Orthopedic Surgery or Neurosurgery??

[WorkingTowardsMD123]

Hello all,

I'm new here-- I am just a student in college who wants to eventually become a doctor. I struggled with health complications for 4 years as a result of anorexia and now that I am recovered I want to be a meaningful person in others' lives. However! -- I do not want to go into psychiatry or even work with anorexia, because that field hits too close to home and even trying to help my friends with anorexia brings post-traumatic flashbacks to my mind.

I want to either become an Orthopedic Surgeon or a Neurosurgeon, as both fields are EXTREMELY intriguing to me. I am a straight-A student and have a very high work ethic. That said, I want to raise a family in the next ten years or so. I know that both of those fields often require hella long hours and neuro has a 5-7 year residency. I am willing to put in the work to do what I love, but not if it means there isn't time for family.....

Also, can anyone here provide input about whether they think their job was "worth it" (Ortho or Neuro)?

I probably sound very naive as I say these things. I recognize I am a teen still and do not entirely know what I am talking about. Nonetheless, I am really curious to know the pros and cons of each specialty, especially in regards to family time and level of interest.

Thank you soooo much.

---

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[TypeADissection]

Finishing up neurosurgery pgy4, ask me anything

ortho attending AMA

Pour yourself a glass of wine (only if you're > 21). Settle in. These are good places to get started. You have a lot of time so no need to worry about specialties just yet. But this forum is a goldmine for those willing to look.

PS - Also consider vascular surgery. Robust and healthy patient base. Extremely compliant. Short procedures. Minimal complications. Cheers.

 

[Chicken Little]

You might have to post in the MD thread rather than the pre-MD thread. You'll get a lot more traction there.

From the neurosurgeon I shadowed and the many ortho/neuro residents it will ultimately come down to your values. All the orthopods and neurosurgeons I know outsource as much of the work they can so they can spend as much quality time with their families and not argue about who has to clean the laundry and what not.

For example, one of the neurosurgeons I know has a cleaning maid, gardeners to mow the lawn and, well, maintain the yard in general, and dog walkers. Ultimately, from what I understand, residency is brutal, but as an attending you have the power to dictate what kind of hours you want to put in. The attendings I know all believed their work was very valuable and as a result worked long hours.

 

[deleted870424]

Get into med school first. Baby steps.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Finishing up neurosurgery pgy4, ask me anything

ortho attending AMA

Pour yourself a glass of wine (only if you're > 21). Settle in. These are good places to get started. You have a lot of time so no need to worry about specialties just yet. But this forum is a goldmine for those willing to look.

PS - Also consider vascular surgery. Robust and healthy patient base. Extremely compliant. Short procedures. Minimal complications. Cheers.

Your last paragraph...gold


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

PS - Also consider vascular surgery. Robust and healthy patient base. Extremely compliant. Short procedures. Minimal complications. Cheers.

Lmao.

 

[Dagrimsta1]

As a current medical student, I’m gonna say this

Chill the **** out

 

[Goro]

Hello all,

I'm new here-- I am just a student in college who wants to eventually become a doctor. I struggled with health complications for 4 years as a result of anorexia and now that I am recovered I want to be a meaningful person in others' lives. However! -- I do not want to go into psychiatry or even work with anorexia, because that field hits too close to home and even trying to help my friends with anorexia brings post-traumatic flashbacks to my mind.

I want to either become an Orthopedic Surgeon or a Neurosurgeon, as both fields are EXTREMELY intriguing to me. I am a straight-A student and have a very high work ethic. That said, I want to raise a family in the next ten years or so. I know that both of those fields often require hella long hours and neuro has a 5-7 year residency. I am willing to put in the work to do what I love, but not if it means there isn't time for family.....

Also, can anyone here provide input about whether they think their job was "worth it" (Ortho or Neuro)?

I probably sound very naive as I say these things. I recognize I am a teen still and do not entirely know what I am talking about. Nonetheless, I am really curious to know the pros and cons of each specialty, especially in regards to family time and level of interest.

Thank you soooo much.

Have you shadowed a neurosurgeon or Orthopod?

