Parent has high income, but they aren't supporting me

[AnatomyGrey12]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Clearly not the most popular view in this thread, but how is making 350k and keeping it all to yourself (because let's be honest, someone who won't even help their kid is in almost all cases not putting their money towards noble pursuits) not selfish, materialistic, etc. I don't know about you, but I would consider that a fundamental character flaw and would imagine/hope that the future/current physicians of our country would feel likewise...

That said OP, no you won't be getting financial aid. Just take the loans, work hard, and one day make sure that you are a better parent.

As for reasoning, what is the benefit or rational which justifies not paying for one's kid's medical expenses when one is fully capable?

I really lol'd at this post. The entitlement is oozing through the page. Perhaps the parents don't pay for this because they don't owe their kid anything and it does people good to have to put on their big kid pants and not be fed by the golden spoon. My parent's worked their butts off to get where they are today, why should I feel that I am entitled to any of that?

What does how you grew up even have to do with life during post-medical graduation? Sounds like someone is very entitled.

The notion that I should have to carry a burden of debt after medical school and you should have to carry nothing just because we grew up in different environment is entitled, selfish, and outright stupid. That was THEN. This is NOW.

If you can't see the difference between someone who grew up with nothing and someone who grew up with everything then I don't know what to say to you.

However, refusing to contribute anything to medical school costs(not pay it all, just contribute) does absolutely nothing to instill human decency or responsibility in OP.

Lol wrong. It makes you have to actually be an adult and learn how to manage your own situation. I grew up having to work and pay for my own schooling and manage every facet of my life based on what I was making without any handouts from my parents. Now that I am married with a family of my own my wife and I are very independent and manage our life completely without either of our parent's help. I attribute that completely to our parent's forcing us to learn how to be adults even when they could have easily given us lots of assistance.

All it does is force OP to have more debt than his peers, which will then put added pressure on him during an already stressful time.

More debt than his peers? You mean the same peers where the majority are taking out the exact same amount in loans?

 

[700825]

I really lol'd at this post. The entitlement is oozing through the page. Perhaps the parents don't pay for this because they don't owe their kid anything and it does people good to have to put on their big kid pants and not be fed by the golden spoon. My parent's worked their butts off to get where they are today, why should I feel that I am entitled to any of that?



If you can't see the difference between someone who grew up with nothing and someone who grew up with everything then I don't know what to say to you.



Lol wrong. It makes you have to actually be an adult and learn how to manage your own situation. I grew up having to work and pay for my own schooling and manage every facet of my life based on what I was making without any handouts from my parents. Now that I am married with a family of my own my wife and I are very independent and manage our life completely without either of our parent's help. I attribute that completely to our parent's forcing us to learn how to be adults even when they could have easily given us lots of assistance.



More debt than his peers? You mean the same peers where the majority are taking out the exact same amount in loans?

Nice straw man and ad hominen rolled into one. My argument was not that parents owe their kids paying for medical school or that OP is entitled to their parents money, my argument was that from the perspective of the parent it is morally commendable to contribute if you are capable, which OPs parents undeniably are.

I fail to understand how OP's parents contributing 10k or so to their medical education robs them of the experience of having to mange their finances. In fact, the only time one would notice a difference between managing loan money and their parents money is post residency. No one is suggesting OPs parents fund a lavish lifestyle...I am merely arguing that, one again, it would be morally commendable that OPs parents contribute an amount similar to the grant amount that OP will not be receiving due to their financial well being.

As for the anecdote, as someone who paid there way through undergraduate, I agree that this helps one gain valuable skills. However, we aren't talking about OP's parents refusing to pay for undergraduate, where through scholarships + work it is entirely possible to avoid crushing, high interest debt, we are talking about taking out less loans vs. taking out more loans.

 

[OchemOficionado]

Fair enough.

And I was comparing OPs debt to their peers because for this to even be a discussion OP must have gotten into one of the upper tier schools that gives out significant financial aid (otherwise why would they care if they qualified for aid, if there was no aid). So off this assumption, OPs classmates would for the most part either a) be getting financial aid or b) have significant familial contributions. Not saying straight loans is the end of the world (that's pretty much how I'll be paying), but rather saying that imo less debt would equate to less pressure to get into high paying specialties and more freedom to pursue one's interests.

