Osteopathic ENT Program Info

[koojo]

Honestly, if you're at the bottom 25%, do not waste your time applying to ENT. You will be going up against students who are top of their class.

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[jr87]

Good boards scores fix everything, but they better be real good. ENT is extremely competitive in the DO world (MD too). Oklahoma State in Tulsa is not taking a resident next year (funding issues) and I just heard the Columbus OH program is going bye-bye. So there's a few more spots off the list. Good luck.

 

[FutureDO2016]

well my bottom class rank and bad grades were from year 1 and family issues...hopefully better grades and stellar board scores can make up for the past year

 

[koojo]

Jr87 is correct. OSU will not be taking an ENT resident for the 2014 year. This is due to the distribution of the current ENT residents at OSU. Currently there is a 4th, 3rd, two 2nd and one 1st year (they just graduated a 5th year). That make a total of 5 residents. OSU is only funded for 5 ENT spots, and since no one will be graduating in 2014, they can't add new resident. Something to keep in mind when you are scheduling your audition rotations.

 

[rapidrhino]

Any input on my situation, preferably from a recently matched intern or junior... Right now I am going through a small crisis. I feel like my scores are not extremely competitive on paper, and worst of all I only have 3 auditions (due to some ridiculous scheduling conflicts with school). I scored 588 on step 1 and I'm still waiting on step 2 scores. I have 2 strong ENT letters (1 from a DO program director), a Head and Neck letter, a Plastics letter (from a dept chair), and an Internal Med letter at my disposal. I have some published research work from undergrad for which I am acknowledged, but none of which I am an author on. And I have a large amount of volunteer work including some medical missionary work.

Basically what I am asking... is it worth it for me to even apply to programs where I wasn't able to rotate. Honestly there is nothing that I am better at and enjoy more than ENT, and it just kills me that I am not able to rotate at more places, which may be the limiting factor.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Honestly, if you're at the bottom 25%, do not waste your time applying to ENT. You will be going up against students who are top of their class.

I would disregard this advice, if you score a 600+, your grades will be an afterthought unless you failed a class... Also I applied ortho this year and many kids matched with mediocre grades and board scores because they were well liked... You never know how it'll workout... Bottom line, if you want a specialty, commit to it, do everything you can, regardless of your board scores and grades.

 

[deleted554740]

Hey guys. Was hoping for some candid advice here. Got my step 1 back and made a 554. Not over the top happy about it but ill live. Do you think I should even bother shooting for ENT? I got mostly Bs during first two years of med school. 1 abstract published in a journal. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[ODorDO]

Sorry if this question sounds newbish... Do residency programs have regional bias? I noticed one of the ent program's website listed their resident profiles, and some of them went to same undergrad/D.O. school in the state/region. thx in advance

 

[Colbare]

Sorry if this question sounds newbish... Do residency programs have regional bias? I noticed one of the ent program's website listed their resident profiles, and some of them went to same undergrad/D.O. school in the state/region. thx in advance

I'm wondering about this too. Also are their websites behind in reporting how many spots they actually have? I heard there were only about 22 spots, but from the websites it looks like PCOM has 15 and Freeman has 8. It'd be hard to believe all 8 or so of the other programs are completely gone.

 

[koojo]

I'm wondering about this too. Also are their websites behind in reporting how many spots they actually have? I heard there were only about 22 spots, but from the websites it looks like PCOM has 15 and Freeman has 8. It'd be hard to believe all 8 or so of the other programs are completely gone.

I'm sure there is regional bias, but no one knows for sure and a program direction is not supposed to say.

Also, there are about 18-24 new spots every year for PGY-1 residents. PCOM has been taking 3 every year for a while now.

 

[eimaise]

Good boards scores fix everything, but they better be real good. ENT is extremely competitive in the DO world (MD too). Oklahoma State in Tulsa is not taking a resident next year (funding issues) and I just heard the Columbus OH program is going bye-bye. So there's a few more spots off the list. Good luck.

Yikes. Where'd you hear this about the Columbus site at Doctor's?

So, the Osteopathic Opportunities site still lists all 19 programs, but I believe the Genesys Program in Grand Blanc is closing down too so that leaves us with 17 programs and roughly 17 to 22 spots.

I need some advice: I am a 3rd year right now, and I have some exposure prior to medical school to an ENT friend in the OR, which looks to be great, but I have been unable to really spend any time in clinic with an ENT doctor and to see what day-to-day practice is really like. My surgery rotation for third year isn't until March 2014. We have no electives available to us in third year.

I don't really have any time to actually shadow or be with an ENT between now and when I would have to do audition rotations in 4th year (which is starting July 2014), so I am not sure how I can be sure if I will really like the field.

So my issue is... I don't know if I want to go into ENT for sure, yet in about 5 months, I would need to schedule like 3 to 4 months of away-rotations for 4th year.