 

[treesnm3s]

The ortho spine doc I've shadowed over the last few years and everyone else I've met in the field (techs, scrub nurses, etc.) say that ortho beats neurosurgery in terms of training and lifestyle. Overall, ortho and neurosurgery are two very different surgical subspecialties (unless specifically talking about spine). Ortho is a very broad field. You can do trauma, foot and ankle, hip, etc. The patient populations are hugely different too.

FWIW, a lot of neurosurgeons structure their practice do do exactly what ortho spine docs do (spine only, no brain) and don't get compensated as well from what I've heard. I think it boils down to the types of surgeries you want to do and how long you want to train. Neuro is 7 years, ortho spine is 5+1 (and ortho spine is really the only way I think the two are comparable).

 

[Durty-Trixxx]

PS - Also consider vascular surgery. Robust and healthy patient base. Extremely compliant. Short procedures. Minimal complications. Cheers.

Very funny but also kinda disgusting to pick on a teen kid with an inside joke like that. Shame on you !!

 

[Durty-Trixxx]

Neurosurgery has about 200 training spots a year with Ortho about 725. These are competed for by the about 20,000 US MD seniors and 10,000 others. When you start medical school, you do not know where you wind up for residency but most students will wind up in IM, FP, Peds, Psych, EM, Gas, As I warn all premeds do not go down this path unless you can see yoursel practicing family medicine is some mid west suburb

There should be some kind of federal law mandating ALL pre-meds and pre-med wannabes attend a lecture to hear this kind of truth.

Every student entering med school should have the mindset that it would be a privilege and an honor to spend the rest of his/her life serving as a generalist for inner city or rural population and making a barely livable wage doing it. Sadly, 80-90% of all entering pre-meds think they are going to end up as Chief of Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins and spending half their work week at the country club working on the golf handicap.

 

[camtheram1815]

These are competed for by the about 20,000 US MD seniors and 10,000 others

Neurosurgery had a 90% match rate with ~225 applicants competing for 203 spots. Is it self-selective and extremely competitive still? Sure. But don't make it seem like 20,000 people are applying for 200 spots to this poor guy b/c that is simply not true.

Go for your dreams, OP. If you want it, make it happen don't let anyone tell you differently. Just make sure you really want it before you go.

 

[DokterMom]

Congratulations for beating your anorexia. That's quite an achievement! But please, please don't take your mental health for granted. You need to take care of your mental health as vigilantly as you care for your physical health, and as for someone who has suffered from anorexia, this goes double. As our wise @Goro frequently says, med school is a furnace that breaks even the healthiest applicants. People with perfectionist tendencies tend to suffer particularly.

I'm NOT suggesting you can't do it. I'm suggesting that the level of performance needed to reach Ortho or Neurosurgery will come at great price, putting an incredible strain on your mental health. You'll be at a huge risk of relapse, in which case you wouldn't be able to help anyone.

Your insight and compassion can be so valuable in so many fields -- pediatrics, OB/Gyn, family medicine, emergency medicine. Keep your options open and - as has been said -- baby steps.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

FWIW, a lot of neurosurgeons structure their practice do do exactly what ortho spine docs do (spine only, no brain) and don't get compensated as well from what I've heard.

Definitely not true.

 

[treesnm3s]

Definitely not true.

Which part exactly? A lot of neurosurgeons only do spine.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Which part exactly? A lot of neurosurgeons only do spine.

That they're compensated less for the same procedures.

 

[camtheram1815]

I deal with so many premeds who literally have no idea how specialties are selected and they need to understand prior to medical school what may and will happen. of the approx 19,000 US MD seniors last year, about 13,500 wound up in IM, FP, Peds, Psych, EM, or Gas. Applicants must understand that they can easily windup as an IM or FP in suburban midwest for their practice. People need to go into this with their eyes wide open. Most applicants only know "I gotta get into medical school" with a vague idea of what happens after acceptance much less how residency and specialties work. I have spoken to many docs who have or soon will complete residency, under 30, still driving the same car they did in UG, often not having a reasonable romantic relationship in the past decade, already cynical and even bitter about a profession they have yet to practice an independent day in their lives.

I think you are over generalizing a bit here, and it doesn't necessarily correlate with my experience with a lot of premeds, med students, and docs (i.e. everything thinking they will be a neurosurgeon). But fair enough. Just make sure you present the data right is all.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think you are over generalizing a bit here, and it doesn't necessarily correlate with my experience with a lot of premeds, med students, and docs (i.e. everything thinking they will be a neurosurgeon). But fair enough. Just make sure you present the data right is all.

