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[racerx]

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Say what you will about his politics, but John McCain's pick for VP is a lot better looking than Obama's running mate.

[/OT]

Found some pics. First from her pageant days:

Current:

 

[jetproppilot]

Say what you will about his politics, but John McCain's pick for VP is a lot better looking than Obama's running mate.

[/OT]

Man, I hope youre right.

 

[Monty Python]

Say what you will about his politics, but John McCain's pick for VP is a lot better looking than Obama's running mate.

There is currently a raging controversy in Alaska. I wouldn't be surprised to see this issue rear it's head during the VP debate. Gov. Palin of Alaska is McCain's choice as VP running mate.

Gov. Palin's younger sister went through a nasty divorce from an Alaska state trooper. In retaliation, Gov. Palin ordered the commander of the Alaska state police (Monegan) to fire the trooper over BS, trumped-up charges. The state police commander refused, and then was fired himself.

The local Alaska media are all over this story. Read down through this thread.
This particular forum is the Alaska State Troopers: http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95612

Not that this particular politician would be the first to abuse the power of their office ... I just have a hard time seeing this person only a heartbeat away from the Oval Office.

An Alaska state politics observer states: http://www.andrewhalcro.com/why_walt_monegan_got_fired

 

[racerx]

I know nothing regarding her political record, and am interested in getting the big picture before making a choice this election. However, being in her, ahem, peer group (age-wise), I find her more MILF-y than Joe Biden.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if I found out that Obama, McCain, and Biden have entered into some questionable uses of power in office too. I mean c'mon. . . they're politicians.

That's all.

There is currently a raging controversy in Alaska. I wouldn't be surprised to see this issue rear it's head during the VP debate. Gov. Palin of Alaska is McCain's choice as VP running mate.

Gov. Palin's younger sister went through a nasty divorce from an Alaska state trooper. In retaliation, Gov. Palin ordered the commander of the Alaska state police (Monegan) to fire the trooper over BS, trumped-up charges. The state police commander refused, and then was fired himself.

The local Alaska media are all over this story. Read down through this thread.
This particular forum is the Alaska State Troopers: http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95612

Not that this particular politician would be the first to abuse the power of their office ... I just have a hard time seeing this person only a heartbeat away from the Oval Office.

 

[usnavdoc]

There is currently a raging controversy in Alaska. I wouldn't be surprised to see this issue rear it's head during the VP debate. Gov. Palin of Alaska is McCain's choice as VP running mate.

Gov. Palin's younger sister went through a nasty divorce from an Alaska state trooper. In retaliation, Gov. Palin ordered the commander of the Alaska state police (Monegan) to fire the trooper over BS, trumped-up charges. The state police commander refused, and then was fired himself.

The local Alaska media are all over this story. Read down through this thread.
This particular forum is the Alaska State Troopers: http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95612

Not that this particular politician would be the first to abuse the power of their office ... I just have a hard time seeing this person only a heartbeat away from the Oval Office.

An Alaska state politics observer states: http://www.andrewhalcro.com/why_walt_monegan_got_fired

Ive seen some of this as well. But I have also seen some stories that the state trooper was abusing his authority in terrorizing his soon to be ex-wife. All of that is alleged in newspapers. He was actually disciplined by the Alaska state troopers for tasering his 11yo step son. Who knows but Im sure it will come up soon.

http://www.adn.com/politics/story/468174.html

 

[Monty Python]

Ive seen some of this as well. But I have also seen some stories that the state trooper was abusing his authority in terrorizing his soon to be ex-wife. All of that is alleged in newspapers. Who knows but Im sure it will come up soon.

Yeah, MSNBC already picked it up. Read about halfway down.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25970882/

Simply FWIW (as this affects voters' choice) Gov. Palin is pro-gun, pro-death penalty, anti-abortion.

The running survey on MSNBC (N=98,000) shows 58% feel McCain should have picked someone else.

 

[racerx]

The running survey on MSNBC (N=98,000) shows 58% feel McCain did not make a good choice.

No more valid than a poll by foxnews. MSNBC attracts people with a more liberal bias, same as fox news attracting those with a conservative bias.

Actually, the poorly worded question and answer choices are:
What do you think of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as John McCain's running mate?

Sarah Palin is the best choice for the job.

McCain should have picked someone else.

It doesn't say whether people think he made a bad choice (not good). It asks if they think she's the best choice, or if he should have picked someone else. A person can think there are better choices out there, but that he made a good choice overall.

Here's hypothetical of a possible point of view:
Joe Blow: "I think there were better qualified people available, and I think he should've picked someone else. However, I don't think he made a bad choice."


