Orthopaedic surgeon babies in the house???

[Taus]

I've given it some thought. One of my interviewers at an MD school actually suggested it to me. I didn't know what it was then, so I looked into it. I now know what it is, but I still don't know anyone who does it. I may try and do a rotation when the time comes, to get a better feel for it.

I you have an interest the NMSK system, kines, patients quality of life/overall function you should definitely check out the PM&R forums

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Taus]

thats just a sports medicine fellowship after a primary care residency, right? it doesnt matter whether it is emergency medicine or family practice...yea?

PM&R is also eligible for board certification in sports medicine (as of a couple years ago)

 

[RySerr21]

PM&R is also eligible for board certification in sports medicine (as of a couple years ago)

i think i heard someone say that once before. its definitely something for me to think about/look into.

so are these all the options for sports medicine?

orthopedic surgey + sports med fellowship
primary care + sports med fellowship
PM&R + sports med fellowship

 

[Taus]

i think i heard someone say that once before. its definitely something for me to think about/look into.

so are these all the options for sports medicine?

orthopedic surgey + sports med fellowship
primary care + sports med fellowship
PM&R + sports med fellowship

Basically....but just remember that "sports medicine" can mean many different things to different people. I would try to focus on which field you like as a "base field" and what aspect of sports medicine you'd like to practice

 

[Gpan]

Well, most of these perspectives on here are from med students or pre-meds, valid opinions but they can be skewed. I'm a DO in an allopathic orthopedic program and the differences between MD and DO ortho are very little. So there are two ways to look at this...

1) MD vs DO ortho programs: Inherent differences in both, generalizations, but MD = research/academics and DO = community programs, hands on. There are positives and negatives to both environments. At a community program, you can be operating from day one...but you may be a work horse and technically sound, but not academically grounded in up-to-date orthopedics. At an academic program, you may get all of the cutting edge info and access to incredible research opportunities, but you may come out feeling like you didn't get to do enough cases. Again, huge generalizations.

2) MD vs DO orthopedic surgeons: Differences, none. All who have gone through training will be adequate to perform as a general orthopedist. DO trained orthopods (only DO's) get board certified through the AOAO and MDs and MD trained (DO's in MD programs) can get certified through the AAOS. The AAOS being the primary society for orthopedics do allow DOs to become members in their society, however, not board certified by them (unless a DO did an MD ortho program). I know some people don't believe it, but some hospitals won't give certain specialties priviledges if you aren't board certified through an allopathic society. Believe it...they're out there.

Overall, if you want to go into Ortho...DO is not a bad way to go. Like someone else mentioned, your chances of landing a DO program as a DO is better than matching into an MD program as an MD. Both are hard, but DOs may have an easier way into the field of orthopedics, not to mention that you get great musculoskeletal education.

So, if you want to do ortho...being a DO won't hinder you. IF you have your hearts set on going to an MD ortho program for whatever reason, you better get into an MD school. I was very fortunate and worked very hard, but I was constantly asked why I went to a DO school when I interviewed at MD programs. I have no doubt that I didn't get more than 50% of my interviews simply because I was a DO.

Just my thoughts...

cp

From that thought, I have a feeling that DO programs train you to be ready to practice. Meanwhile, MD programs train you to do research and academic on top of practice. Wouldn't it be better to go to the DO programs then? Because we all know that as a doctors, we have to learn new things and new cutting edge techniques through out our careers anyway whether we do it officially in school or on our own time. It just seems redundant to me to do research while in school instead of taking that time to really master the crafts.

Besides, all those extra stuffs that MD programs teach are to prepare doctors who want to do fellowships and sub-specialties. So anyone who doesn't plan on doing those things better off at DO programs.

 

[Seneca20]

i can see how it would be wasted if you did the fellowship and then went into a strictly family medicine practice..... but if you do a sports medicine fellowship i imagine you'd have an interest in using it later, so would choose a job that allows you to do so.