The majority of premeds I know aren't like that, but I have known a few who are.

 

[LebronManning]

FWIW, a lot of neurosurgeons structure their practice do do exactly what ortho spine docs do (spine only, no brain) and don't get compensated as well from what I've heard.

Why would a Neurosurgeon doing only spine get compensated any differently than an orthopedic spine surgeon doing spine.........?

Not an actual question. The answer is they don't haha. And also for the first part of your response, it would make sense that orthopods would say the ortho route is better..

 

[LebronManning]

One's a neurosurgeon, the other is ortho spine

Huh? They both get paid the same for the same procedures lol.

 

[Dox4lyfe]

Neurosurgery had a 90% match rate with ~225 applicants competing for 203 spots. Is it self-selective and extremely competitive still? Sure. But don't make it seem like 20,000 people are applying for 200 spots to this poor guy b/c that is simply not true.

Go for your dreams, OP. If you want it, make it happen don't let anyone tell you differently. Just make sure you really want it before you go.

I agree with what you said, but needed to point out that your read the data wrong lol. The 90% is for the percent of US seniors who filled nsg spots (not match rate). Overall, 325 applicants applied for 225 spots, which comes out to an overall 69% match rate.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

One's a neurosurgeon, the other is ortho spine

They still bill for the same procedures. If one makes more, it’s because they work more or do more of the higher paying procedures, not because they are one specialty or the other.

 

[Dox4lyfe]

They still bill for the same procedures. If one makes more, it’s because they work more or do more of the higher paying procedures, not because they are one specialty or the other.

No but ortho spine has spine in the title, so they can charge more.

 

[treesnm3s]

Why would a Neurosurgeon doing only spine get compensated any differently than an orthopedic spine surgeon doing spine.........?

Not an actual question. The answer is they don't haha. And also for the first part of your response, it would make sense that orthopods would say the ortho route is better..

The ortho spine doc I've shadowed over the last few years and everyone else I've met in the field (techs, scrub nurses, etc.) say that ortho beats neurosurgery in terms of training and lifestyle. Overall, ortho and neurosurgery are two very different surgical subspecialties (unless specifically talking about spine). Ortho is a very broad field. You can do trauma, foot and ankle, hip, etc. The patient populations are hugely different too.

FWIW, a lot of neurosurgeons structure their practice do do exactly what ortho spine docs do (spine only, no brain) and don't get compensated as well from what I've heard. I think it boils down to the types of surgeries you want to do and how long you want to train. Neuro is 7 years, ortho spine is 5+1 (and ortho spine is really the only way I think the two are comparable).

Selective reading fam? It didn't make much sense when I heard it (from the mouths of two orthopods...), I'm just letting y'all know what I have heard. Is it possible there is some billing discrepancy between them?

And of course orthopods would say that, they're biased. But RNs/techs that work with both surgeons and more have said ortho > neurosurgery from my experience.

 

[camtheram1815]

I agree with what you said, but needed to point out that your read the data wrong lol. The 90% is for the percent of US seniors who filled nsg spots (not match rate). Overall, 325 applicants applied for 225 spots, which comes out to an overall 69% match rate.

I should have mentioned I was only looking at US MD grads since that is what the previous user said with "20,000" - but yes thanks

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

And of course orthopods would say that, they're biased. But RNs/techs that work with both surgeons and more have said ortho > neurosurgery from my experience.

I was an OR tech for almost a decade and worked quite extensively with ortho spine and neurosurgeons. The techs and RNs who told you that were probably speculating based on how many cases each does. An ortho spine doc who does more spine cases will make more money. They still get paid the same for the same procedure.

 

[getdown]

I was an OR tech for almost a decade and worked quite extensively with ortho spine and neurosurgeons. The techs and RNs who told you that were probably speculating based on how many cases each does. An ortho spine doc who does more spine cases will make more money. They still get paid the same for the same procedure.