I'll wait for the Pew or Rassmussen polls.

 

[Monty Python]

Another possibility:

Could McCain be courting the undecided former Hillary supporters, who feel a first loyalty to the female gender before a loyalty to the Democratic party?

 

[racerx]

Another possibility:

Could McCain be courting the undecided former Hillary supporters, who feel a first loyalty to the female gender before a loyalty to the Democratic party?

H3ll Yeah, I think that was a huge factor. . .That was my first thought when I heard about his choice.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Another possibility:

Could McCain be courting the undecided former Hillary supporters, who feel a first loyalty to the female gender before a loyalty to the Democratic party?

Yes, but it's nothing a few Roe v. Wade attack ads can't fix

 

[Kubed]

H3ll Yeah, I think that was a huge factor. . .That was my first thought when I heard about his choice.

Ditto. ... although I bet this will do less to attract more former hillary supporters and more to solidify the one's who are already in his camp. Last national poll I saw found something like 27% of former clintion supporters were planning on voting for mccain. If he can lock in a large portion of that block, it makes him look pretty strong.

 

[bigdan]

I
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if I found out that Obama, McCain, and Biden have entered into some questionable uses of power in office too. I mean c'mon. . . they're politicians.

That's all.

She'll be fine. We're talking about having to hold the moral standard of an office held by Cheney.

dc

 

[CalCoug]

Another possibility:

Could McCain be courting the undecided former Hillary supporters, who feel a first loyalty to the female gender before a loyalty to the Democratic party?

I think that is the idea but that it will backfire. All those Hillary supporters are going to remember the guy they dated all through senior year, and then he took a different girl to the prom. I think they will see Hillary as doing all this ground breaking work in the primary and then another girl getting picked up to go to the big show. That's just this girl's opinion.

 

[Brian Fantana]

I think that is the idea but that it will backfire. All those Hillary supporters are going to remember the guy they dated all through senior year, and then he took a different girl to the prom. I think they will see Hillary as doing all this ground breaking work in the primary and then another girl getting picked up to go to the big show. That's just this girl's opinion.

Hahahaha..Are your nightmares from that night so strong that your projecting your views on Jane Does choice for their next President? I bet your boyfriends new chick was hot and maybe even prom queen. Am I close?

 

[Monty Python]

I can only assume McCain properly vetted his VP choice before making a final selection.

A more comprehensive story posted later today on MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26458400/

 

[CalCoug]

Hahahaha..Are your nightmares from that night so strong that your projecting your views on Jane Does choice for their next President? I bet your boyfriends new chick was hot and maybe even prom queen. Am I close?

haha, no there was no high school trauma guiding my post.

 

[racerx]

I can only assume McCain properly vetted his VP choice before making a final selection.

A more comprehensive story posted later today on MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26458400/

Of course it's OK to use your connections in the troopers to avoid going to jail after tazing your stepson. You or I would have gotten some time at the drop-soap men's club if we had done that. He got his 10 day suspension reduced to 5. . .that's some punishment.🙄

 

[QofQuimica]

I first registered to vote in 1992, am a registered Republican, and have never voted for a Republican for president before. I was almost certainly going to vote for McCain this time, because Nobama scares the s*** out of me. But now there's no question; I think Palin was an *excellent* choice. Heck, even my Democrat mother is going gaga about voting Republican this year. And you know, FL is a swing state with an awful lot of electoral votes up for grabs. 🙂

 

[Monty Python]

I first registered to vote in 1992, am a registered Republican, and have never voted for a Republican for president before. I was almost certainly going to vote for McCain this time, because Nobama scares the s*** out of me. But now there's no question; I think Palin was an *excellent* choice. Heck, even my Democrat mother is going gaga about voting Republican this year. And you know, FL is a swing state with an awful lot of electoral votes up for grabs. 🙂

I don't think I've ever seen someone with as many posts as you: 12,000+. That's eight posts/day, every single day, for the past four years since you joined in 2004.

That's got to be a record.

 

[lfesiam]

Man, I hope youre right.

dude, i was drivin' and they were talkin' about how hot this alaskan gov' was on the radio.

....not a proactive move on GOP...more of a reactive move to get Clinton's 18 million voters...

 

[dfk]

...reminds me of tina fey..
sort of..
still tho'~
i hear alaska's got nice "peaks"...

 

[isoman2000]

It was a good pick for several reasons
1. She has a rep for anti corruption and bucking the system
2. She meets the criteria for the republican base while appearing less threatening then others would
3. She will appeal to many middle of the road women voters, I am sure they could see McCain endorsing her in 2012 or 2016.
4. She is young has no "debts" in Washington so she has less of a handle to be controlled by special interests.