Seems like a huge commitment for 4th year electives when I am not really even sure how much of a fit the field will really be to compliment my strengths and interests.

I also have no research or publications or posters or anything of that sort. I do have a 667 step 1 COMLEX score and I'm in the top 20% of my class.

 

[cruzecontrol]

You can arrange an informal shadowing experience with an ENT to help decide if you are interested. Just spend some time during your breaks or when you have a day off.

Also, see if you enjoy reading the literature or studying that field. Ultimately, it is a difficult decision to choose a specialty, but usually there are many you can rule out and a few to choose between.

Setting up the rotations and preparing for ENT is not a huge commitment. If you change your mind, just cancel them and move on. Easy enough.

 

[FSUguy]

Hey everyone,

I'm a 3rd year applying ENT and trying to figure out how I can best setup my audition rotations for the fall. My school does not allow 2 wk rotations, so I'm pretty limited in how many I can do (probably max 5-6). I want to get to the Michigan programs, as well as some of the others, but with so few months to audition, I was wondering if anyone can comment on which programs in Michigan overlap with the others as far hospitals? If I could go one program, and also get exposure to another program close by without setting up a "formal" rotation, that would be ideal. Also, I'm running into a problem with some of the programs in MI and my school not having an affiliation agreement with the hospital, and therefore not allowing me to rotate. If I could go to another program that overlaps, that might allow me to have a workaround.

So again, I'm curious in MI what programs specifically overlap and allow you to go to multiple programs/gain exposure with multiple PD's?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

 

[cruzecontrol]

The only program I know of with overlap is St. John and Botsford. Dr. Brandes is the PD at St. John, but also operates at Botsford.

If/when you go to Michigan, you can find out the didactics schedule for different programs and show up accordingly to increase your exposure.

 

[ENTwho]

Osteopathic ENT Update

I used this site in my ENT journey and found it very helpful. Therefore, I figured I would chime in and give any updates that I can. Although I was very fortunate to match this year in one of the few osteopathic ENT spots, I was very concerned that things would not end up as they did and I feel incredibly lucky. In addition I know of and heard of several really good applicants some with board scores >700 not matching and having no backup plan.

I agree with most of the advice given above so this is some additional stuff that I learned through my experience, watching others ,and advice from PDs and residents:
1. A lot of it comes down to board scores. Sure there have been applicants that get in with all levels of board scores but I think as programs get cut and more DO schools are formed it just gets more competitive. I know this year for sure there were several applicants with Board scores >700. A few of these applicants were given interviews at programs without ever having rotated there.

2. Having good board scores, or something really impressive on your CV doesn't seal the deal, have a back up plan. Most of the applicants I met did not match. Also I know of many applicants who anticipated more interviews because of their scores/CV but did not get them.

3. Don't ever think you have a spot landed until the PD has offered it to you and you have matched.

4. Don't talk too much about other programs when you are on an audition, residents/PDs pick up on it and want to know their program is your #1.

5. Set up rotations as early as possible, they fill quick!

I think the previous breakdowns of programs were very good so I will only add what little I can and as objective as possible.

1. Tulsa - Closed program and I have heard conflicting things as to whether in the future (>3years) they will take applicants
2. Kirksville - Nothing to add
3. Affinity (Massillon) - Closed as far as I know
4. Botsford - I heard good things about this program, seems that you must rotate to be considered for a spot.
5. St john- Strong clinic experience, residents are able to moonlight which is nice. Very good plastics exposure. Some may argue that operative experience is less than other programs.seems that you must rotate to be considered for a spot.
6. Henry Ford - Good program, Board scores are important and seems that you must rotate to be considered for a spot.
7. St. Barnabas (NJ) - Very good plastics exposure and operative experience. Lots of pimp question on audition. seems that you must rotate to be considered for a spot. Rotation does not guarantee interview
8. Lake Erie - Strong case load and operative experience. No out rotations needed. Only one ENT group in Erie of which all are attendings. Work with Plastic surgeon 3 months/year. Some interviews were given without having rotated.
9. UMDNJ/Kennedy - Lots of paperwork and hoops to jump through to rotate.
10. PCOM - Strong program. Some may argue (some may not) that operative experience is hindered compared to other programs in some areas do to # of residents. Very good clinic experiences, probably the highest volume of tubes and tonsils operative experience. Some would argue that not the most interactive or engaging rotation for a student. Interviews given without having rotated and rotation does not guarantee interview.
3. Grand Rapids/Metro - Solid program. Program director now spends majority of time out of town. Very nice attendings. Some may argue other programs have a better clinic experience. Seems that plastic experience may be lacking compared to other programs. Grand rapids is a great city to live in. Rotation does not guarantee interview and they took an applicant who did not rotate there.
4. Columbus/Doctors - Closed
5. Dayton/Grandview - Solid program, residents get a lot of autonomy and have a great relationship with university of Cincinnati for out rotations. PD is very nice. Recognize that base students are present. Applicants picked in the past have shown strong interest both during and not during the rotation (ie attending conferences, didactic sessions and dinners)
6. Pontiac - Must rotate for an interview
7. Des Peres/St. Louis - Nothing to add
8. Joplin/Freeman - Prior to rotating I heard very high remarks about this program. Some may argue that while exposure is very high the operative experience is hindered by fellowship trained attendings doing much of the surgery. In the last 2 years they have not formally taken an applicant in the match. It seems to be done outside the match. Also funding continues to be an issue. Unless you are very very highly interested in this program, I think a rotation at another program may be of more benefit.
9. Genesys/Grand Blanc - Closed
10. Huron Valley/Detroit - Solid program. must rotate to be considered for interview.


