD > DO >= DPM, but it is certainly not MD=DO=DPM

    Don't worry though...I poured her the corked wine on behalf of the entire profession. ;)
     
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    air bud

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    A massively expensive clinical skills exam on fake patients with a 99% pass rate in native English speakers. You may recall doing them at DMU in a hallway with fake exam rooms. You fly to this one. DPM powers that be added it because the MDs were doing it and now they want to do away with it.
    ah yes, who can forget the DMU clinical skills exams...
     
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    call1800doctorb

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    This is the latest update I could find.

    USMLE Response to Request for DPM Eligibility

    October 19, 2021

    Podiatric education and training, while comprehensive for the advancement of quality podiatric care, may be too narrow given the USMLE’s focus on the generalized practice of medicine across all medical and surgical specialties.
    Opening USMLE to DPMs is not permitted under the contractual agreement between FSMB and NBME establishing USMLE, which limits eligibility to students and graduates of medical school.
    We must respectfully decline your request.


     
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    Podstar

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    This is the latest update I could find.

    USMLE Response to Request for DPM Eligibility

    October 19, 2021

    Podiatric education and training, while comprehensive for the advancement of quality podiatric care, may be too narrow given the USMLE’s focus on the generalized practice of medicine across all medical and surgical specialties.
    Opening USMLE to DPMs is not permitted under the contractual agreement between FSMB and NBME establishing USMLE, which limits eligibility to students and graduates of medical school.
    We must respectfully decline your request.


    I’m shocked.
     

    wakaflocka88

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    I’m shocked.
    Haha, kidding right?

    I hope current pre pods and pod students don’t believe what your respective school is telling you. Vision 2020 passed and it ain’t happening. Let your hard work and personality do the talking in this profession once you’re out in the real world. To get there, focus on school and get the best training you can.

    I trained with MD/DOs and currently work with a lot of MDs in my group. They know what podiatry can do and we highly respect each other’s skill sets. I worked my ass off in school, residency and now in my group to earn their respect in what I do now. There are orthopods in town and in close vicinity but ortho rather send me the trauma and rear foot stuff. School won’t teach you how to do this. You need to put in the work.
     
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    WhistleBrewer

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    Haha, kidding right?

    I hope current pre pods and pod students don’t believe what your respective school is telling you. Vision 2020 passed and it ain’t happening. Let your hard work and personality do the talking in this profession once you’re out in the real world. To get there, focus on school and get the best training you can.

    I trained with MD/DOs and currently work with a lot of MDs in my group. They know what podiatry can do and we highly respect each other’s skill sets. I worked my ass off in school, residency and now in my group to earn their respect in what I do now. There are orthopods in town and in close vicinity but ortho rather send me the trauma and rear foot stuff. School won’t teach you how to do this. You need to put in the work.
    In your opinion, why does Podiatry schools not teach the skill sets required for Podiatry in 2021? I've noticed (at least in my school) that many of the professors and course content they teach have not seen much updates since 20-30 years (even more?!) ago...

    From reading the NBME decision of rejecting the proposal and interpreting it, I can understand that
    1. Podiatry schools do not have standardization
    2. Rotations at my school lacks comprehensive clinical area in OBGYN (if we're physicians, shouldn't we be able to learn how to bring life into this world??) and endocrinology (which is surprising because majority of Podiatry patients with my understanding consists of those with metabolic disorders and diabetes)
    3. Podiatry schools do not show any investment in pushing the profession to parity despite advertising to undergrads

    As a current student, it is disheartening to study USMLE material and trying to keep up with MD/DO education yet the exam we take is APMLE that does not come close to the level of parity.
     

    Weirdy

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    Parity is practicing your full scope of what you were trained to do and being compensated equally.

    Why would I want to deliver a baby?
     
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    Treaty of Dorsi

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    As a current student, it is disheartening to study USMLE material and trying to keep up with MD/DO education yet the exam we take is APMLE that does not come close to the level of parity.
    I have never understood the desire to be like an MD/DO except for parity in terms of salary. I'm in podiatry school to pursue podiatry and because the curriculum allows me to treat patients with foot and ankle pathologies using conservative and surgical approaches after 7 years of schooling (residency included) rather than the 10+ years it takes to be a foot and ankle ortho.

    It makes no sense to try and have the same curriculum as an MD/DO because we already know what we are specializing in. So why take the USMLE when we know we can just focus on the foot and ankle while getting a broad understanding of other parts of the body? I believe the decision the NBME made to reject the proposal is honestly a great decision. I think some just want to take the USMLE to "show" MD/DOs that they are just as smart even though we really can just let our work speak for itself.
     
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    NobodyDPM

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    Parity is practicing your full scope of what you were trained to do and being compensated equally.

    Why would I want to deliver a baby?

    Sounds like we already have parity then. And have for some time.
     
