part 2 surgical boards

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dddunit

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do you guys have any study material recommendations for part 2 surgical boards? would you say it is the same as part 1? would be curious to know what you guys used to be successful on it
 
how dumb are you guys? why don't you use the search function?
 
ah alright that was a bit rough, sorry. If you guys have any specific questions PM me. happy to help.
 
so took the CBPS part II last week and felt like it went very well. I'm posting this here for people in the future, so they don't have to deal with the "fellowship" (lol) trained dipsh*t above me.

Questions on the CBPS II were pretty much the same as they were on the qualifier CBPS exam. Basically seeing if you could work up a patient properly, identify risk factors and plan accordingly for them.

Not sure why we have to prove that we can work up patients again, as this used to be required for after case submission and you'd think it would be identified in case submission if the candidate can't work patients up.

No multiple choice questions sprinkled in, although there was a standard "Be as specific as possible" in the diagnosis section. This time the "be more specific" response on Physical Exam didn't waste a choice which was a relief. Also for the standard podiatry vascular exam it was bundled, so you didn't have to break down into components and waste choices. Cases sometimes varied though in different findings, for instance Ankle ROM sometimes gave me a result for the Silfverskiold exam, other times I'd have to order them seperate.

Approached it like the qualifier CBPS and had plenty of time for each case. First go to radiology for any free images given, if not standard foot or ankle xrays. Then cruise over to labs and order the standard panels for each case, whether its infection/trauma/female/RA patient etc, then work up from there. Writing down things to order for every Flatfoot or Cavus or Trauma cases would net free points for physical exam without even having to think.

Cases on the Foot CBPS II incorporate some things people would think are RRA, so I'd encourage anyone who is qualified for taking RRA to just do it. The work up for patients is pretty similar, and I had maybe 5 cases on RRA that differed drastically than how I worked up people on Foot.

Images were crisp and clear which was a first from what I've heard, also I didn't know this but you can zoom in by using the mouse wheel. Found that one out for the last 3 cases in RRA lol.

Mods feel free to edit if it's too specific and it violates some rule, don't want to get in trouble.
 
The non fellowship trained dipsh*t above me is spot on. Test was easy. If you can't pass that then you shouldn't be doing this job. In the event I didn't pass, then ABFAS has unrealistic expectations.
 
Hey guys how long does it take to get case review results? Just took written portion yesterday. Do the results come out at the same time?thanks
 
dddunit said:
Hey guys how long does it take to get case review results? Just took written portion yesterday. Do the results come out at the same time?thanks
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Same time. At least 6 weeks
 
Back to OPs question, anyone used one of the study courses available? Also, Air bud seems to think quite highly of himself, unless that is sarcasm.
 
Lol wasn't sarcasm. I failed 2/3 parts I took. Failed both forefoot and passed rearfoot computer which some think is the hardest section. I walked out of there thinking it's a joke, super easy. All my friends that failed sections said the same thing. I have never meat anyone who comes out of it saying oh man that was tough. But It's all a scam. I have many fellowship trained friends who failed too. And they all thought it was easy. Don't get me started on this. I lost points on a case for incomplete healing of dorsal shelf of an Austin. 12 weeks out, lady was in shoes and running and super happy. I lost points after a lapidus because they thought there was some elvatus of first met that the patient didn't have a problem with. I lost a bunch of points in 5 categories for the same reason ( which made no sense) when doing a lapidus on a 13 year old girl. The reviewer said there was an open growth plate. So I lost points in medical decision making, case outcome etc all for "incorrect procedure selection.". Patient had great outcome and I swear I have shown x-ray to 50 people and not 1 person has ever said they say a growth plate. It's all a scam to make money for ABFAS. And of course I had no recourse to appeal and say look at this g**damn xray there is no f****** open growth plate if you don't dock me 5 categories I pass. Instead I owe them another 500 bucks to retake ff case. Plus another 250 but ks for an "admin" fee so they can go out to fancy dinners in San Francisco.
 
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air bud said:
Lol wasn't sarcasm. I failed 2/3 parts I took. Failed both forefoot and passed rearfoot computer which some think is the hardest section. I walked out of there thinking it's a joke, super easy. All my friends that failed sections said the same thing. I have never meat anyone who comes out of it saying oh man that was tough. But It's all a scam. I have many fellowship trained friends who failed too. And they all thought it was easy. Don't get me started on this. I lost points on a case for incomplete healing of dorsal shelf of an Austin. 12 weeks out, lady was in shoes and running and super happy. I lost points after a lapidus because they thought there was some elvatus of first met that the patient didn't have a problem with. I lost a bunch of points in 5 categories for the same reason ( which made no sense) when doing a lapidus on a 13 year old girl. The reviewer said there was an open growth plate. So I lost points in medical decision making, case outcome etc all for "incorrect procedure selection.". Patient had great outcome and I swear I have shown x-ray to 50 people and not 1 person has ever said they say a growth plate. It's all a scam to make money for ABFAS. And of course I had no recourse to appeal and say look at this g**damn xray there is no f****** open growth plate if you don't dock me 5 categories I pass. Instead I owe them another 500 bucks to retake ff case. Plus another 250 but ks for an "admin" fee so they can go out to fancy dinners in San Francisco.
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How does the case submission part work? They just choose “random” cases and deduct points for whatever they don’t like? Seems so weird since really every case has its own set of circumstances that the reviewers couldn’t possibly know about. Seems very subjective.
 