 

[racerx]

...reminds me of tina fey...

A little, minus the scar. I think it's the glasses. Better than Tina Fey though. . .likes hunting and target shooting.

At 44 with five kids, she has aged well.

 

[racerx]

It was a good pick for several reasons
1. She has a rep for anti corruption and bucking the system
2. She meets the criteria for the republican base while appearing less threatening then others would
3. She will appeal to many middle of the road women voters, I am sure they could see McCain endorsing her in 2012 or 2016.
4. She is young has no "debts" in Washington so she has less of a handle to be controlled by special interests.

5. She will secure the pro-cougar 18-25 YO male demographic. j/k

 

[jwk]

... I just have a hard time seeing this person only a heartbeat away from the Oval Office.

And you don't have a hard time seeing BHO actually IN the oval office?

She has more true qualifications to run for president than he does. At least she's actually run something besides her mouth the last several years.

 

[QofQuimica]

I don't think I've ever seen someone with as many posts as you: 12,000+. That's eight posts/day, every single day, for the past four years since you joined in 2004.

That's got to be a record.

You must not hang out on SDN too much, or you'd know that I'm a total amateur--I don't even make the top 10. The record poster is one of our admins, bananaface, who currently stands at 33,000+ posts. That comes out to about 21 posts per day since 2004.

 

[racerx]

And you don't have a hard time seeing BHO actually IN the oval office?

She has more true qualifications to run for president than he does. At least she's actually run something besides her mouth the last several years.

She's actually the only one of the four (BHO, JMc, JB, herself) that has actual experience working in the administrative/executive branch. The others are legislative hacks.

 

[Monty Python]

And you don't have a hard time seeing BHO actually IN the oval office?

She has more true qualifications to run for president than he does. At least she's actually run something besides her mouth the last several years.

Oh, believe me, I have a very difficult time seeing B&O (what a double entendre) in the White House. My primary concern is that McCain didn't properly vet his eventual VP choice, or else he knew about this state trooper issue and didn't feel it to be noteworthy. The national press seems to think otherwise. McCain's judgment about the press' reaction to Palin's issue conceivably could cost him a lot of votes. Maybe. That would be self-inflicted damage. I personally had bet he was going to pick the governor of Minnesota.

Let's also realize that most of the national press is liberal (ie, Democratic) and will go to great lengths to harm McCain in any way they can in an effort to support B&O.

Whether or not Palin is actually guilty of abusing her power, the issue is going to provide lots of ammunition to the press. I hope McCain is ready to return fire.

 

[coprolalia]

Whether or not Palin is actually guilty of abusing her power, the issue is going to provide lots of ammunition to the press. I hope McCain is ready to return fire.

Trin, I totally agree with what you said.

But, I think this was a calculated risk. And, the dirt will come out early.

Remember the brouhaha when the said Slick Willie "puffed but never inhaled", "Whitewhater", and "Gennifer Flowers". He still got elected. And, now we have a sitting president who freely admitted to be a cocaine user and a recovering alcoholic and a current presidential candidate who openly talks about drug abuse early in his life. This pales in comparison, IMHO.

I think the story on this is going to break early, and it will get thoroughly played out after the next couple of weeks. After that, she will (rightfully so) be able to say, "Can we focus on the issues?" and anyone who continues to bring the issue up will be seen as a persistent badgerer.

Now, if there is criminal wrongdoing on her part, that changes the ballgame. But, I think she's going to survive this provided it is settled with alacrity.

And, yes, I believe she can even spin the story (however it plays out) in her favor. This trooper was apparently quite the dirtbag, and I would spin it by saying that "I would've acted similarly no matter which trooper it was, but it just happened to come to my attention sooner because this particular individual was unfortunately involved with my family."

I think there are a lot more voting middle-American moms with centrist, and perhaps rightest, values out there than there are liberal "Gloria Steinem" types, and I think they will see her nomination as a positive. The "Gloria Steinem's" still feel a bit alienated by Hillary not getting appointed. Now, even though they probably won't be swayed, they will have the optioon of a woman to vote for. The die-hard, man-hating, carpet-munching lesbos will never go for her, but that's not the vote the Republican party has ever courted anyway. But, I bet they'll be a little more torn and confused at the polls. Joe Biden represents their interests? HA! 🙄

It was a bold move on McCain's part. We'll see where the chips will fall. I think there are going to be a lot of people spending extra time behind the curtain this year on November 4th. However, it works out, it'll be an historic election. And, that's pretty cool.

-copro

P.S. I was already voting for McCain. Didn't matter who he chose. He's the best candidate, especially for a future private practitioner.