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    WhistleBrewer

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    Sounds to me like y'all haven't been hearing about the podiatric profession's narrowing of scope! Its funny seeing PA and NPs (less education / schooling) scope expanding by the day while ours narrow; one of the key podiatric friendly state began losing grounds on what was within the scope of practice

    @Weirdy You're in the medical profession buddy so you should have comprehensive understanding of all aspects. No wonder people like you make our profession narrow minded because women's health is quite important with more recent spotlighting. Plus, the public will judge you hard if you're in a situation of needing to assist delivery of a child even though you call yourself a "physician
     

    wakaflocka88

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    Sounds to me like y'all haven't been hearing about the podiatric profession's narrowing of scope! Its funny seeing PA and NPs (less education / schooling) scope expanding by the day while ours narrow; one of the key podiatric friendly state began losing grounds on what was within the scope of practice

    @Weirdy You're in the medical profession buddy so you should have comprehensive understanding of all aspects. No wonder people like you make our profession narrow minded because women's health is quite important with more recent spotlighting. Plus, the public will judge you hard if you're in a situation of needing to assist delivery of a child even though you call yourself a "physician

    What you’re saying is silly to a degree. Until you have real world understanding and experience then come back and talk to me.

    And by the way, I love correcting students and residents when they say they’re in “medical school.” That’s why some desire this whole title parity.

    I had a lot of wards and internal medicine during my residency. I’m confused why you’re so worked up on this parity issue. Like I said in previous posts, I let my work and ethics do the talking in front of my respective ortho colleagues. I don’t need an exam, title or ego to prove to them I’m better. I’m here to do good work and it shows. They are fully supportive of me doing everything from toes to TARs and will gladly send me whatever trauma I can do.

    I can tell you besides my close friends and co residents whom are crushing it, I don’t know of any other classmates that are practicing full scope. Many new grads end up in a run of the mill practice. Why? You’ll have to ask them.
     

    air bud

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    Sounds to me like y'all haven't been hearing about the podiatric profession's narrowing of scope! Its funny seeing PA and NPs (less education / schooling) scope expanding by the day while ours narrow; one of the key podiatric friendly state began losing grounds on what was within the scope of practice

    @Weirdy You're in the medical profession buddy so you should have comprehensive understanding of all aspects. No wonder people like you make our profession narrow minded because women's health is quite important with more recent spotlighting. Plus, the public will judge you hard if you're in a situation of needing to assist delivery of a child even though you call yourself a "physician
    dude I hope you are joking. ZERO reason we need to do an OB rotation. 2 weeks on psych? sure why not.
     
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    MusicManMike

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    Being out in practice, I can tell you other practitioners (MD/DO/DPM/APRN/PA) care little, if at all, at the letters behind my name... they know that I am a “doctor/physician” and a lower extremity specialist. End of story. Im not trying to prove myself like I see some chiropractors/naturopathics doing (I do have respect for these professions, but there are some bad eggs out there).

    Although I do understand the argument behind the “why not rotate!!??” for OB/Psych, I can tell ya the knowledge you’d gain from those rotations would hardly (if ever) be used in your day to day DPM lifestyle... and likely you’d prob compartmentalize away that knowledge deep in your brain anyway.

    ... Anywho, back to dremeling nail DNA shards for my nurse’s Dyson ... 😜
     
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    NobodyDPM

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    Plus, the public will judge you hard if you're in a situation of needing to assist delivery of a child even though you call yourself a "physician
    LOOOOOOL...tell that to a Dermatologist or an Oral Surgeon.

    Come on, man.
     
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    Weirdy

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    @Weirdy You're in the medical profession buddy so you should have comprehensive understanding of all aspects. No wonder people like you make our profession narrow minded because women's health is quite important with more recent spotlighting. Plus, the public will judge you hard if you're in a situation of needing to assist delivery of a child even though you call yourself a "physician
    That's great man thanks for singling me out.

    Appreciate the props after coming off a month of general surgery doing everything from pulling chest tubes to suturing up abdomens bedside as a lame podunk-atry resident.

    Guess that makes me narrow minded when the general surgery and vascular residents appreciate and trust me running their services on the floor, diagnosing patients in their own clinics.

    But what the hell am I doing managing thyroid cancer or colon resections right? Still narrow minded I guess.

    Edit: Alright I'm not holding any punches anymore. Can't believe I'm getting riled up over an internet comment.

    You have no idea how out-of-the-way f***ing Hard I worked during off service rotations to prove to both the residents and attendings on those services that podiatry was a necessary and capable service at our hospitals. All they had to go off of was the podunk old DPM who couldn't even do a proper TMA. When you get into residency and the real world- the other services will judge podiatry based off of the worst example they have seen. You are as strong as your weakest link. It will be YOUR results, work ethic, and personal character that potentially changes their mind. I don't need to prove s***t to you because my off service rotations have already seen how far I am willing to go to work for them and to show them how capable and valuable the podiatry service can be to them.

    Best of luck.
     
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