I Passed ABFAS. I wasnt sure I would as they managed to chose two of my worst outcomes for case review.

One was a midfoot non-union which she refused more surgery. I guess that isnt a terrible outcome if she had no pain and was happy but I was nervous they chose that case. It's clearly a nonunion and didnt look good on final x-ray at all but she is happy as can be. Still on the bone stimulator to this day.

Another was a lapidus that was fairly elevated at final x-ray. Intraop C arm images I saved showing simulated weightbearing without evidence of elevatus. Looked and felt great intraop. Not sure if the intraop simulated weightbearing I uploaded saved me. They chose some really straight forward cases like an Akin and a Weil type osteotomy as a case to review me on. I also did lapidus bunions with those two cases with no elevatus or complications so maybe they saw that and let the elevatus slide? The other's they chose went fine and I didnt expect to have any problems with. Maybe I did fail the two and the remainder saved me. I'll never know.

I also overdocumented 100% of my surgical cases pre and post op. Straight up books for notes without a consideration or potential complication left out of the documentation.

I thought CBPS part II was reasonably difficult. I passed but I didnt think it was that easy. Everyone is different though. I always felt I had to work a little more than most in my class to get the grades I wanted. Never felt great walking out of exams in pod school but usually did pretty well on them. I think I have some degree of test anxiety.
 
DYK343 said:
I Passed ABFAS. I wasnt sure I would as they managed to chose two of my worst outcomes for case review.

One was a midfoot non-union which she refused more surgery. I guess that isnt a terrible outcome if she had no pain and was happy but I was nervous they chose that case. It's clearly a nonunion and didnt look good on final x-ray at all but she is happy as can be. Still on the bone stimulator to this day.

Another was a lapidus that was fairly elevated at final x-ray. Intraop C arm images I saved showing simulated weightbearing without evidence of elevatus. Looked and felt great intraop. Not sure if the intraop simulated weightbearing I uploaded saved me. They chose some really straight forward cases like an Akin and a Weil type osteotomy as a case to review me on. I also did lapidus bunions with those two cases with no elevatus or complications so maybe they saw that and let the elevatus slide? The other's they chose went fine and I didnt expect to have any problems with. Maybe I did fail the two and the remainder saved me. I'll never know.

I also overdocumented 100% of my surgical cases pre and post op. Straight up books for notes without a consideration or potential complication left out of the documentation.

I thought CBPS part II was reasonably difficult. I passed but I didnt think it was that easy. Everyone is different though. I always felt I had to work a little more than most in my class to get the grades I wanted. Never felt great walking out of exams in pod school but usually did pretty well on them. I think I have some degree of test anxiety.
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Thanks for sharing. I think it's fascinating how our radiographs don't always correlate to pain and patient satisfaction, but I'm glad to know that the reviewers won't fail you for that stuff
 
AttackNME said:
Thanks for sharing. I think it's fascinating how our radiographs don't always correlate to pain and patient satisfaction, but I'm glad to know that the reviewers won't fail you for that stuff
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Like I said. Maybe I did fail those two but had enough to pass with the other cases? I'll never know as I didnt get a score breakdown.
 
So whats the trick? You just have to guess what the questioner it thinking? Seems like BS, because it is.
 
air bud said:
Lol wasn't sarcasm. I failed 2/3 parts I took. Failed both forefoot and passed rearfoot computer which some think is the hardest section. I walked out of there thinking it's a joke, super easy. All my friends that failed sections said the same thing. I have never meat anyone who comes out of it saying oh man that was tough.
Click to expand...

So I ended up passing everything on the first try and ended up certified quickly. Didactic questions difficulty is given based on how well you are doing, so if you think it's super easy then chances are you are getting a ton of questions wrong. I walked out of the didactics thinking it was one of the hardest exams I've ever taken.

CBPS part I was more of elective initial things such as flatfoot, soft tissue stuff, etc, Part II seemed to focus more on end-stage stuff so a lot of fusions. Not sure if that's how it's supposed to be.