Ryserr21 thats the sad part, most these Doc's are looking for the sports med practice, thats why they enter the fellowship in the first place. What they don't realize is there isn't a market for their skills in the real word. If there is a need for sports med, its generally going to be pulled in by an Orthopod, even in rural areas. 95% of the primary care Doc's that complete these fellowships aren't able to find a position where they can put those skills to work. Thats why they're frustrated, they do a sports fellowship and end up practicing strictly primary care.

 

[igcgnerd]

i think i heard someone say that once before. its definitely something for me to think about/look into.

so are these all the options for sports medicine?

orthopedic surgey + sports med fellowship
primary care + sports med fellowship
PM&R + sports med fellowship

Don't forget EM.

 

[RySerr21]

Ryserr21 thats the sad part, most these Doc's are looking for the sports med practice, thats why they enter the fellowship in the first place. What they don't realize is there isn't a market for their skills in the real word. If there is a need for sports med, its generally going to be pulled in by an Orthopod, even in rural areas. 95% of the primary care Doc's that complete these fellowships aren't able to find a position where they can put those skills to work. Thats why they're frustrated, they do a sports fellowship and end up practicing strictly primary care.

LAAAAAAAAAME! i guess ill be an orthopod then . if only it was that easy.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Basically it is a glorified physical therapist. Despite the fact that it has a very cushy residency and good lifestyle it has low board score averages and is easy to match into.

Not my cup of tea but a lot of people in my class are shooting for it.

Another option would be non-ortho sports medicine.

Ehhh not really. I could see where you think that, but there are always discussions about this on the PM&R boards where people pretty much get shut down thinking it's just a PT who can prescribe meds.

 

[Taus]

Ehhh not really. I could see where you think that, but there are always discussions about this on the PM&R boards where people pretty much get shut down thinking it's just a PT who can prescribe meds.

people will have something like that to say about any specialty.....insert your favorite degrading EM/FP/Neuro/IM stereotype....

 

[DocJulez]

LAAAAAAAAAME! i guess ill be an orthopod then . if only it was that easy.

ryserr....you and me are on the same page man.....

kenya volunteering
sports med interest
debates btwn ortho or PM&R

i cant wait to get into this stuff!!!!!

 

[RySerr21]

ryserr....you and me are on the same page man.....

kenya volunteering
sports med interest
debates btwn ortho or PM&R

i cant wait to get into this stuff!!!!!

totally!! except you've already been to africa... i am still hoping to be there one day . where are you on the track to medicine? already applied? applying next year?

 

[DocJulez]

totally!! except you've already been to africa... i am still hoping to be there one day . where are you on the track to medicine? already applied? applying next year?

already applied and accepted. going to azcom this sept.

i'm just leading the way for you buddy.
follow in my foot steps young skywalker...............(sorry, i just saw one of the star wars movies for the first time on monday....lol)

 

[RySerr21]

already applied and accepted. going to azcom this sept.

i'm just leading the way for you buddy.
follow in my foot steps young skywalker...............(sorry, i just saw one of the star wars movies for the first time on monday....lol)

ohhh exciting! congrats. i'll be applying to AZCOM as well....so I very well might be the young skywalker you speak of, haha.

i dont think i have ever actually seen the old star wars movies. ive seen bits and pieces...but im not really intersted in sitting through the whole thing.

 

[DocJulez]

ohhh exciting! congrats. i'll be applying to AZCOM as well....so I very well might be the young skywalker you speak of, haha.

i dont think i have ever actually seen the old star wars movies. ive seen bits and pieces...but im not really intersted in sitting through the whole thing.

lol
sweet

and i thought the same thing, had never seen any of them, didnt care to, but a buddy of mine insisted i come over to his place.
he cooked me dinner and we played rock band, so i clearly couldnt turn it down. then he made me watch the 1st and 2nd star wars (which i guess were actually made 4th and 5th...since they're the newer ones). all i gotta say is George Lucas is one F****** up dude....the things this man thinks of........AMAZING!!!!

so ya, i guess i'm a huge dork now....alas......but on the plus side, i'm getting pretty damn good at rockband!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

There is a great discussion about the star wars prequels, and why they suck, on the lounge.