I understand your thought process a little better now. I think the pressure regarding picking a specialty based on debt may be overblown. There are post graduation opportunities to help lower the amount you actually pay back. Either way, I don’t think it’s an issue because being a physician is a choice. Regardless of how you pay for it.

 

[scienceguy95]

My parents are well off and have a combined income almost the same as the OP. I am completely fine with them not helping with paying for medical school, and would never even have thought about asking for their help.

I mean, they supported me almost entirely from birth through to high school, and helped significantly in paying for my undergraduate degree. I didn't have to go to medical school. I could have gotten a job straight out of college as the majority of people do. Instead, as an adult I opted to do something I knew would incur significant debt over many additional years as my own choice. No one calls a parent selfish for saying no to their 20-something kid if he or she asks them to gift them a a giant sum of money to jump-start their business, because this is what they decided to do after college instead of getting a job. I'm not sure why so many on here see asking their parents for the same kind of money to go to medical school as so drastically different. Going to medical school is an independent decision you make as an adult and absolutely do not have to do. My parents shouldn't be obligated to have to pay for it, and I honestly would never want to burden my parents in the first place with the costs of my own decision when I have options to fund it myself via loans that won't even impact my career.

The entitlement in this thread is pretty bad. It isn't selfish for parents to not want to continue to pay for the expenses adult children incur willingly from the choices they make, especially when they can independently finance their own adult decisions through loans. I know for a fact that if I ever fell on times so hard that I was facing being homeless my parents would do whatever it took to help. But come on, having to take on loans to pay for medical school even if others are lucky to be able to take on less is nothing close to that.

I think there may be a cultural divide on this particular issue. Where I come from parents help their kids as much as possible (both financially and otherwise) well into adult life. On the flip side, there is definitely greater expected responsibility for children in helping take care of their parents in old age (both financially and otherwise). The importance of family support is not the same in all cultures. I personally think it's immoral to let your kids go into debt if you have the financial means to prevent that. But I also think it's immoral for kids to let their parents fend for themselves in old age.

 

[LizzyM]

Let's come back to the original question: should a medical school require financial information from the student's parents before need based grants (free money) are awarded?

 

[700825]

I understand your thought process a little better now. I think the pressure regarding picking a specialty based on debt may be overblown. There are post graduation opportunities to help lower the amount you actually pay back. Either way, I don’t think it’s an issue because being a physician is a choice. Regardless of how you pay for it.

That's a fair point. Snd honestly, moral or not, that is what OP is going to have to decide: take the debt and pursue medicine or do something else. I chose the debt, but only OP can really make that decision for him/herself. Anyway, enjoyed the discussion🙂

 

[siliso]

Let's come back to the original question: should a medical school require financial information from the student's parents before need based grants (free money) are awarded?

Nah, I’m on board with the joint Dubbi/LizzyM plan now. VA for All!

I’m actually serious about that but under current conditions yes - what else can you go on - everyone who just got out of college is “low income” if you look at them alone.

 

[700825]

Let's come back to the original question: should a medical school require financial information from the student's parents before need based grants (free money) are awarded?

I would say definitely. Even if parents do not directly contribute to medical school costs (which in many cases they do), upper and middle class families often contribute in other ways (paying for health insurance + paying for car insurance + paying for books) that it is not financially possibly for truly lower income families to contribute in. The case of OP is an anomaly rather than the norm for financially well off medical students, and for better or worse, policy imo should be made based on the norm.

 

[NITRAS]

The OP could go to a cheaper medical school. . .

My graduating class (of 2008) had a median loans of 138k if memory serves me, and I don't remember have any "need based" grants available.

Just my opinion, but going into debt $600k and spending 7 years to get a job making $200k isn't bright. Median hospitalist salary is $280k last time I looked.

 

[Spectar]

The OP could go to a cheaper medical school. . .

My graduating class (of 2008) had a median loans of 138k if memory serves me, and I don't remember have any "need based" grants available.