Anesthesia still beats both hands down. Get to sit down, get breaks, pee when you need to and not have to do a surgical residency. Boom

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Anesthesia still beats both hands down. Get to sit down, get breaks, pee when you need to and not have to do a surgical residency. Boom

You’re not wrong.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Anesthesia still beats both hands down. Get to sit down, get breaks, pee when you need to and not have to do a surgical residency. Boom

Eh

 

[LebronManning]

Selective reading fam? It didn't make much sense when I heard it (from the mouths of two orthopods...), I'm just letting y'all know what I have heard. Is it possible there is some billing discrepancy between them?

And of course orthopods would say that, they're biased. But RNs/techs that work with both surgeons and more have said ortho > neurosurgery from my experience.

Yeah we’re just saying what you heard was wrong. Whoever bills more cases will make more money. That’s up to the surgeon and not their specialty. If anything, neurosurgeons have a greater scope of practice when it comes to spine surgery since they can go beneath the dura.

For the RNs/Techs that said Ortho>NSGY, I guess I just don’t know what that means lol. Maybe the ortho guys play better music in the OR? I don’t think support staff knows enough to distinguish specialties haha. Like you said, they are completely different specialties. IMO, you can’t compare ortho to arguably the most prestigious profession around: Neurosurgery, just because there is some overlap in spine.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah we’re just saying what you heard was wrong. Whoever bills more cases will make more money. That’s up to the surgeon and not their specialty. If anything, neurosurgeons have a greater scope of practice when it comes to spine surgery since they can go beneath the dura.

For the RNs/Techs that said Ortho>NSGY, I guess I just don’t know what that means lol. Maybe the ortho guys play better music in the OR? I don’t think support staff knows enough to distinguish specialties haha. Like you said, they are completely different specialties. IMO, you can’t compare ortho to arguably the most prestigious profession around: Neurosurgery, just because there is some overlap in spine.

IME, the orthopods tend to be easier going. Their rooms were more fun and lighthearted for the same procedures. The neurosurgeons were pretty much without fail much more high strung or, at the very best, completely silent lol. People tend to make judgements of quality and skill based on how much they like the surgeon and how stressed out they seemed during cases.

 

[treesnm3s]

Yeah we’re just saying what you heard was wrong. Whoever bills more cases will make more money. That’s up to the surgeon and not their specialty. If anything, neurosurgeons have a greater scope of practice when it comes to spine surgery since they can go beneath the dura.

For the RNs/Techs that said Ortho>NSGY, I guess I just don’t know what that means lol. Maybe the ortho guys play better music in the OR? I don’t think support staff knows enough to distinguish specialties haha. Like you said, they are completely different specialties. IMO, you can’t compare ortho to arguably the most prestigious profession around: Neurosurgery, just because there is some overlap in spine.

IME, the orthopods tend to be easier going. Their rooms were more fun and lighthearted for the same procedures. The neurosurgeons were pretty much without fail much more high strung or, at the very best, completely silent lol. People tend to make judgements of quality and skill based on how much they like the surgeon and how stressed out they seemed during cases.

Oh okay gotcha. The support staff made comments on their general personalities, time off, exotic vacations, family life, etc.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

FWIW, a lot of neurosurgeons structure their practice do do exactly what ortho spine docs do (spine only, no brain) and don't get compensated as well from what I've heard

Nah, either way spine is essentially a license to print money.

Edit: just saw I was late to the party lol

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Edit: just saw I was late to the party lol

Typical.

 

[Durty-Trixxx]

Anesthesia still beats both hands down. Get to sit down, get breaks, pee when you need to and not have to do a surgical residency. Boom

Anesthesia was my first MS3 rotation and on Day 1 I asked the attending what I needed to know about the rotation --- he responded with "Anesthesia is 99% boredom punctuated by 1% sheer terror". I bet Neurosurgery and Ortho can't say the same thing

 

[mmmcdowe]

Orthopedic surgeons and neurosurgeons come at spine surgeries from slightly different angles. Orthopedic surgeons see the spine much more biomechanically because that's what there field does. Neurosurgeons are more focused on the neural elements. These can lead to practice variations in what procedures are favored.

As far as billing the amount of compensation for procedures does vary a little regionally. Hospital contracts may also include bonuses or caps for reaching certain rvu goals. This may be different for a senior versus junior surgeon but has nothing to do with specialty.