 

[cuddlepuppy]

"why did i choose allopathic"?
i wanted to be at an institution that was at the cutting edge and would allow me to do some research. my ultimate goal is to start a fellowship or be a director of an ortho program. i applied to 7 DO programs, got only 2 interviews, and would have been thrilled to go to the one i actually rotated at. i think that DO program rivals most of the community MD programs that i interviewed at. also, i worked very hard in med school and wanted the best program that i could get into. not to say that MD is better than DO, but for my goals, the MD program i was lucky enough to get into had everything i could ever dream of.

"do DO programs train you better to operate once you're done"?
i think my MD vs DO ortho program generalization may have thrown you off. you'll find more academic MD programs vs DO ones, but that's just because of the sheer volume of MD programs relatively speaking. i think many of the MD community programs were similar to the DO community programs as well. Also, some DO academic programs rivaled some of the MD programs. either way, i think we all come out ready to practice general orthopedics. at my program, we have many DO orthopods doing fellowships, so you could always do a DO ortho program and an MD fellowship.

"sports medicine routes"
keep in mind that FP/IM - sports fellowship, ortho -sports fellowship, and PM&R - sports fellowships are all very different. the first is more of your non-operative orthopedics. being a team doc on the sidelines, pre-sports physicals, etc. the second is more surgical ortho specialized to treat complex ACL, rotator cuff, meniscal injuries. the last, is more sports related rehab, injections, ultrasound, EMG/nerve conduction. so don't get fooled, they are all very different under the same umbrella

 

[cuddlepuppy]

also, PM&R is not a glorified physical therapist...i think if they heard that they'd flip. realize that PM&R does require a lot of rehabilitation, but not necessarily ortho post-op related. there is traumatic brain injury rehabilitation, stroke rehabilitation, spinal cord rehab, injections, ultrasound, EMG/nerve conduction, amputee care, pain management, prosthetic/orthotic fitting, etc. more than just PT. you're right though, as DO's, our extra training in manipulation has a great arena for use and benefit. at the program i'm at, i think 1/3 to 1/2 of the residents in PM&R are DO's.

 

[RySerr21]

"why did i choose allopathic"?
i wanted to be at an institution that was at the cutting edge and would allow me to do some research. my ultimate goal is to start a fellowship or be a director of an ortho program. i applied to 7 DO programs, got only 2 interviews, and would have been thrilled to go to the one i actually rotated at. i think that DO program rivals most of the community MD programs that i interviewed at. also, i worked very hard in med school and wanted the best program that i could get into. not to say that MD is better than DO, but for my goals, the MD program i was lucky enough to get into had everything i could ever dream of.

"do DO programs train you better to operate once you're done"?
i think my MD vs DO ortho program generalization may have thrown you off. you'll find more academic MD programs vs DO ones, but that's just because of the sheer volume of MD programs relatively speaking. i think many of the MD community programs were similar to the DO community programs as well. Also, some DO academic programs rivaled some of the MD programs. either way, i think we all come out ready to practice general orthopedics. at my program, we have many DO orthopods doing fellowships, so you could always do a DO ortho program and an MD fellowship.

"sports medicine routes"
keep in mind that FP/IM - sports fellowship, ortho -sports fellowship, and PM&R - sports fellowships are all very different. the first is more of your non-operative orthopedics. being a team doc on the sidelines, pre-sports physicals, etc. the second is more surgical ortho specialized to treat complex ACL, rotator cuff, meniscal injuries. the last, is more sports related rehab, injections, ultrasound, EMG/nerve conduction. so don't get fooled, they are all very different under the same umbrella

ortho sports med docs can be team docs on the sideline too yea? thats like my dream....to be an ortho doc for the 49ers...or the USA rugby team....that would be AWESOME

how do you get into sports med w/ big teams like that? just make connections?

 

[cuddlepuppy]

professional team doc: need to be a big name, sports fellowship, definitely who you know. BUT, you have to pay the franchise to get the rights to say you're the team doc, deal with whining professional athletes. not in the cards for me.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Orthopedic surgery BABIES? ARE YOU SERIOUS?! Just a little reminder, orthopedics is not a sorority.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Whatever dude. I'm thinking about rushing ortho when the time comes.