Just my opinion, but going into debt $600k and spending 7 years to get a job making $200k isn't bright. Median hospitalist salary is $280k last time I looked.

Many applicants only gain admission to one medical school (something like 60%, gonnif has the exact statistic). How can you choose a cheaper medical school if you are only admitted to one?

Median loans statistics are pretty much hogwash, given that the majority of medical students are upper middle class or above. Along with the fact that it includes undergraduate debt.

 

[DBC03]

I understand the OP’s frustration. Imagine being in your mid-30s, having been married for over 10 years and off your parents’ taxes for over 15, and having to pay for most of undergrad yourself, and STILL having to give parents’ tax information. It’s frustrating, but I understand why they ask for it. My parents flat out told us we were responsible for any undergraduate debt over the state school amount. But what they weren’t paying for us they WERE putting aside in a retirement account. We plan to do what we can for my parents when they get older, but it’s such a relief to know that they have money set aside for retirement. And while my parents really won’t chip in for any kind of medical school expenses, they have offered periodically to help out in other ways - ways that very poor parents would not be able to. I think it’s difficult to see the whole picture from any one vantage point.

Ultimately, OP, you will likely have to take out federal loans, and you’ll be considered separately from your parents. I got very creative when paying back loans and I have a new appreciation for finances. It’s painful in many ways, but you will likely be a better person in the end. Best of luck!


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

 

[freedoctor17]

My school requires parental information for need-based aid if you’re not married.

Sounds like theres a simple work around to that 😉

 

[LizzyM]

Nah, I’m on board with the joint Dubbi/LizzyM plan now. VA for All!

I’m actually serious about that but under current conditions yes - what else can you go on - everyone who just got out of college is “low income” if you look at them alone.

Except the trust fund babies.

 

[Kr#36]

Let's come back to the original question: should a medical school require financial information from the student's parents before need based grants (free money) are awarded?

I’ve never thought about it all that much, but I don’t understand the reasoning for need based aid to exist at all. Loans are available to cover the entire cost of attendance, so your family’s money doesn’t mean much in regards to your ability to attend. Shouldn’t the aid be dispersed based on merit and not the success of your parents?

 

[siliso]

I’m just a simple flyover person, we don’t have those where I come from 😀

 

[OchemOficionado]

I’ve never thought about it all that much, but I don’t understand the reasoning for need based aid to exist at all. Loans are available to cover the entire cost of attendance, so your family’s money doesn’t mean much in regards to your ability to attend. Shouldn’t the aid be dispersed based on merit and not the success of your parents?

1. Some donors are specific about the eligibility requirements for the funds they donate. 2. Overwhelmingly low socioeconomic status impacts grades so why ONLY grant scholarships to those that likely have a lot of monetary help?

(I’m speaking in general)

 

[treatem-and-streetem]

I have been living on my own for the last 4 years, am married, and still had to put my parent's info for financial aid....andddd guess what? No scholarships! Who knew putting that your parents made 150k+ would destroy chances at getting a scholarship even though I make my own living. Yay for the US government.

 

[onyxbell]

As an int'l I'm just stuffing myself with popcorns, considering that at the VERY least you guys have the OPTIONS for loans.

Then again I can't use the roll-safe meme of "don't need to worry about debt if no school accepts you" anymore #humblestofbrag

 

[IlDestriero]

This thread is hilarious.
Nobody is entitled to my money, certainly not my adult children. I am free to spend it however I wish, and doing so doesn’t make me a particularly good or bad person. Will my kids have grad school debt? Possibly. Will I have a V12 Ferrari? Yep. Those things are not related.
My kids will get what I choose to give them, and if I raised them right, they’ll be happy to get what they get.
My parents could have bankrolled the whole wad, no problem. But that’s not how I roll.
Being an adult, I accepted ownership of my decision to attend medical school and all that went along with it. They gave me many things, a vacation, a (used) car, some walking around money to enjoy a pretty decent lifestyle, and I was very grateful for it. However, I took responsibility for my own tuition and expenses. That’s what adults do.