The best program is the one that you match to. With that being said I think stating the best program would depend on your personality, interests, lifestyle and geographical bias.

You certainly cant go wrong with Dayton, PCOM, Erie, Grand Rapids and Barnabas.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Osteopathic ENT Update

I used this site in my ENT journey and found it very helpful. Therefore, I figured I would chime in and give any updates that I can. Although I was very fortunate to match this year in one of the few osteopathic ENT spots, I was very concerned that things would not end up as they did and I feel incredibly lucky. In addition I know of and heard of several really good applicants some with board scores >700 not matching and having no backup plan.

I agree with most of the advice given above so this is some additional stuff that I learned through my experience, watching others ,and advice from PDs and residents:
1. A lot of it comes down to board scores. Sure there have been applicants that get in with all levels of board scores but I think as programs get cut and more DO schools are formed it just gets more competitive. I know this year for sure there were several applicants with Board scores >700. A few of these applicants were given interviews at programs without ever having rotated there.

2. Having good board scores, or something really impressive on your CV doesn't seal the deal, have a back up plan. Most of the applicants I met did not match. Also I know of many applicants who anticipated more interviews because of their scores/CV but did not get them.

3. Don't ever think you have a spot landed until the PD has offered it to you and you have matched.

4. Don't talk too much about other programs when you are on an audition, residents/PDs pick up on it and want to know their program is your #1.

5. Set up rotations as early as possible, they fill quick!

I think the previous breakdowns of programs were very good so I will only add what little I can and as objective as possible.

1. Tulsa - Closed program and I have heard conflicting things as to whether in the future (>3years) they will take applicants
2. Kirksville - Nothing to add
3. Affinity (Massillon) - Closed as far as I know
4. Botsford - I heard good things about this program, seems that you must rotate to be considered for a spot.
5. St john- Strong clinic experience, residents are able to moonlight which is nice. Very good plastics exposure. Some may argue that operative experience is less than other programs.seems that you must rotate to be considered for a spot.
6. Henry Ford - Good program, Board scores are important and seems that you must rotate to be considered for a spot.
7. St. Barnabas (NJ) - Very good plastics exposure and operative experience. Lots of pimp question on audition. seems that you must rotate to be considered for a spot. Rotation does not guarantee interview
8. Lake Erie - Strong case load and operative experience. No out rotations needed. Only one ENT group in Erie of which all are attendings. Work with Plastic surgeon 3 months/year. Some interviews were given without having rotated.
9. UMDNJ/Kennedy - Lots of paperwork and hoops to jump through to rotate.
10. PCOM - Strong program. Some may argue (some may not) that operative experience is hindered compared to other programs in some areas do to # of residents. Very good clinic experiences, probably the highest volume of tubes and tonsils operative experience. Some would argue that not the most interactive or engaging rotation for a student. Interviews given without having rotated and rotation does not guarantee interview.
3. Grand Rapids/Metro - Solid program. Program director now spends majority of time out of town. Very nice attendings. Some may argue other programs have a better clinic experience. Seems that plastic experience may be lacking compared to other programs. Grand rapids is a great city to live in. Rotation does not guarantee interview and they took an applicant who did not rotate there.
4. Columbus/Doctors - Closed
5. Dayton/Grandview - Solid program, residents get a lot of autonomy and have a great relationship with university of Cincinnati for out rotations. PD is very nice. Recognize that base students are present. Applicants picked in the past have shown strong interest both during and not during the rotation (ie attending conferences, didactic sessions and dinners)
6. Pontiac - Must rotate for an interview
7. Des Peres/St. Louis - Nothing to add
8. Joplin/Freeman - Prior to rotating I heard very high remarks about this program. Some may argue that while exposure is very high the operative experience is hindered by fellowship trained attendings doing much of the surgery. In the last 2 years they have not formally taken an applicant in the match. It seems to be done outside the match. Also funding continues to be an issue. Unless you are very very highly interested in this program, I think a rotation at another program may be of more benefit.
9. Genesys/Grand Blanc - Closed
10. Huron Valley/Detroit - Solid program. must rotate to be considered for interview.