 

[Monty Python]

...... After that, she will (rightfully so) be able to say, "Can we focus on the issues?" and anyone who continues to bring the issue up will be seen as a persistent badgerer.

Palin has a lot of reading and prepping to do before her one debate with Biden, who has extensive experience in foreign affairs. That would be the Palin Achille's heel which the Democrats will probably focus on.

Strictly for a more centrist take on Palin is today's article in Newsweek, a less-liberal (perhaps) viewpoint than MSNBC: http://www.newsweek.com/id/156258

Forbes says: http://www.forbes.com/businessinthe...cain-campaign-biz-beltway-cx_bw_0829veep.html

Newsmax (a very conservative viewpoint): http://www.newsmax.com/



.

 

[racerx]

Whether or not Palin is actually guilty of abusing her power, the issue is going to provide lots of ammunition to the press. I hope McCain is ready to return fire.

I think you're correct. The press likes to , especially when it comes to a republican. Two months from now, barring any new dirt, they'll still be on this "issue".

 

[racerx]

Palin has a lot of reading and prepping to do before her one debate with Biden, who has extensive experience in foreign affairs. That would be the Palin Achille's heel which the Democrats will probably focus on.

Def. Biden's strong point. Being the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations committee, he has a huge advantage over Palin.

During the debates, she needs to stress her experience in working within the executive branch of a government, and the fact that she has a record of keeping her word regarding campaign promises.

 

[starsop93]

During the debates, she needs to stress her experience in working within the executive branch of a government, and the fact that she has a record of keeping her word regarding campaign promises.

Do you guys seriously believe being the governor of the second smallest state in the union (population-wise) for less than half the time that we do our residency is satisfactory experience to be President? I'll give you that she's attractive, but Bush supposedly was good to get a beer with. Is that all you need Republicans need to get excited? It was a "high-risk, high-benefit" pick and about the only thing McCain can do at this point, but McCain needs a VP ready to take over immediately given his age and health.

Experience apparently is of prime importance when the nominee is a Democrat, but pales in comparison to MILFiness when you're a Republican...

By most accounts she is a good person and has a great life story, and there are a few Clinton supporters who apparently vote only on presence or absence of a vagina. She will help McCain get those votes, but I don't see her peeling off many more than that. She's very socially conservative, and, when it becomes apparent to most women that the next president will likely have the power to overturn Roe v. Wade with his Supreme Court picks, I doubt most women will fall for the bait. Nevertheless, the ignorance and gullibility of many Americans has surprised me many times before (i.e. 2000 & 2004).

I doubt the dirty politics thing in AK will prove to have much traction. And, to this date, no VP candidate has ever been proven to turn an election, and I doubt that will happen this year.

 

[coprolalia]

Do you guys seriously believe being the governor of the second smallest state in the union (population-wise) for less than half the time that we do our residency is satisfactory experience to be President?

Same argument was made against Slick Willie when he ran in '92. Palin isn't running for president, remember.

I'll give you that she's attractive, but Bush supposedly was good to get a beer with. Is that all you need Republicans need to get excited?

Where above did any of "us" republicans make that assertion? The only people that are going to make this an issue are people who are going to attempt to denigrate and vilify her, or (as racerx put it) the young male demographic who, like racerx, are decidedly dispassionate fence straddlers.

Yours is proof that most people (stupidly) vote with their hearts instead of their minds. Keep it to the issues. Thanks.

-copro

 

[racerx]

the young male demographic who, like racerx, are decidedly dispassionate fence straddlers.-copro

Actually, I'm a lifelong Republican -- definitely NOT a fence straddler. Also, I am in the 35-45 demographic.

I was simply trying to generate some discussion regarding the pick without being told to take political discussions to the lounge. Also, I find it refreshing that the Repubs can present an alternative to the pinch-faced, b i tchy, mother-in-lawish harpys (Nancy Pelosi, Hillary, Barbara Boxer) the democrats have. I have no intention of voting with my d i c k nor heart. Wallet? Yes.

 

[QofQuimica]

Do you guys seriously believe being the governor of the second smallest state in the union (population-wise) for less than half the time that we do our residency is satisfactory experience to be President?

Do you seriously believe that a man who has been a senator for four years (the same length of time as an anesthesia residency) is more qualified to be president than McCain? Unlike Obama, Palin isn't running for president!

I'll give you that she's attractive

Irrelevant from my perspective; I'm not into other women. I'll even go so far as to acknowledge that Obama is quite attractive himself.

Is that all you need Republicans need to get excited?

I think this question says more about *your* shallowness than mine, actually. 😉

It was a "high-risk, high-benefit" pick and about the only thing McCain can do at this point, but McCain needs a VP ready to take over immediately given his age and health.