--
Il Destriero

 

[scienceguy95]

This thread is hilarious.
Nobody is entitled to my money, certainly not my adult children. I am free to spend it however I wish, and doing so doesn’t make me a particularly good or bad person. Will my kids have grad school debt? Possibly. Will I have a V12 Ferrari? Yep. Those things are not related.
My kids will get what I choose to give them, and if I raised them right, they’ll be happy to get what they get.
My parents could have bankrolled the whole wad, no problem. But that’s not how I roll.
Being an adult, I accepted ownership of my decision to attend medical school and all that went along with it. They gave me many things, a vacation, a (used) car, some walking around money to enjoy a pretty decent lifestyle, and I was very grateful for it. However, I took responsibility for my own tuition and expenses. That’s what adults do.


--
Il Destriero

And that's fine but just realize not everyone agrees with your mindset. Where I come from driving a Ferrari while your kids are taking on debt isn't right (assuming they've otherwise made responsible life decisions). This idea that adults are "entitled" to their parents' money is a complete strawman. We're just sharing a different perspective informed by different life experiences.

 

[LizzyM]

Being an adult, I accepted ownership of my decision to attend medical school and all that went along with it. They gave me many things, a vacation, a (used) car, some walking around money to enjoy a pretty decent lifestyle, and I was very grateful for it. However, I took responsibility for my own tuition and expenses. That’s what adults do.


--
Il Destriero

(emphasis mine)

And this is why some schools give need-based scholarships to some students. It evens the playing field.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

I don’t understand the reasoning for need based aid to exist at all. Loans are available to cover the entire cost of attendance, so your family’s money doesn’t mean much in regards to your ability to attend. Shouldn’t the aid be dispersed based on merit and not the success of your parents?

And this is why some schools give need-based scholarships to some students. It evens the playing field.

Not meant to bash...Just a teachable moment so that all can understand why need-based aid is fundamental to evening the playing field based on different starting circumstances. @LizzyM is absolutely correct.

 

[balston82]

And that's fine but just realize not everyone agrees with your mindset. Where I come from driving a Ferrari while your kids are taking on debt isn't right (assuming they've otherwise made responsible life decisions). This idea that adults are "entitled" to their parents' money is a complete strawman. We're just sharing a different perspective informed by different life experiences.

Strawman? You're literally saying that if a parent is well off they're morally obligated to use their own money to prevent their adult children from accruing debt. If that's not entitlement I don't know what is. After 18 you're an adult and what you choose to pursue is your own responsibility. Blows me away that instead of being grateful for a great childhood ppl would instead be resentful that mom and dad didn't pay for med school too.

 

[scienceguy95]

Strawman? You're literally saying that if a parent is well off they're morally obligated to use their own money to prevent their adult children from accruing debt. If that's not entitlement I don't know what is. After 18 you're an adult and what you choose to pursue is your own responsibility. Blows me away that instead of being grateful for a great childhood ppl would instead be resentful that mom and dad didn't pay for med school too.

Moral obligation is probably too strong, but it conveys the idea. You’re making a lot of assumptions about people with different values (i.e, they’re not grateful for their childhood support). If anything, it’s the parents who believe this most strongly. You don’t want to help your kids out because they’ve crossed the magic age number? More power to you. I personally don’t think that’s right and will not treat my kids that way, just as my parents didn’t treat me that way and their parents.

Your perspective is probably shaped by traditional American culture. But that’s not the only valid or acceptable mindset.

 

[balston82]

Moral obligation is probably too strong, but it conveys the idea. You’re making a lot of assumptions about people with different values (i.e, they’re not grateful for their childhood support). If anything, it’s the parents who believe this most strongly. You don’t want to help your kids out because they’ve crossed the magic age number? More power to you. I personally don’t think that’s right and will not treat my kids that way, just as my parents didn’t treat me that way and their parents.

Your perspective is probably shaped by traditional American culture. But that’s not the only valid or acceptable mindset.

Moral obligation is probably too strong, but it conveys the idea. You’re making a lot of assumptions about people with different values (i.e, they’re not grateful for their childhood support). If anything, it’s the parents who believe this most strongly. You don’t want to help your kids out because they’ve crossed the magic age number? More power to you. I personally don’t think that’s right and will not treat my kids that way, just as my parents didn’t treat me that way and their parents.