 

[treesnm3s]

It's pretty hilarious when premeds want to go into surgery with just some shadowing hours or research. As someone finishing my surgery rotation, you have ZERO idea what it is like being a surgeon and could never make that career decision without actual experience.

Couldn't be the same thing be said for being a regular physician? Or any professional that requires extensive, postgruduate training for that matter?

I thought that was the whole point of shadowing...

 

[IgEdoc]

Nothing wrong with dreaming about so called “glamorous” fields in Medicine . If it’s a driving force to get you into med school, all the better. Reality will hit you once in your clerkship years and you will come to reason on what you really want to do in Medicine (with some fine tuning in residency, perhaps).

 

[LebronManning]

Which is more competitive to match? Seems like people generally say Ortho but neurosurgery has almost 1/4 of the positions that Ortho does.

Also, anyone with experience dealing with residents/attendings in these fields, what do you see as the difference in personality between the average person that goes into these specialties? Obviously people choose the fields for their interest in the actual organ systems, but I've found that all specialties have their own personality if you will.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Which is more competitive to match? Seems like people generally say Ortho but neurosurgery has almost 1/4 of the positions that Ortho does.

Also, anyone with experience dealing with residents/attendings in these fields, what do you see as the difference in personality between the average person that goes into these specialties? Obviously people choose the fields for their interest in the actual organ systems, but I've found that all specialties have their own personality if you will.

I've never heard anyone say ortho is more competitive than neurosurg.

 

[resiroth]

I did back


I deal with so many premeds who literally have no idea how specialties are selected and they need to understand prior to medical school what may and will happen. of the approx 19,000 US MD seniors last year, about 13,500 wound up in IM, FP, Peds, Psych, EM, or Gas. Applicants must understand that they can easily windup as an IM or FP in suburban midwest for their practice. People need to go into this with their eyes wide open. Most applicants only know "I gotta get into medical school" with a vague idea of what happens after acceptance much less how residency and specialties work. I have spoken to many docs who have or soon will complete residency, under 30, still driving the same car they did in UG, often not having a reasonable romantic relationship in the past decade, already cynical and even bitter about a profession they have yet to practice an independent day in their lives.

You act like being in those fields is a death sentence or something. >70% of medical students don't end up in the field they initially thought they would go into. That's not because everyone gets garbage scores, it's because you realize sometime around 9 hours into a spine case on Friday night that you never want to look at a spine again. 36 hour shift = no thanks.

The reality is for people not at DO schools (which indeed are often limited by bias) most people end up pursuing a "less competitive" field because they realize they don't want to put in the insane hours required by most of the "competitive" fields, or they want to practice in 4 years not 8.

I'd take 275k and 35 hours (psych) with a 4 year residency over 700k with 8 year 100 hour neurosurgery residency followed by 60 hours a week as an attending...but really there are OB GYNs making 100k a year at FQHC serving the poor, and OB GYNs making 2 million with their privately owned cash-only REI clinic. Your practice location, fellowship, hours, entrepreneurial spirit all matter far more than what residency you go to.

Maybe you're saying that people should go in without a fixation on a particular field, which I agree with...but I also want to make sure people realize that the process of switching from neurosurgery to psych or EM isn't "oh damn I didn't score high enough on the step" so much as it is "holy crap I've been up for so many hours I feel like I'm actively dying and want to pursue a more "regular" specialty that lets me eat and sleep and maybe even see my SO."

 

[LizzyM]

Just trying to say how many people come to me (often with their parents) saying I only want to go to a Top 20 and only be a neurosurgeon. They better realize that they mind windup some place else

I wonder how many want to do it because it is considered the most competitive or the most difficult to master, or the most prestigious or providing the greatest evidence of one's intelligence or something along those lines and not for a desire to do the day-to-day work of neurosurgery.

 

[trobinsonmd]

Hello all,

I'm new here-- I am just a student in college who wants to eventually become a doctor. I struggled with health complications for 4 years as a result of anorexia and now that I am recovered I want to be a meaningful person in others' lives. However! -- I do not want to go into psychiatry or even work with anorexia, because that field hits too close to home and even trying to help my friends with anorexia brings post-traumatic flashbacks to my mind.

