Pain Management Mid-Level Indicted for Injecting Dead Baby Dust

[drusso]

Pain Management Physician's Assistant Charged in Amniotic Fluid Scam

A physician’s assistant who allegedly injected amniotic fluid into patients’ joints in a dubious attempt at pain management has been charged with healthcare fraud.

www.justice.gov

"An indictment is merely an allegation of criminal conduct, not evidence. Like all defendants, Mr. Shoulders is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. If convicted on all counts, he faces up to 120 years in federal prison – 10 years per count."

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[MitchLevi]

One of the PAs in my group was doing AmnioFlow in the knee and subacromial space. Never charged Medicare or any insurers.

I got super pissed off when I found out about it.

She wasn't doing it for financial reasons or any reason other than the fact she truly believed this would help ppl. It didn't work.

Basically, she saw a booth at a conference and got took.

 

[BobBarker]

She had patients willing to pay cash?

 

[BobBarker]

That is small potatoes compared to the heavy amnio users. He is really in trouble for falsifying the product used.

 

[MitchLevi]

She had patients willing to pay cash?

Yeah. Don't know the price.

 

[BobBarker]

I am almost certain you said your group was billing insurance for these a couple years ago. It might have been Somme other guy though.

 

[MitchLevi]

I am almost certain you said your group was billing insurance for these a couple years ago. It might have been Somme other guy though.

You could bill Medicare, VA and I believe Tricare when AmnioFlow came to the market. It lasted 3 years before it ended bc they apparently never planned on extending their license.

She did it for like 6 months or something. Only offered it to Medicare, VA and Tricare, but she never billed anyone's insurance.

I prob brought it to the forum when I first found out. I had to talk to our COO about it. Pretty sure when I found out I was under the assumption she WAS billing it.

Thankfully, that wasn't the case.

 

[Agast]

She did it for like 6 months or something. Only offered it to Medicare, VA and Tricare, but she never billed anyone's insurance.

So…it was free? That population isn’t really the cash spending type…

 

[MitchLevi]

Cash. Not exactly sure why it was only offered to certain ppl.

I THINK the rep tried to get her to bill insurance but she never did.

I realize how confusing this is.

I can't explain it and I don't need to explain it.

I don't recall the details but she was doing these injxns and they didn't work. In fact, several of these pts described feeling worse pain afterwards.

It took a long investigation by our administration to get to the bottom of it - Who paid, who was billed, etc...

I could have sworn no one's insurance was ever actually billed and it was exclusively purchased for cash.

 

[epidural man]

I used to inject AmnioFix all the time. I thought it worked great.

Then the DoD said we weren’t allowed to use the product anymore.


That’s too bad I think. It worked better than PRP.

 

[epidural man]

I am not defending the PA - the way the DOJ puts it, he sounds very suspect….but I don’t really trust the “goberment” (spoken with a southern drawl).

But regarding this statement “They do reimburse for some – but not all – amniotic injections administered to reduce inflammation of damaged tissue, as in a wound.”

Not sure how a damaged rotator cuff isn’t considered a “wound.”

 

[lobelsteve]

I am not defending the PA - the way the DOJ puts it, he sounds very suspect….but I don’t really trust the “goberment” (spoken with a southern drawl).

But regarding this statement “They do reimburse for some – but not all – amniotic injections administered to reduce inflammation of damaged tissue, as in a wound.”

Not sure how a damaged rotator cuff isn’t considered a “wound.”

By that logic an MI is a wound, as is appendicitis.

 

[Baron Samedi]

I used to inject AmnioFix all the time. I thought it worked great.

Then the DoD said we weren’t allowed to use the product anymore.


That’s too bad I think. It worked better than PRP.

Mimedx had all sorts of investigations for fraud and illegal kickbacks, and they also had some atrocious FDA inspection findings. Think that's why DoD pulled out.

 

[jsaul]

I remember several distributors trying to get me to buy amnioflow or fluid flow whatever it's called because medicare was reimbursing for it. This was back in 2019. They showed be eobs from other pain docs showing that they got reimbursed

 

[MitchLevi]

I remember several distributors trying to get me to buy amnioflow or fluid flow whatever it's called because medicare was reimbursing for it. This was back in 2019. They showed be eobs from other pain docs showing that they got reimbursed

The clawback on that was heavy handed if I remember correctly. Many cases of the doctor passing that cost on to the patient.