Possibly, possibly not. First, she's not an idiot; I don't think it would take her that long to get up to speed if the need arose. Second, I unfortunately lost the crystal ball that used to let me know how soon people will become incapacitated. Hopefully you can keep better tabs on yours.

Experience apparently is of prime importance when the nominee is a Democrat, but pales in comparison to MILFiness when you're a Republican...

See previous argument. There is a *big* difference between applying for VP versus applying for president.

By most accounts she is a good person and has a great life story, and there are a few Clinton supporters who apparently vote only on presence or absence of a vagina. She will help McCain get those votes, but I don't see her peeling off many more than that. She's very socially conservative, and, when it becomes apparent to most women that the next president will likely have the power to overturn Roe v. Wade with his Supreme Court picks, I doubt most women will fall for the bait. Nevertheless, the ignorance and gullibility of many Americans has surprised me many times before (i.e. 2000 & 2004).

Hello, allow me to introduce myself. I am a woman who is a registered Republican, fiscally conservative and socially moderate. We do actually exist. Not every human being with a vagina is a fan of abortion on demand (though I would not like to see it outlawed altogether regardless of circumstance). Regardless, abortion is one single issue, and it's not the most important one on my mind for this election. As a country, we have bigger problems to worry about right now. Obama generates plenty of heat, but I have yet to see much light; that's why he scares the bejeebers out of me.

 

[coprolalia]

Actually, I'm a lifelong Republican -- definitely NOT a fence straddler. Also, I am in the 35-45 demographic.

I was simply trying to generate some discussion regarding the pick without being told to take political discussions to the lounge. Also, I find it refreshing that the Repubs can present an alternative to the pinch-faced, b i tchy, mother-in-lawish harpys (Nancy Pelosi, Hillary, Barbara Boxer) the democrats have. I have no intention of voting with my d i c k nor heart. Wallet? Yes.

Well, this was your exact quote - from this very same thread...

I know nothing regarding her political record, and am interested in getting the big picture before making a choice this election.

Sorry, dude. You're hardly a "lifelong" republican based on this very comment.

-copro

 

[starsop93]

Do you seriously believe that a man who has been a senator for four years (the same length of time as an anesthesia residency) is more qualified to be president than McCain? Unlike Obama, Palin isn't running for president!

Hello, allow me to introduce myself. I am a woman who is a registered Republican, fiscally conservative and socially moderate. We do actually exist. Not every human being with a vagina is a fan of abortion on demand (though I would not like to see it outlawed altogether regardless of circumstance). Regardless, abortion is one single issue, and it's not the most important one on my mind for this election. As a country, we have bigger problems to worry about right now. Obama generates plenty of heat, but I have yet to see much light; that's why he scares the bejeebers out of me.

First off, I believe both are qualified to be president. McCain for his experience, and Obama for his judgement. Unfortunately, McCain's judgement is poor and Obama's experience, while thin, is sufficient to make up for McCain's deficiencies in my opinion. Of course, I disagree with most of McCain's (current) policies.

I agree abortion is just one issue, and I also understand that the vast majority of women vote based on issues and not on anatomy. My comment was that some very stupid Clinton voters apparently ONLY care about anatomy and are willing to vote completely against their interests to see a woman in (or near) the White House. Those might go for McCain, but most Democratic women are Pro-Choice and will not likely vote for McCain because of that issue and others, even with a female running mate. I do believe if McCain is elected, Roe v. Wade will be overturned by his choices for the Supreme Court. Abortion is unlikely to be outlawed throughout the land, but pretty much in all the red and purple states. Thankfully my state is bright blue and it should not be a problem.

Finally, many of you seem to use the term "scares the bejeebers out of me", or something similar with respect to Obama becoming president. Why is that? I swear that seems to be the main reason why many of you say you won't vote for him. Are you all just easily scared or is there some issue that you are referencing? McCain is promising to continue Bush's policies the next 4 years. That scares the bejeebers out of me! Our country is in real trouble and closing your eyes and hoping that somehow McCain will be different should be what is scaring you.

 

[racerx]

Well, this was your exact quote - from this very same thread...



Sorry, dude. You're hardly a "lifelong" republican based on this very comment.

-copro

One can be a lifelong member of a political party and vote the issues, not a party line. That being said, I have voted repub for every presidential candidate since Reagan. I guess that makes me a lifelong republican. . .at least since I was 18.

Have you ever played poker? I was trying to be non-committal to avoid showing my hand before I was ready. Believe me, I could never truly vote for BHO in good conscience.

Oh, and "dude", just because I made one statement to start this thread, doesn't make it so.