 

[t-funk]

My biggest interest right now is either anes or PM&R with pain management but I have alot of other interests too. I have been perusing the PM&R boards for a few months. I can't wait to start doing rotations and figure out what I am going to do.

I was interested in psych doing drug rehab for the longest time until I found out about PM & R. I didn't even know that it existed. I have been interested ever since I found out about it.

 

[OCHO]

Whatever dude. I'm thinking about rushing ortho when the time comes.

That makes two of us...

Out of curiosity, what color dress do we need to buy to rush this so ro?

 

[fbf]

I was interested in psych doing drug rehab for the longest time until I found out about PM & R. I didn't even know that it existed. I have been interested ever since I found out about it.

PMR??? I can't tell enough about the three PMR doctors I have worked with. All they care about is how to get the most from insurance companies. They would do ANYTHING to get the money. "you need EMG", " you need cortisone injection", "you need ...". I am sorry but these are all I learned from those PMRs. They are more like businessmen. And you compare this w/ pain management? There are many PMRs out there claiming themselves as "pain management". What do patients know?
No offense, but PMRs are not doctors IMHO.

 

[DocJulez]

PMR??? I can't tell enough about the three PMR doctors I have worked with. All they care about is how to get the most from insurance companies. They would do ANYTHING to get the money. "you need EMG", " you need cortisone injection", "you need ...". I am sorry but these are all I learned from those PMRs. They are more like businessmen. And you compare this w/ pain management? There are many PMRs out there claiming themselves as "pain management". What do patients know?
No offense, but PMRs are not doctors IMHO.

And you're basing this on THREE whole doctors? wow, well that must be very descriptive of the entire population of PM&R doctors in the world.

come on, for a "smart person" thats a pretty freakin stupid thing to say.

and for the record, my physiatrist is the only doctor that was able to figure out what was wrong with my back.....after i saw numerous surgeons and other specialists. so IMHO, PMR docs are DOCTORS!!!!!!!!! my god, this is stupid, i dont know why i even answer these posts.

 

[igcgnerd]

For all you future orthopods: I got to see a cool reduction of a perilunate dislocation last night. Very rare injury. It was done by flexation of the wrist and manual manipulation of the lunate.

 

[Seneca20]

And you're basing this on THREE whole doctors? wow, well that must be very descriptive of the entire population of PM&R doctors in the world.

come on, for a "smart person" thats a pretty freakin stupid thing to say.

and for the record, my physiatrist is the only doctor that was able to figure out what was wrong with my back.....after i saw numerous surgeons and other specialists. so IMHO, PMR docs are DOCTORS!!!!!!!!! my god, this is stupid, i dont know why i even answer these posts.

Careful Julez, with fbf's obviously vast knowledge of PM&R docs he/she may not know what you meant by Physiatry.

Sorry to be a little harsh fbf, but Julez has a point. To judge an entire specialty by 3 of it's practitioners is pretty short sighted. Every specialty out there has good and bad Doctors, greedy and philanthropic. Take a wider sampling....

 

[Thantis]

For all you future orthopods: I got to see a cool reduction of a perilunate dislocation last night. Very rare injury. It was done by flexation of the wrist and manual manipulation of the lunate.

Looks quite interesting: http://www.wheelessonline.com/ortho/perilunate_dislocations

 

[DocJulez]

Careful Julez, with fbf's obviously vast knowledge of PM&R docs he/she may not know what you meant by Physiatry.