Your perspective is probably shaped by traditional American culture. But that’s not the only valid or acceptable mindset.

Oh I have no problem at all with a parent choosing to help out their kids, no matter the age. My only issue is the expectation on the child's part that this help is owed to them because it isn't.

 

[700825]

This thread is hilarious.
Nobody is entitled to my money, certainly not my adult children. I am free to spend it however I wish, and doing so doesn’t make me a particularly good or bad person. Will my kids have grad school debt? Possibly. Will I have a V12 Ferrari? Yep. Those things are not related.
My kids will get what I choose to give them, and if I raised them right, they’ll be happy to get what they get.
My parents could have bankrolled the whole wad, no problem. But that’s not how I roll.
Being an adult, I accepted ownership of my decision to attend medical school and all that went along with it. They gave me many things, a vacation, a (used) car, some walking around money to enjoy a pretty decent lifestyle, and I was very grateful for it. However, I took responsibility for my own tuition and expenses. That’s what adults do.


--
Il Destriero

You're deliberately being obtuse. No one is arguing that the kid is entitled to their parents money. Do whatever you want with your money, as you said it's your money. However, to say that this decision says nothing about one's character is abjectly wrong by any but the most convoluted of moral systems. From your example alone:

Selfish: lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
Greedy: having or showing an intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth or power.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

However, to say that this decision says nothing about one's character is abjectly wrong by any but the most convoluted of moral systems.

Lol, and how exactly is it a poor showing of character to have your adult child be financially responsible for their own decisions? Having a Ferrari is not selfish or greedy simply because you won't pay for your ADULT children's chosen career path but have a Ferrari. That is an absolutely ridiculous statement.

 

[FlavivirusProtease]

You're deliberately being obtuse. No one is arguing that the kid is entitled to their parents money. Do whatever you want with your money, as you said it's your money. However, to say that this decision says nothing about one's character is abjectly wrong by any but the most convoluted of moral systems. From your example alone:

Selfish: lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
Greedy: having or showing an intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth or power.

I struggle to call someone who went to work every day for 22 years and postponed their own desires so I could be fed, clothed, live happily, and go to college selfish or greedy.

My parents also make around the same amount of money as OP's. They've been saving and living minimally since I was born, and they've offered to pay the entirety of my medical education without asking for reimbursement. I declined them, because I understand that it isn't selfish or greedy of them to spend their own hard earned money on themselves and they don't need to fund my decisions until I'm well into adulthood. I would rather them invest the money they'd spend on me in medical school, retire 5 years earlier, and enjoy their lives.

Let's use your definition of selfish and greedy. Do you think that asking your parents to put off potentially retiring so you have less debt fulfills either of those definitions?

 

[Kr#36]

1. Some donors are specific about the eligibility requirements for the funds they donate. 2. Overwhelmingly low socioeconomic status impacts grades so why ONLY grant scholarships to those that likely have a lot of monetary help?

(I’m speaking in general)

1. Makes sense.

2. That makes some sense for year 1 but not 2-4. I’d argue it is tough to tell how much ones background actually influences their mcat etc.

 

[calivianya]

Not directed at anyone in particular; just the people on this thread who think parents should help pay for their kids' medical school because of "hardship." Let's just talk about said "crushing debt" for a moment....

Let's say with a $600k loan you are unfortunate enough to get a job where you are stuck making $200k/year with no raises ever. Let's assume with where you live, 40% of your money is gone in taxes right off the bat. In this very overstated scenario, you lose $80k to taxes... left with "only" $120k/year to pay the bills, so $10k cash per month.

Let's look at a pretty bad loan repayment option. Let's say you refinance it to 20 years, $600k, at 7% interest - we're assuming unsubsidized loans. Monthly payments would be $6117.11 for 20 years. If that was your repayment option, you have $3882.89 left after taxes and student loan payments both every month.

You do realize there are people who feed a family of five on less than that every month, right? Even with one of the worst loan amounts, worst jobs, and worst repayment options imaginable for this profession, you still have it better than a ton of people in the US will ever have it in their whole lives.