 

[amyl]

I heard the nurses and various other support staff kind of women saying they were planning on voting for mc cain just because he chose a woman. i know it is a stupid reason to vote for someone but the reality is many of the voters in this country make their decision for stupid reasons. i remember very vividly a segment, i think it was on the tonight show during bush v. gore where the man on the street asked people who they are voting for. after they responded, they were asked why and what their candidates positions were on the big topics of that election. no one knew their candidates positions, people were voting in knee-jerk manners. there are exceptions i know but i think the vast majority of the people in this country make a "blink" type decision about a candidate and thats it....either that or they mindlessly vote party lines...based on some vague idea of what their party probably used to stand for.
this was a very good choice for mc cain i think.

 

[amyl]

I think that is the idea but that it will backfire. All those Hillary supporters are going to remember the guy they dated all through senior year, and then he took a different girl to the prom. I think they will see Hillary as doing all this ground breaking work in the primary and then another girl getting picked up to go to the big show. That's just this girl's opinion.

I don't think so. hillary didn't make it because she is corrupt and full of s--t and just plain not as "likable" as obama, which is how 90% of this sometimes stupid country votes anyways.
young hip black guy picks stoggy old white washington insider. old stoggy guy picks young woman from a state most americans forgot we had. this election all bets are off, anyways, imho, the generation that thinks someone is inherently less because they are not a white male is the minority now, with more of them dying every day.
being a woman had nothing to do with hil not making it....but i bet she doesn't like mc cains choice all the same. i know she is paying lip service to obama but i wonder how much of behind the scenes obama undermining / mc cain supporting she is doing, and bill for that matter too. it is in her best interest for mc cain to win. if the clintons have proven anything its that they are ruthless. remember all those people related to that deal in arkansas that reeked before he got elected...i wonder where those people are now...oh wait, thats right, they're dead.

 

[coprolalia]

One can be a lifelong member of a political party and vote the issues, not a party line. That being said, I have voted repub for every presidential candidate since Reagan. I guess that makes me a lifelong republican. . .at least since I was 18.

Have you ever played poker? I was trying to be non-committal to avoid showing my hand before I was ready. Believe me, I could never truly vote for BHO in good conscience.

Oh, and "dude", just because I made one statement to start this thread, doesn't make it so.

I think your posts speak for themselves.

-copro

 

[QofQuimica]

Finally, many of you seem to use the term "scares the bejeebers out of me", or something similar with respect to Obama becoming president. Why is that? I swear that seems to be the main reason why many of you say you won't vote for him. Are you all just easily scared or is there some issue that you are referencing? McCain is promising to continue Bush's policies the next 4 years. That scares the bejeebers out of me! Our country is in real trouble and closing your eyes and hoping that somehow McCain will be different should be what is scaring you.

Reasons why Obama scares me:

1) He will almost certainly raise taxes. (I don't even have a real job at this point, but I will start residency during the next presidency, so it's a consideration.)
2) How he and the Democratic party treated Hillary (and I'm not even much of a Hillary fan, but it was still very low-class)
3) The company he keeps. I doubt most people would argue that Farrakhan is an unabashed racist and anti-Semite. Obama's church's minister Rev. Wright is an open admirer of his. Obama only half-heartedly distanced himself from Wright under significant pressure and duress. Wright is a man who extols how wonderful Farrakhan is and gave him an award. This is the man who has been an important spiritual advisor of Obama's!
4) Most important, his constant call for change without a solid plan of how exactly he intends to change anything (at least not that I've heard). I'm all for getting us out of Iraq ASAP, but not if it means letting their country implode after we deposed their former gov.

 

[racerx]

I think your posts speak for themselves.

-copro

1. Whatever. What I think politically really shouldn't matter to you anyhow.

2. You won't get a fight from me about politics.

3. You seem to just be looking for things to pick apart like a $hithouse lawyer. It has the feel of you still carrying on the hard feelings from my posts about other individual's activities in this forum. Those folks and I have made our peace, AFAIK. Besides, they can more than defend themselves. If you still carry hard feelings in proxy. . .just let it go.

4. As Lee stated, there is an ignore function if you don't like what I write. Please, please use it.

Nice try.

 

[coprolalia]

Reasons why Obama scares me:

1) He will almost certainly raise taxes. (I don't even have a real job at this point, but I will start residency during the next presidency, so it's a consideration.)
2) How he and the Democratic party treated Hillary (and I'm not even much of a Hillary fan, but it was still very low-class)
3) The company he keeps. I doubt most people would argue that Farrakhan is an unabashed racist and anti-Semite. Obama's church's minister Rev. Wright is an open admirer of his. Obama only half-heartedly distanced himself from Wright under significant pressure and duress. Wright is a man who extols how wonderful Farrakhan is and gave him an award. This is the man who has been an important spiritual advisor of Obama's!
4) Most important, his constant call for change without a solid plan of how exactly he intends to change anything (at least not that I've heard). I'm all for getting us out of Iraq ASAP, but not if it means letting their country implode after we deposed their former gov.