The best program is the one that you match to. With that being said I think stating the best program would depend on your personality, interests, lifestyle and geographical bias.

You certainly cant go wrong with Dayton, PCOM, Erie, Grand Rapids and Barnabas.

When you say a program is closed, do you mean it's not accepting applicants this year or it's closed for good?

I visited opportunities.osteopathic.org and looked at some of those programs you said they were closed (like Genesys) and it showed that they are approved for the next 5 years.

 

[koojo]

Tulsa is definitely not 'closed', but will be taking a PGY2 for the next couple years to even out the resident numbers. The program is actually stronger than it has ever been.

 

[kENTucky7]

The 5 points ENTwho touches on are all very good and very true.

Here is a brief review of the rotation I was able to do during my 4th year of the ENT programs. The residents at every site were all very nice and made my experiences great. If you are interested in ENT make sure to schedule your rotations as soon as possible as they fill up fast.

The best programs, of the ones I had an opportunity to rotate, are Dayton and Erie. The most important factor in my mind was surgical ability and confidence of the residents. Another, very important factor was how my personality fit with the residents and attendings. That being said, ENT is very competitive and whatever residency gives you an opportunity is the best.

• Grandview Hospital in Dayton Ohio (1 resident per year) – This is a very strong program with a great group of residents and attendings. The surgical volume is very high. The residents are in the OR every day and are allowed to operate a lot. Very rarely are they double scrubbed. The surgical skills of the residents and exposure are exceptional. The residents cover a large group of attendings in Dayton, as it is the only ENT residency in the city. As a student, you are also able to scrub the cases and participate, which is not the case at all the sites I visited. The program director is enthusiastic and enjoys teaching his residents and rotating students. They are part of the Ohio Core which provides education for the ENT programs in Ohio. They have anatomy lectures, temporal bone labs, and FESS practice (to name a few) through the Core Program. They have the opportunity to scrub cases with both DO and MD ENT’s throughout the city. The residents cover many hospitals in the city. They have out rotations at the University of Cincinnati for Head and Neck, and they do pediatrics at Cincinnati Children’s Hospital. Cincinnati is only about 45 minutes from Dayton.
• Millcreek Hospital in Erie PA (1 resident per year) – This is a strong program as well. The residents are in the operating room every day and cover 8 or 9 attendings. The residents were all very skilled surgically. As a student, you get to do a lot on this at this ENT program. This program has the residents in the OR every morning and in the clinic in the afternoon. On larger surgery days they spend the whole day in the OR. They have high surgical volume as they cover the majority of the ENT’s in the city of Erie. The residents are required to earn an MBA in education during their residency which is advantageous if you are interested in fellowships. Will consider applicants without rotating if you crush boards (700+).
• Pontiac Osteopathic Hospital in Pontiac MI (2 residents per year) – This program is good program. As a student, you spend a lot of time in the clinic with the second year residents who cover the program director and another doctor. The senior residents I had the opportunity to observe were all very good in the OR. Their residents also match various fellowships every year. They have the opportunity to rotate with Lakeshore ENT, in conjunction with the Henry Ford Program. Lakeshore is a large group of fellowship trained ENT physicians in a variety of specialties. Their didactics are very good. Their large number of residents ensures that the education is taken seriously. There is a lot of driving with this residency. As a student, I spent more time observing as there are multiple students on rotation at a time.
• Metro Health in Grand Rapids MI (1 resident per year) – I did not have the opportunity to rotate here, but I did interview. I was very impressed in the short time I was there. The surgical volume here is very good. The residents seem to be very competent and confident in their abilities. Based on what I heard from other students and residents, the residents get a lot of time in the OR and have ample opportunity to develop their surgical skills. The hospital was only 5 years old, and Grand Rapids is a nice city as well. I would have liked to rotate as a student here, but like many programs, it was filled before I secured a rotation.
• Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine (3 residents per year) – This is a very good program. Their pediatrics rotation is at St Chris’ and they work with the Temple University ENT residents. This program has the most pathology of any program. The residents have a very large role in the clinic and a lot is expected of them. The surgical volume is also very good here, and the senior residents help to train the more junior residents. They have access to research if they so desire. This residency training program is spread across Philadelphia, so traffic can be a problem at times. The role of the medical student changes from seeing patients by yourself, to merely observing depending on which location you are at for the day.
• Summa Western Reserve Hospital in Cuyahoga Falls (1 resident per year) – This is an average program. The residents have 2-3 OR days per week. They have just begun covering Akron Children’s hospital. They have a resident clinic on Friday afternoon. The residents only cover 2-3 attendings, so the surgical volume isn’t as large as some other programs. They have a resident run clinic on Friday afternoons which is a great learning opportunity. Good rotation as a student, you get to scrub cases and see clinic patients.
• St. John’s Providence Hospital Madison Heights Michigan (2 residents per year) – This is a so/so program. Their education may be the best I have seen. They assign cochlea questions to the residents and each resident teaches their section. They have a lot of clinic time. The student’s role on this rotation is minimal. The majority of their surgery is done at the Oakland campus where 1-2 senior residents scrub the cases and the junior residents manage the floor. They spend almost 2 of the 5 years on out rotations.
• Botsford Hospital in Farmington Hills MI (1 resident per year) – I spent a day here operating with the program director. I really liked the residents and the program director. I spent the whole day in the OR and saw a wide variety of cases. The residents operated well. This particular day had multiple residents scrubbed on the same cases (not sure if this is the norm). I very much enjoyed the day I spent there.