Around $3k/month is what I live off of right now for full-time income, and with that income, I saved enough in a year to put $10k down on a house and I own a sports car (cheaper one, but still). Obviously, life is terrible with $3k+/month after taxes and you need handouts/help to live. 🙄

 

[Kr#36]

Not meant to bash...Just a teachable moment so that all can understand why need-based aid is fundamental to evening the playing field based on different starting circumstances. @LizzyM is absolutely correct.

I’ve seen that video before, it’s interesting. I certainly understand why it exists and worded my post incorrectly. I get why, I just don’t agree with it and would support a 100% merit based system.

 

[700825]

I struggle to call someone who went to work every day for 22 years and postponed their own desires so I could be fed, clothed, live happily, and go to college selfish or greedy.

My parents also make around the same amount of money as OP's. They've been saving and living minimally since I was born, and they've offered to pay the entirety of my medical education without asking for reimbursement. I declined them, because I understand that it isn't selfish or greedy of them to spend their own hard earned money on themselves and they don't need to fund my decisions until I'm well into adulthood. I would rather them invest the money they'd spend on me in medical school, retire 5 years earlier, and enjoy their lives.

Let's use your definition of selfish and greedy. Do you think that asking your parents to put off potentially retiring so you have less debt fulfills either of those definitions?

Umm nobody making 350k is living minimally...the fact that you'd even think that is amusing.

As for the second part, I believe it goes both ways...parents help you when you need it and once your out of med school and working you return the favor. I'm not sure why the idea that you help a family member when you can and then they do tha same for you is so hard to grasp...

 

[Kr#36]

Umm nobody making 350k is living minimally...the fact that you'd even think that is amusing.

As for the second part, I believe it goes both ways...parents help you when you need it and once your out of med school and working you return the favor. I'm not sure why the idea that you help a family member when you can and then they do tha same for you is so hard to grasp...

While you’re likely right, you have no clue how that family is living. Just because they’re taking in a lot of money doesn’t mean they’re shelling out a lot.

 

[700825]

Lol, and how exactly is it a poor showing of character to have your adult child be financially responsible for their own decisions? Having a Ferrari is not selfish or greedy simply because you won't pay for your ADULT children's chosen career path but have a Ferrari. That is an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Having a 200-300k car, by any definition of the word is in and of itself both selfish greedy...the adult child does not even need be involved.

 

[FlavivirusProtease]

Umm nobody making 350k is living minimally...the fact that you'd even think that is amusing.

As for the second part, I believe it goes both ways...parents help you when you need it and once your out of med school and working you return the favor. I'm not sure why the idea that you help a family member when you can and then they do tha same for you is so hard to grasp...

Warren Buffett makes over 10 Billion per year, lives in a small house that fits his needs, which he bought in 1958, and drives a 2006 Cadillac. How much you make has no bearing on whether or not you live minimally.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

2. That makes some sense for year 1 but not 2-4. I’d argue it is tough to tell how much ones background actually influences their mcat etc.

There have been studies that show this. The one thing that has the highest correlation with MCAT scores is socioeconomic status. Those in the highest SES on average scored around a 30 while those in the lowest SES average around a 24.

 

[700825]

While you’re likely right, you have no clue how that family is living. Just because they’re taking in a lot of money doesn’t mean they’re shelling out a lot.

FAFSA takes into account, debt, assets or lack there of, amount contributed to retirement/amount in retirement, siblings in school, medical expenses, etc. I qualify for aid solely due to the above factors.

Warren Buffett makes over 10 Billion per year, lives in a small house that fits his needs, which he bought in 1958, and drives a 2006 Cadillac. How much you make has no bearing on whether or not you live minimally.

What does that have to do with the discussion? The parent in this case is either not living minimally (99% chance) or is living minimally by choice. There is almost no situation (outside of those accounted for on fafsa) where someone making that some would have to live minimally, which is what you inferred.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

There have been studies that show this. The one thing that has the highest correlation with MCAT scores is socioeconomic status. Those in the highest SES on average scored around a 30 while those in the lowest SES average around a 24.