Sorry to be a little harsh fbf, but Julez has a point. To judge an entire specialty by 3 of it's practitioners is pretty short sighted. Every specialty out there has good and bad Doctors, greedy and philanthropic. Take a wider sampling....

lol.
nicely said. i had a rough day at work today, but seriously, i wish ppl wouldnt be so silly with this stuff. seriously. oh well, i'm happy with it, so i dont care what anyone else thinks about the profession. meh

 

[JaggerPlate]

PMR??? I can't tell enough about the three PMR doctors I have worked with. All they care about is how to get the most from insurance companies. They would do ANYTHING to get the money. "you need EMG", " you need cortisone injection", "you need ...". I am sorry but these are all I learned from those PMRs. They are more like businessmen. And you compare this w/ pain management? There are many PMRs out there claiming themselves as "pain management". What do patients know?
No offense, but PMRs are not doctors IMHO.

Yeah, four years of med school, one of internship, and three of residency = not a doctor in your esteemed opinion. And you are??? Also, pain management is a fellowship that many complete after a PM&R residency. If you can explain how a PM&R doc trying to make money is any different from any other physician trying to make a living, I would love to hear it. In your opinion, is a plastic surgeon stuffing fake boobs into a 98 pound model a doctor, because it seems like they are doing so to make money?? Just curious. Did you ever consider that these tests could have been important diagnostic tools??? Pathetic.

 

[fbf]

Okay, you guys are right I guess. But experience with the 3 physiatrists I shadowed really messed my mind up.
Another "fact", anaesth+ pain management is far better than PMR + pain management.

 

[fbf]

Yeah, four years of med school, one of internship, and three of residency = not a doctor in your esteemed opinion. And you are??? Also, pain management is a fellowship that many complete after a PM&R residency. If you can explain how a PM&R doc trying to make money is any different from any other physician trying to make a living, I would love to hear it. In your opinion, is a plastic surgeon stuffing fake boobs into a 98 pound model a doctor, because it seems like they are doing so to make money?? Just curious. Did you ever consider that these tests could have been important diagnostic tools??? Pathetic.

Apparently you have no clue how most PMR doctors run their business and how they bill the insurance companies.
whatever, I will just leave my "pathetic" stories to myself.

 

[metalmd06]

also, PM&R is not a glorified physical therapist...i think if they heard that they'd flip. realize that PM&R does require a lot of rehabilitation, but not necessarily ortho post-op related. there is traumatic brain injury rehabilitation, stroke rehabilitation, spinal cord rehab, injections, ultrasound, EMG/nerve conduction, amputee care, pain management, prosthetic/orthotic fitting, etc. more than just PT. you're right though, as DO's, our extra training in manipulation has a great arena for use and benefit. at the program i'm at, i think 1/3 to 1/2 of the residents in PM&R are DO's.

Ha, if my girlfriend heard you say this, she'd flip. She's a PT and she does way more than just ortho post-op therapy. She works in acute care and she sees a variety of patients that include post-amputation, TBI, and respiratory patients. There are many areas of "specialization" that you can go into as a PT. Two of her friends are exlcusively neuro PTs that deal with patients who have had TBIs or have some other neurological defecit or illness. The only thing on that list that a PT can't do is injections. Also, even though she isn't a physician, she has a DPT so she is technically a "doctor," even though she isn't portal of entry (i.e. script or doctor's orders have to indicate PT). So I would say that the difference between a PT and a PM&R specialized physician lies in clinical competance, diagnostics and the ability to prescribe.

 

[metalmd06]

Why is ortho so uber-competitive??

 

[JaggerPlate]

Okay, you guys are right I guess. But experience with the 3 physiatrists I shadowed really messed my mind up.
Another "fact", anaesth+ pain management is far better than PMR + pain management.

A few things:

1. I think you need to look up 'fact' before you continue in this thread.

2. It's traditionally slightly easier to land a pain management fellowship after gas (most likely because there are far more), but there are still many opportunities for PM&R. Also, I don't know what the hell you mean by 'better,' but as far as salary, it's the same (assuming these people practice pain exclusively and not pain + time in OR doing gas or pain + running PM&R clinic).

3. Your pov was 'pathetic' because you were basing it one experience you had with one practice. Hardly any damning evidence there. Also, I still don't see how these guys trying to make money is any different from the examples I listed. I'm curious and would definitely be interested in hearing your experience.

 

[BeachBlondie]

Chuckwalla...