 

[FSUguy]

I wanted to ask anyone's opinion about the upcoming AOCOO-HNS conference in Scottsdale, AZ. I’m debating about attending to have the opportunity to network with program directors, meet current residents, and attend the great variety of lectures/workshops. My biggest concern, outside of the obvious cost of travel expenses, is the days I would lose studying for subject examinations and boards coming up shortly after the conference. I’m willing to make the time investment to attend, but am interested to hear thoughts on whether or not it would be a worthwhile endeavor given my current position as a 3rd year, as well as the close proximity to boards, etc. For those that have gone previously, did you have opportunities to meet PD's and residents, and feel it was worthwhile as a student? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[koojo]

I wanted to ask anyone's opinion about the upcoming AOCOO-HNS conference in Scottsdale, AZ. I’m debating about attending to have the opportunity to network with program directors, meet current residents, and attend the great variety of lectures/workshops. My biggest concern, outside of the obvious cost of travel expenses, is the days I would lose studying for subject examinations and boards coming up shortly after the conference. I’m willing to make the time investment to attend, but am interested to hear thoughts on whether or not it would be a worthwhile endeavor given my current position as a 3rd year, as well as the close proximity to boards, etc. For those that have gone previously, did you have opportunities to meet PD's and residents, and feel it was worthwhile as a student? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I went to the conference in 2012, and thought it was helpful. I met some PD, but I'm not sure if that really helped or not. I did talk to a number of residents, but I had no idea who was from which program unless I talked to them. They were pretty helpful. I went in May, and I took both the Step 2's in June, so it is doable. I say if you are able to go then it may be a good idea. Will likely make you stand out from the rest.

 

[Kniveschau29]

No one has posted here in a while so I figured I would revitalize the thread...

I matched this past Monday into one of the DO ENT programs! I would like to stay anonymous like the previous posters. But if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.

 

[otologic]

No one has posted here in a while so I figured I would revitalize the thread...

I matched this past Monday into one of the DO ENT programs! I would like to stay anonymous like the previous posters. But if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.

Congratulations on matching, and thank you for taking the time to help those who desire to pursue the same field. If its possible can you please mention which hospitals you rotated through and your opinion regarding the different programs. And any advise for future applicants that would make us better prepared. Thank You.

 

[Kniveschau29]

Basically I have very similar things to say as everyone else.

Overall I really don't know where to start about matching into ENT. Obviously there are outliers but I'd say you really need competitive comlex scores. Don't limit yourself to one program or one
region because you don't know where life will take you. Pasha is the best but I found emedicine to be great for anatomy, indications, contraindications and complications of the surgeries. Ent secrets was a good foundation as well. It is good to have a full text like KJ Lee for additional information you may need for presentations and stuff.

You have to always be on both with your knowledge, respect and personality. I found it helpful to space the auditions out to avoid burnout. I only did 4 rotations because my school doesn't allow 2 week rotations. So if you are able to, do as many rotations as possible. But you should do 4 weeks at your top pick. Also, don't do your top pick first because that's the rotation where you'll make most of your mistakes.

The final exams you will take on rotations will mostly be based off primary care otolaryngology which is free on the AAO-HNS website. I felt like having research was a plus but not a requirement like it is in the MD world.

Know how to suture but you will do little to no hand work in the OR. Ent rotations are very much observant. As usual, be nice to everyone you come in contact with. Be genuine and honest. You will be faced with discussions about the match and rankings. You ultimately decide where you want to go if you are a qualified applicant. PM me if you have specific questions!

 

[LM136]

Hey guys, thanks for all the posts so far. They're very helpful. Not sure how many people who have gone to through the application process are still reading this - but any advice on ENT MD programs that are open to DOs? I've looked through FRIEDA and VSAS for ones that say they take DOs and found a couple, but wanted to see if anyone else has any advice. Thanks!