Additionally, as a personal anecdote. I am of the lower SES bracket without parental support and have been very transparent on SDN regarding how I was able to make my interviews work. As for the MCAT, I could not afford a prep course or 2015 MCAT commercial material, so I had to scrounge up pre-2015 MCAT commercial material to use. It was not ideal, but that's life...

 

[Kr#36]

There have been studies that show this. The one thing that has the highest correlation with MCAT scores is socioeconomic status. Those in the highest SES on average scored around a 30 while those in the lowest SES average around a 24.

There are plenty of factors that play into that and they all can’t be attributed to SES. This is coming from someone with poor parents who did well anyways.

 

[FlavivirusProtease]

What does that have to do with the discussion? The parent in this case is either not living minimally (99% chance) or is living minimally by choice. There is almost no situation (outside of those accounted for on fafsa) where someone making that some would have to live minimally, which is what you inferred.

I explained to you why they lived minimally. So that when the day came they could offer to pay the medical school CoA for both me and my brother (around 700K). That was their choice, but in the end it's unnecessary and not required. Why did you simply chose to focus on the fact that I said they live minimally and ignore the rest of the argument. I'll paste it for you here.

they've offered to pay the entirety of my medical education without asking for reimbursement. I declined them, because I understand that it isn't selfish or greedy of them to spend their own hard earned money on themselves and they don't need to fund my decisions until I'm well into adulthood. I would rather them invest the money they'd spend on me in medical school, retire 5 years earlier, and enjoy their lives.

Let's use your definition of selfish and greedy. Do you think that asking your parents to put off potentially retiring so you have less debt fulfills either of those definitions?

I just want you to recognize that you're being entitled. Nobody in this world owes you anything. Least of all your parents, because they've already given you so much. Learn to depend on yourself and succeed.

 

[Ribonucleic Acid]

I thought medical schools look at the Estimated Family Contribution(EFC) value on the FAFSA. I'm not sure if this is the same thing thing as undergrad, but it's something to look into.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[700825]

I explained to you why they lived minimally. So that when the day came they could offer to pay the medical school CoA for both me and my brother (around 700K). That was their choice, but in the end it's unnecessary and not required. Why did you simply chose to focus on the fact that I said they live minimally and ignore the rest of the argument. I'll paste it for you here.

Your argument is that it is selfish for the kid to accept help, that they clearly need, paying for medical school? No, it would be selfish to demand that one's parent pay for medical school, but accepting help they offer is not selfish. From the parents perspective, what your parents did is morally commendable...they put aside their own wants to help their kid. It is what from my perspective a parent morally should do (assuming they are capable) and what I will undoubtedly do for my own children.

Edit: because this discussion has no relevance to OPs situation, whether his parents are moral or not, they are still not paying and he is just going to have to accept that and make it work, I will be open to continuing any discussion via PM, but will not be derailing the thread any further.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

There are plenty of factors that play into that and they all can’t be attributed to SES. This is coming from someone with poor parents who did well anyways.

Show me where I said SES is the only factor at play in regards to MCAT score?

It is the one thing that has been shown to have the highest impact but obviously it is not the only thing that matters. I am glad you did well on your test despite the challenges you've faced but again your case is not the majority based on the data.

 

[willow84]

I understand the OP’s frustration. Imagine being in your mid-30s, having been married for over 10 years and off your parents’ taxes for over 15, and having to pay for most of undergrad yourself, and STILL having to give parents’ tax information. It’s frustrating, but I understand why they ask for it. My parents flat out told us we were responsible for any undergraduate debt over the state school amount. But what they weren’t paying for us they WERE putting aside in a retirement account. We plan to do what we can for my parents when they get older, but it’s such a relief to know that they have money set aside for retirement. And while my parents really won’t chip in for any kind of medical school expenses, they have offered periodically to help out in other ways - ways that very poor parents would not be able to. I think it’s difficult to see the whole picture from any one vantage point.

Ultimately, OP, you will likely have to take out federal loans, and you’ll be considered separately from your parents. I got very creative when paying back loans and I have a new appreciation for finances. It’s painful in many ways, but you will likely be a better person in the end. Best of luck!