Number (4) on your list is the real reason why I think he's unelectable. The rest is not that important overall. Everyone has skeletons. But, the fact is all he's shown us so far is that he is all style and no substance. That's what's most worrisome to me.

As I said already, most Americans vote with their hearts, though, and not their heads. And, considering that less than 30% of the total American voting population has a college degree, that shouldn't be suprising.

-copro

 

[starsop93]

Reasons why Obama scares me:

1) He will almost certainly raise taxes. (I don't even have a real job at this point, but I will start residency during the next presidency, so it's a consideration.)

ANYBODY will have to raise taxes. Have you seen the federal budget??? We are in deep ****. The one thing the Republicans proved once and for all is that they are no more effective at decreasing the budget than the Democrats. If McCain doesn't raise taxes on someone, our country will be in pretty awful shape come your graduation from residency.

Reasons why Obama scares me:
2) How he and the Democratic party treated Hillary (and I'm not even much of a Hillary fan, but it was still very low-class)

The Democratic Party gave Hillary every chance imaginable to win the primary and she couldn't do it! The sexism that existed in that campaign mostly came from the pundits on Fox and MSNBC. I would argue the constant minimizing of Obama's support, and the aggressive courting of older white voters buy the Clinton campaign was racist and more than balances any slights they got from Obama. Not to mention the debacle with Florida and Michigan which, if it were reversed in Obama's favor, would have been (in the Clinton-supporter eyes) a bigger steal of an election than even 2000. Yet, because Clinton would have benefited, it didn't matter that everyone agreed to the rules beforehand; she should have been able to break those rules.

Reasons why Obama scares me:
3) The company he keeps. I doubt most people would argue that Farrakhan is an unabashed racist and anti-Semite. Obama's church's minister Rev. Wright is an open admirer of his. Obama only half-heartedly distanced himself from Wright under significant pressure and duress. Wright is a man who extols how wonderful Farrakhan is and gave him an award. This is the man who has been an important spiritual advisor of Obama's!

Farrakhan is a racist who supports Obama. You KNOW there are a lot of racists who support McCain! Is that either of their faults? I don't think so. Rev Wright is troublesome, but so are the crazy religious fanatics who swarm over the Republican convention. If you delve into the sermons of Hagee and Crazy Sweaty Preacher Guy (can't remember his name) they say equally odious things. I hope for the day when a presidential candidate doesn't have to prove that he loves God, the Bible, and Baby Jebus, as the Constitution says they don't, but that's going to be a while. When that happens, the crazy preachers will disappear and we can get away from this stupid distraction.

Reasons why Obama scares me:
4) Most important, his constant call for change without a solid plan of how exactly he intends to change anything (at least not that I've heard). I'm all for getting us out of Iraq ASAP, but not if it means letting their country implode after we deposed their former gov.

Obama has detailed policy plans on his website right here http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ . If you read it you will see that it is another right-wing lie that he hasn't proposed a "solid plan". I would argue it's John McCain who hasn't proposed much but "Drill Here, Drill Now!". Finally if you are "all for getting us out of Iraq ASAP" you will be voting for the wrong guy if you vote for McCain. He has said he won't do it until after his first term. That's trillions of dollars that we will continue to borrow from the Chinese to fund a war nobody wants that YOU will have to pay for (with EVEN higher taxes!) when the next president is elected.

 

[QofQuimica]

ANYBODY will have to raise taxes. Have you seen the federal budget??? We are in deep ****. The one thing the Republicans proved once and for all is that they are no more effective at decreasing the budget than the Democrats. If McCain doesn't raise taxes on someone, our country will be in pretty awful shape come your graduation from residency.



The Democratic Party gave Hillary every chance imaginable to win the primary and she couldn't do it! The sexism that existed in that campaign mostly came from the pundits on Fox and MSNBC. I would argue the constant minimizing of Obama's support, and the aggressive courting of older white voters buy the Clinton campaign was racist and more than balances any slights they got from Obama. Not to mention the debacle with Florida and Michigan which, if it were reversed in Obama's favor, would have been (in the Clinton-supporter eyes) a bigger steal of an election than even 2000. Yet, because Clinton would have benefited, it didn't matter that everyone agreed to the rules beforehand; she should have been able to break those rules.