 

[HopefulDoc89]

hey guys,
The posts so far have been really helpful! I'm about to start an ENT rotation, but I'm on a pretty light psych rotation right now. I was wondering if any accepted residents or recently auditioned students know some high yield topics for pimp questions that I can read up on in Pasha to look awesome on the ENT rotation.

Also, if anyone found any internet sites that are helpful for preparing for rotations it would be greatly appreciated!

 

[koojo]

For prospective students, here is the newly updated ENT/Facial Plastic Surgery residency information for the Tulsa program (Oklahoma State University). Make sure you click "OSU Medical center":

Residency and Fellowships | OSU Center for Health Sciences - Oklahoma State University

 

[Painologist]

...

 

[Painologist]

With all programs becoming ACGME certified now, making it possible for MD students to apply to DO programs. Do you think it would be wise for an MD third year student to apply to DO ENT programs? I have a lower step 1 score and am looking for ways of increasing my chances of matching. Also I am looking for any insight on an MD applying to a DO program as this uncharted territory.

Thanks

 

[otologic]

Congrats to the applicants that were able to secure a spot this year!

If you can please share your thoughts on the whole auditions, interviews, and match process. It would be beneficial to the upcoming students.
Can you guys also highlight on the ACGME/AOA merger and how some programs are handling the merger.

 

[koojo]

Here is the ACGME link where you can find out which program has applied for ACGME accredidation and their status:

https://apps.acgme.org/ads/Public/Reports/Report/18

 

[hockey40]

Matched into my top choice today. Happy to answer any questions rising applicants may have!

 

[Preston Garvey]

Matched at my number one! I will be doing a write up on the programs I rotated through once I get some time. Osteo Oto is such a small field and this thread is full of really helpful information for all the med students reading through it.

 

[ENTfodayzzz]

Matched at my number one! I will be doing a write up on the programs I rotated through once I get some time. Osteo Oto is such a small field and this thread is full of really helpful information for all the med students reading through it.

Getting ready to start auditions in a few weeks. would be curious to hear your opinions on each program you rotated at and any general advice you have.

 

[Preston Garvey]

Just a heads up, several more osteo ENT programs gained initial accreditation. Right now the tally is 8/14. Make sure to check with the individual programs to see what match they are participating in. It will be difficult with auditioners this year having to split their eggs between two baskets. Tip number one for doing well on ENT auditions is be WELL read. ENT secrets and Pasha are a good start and I would suggest getting an anatomy atlas that you can reference. I choose netters because I used it for anatomy class in med school and was familiar with it. Be there early every day. Never ask to leave early. Although not necessary having an otoscope and headlight can come in handy if you are taking call with a resident or rounding on patients. Try to have supplies in your bag like tongue depressors, gauze, bandages, suture removal kits etc, because if you are rounding on a patient and your resident needs supplies you will look awesome. Be a decent person. Don't try to gun other auditioners. Most people do this subconsciously. An example would be a resident or attending asks a question to the other medical student. You might know the answer but DON'T blurt it out. Wait for the attending to ask you. If you don't know the answer to a question don't stress it. We all blank on questions. This may be situation dependent but don't guess if you don't know the answer. The attendings and residents want you to know the material not guess at it. Say something along the lines of "I don't know but I can look it up." If your attending prompts you to start guessing then I would guess. I know auditions are coming up so good luck to all of you!


1. DMC: So big plus for this program is that they have gained initial accreditation. Really strong program and considered to be most like an M.D program with regard to structure. Most DO programs have you taking home call at 5 different hospitals. At this program you cover the beast of a hospital that is the DMC as well as Sinnai grace. Call here is BUSY but is split between the DMC program and the wayne state ENT residency. Since most of your calls come from this institution you don't have to do much driving. The two main services that residents rotate through are the adult service and the peds service. Adult service is mostly general ENT but they do have a fellowship trained neurotologist. Very little exposure to H&N, but this could be a plus for some people. Peds service is busy, lots of ear and airway.


2. Saint Johns: One of the strongest if not strongest DO programs. Recently gained ACGME accredidation. PD is an MD fellowship trained neurotologist who works for MEI. MEI performs more CPA tumor removal than any other ENT group in the nation. Saw a translab resection of an acoustic neuroma there. It was so freaking cool. Good peds exposure. The fellowship trained peds guys that previously worked for DMC now work with Saint Johns residents. No in house H&N guys but residents go on out rotations for exposure. Residents work with Lakeshore ENT group for more fellowship exposure. Dr Rubin is the laryngologist they work with and he is AMAZING. He is so funny and cool to work with. Residents got a long with each other and their attending, which was a big plus in my book.