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

+1

I was pretty frustrated (as were my parents) that as a 30-something adult who was married for eight years I had to provide parental income, but I see why. While my mom doesn't give me any money at this point in my life, at the end of the day, she'd never let me starve, get evicted, lose my car, or miss out on something I need for school. Not everyone has that luxury.

 

[Kr#36]

Show me where I said SES is the only factor at play in regards to MCAT score?

It is the one thing that has been shown to have the highest impact but obviously it is not the only thing that matters. I am glad you did well on your test despite the challenges you've faced but again your case is not the majority based on the data.

I’m saying I believe SES gets more “credit” as an excuse in these studies than it deserves, not that you said it’s the factor.

My point is that it can be overcome, and when it comes to physicians I’d advocate for the best of the best regardless of how they got to that point. It’s only an opinion though and obviously isn’t the way our current system works which is fine.

 

[OchemOficionado]

1. Makes sense.

2. That makes some sense for year 1 but not 2-4. I’d argue it is tough to tell how much ones background actually influences their mcat etc.

It’s not tough at all. People have researched this. The info is out there regarding how socioeconomic status influences education. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

I’m saying I believe SES gets more “credit” as an excuse in these studies than it deserves, not that you said it’s the factor.

My point is that it can be overcome, and when it comes to physicians I’d advocate for the best of the best regardless of how they got to that point. It’s only an opinion though and obviously isn’t the way our current system works which is fine.

I see. I agree with you completely that it can be overcomed, and there are those that do so with flying colors. But I do think advocating for no need-based aid is being insensitive to those who come from similar situations as you. Again as the video from that one post showed how do you determine who really deserves the "merit" based aid then. Lets use the example in the video posted earlier do you do it by just those who finish first or those who actually ran the fastest - because as the video showed the system is skewed so that even if you were the best runner you would likely still lose.

Maybe the issue is with using the term "need-based" because anyone can frame it that they "need" money therefore they should get "need-based" aid. I am just not sure what term would be better though.

 

[Kr#36]

I see. I agree with you completely that it can be overcomed, and there are those that do so with flying colors. But I do think advocating for no need-based aid is being insensitive to those who come from similar situations as you. Again as the video from that one post showed how do you determine who really deserves the "merit" based aid then. Lets use the example in the video posted earlier do you do it by just those who finish first or those who actually ran the fastest - because as the video showed the system is skewed so that even if you were the best runner you would likely still lose.

Maybe the issue is with using the term "need-based" because anyone can frame it that they "need" money therefore they should get "need-based" aid. I am just not sure what term would be better though.

Yep those are very valid points. I openly admit I’m not overly sensitive because I’ve been there. I currently support my parents despite being a student and will do so throughout med school via an online business. My opinion is that it should be based on who “gets to the finish line the fastest” in regards to the overall video. It’s too complicated to try to take into account who had what length head start. When it comes to patient care I want the best despite the head start. Again, just my opinion and it’s perfectly acceptable to think my opinion is BS.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Having a 200-300k car, by any definition of the word is in and of itself both selfish greedy...the adult child does not even need be involved.

Lol extravagant maybe but having an expensive car does not inherently make you selfish or greedy. Thanks for the laugh though.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

Yep those are very valid points. I openly admit I’m not overly sensitive because I’ve been there. I currently support my parents despite being a student and will do so throughout med school via an online business. My opinion is that it should be based on who “gets to the finish line the fastest” in regards to the overall video. It’s too complicated to try to take into account who had what length head start. When it comes to patient care I want the best despite the head start. Again, just my opinion and it’s perfectly acceptable to think my opinion is BS.

I respectfully disagree with you. There is more to patient care than just having stats and numbers. Those with the highest stats do not necessarily provide the best patient care. Many of those in the lower SES are also minority groups. They bring a much needed cultural perspective to the medical field and that perspective as well as their difficult upbringing will help better connect with their patients and know what are the right questions to be asking. This is not only restricted to minorities, there are also plenty of White Americans that also suffer through poverty that also bring a needed quality to the medical field of the social constraints their patients maybe facing.

This is why the medical field is such a team based profession, not everyone will be the best at everything and because of that we work together as a team relying on the expertise and life experiences of our colleagues to provide the best patient care.