I want to either become an Orthopedic Surgeon or a Neurosurgeon, as both fields are EXTREMELY intriguing to me. I am a straight-A student and have a very high work ethic. That said, I want to raise a family in the next ten years or so. I know that both of those fields often require hella long hours and neuro has a 5-7 year residency. I am willing to put in the work to do what I love, but not if it means there isn't time for family.....

Also, can anyone here provide input about whether they think their job was "worth it" (Ortho or Neuro)?

I probably sound very naive as I say these things. I recognize I am a teen still and do not entirely know what I am talking about. Nonetheless, I am really curious to know the pros and cons of each specialty, especially in regards to family time and level of interest.

Thank you soooo much.

It's good that you are aware that you sound slightly naive, as it is way too early to be thinking about these things... however, I was also one of those pre-meds in college who was thinking about specialties at 17. I went into med school 4 years ago dead set one of the more competitive surgical specialties and I didn't see myself doing literally anything else. Got to shadow in the OR, wasn't feeling it... my personality did not click with it and I hated the hours... it really is hard work... nonetheless, I was still enamored with the idea of becoming a surgeon... so I kept plowing on and thought I was going to apply to surgical specialties. I think as a college student, people tend to be into the idea of neuro and ortho because they get more publicity and people don't know about other cool specialties out there, I got to shadow interventional rads and cards and loved both but didn't pick either because of the lead aprons and long hours on my feet... ended up picking derm... moral of the story is, many people go in obsessed with one specialty and they come out with a completely different specialty. I have a few friends who are residents in neuro and they love it, but they also never get to spend time with their family and they tend to have relationship issues... after residency you get to decide how much you work based on the type of gig you find usually

 

[WorkingTowardsMD123]

UPDATE:

I have decided I am not going to focus that hard on specialties, maybe I will once I actually get into med school (God-willing). I am really young. So thank you all for your kind and thoughtful responses...
BTW my motivation for being a doctor is not glamour; rather, I want to make a positive change in the world & in my community.
The field of medicine has intrigued me since age 10. I realize now that I should focus on the small steps first. Get into med school. Live in the moment.

Peace out!

 

[resiroth]

Just trying to say how many people come to me (often with their parents) saying I only want to go to a Top 20 and only be a neurosurgeon. They better realize that they mind windup some place else

Absolutely, I just was personally under the impression once upon a time that people ended up being filtered out of their original ambitions. While that happens to some people I’m sure, plenty of my friends with 250 step end up pursuing pretty non demanding careers in gas, psych, em etc.

I wonder how much of that is just shifting priorities (family etc), vs. change in interest.

I still love surgical subspecialties from an interest standpoint, but there was no way I wanted to do those hours, especially when I was 50+

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

UPDATE:

I have decided I am not going to focus that hard on specialties, maybe I will once I actually get into med school (God-willing). I am really young. So thank you all for your kind and thoughtful responses...
BTW my motivation for being a doctor is not glamour; rather, I want to make a positive change in the world & in my community.
The field of medicine has intrigued me since age 10. I realize now that I should focus on the small steps first. Get into med school. Live in the moment.

Peace out!

Holy crap. Someone who listened to good advice and didn’t succumb to confirmation bias and defensiveness. Good on you. Good luck!

 

[Welshman]

I would highly recommend reading When Breath Becomes Air for anyone but it’s an added bonus if you’re premed and interested in neurosurgery

 

[resiroth]

I would highly recommend reading When Breath Becomes Air for anyone but it’s an added bonus if you’re premed and interested in neurosurgery

Lol that book was so depressing. Dude finished his residency instead of spending it with his wife...

 

[puahate]

There should be some kind of federal law mandating ALL pre-meds and pre-med wannabes attend a lecture to hear this kind of truth.

Every student entering med school should have the mindset that it would be a privilege and an honor to spend the rest of his/her life serving as a generalist for inner city or rural population and making a barely livable wage doing it. Sadly, 80-90% of all entering pre-meds think they are going to end up as Chief of Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins and spending half their work week at the country club working on the golf handicap.

LOL i kinda want this ngl. Not saying i need to be in ortho of NS but I shadowed a family med doc and a gyn onc and the procedural work is so much interesting than seeing multiple people with diabetes or problems based on weight.

 

[puahate]

Anesthesia still beats both hands down. Get to sit down, get breaks, pee when you need to and not have to do a surgical residency. Boom

But mid level encroachment is literally in that field