3. Boardman: This is the newest of the DO programs. PD said he modeled his program after Dartmouths ENT residency. all of the attendings here are general ENTs besides one who is a plastic surgeon. Plastic surgeon does some H&N stuff so its good exposure for the residents. They do rotations at Case-western for most of their sub-specialty training. Since they are so new their most senior resident is a PGY3.


4. Tulsa: One of the stronger D.O programs when it comes to H&N surgery. At the majority of D.O programs H&N rotations are at a different facility where you are the off service resident and thus don’t get to operate a ton. Tulsa has its own H&N attending. Residents spend about 14 months on Head and neck. One of the big benefits of this program is that there are more attendings than residents so there isn’t very much double scrubbing. One of the biggest strengths of this program is its PD. He is a very involved guy. He is at every didactic session and is always checking in on the residents to see how they are doing. Residents are very friendly and easy to get along with. There are only 2 months of dedicated Otology rotations but the attending is awesome and lets the residents do a lot. One of the general attendings does a decent amount of ears as well.


5. Joplin: Strong program. 3 core attendings 2 of which are H&N trained and the other is a neurotologist. No core peds attendings. Recently gained ACGME accreditation. They also expanded their program so instead of accepting 1 a year they accept 2 residents every other year. Joplin is a smaller town so that may be a negative for some. Residents see a decent amount of trauma. Residents got a long well. They have had some pretty good fellowship matches in the recent years.

 

[Preston Garvey]

The final list of accredited/former osteopathic programs

Ascension Macomb-Oakland hospital (Saint Johns)
Beaumont health
Detroit medical center
Henry Ford Macomb Hospital
Kansas city (Joplin)
Kettering (Dayton)
McLaren Health/MSU (Pontiac)
Ohio Health/Doctors
Oklahoma State University
Philadelphia College of osteopathic medicine
St Elizabeth Boardman
UPMC (Erie)
Western Reserve (Cuyahoga Falls)

D.O students Interested in ENT should really prioritize rotating at these facilities if they want the best chance at matching ENT. Good luck to everyone in the match this year!

 

[You shall know the Truth]

The final list of accredited/former osteopathic programs

Ascension Macomb-Oakland hospital (Saint Johns)
Beaumont health
Detroit medical center
Henry Ford Macomb Hospital
Kansas city (Joplin)
Kettering (Dayton)
McLaren Health/MSU (Pontiac)
Ohio Health/Doctors
Oklahoma State University
Philadelphia College of osteopathic medicine
St Elizabeth Boardman
UPMC (Erie)
Western Reserve (Cuyahoga Falls)

D.O students Interested in ENT should really prioritize rotating at these facilities if they want the best chance at matching ENT. Good luck to everyone in the match this year!

Can I PM you?

 

[Preston Garvey]

Yes

 

[DocInTheMaking23]

MS4 here just matched Monday into ENT! I will find out Friday which program but it will be one of the traditional osteopathic programs. Happy to answer any questions and will provide a review of places I auditioned soon as well.

 

[Kr#36]

MS4 here just matched Monday into ENT! I will find out Friday which program but it will be one of the traditional osteopathic programs. Happy to answer any questions and will provide a review of places I auditioned soon as well.

What do you feel were the key parts of your application that helped you stand out? What research experience did you have?

 

[DocInTheMaking23]

What do you feel were the key parts of your application that helped you stand out? What research experience did you have?

Honestly, my application was pretty average for those applying ENT. Board scores were about middle of the pack and research probably was too. I had 3 first author case reports published to Cureus (not at all a top of the line journal but it showed at least some writing experience). I also had two poster presentations, one during MS1 at research day at my school and the other was senior year of college at the ARO national meeting. I wasn't asked once about research on any of my interviews. Matching into (at least the traditional osteopathic) ENT programs is a lot of how well you perform on auditions/interviews and if you can get along with the staff/residents once you get past the board score screen. I have heard 600+ on COMLEX and 240+ on USMLE. When you go on auditions be well-read, very well-read. On auditions and interviews just be normal, they want someone they can teach and get along with for 5 years.

 

[Preston Garvey]

Good advice. Matching at traditional osteo ENT programs boils down to three things. 1 work hard, 2 be able to get along with people, 3 be well read. Of course you need good board scores, research etc but those just get your foot in the door. Programs rank applicants based on the three points above.

 

[DocInTheMaking23]

So everything said above is gold. I will just echo the above advice. Preston Garvey hit the nail on the head here with the three most important things.