You need to calm down, bru. I'm fully aware that it's "not a sorority". Nor do I have, or care to have, any dealings with such a thing. We have to deal with death and dying as doctors, so lighten up!

 

[Buckeye4life]

Also, even though she isn't a physician, she has a DPT so she is technically a "doctor," even though she isn't portal of entry (i.e. script or doctor's orders have to indicate PT).

While the majority of PT is prescribed by a physician, and insurance is not likely to reimburse without a script, about 48 states have direct access in which you can see a physical therapist without a physician referral. Whether this is a good thing for the profession or PTs are qualified enough to screen a pt seen directly (I think the majority are capable enough), is another topic.

 

[bravotwozero]

Why is ortho so uber-competitive??

Good financial prospects, and too few spots for too many applicants.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Chuckwalla...

You need to calm down, bru. I'm fully aware that it's "not a sorority". Nor do I have, or care to have, any dealings with such a thing. We have to deal with death and dying as doctors, so lighten up!

Bru?

Anyway, orthopods do not see much death and dying, unless they are in orthopedic oncology or are bad at their job.

 

[OCHO]

Bru?

Anyway, orthopods do not see much death and dying, unless they are in orthopedic oncology or are bad at their job.

Chuckwalla, where did you do your ortho res?

 

[RySerr21]

Bru?

Anyway, orthopods do not see much death and dying, unless they are in orthopedic oncology or are bad at their job.

i think "bru" is meant to be "br-uh." it probably should have been spelled "brah" if that is the case.

For example:

go with christ, bruh. - Eric Cartman

 

[OCHO]

Looks quite interesting: http://www.wheelessonline.com/ortho/perilunate_dislocations

Thantis, did you actually read that website? I did and it freaked me out. There were words on there that my tiny little brain has never processed next others that I have never seen or used in a sentence before.

Man, am I stupid!

 

[Chuckwalla]

Chuckwalla, where did you do your ortho res?

You don't have to be an orthopedic surgeon to know that hip and knee replacements do not involve a lot of death and dying.

 

[OCHO]

You don't have to be an orthopedic surgeon to know that hip and knee replacements do not involve a lot of death and dying.

I didnt realize ortho was just hip and knee replacements...

Cool something else I have learned from you that will be TOTALLY USELESS in med school.

 

[RySerr21]

ChuckWalla

OCHO

 

[OCHO]

[=quote] ChuckWalla

[=quote] OCHO [/quote]

[/quote]

Pass the popcorn brah! hehehe

 

[DocJulez]

You don't have to be an orthopedic surgeon to know that hip and knee replacements do not involve a lot of death and dying.

ya i've heard those anterior spinal sugeries are a piece of cake too. i think i mite go for one tomorrow, after i get my nails did......

oh gosh. dude, if you dont like this thread just DONT POST ON IT.

nobody is holding a gun to ur head.........unless somebody is............ in that case, turn around and judo chop them. otherwise, remove the hands from the keyboard and walk away......

 

[OCHO]

ya i've heard those anterior spinal sugeries are a piece of cake too. i think i mite go for one tomorrow, after i get my nails did......

oh gosh. dude, if you dont like this thread just DONT POST ON IT.

nobody is holding a gun to ur head.........unless somebody is............ in that case, turn around and judo chop them. otherwise, remove the hands from the keyboard and walk away......

HIGH FIVE! Back atcha!

 

[Thantis]

Thantis, did you actually read that website? I did and it freaked me out. There were words on there that my tiny little brain has never processed next others that I have never seen or used in a sentence before.

Man, am I stupid!

I googled it and finally found one that seemed quite informative. Most others were 2-3 sentence definitions. That one had pics and all the good stuff. But as to my processing it, I knew some from working in the hospital and doing my surgical shadowing, but most of it I didn't let it get to me. There are times like I feel I won't be ready and that I must know all of it NOW, but then I come to my senses...have someone near me slap me around....& thus realize that it is foolish to have that mindset. Step-by-step...that is how we learn.


God, I wish had that educator machine from Battlefield Earth. Would be the best thing in the world.