Farrakhan is a racist who supports Obama. You KNOW there are a lot of racists who support McCain! Is that either of their faults? I don't think so. Rev Wright is troublesome, but so are the crazy religious fanatics who swarm over the Republican convention. If you delve into the sermons of Hagee and Crazy Sweaty Preacher Guy (can't remember his name) they say equally odious things. I hope for the day when a presidential candidate doesn't have to prove that he loves God, the Bible, and Baby Jebus, as the Constitution says they don't, but that's going to be a while. When that happens, the crazy preachers will disappear and we can get away from this stupid distraction.



Obama has detailed policy plans on his website right here http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ . If you read it you will see that it is another right-wing lie that he hasn't proposed a "solid plan". I would argue it's John McCain who hasn't proposed much but "Drill Here, Drill Now!". Finally if you are "all for getting us out of Iraq ASAP" you will be voting for the wrong guy if you vote for McCain. He has said he won't do it until after his first term. That's trillions of dollars that we will continue to borrow from the Chinese to fund a war nobody wants that YOU will have to pay for (with EVEN higher taxes!) when the next president is elected.

1) I disagree. If we cut unnecessary services, we won't have to raise taxes (or at least not to Democratic levels)
2) Being from FL, I am not happy that our state was essentially disenfranchised. The early primary that violates the rules is not the fault of the state's Democratic voters, but they are the ones who were penalized.
3) McCain doesn't have these people as his close spiritual advisors.
4) I said I wanted us out of Iraq ASAP but *not* if it means letting their country implode. We were idiots to go there, but now we need to finish the job. We have that responsibility now.

How detailed and realistic Obama's plans are is a matter of interpretation. We are just going to have to agree to disagree, my friend. All we can do now is wait for November. 🙂

 

[starsop93]

1) I disagree. If we cut unnecessary services, we won't have to raise taxes (or at least not to Democratic levels)

I hear that all we need to cut are "unnessary services" a lot. The only service with a budget to a level that cutting it would have any significant effect is the military. Few want to do that, although stopping the war quickly will help. I'm sorry, but the usual programs the Republicans talk of stopping are either non-starters (Medicare or Social Security) or are so small that it is really a drop in the bucket (Welfare). Plus those services are necessary for a lot of people. There just isn't the money or political will to stop enough programs to cut the budget as long as the war continues. Taxes have to be raised to bring it into control, at minimum.

2) Being from FL, I am not happy that our state was essentially disenfranchised. The early primary that violates the rules is not the fault of the state's Democratic voters, but they are the ones who were penalized.

It was not the fault of the Democratic voters, but it WAS the fault of the Democratic Party in Florida. They were told that if they moved their primary up it wouldn't count. All the Democratic candidates agreed they wouldn't campaign there and that any votes they had wouldn't count. A lot of Democrats did not vote because they knew it wouldn't count. Nevertheless, when Clinton realized that she might need those delegates, she changed her mind and tried to break the rules. It's unfortunate for your state, but if they break the rules and still count, everyone's primaries would be in January! Sorry, but your state screwed up (again...).

3) McCain doesn't have these people as his close spiritual advisors.

McCain actually HAD those people as his spirtual advisors until he was forced to cut them loose. Much like Obama.

4) I said I wanted us out of Iraq ASAP but *not* if it means letting their country implode. We were idiots to go there, but now we need to finish the job. We have that responsibility now.

How detailed and realistic Obama's plans are is a matter of interpretation. We are just going to have to agree to disagree, my friend. All we can do now is wait for November. 🙂

Iraq has $80 billion in surplus and what seems to be a manageable amount of violence. That is the BEST that can be hoped for in "finishing the job". We should leave now and try to save Afghanistan.

I hope for this country's sake that we make the right decision this year. I honestly fear that if we don't again (which will make it three times in a row), we will be down a long, depressing road of decline. McCain offers nothing new and is really bad "safe" choice. Obama will not be able to turn things around quickly in the best case, but McCain, like Bush, doesn't really see all the problems we have, so has little incentive to make a change. I hope the American people are smarter than that, although, I'm not optimistic. Nevertheless, as long as there are intelligent people out there like yourself who need to see the light 🙂, I can't agree to disagree given the critical nature of this choice.

 

[izzygoer]

Got to love those family values
Palin says 17-year-old daughter is pregnant

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIMJWupyWNmvU3UX2aGhICmZrQ_wD92U2M680




and leave it to the media they have already tracked down the suspect boyfriend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs

 

[starsop93]

“Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents,” Sarah and Todd Palin said in the brief statement.

Apparently the Palins agree that women have a right to choose!