1. Work hard. Cannot be stressed enough. You are expected to know the basic anatomy for every single case coming up the next day. Cape town ENT Atlas is a great start for procedures and goes over the anatomy pretty well. Again it's is just a start so I would compliment that with Myers operative or Cummings ENT. Working hard also entails the little things that you might not think of. Having a ENT bag for rounds (otoscope, tongue depressors, saline flushes, gauze, tape etc). is something I did and it only came into use maybe 3 or 4 times over the 5 months of auditions but it looked really good when I had that stuff ready. Other little things in the OR - Be friendly and introduce yourself to everyone (circulator, scrub tech, anesthesia, neurostim tech), take patients to PACU, be ready to help move patients.

2. Be able to get along with people. Very important. Most of these DO programs are a 5-10 person ship, it is very important everyone jives and works well together. This is what I looked for when looking at resident/attending camaraderie - co residents who you would love to get a beer with at 10pm on Friday night, but the same coresidents that you would trust to have your back in an emergent airway at 3am in the ED. Be friendly, don't out gun other students, just try to be a normal person.

3. Be well read. Goes hand in hand with number 1. Be well read, very very well read. I started pasha day 1 of my first audition and made anki cards so I was keeping fresh with all the information. Read the chapters before weekly didactics so you can answer the basic questions. Be ready to have anatomy (blood supply, nerves, muscles, "What are we worried about here") type questions down. You will always have a couple questions where you look at the attending like, "where in the world did that question come from?". Don't get bogged down if you get a question wrong, move on. They want someone that is teachable not someone whose whole day is ruined if they miss a question.

Heres my review of my auditions - let me just say, that ALL of the programs that survived the accreditation process are all excellent. But obviously different strokes for different folks so here are mine -

1. PCOM - So this was a great program to start off my auditions with. All the residents there are awesome and super friendly. It was a great one to start with because you are essentially thrown into the offices and told to go see the patients by yourself. Awesome experience, really great way to show you can take H and P's and develop plans for patients. Also shows residents they can trust you to see patients on your own. They do also drive all over Philly which can be a downside. You and another resident cover all the hospitals on call. They also have a lot of different Attendings that they work with. The new head and neck guy they work with is Vandy trained and he is awesome. I really think PCOM and Hamot are two of the strongest programs. This is a three resident a year program so its the biggest of all the DO programs. Despite having 15 all the residents were tight knit, and strong operatively.

2. St. Johns - Another great program. The PD is a neurotologist that works with MEI. Like Preston Garvey, I also saw a translab acoustic here and it was literally the coolest surgery I think I have ever seen. He likes to pimp a lot so be on your toes and be especially well read. They also cover a bunch of attendings and again I think that is a strong suit for any program. They take two residents a year here. All the residents are very close knit and they all got along well which again is a big plus. All the rotations are home but the Head and neck is an away rotation I believe in Indiana. I personally had a "home" student as the other auditioning student with me when I was there, so just kind of felt awkward the whole time but that has nothing to do with the program itself.

3. Boardman: Loved my rotation here at Boardman. During office you write notes and get to see patients by yourself and is actually very helpful. Gives you a chance to show you are competent with your plans. They did a whole bunch of facial trauma and in Youngstown that is like bread and butter. Saw lots of cool cases and they get you involved in the OR as well. The three main attendings here are great and really take time to teach you. They just added a head and neck guy who will be doing TORS so this program is definitely doing big things. One resident a year here and again all close knit and they all were very friendly. You travel a bit here with your Peds / Head and neck in Akron/Cleveland about an hour or so away.

4. Western Reserve - Had two weeks here and loved it. The main attendings at Western Reserve are the PD and his partner. They are very friendly and get you involved with the office and the OR. The PD likes to pimp so be on your game. They end up having to do some away rotations at Cleveland and Akron for Otology/Head and neck/Peds as well. A couple of the attendings they work with work in Sandusky which is about an hour and 15 away. Saw the residents having to drive back and forth a couple times a week. This is another one resident a year program.

5. Hamot - Like I said earlier I thought Hamot and PCOM were the strongest programs. Spent a month here and really had a good time. The core group of attendings are about 7 of them and they get all the ENT throughout northwest PA. Another one resident a year program and all the residents were very close and got a long really well. They were pretty strong operatively as well which was a big plus in my book. The only away rotation here is down in Pittsburgh as a chief for 3 months for otology.

Please do not hesitate to send me your questions!

Good luck, you got this!

 

[Preston Garvey]

I feel like this is still relevant to mention. For any DO students interested in matching ENT Here is a list of former DO programs that have gained their ACGME accreditation

ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

I think it's a good spot to start when considering which programs are worth applying to/auditioning at. Since the merger I've seen numerous succsefull DO students match at academic/MD programs. I think the best strategy for matching ENT as a DO is a combination of auditions at former DO programs and academic/MD programs. The most successful students I've seen usually obtain letters of recommendation from well known PDs at larger programs.

 

[Preston Garvey]

How do you know which MD programs are the most DO friendly?

I unfortunately do not. Maybe someone else could answer this?