They are following a checklist for case review, make sure you check all the boxes and you get all the points. Follow the guide posted on ABFAS. They want xrays pre-op, post-op and at least 4 weeks later. Overdocument your notes. Always follow up with people, I had one lady that they reviewed that didn't follow up so I attached a picture of her no-show appointment stating she stopped following up. They alternated between trauma and elective osseous cases for my RRA case review, and it seemed just random for Foot. Email them for any logging questions.

I'd recommend the Goldfarb course and then the Board-Master website.
 
AttackNME said:
Thanks for sharing. I think it's fascinating how our radiographs don't always correlate to pain and patient satisfaction, but I'm glad to know that the reviewers won't fail you for that stuff
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Read my post - the exact opposite can happen. It all depends on the reviewer. I lost tons of points for stuff on xray that patient was fine with.
 
DJ Quik said:
So whats the trick? You just have to guess what the questioner it thinking? Seems like BS, because it is.
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There is no questioner. You just have to hope they read your notes and look at your xray and don't decide to be a dick about petty stuff. Don't get me wrong, I had 2 bad cases on thre and deserved to fail those 2.
 
i over documented too, I don't think that matters. I documented for legal reasons not for boards. Also, since apparently I am the only person who failed boards on SDN, for some perspective I was number 7 in my class, had a gpa of like 3.7 something, went to a well know residency and logged over 1200 cases. I have a friend who was higher than me gpa, did top residency, top top fellowship and failed sections. Actually I know 2 people like that.
 
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Also to give some people some solace in failing boards - who gives a ****. Your friends? They don't care, hell 1 or 2 probably failed too. You have time to pass. They just want your money, but come 3rd time they will make sure you pass. I have 5 more years to try. I have a great job, make good money and not passing has had absolutely zero impact on my job. Nobody gives a crap about faacfas vs aacfas in the real world (vast majority of situations). Unless you want to be a podium douchebag to use a term from a SDN friend.
 
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Utvolsdpm said:
How does the case submission part work? They just choose “random” cases and deduct points for whatever they don’t like? Seems so weird since really every case has its own set of circumstances that the reviewers couldn’t possibly know about. Seems very subjective.
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Yes random. For forefoot case review they selected 6 rearfoot cases. 6/13.
 
GreenHousePub said:
. I walked out of the didactics thinking it was one of the hardest exams I've ever taken.
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I remember that feeling. I also remember panicking at one point the questions started getting really easy lol.

And I know several people that did not pass.
 
Ortho boards only has one didactic exam to take (no "part II"), they only log cases for a 6 month period, they only select 12 cases for review, and they do the review in person with the examiners...and when you count all of our exams (part I and part II) we pay more than our orthopedic colleagues to certify...

The ABFAS is a complete and utter clown show. I work with a "board certified" podiatrist and some of the techniques and outcomes are laughable. It is unfortunate that our profession cannibalizes itself, this is just another example.

I should have enough cases to submit this fall and try to certify next spring, though I still may be short on rearfoot cases...
 
dtrack22 said:
Ortho boards only has one didactic exam to take (no "part II"), they only log cases for a 6 month period, they only select 12 cases for review, and they do the review in person with the examiners...and when you count all of our exams (part I and part II) we pay more than our orthopedic colleagues to certify...

The ABFAS is a complete and utter clown show. I work with a "board certified" podiatrist and some of the techniques and outcomes are laughable. It is unfortunate that our profession cannibalizes itself, this is just another example.

I should have enough cases to submit this fall and try to certify next spring, though I still may be short on rearfoot cases...
Click to expand...
Did they change the requirements recently? I though I had like 8 elective osseous rearfoot cases left and I logged in recently to add a case and it said I had all my required cases.
 
air bud said:
Also to give some people some solace in failing boards - who gives a ****. Your friends? They don't care, hell 1 or 2 probably failed too. You have time to pass. They just want your money, but come 3rd time they will make sure you pass. I have 5 more years to try. I have a great job, make good money and not passing has had absolutely zero impact on my job. Nobody gives a crap about faacfas vs aacfas in the real world (vast majority of situations). Unless you want to be a podium douchebag to use a term from a SDN friend.
Click to expand...

The opposite is also true. No one really cares if you pass either! I feel like I worked my butt off getting certified--paid a ton of money--failed case review the first time (I accidentally put that someone still had swelling 6 months out from a double arthrodesis), waited a couple years and tried again. Still no idea what changed to allow me to pass the 2nd time, but thank goodness I did. Now when I re-apply for hospital privileges I can check the box that says I'm certified... oh, and now I get to pay $350 every year instead of $250 so I can check that stupid box. I've never, ever had a patient ask me if I was board certified--still waiting for that day in anticipation! Got my certificate ready and everything!

I've never worked so hard for something so anti-climactic...
 
"I accidentally put that someone still had swelling 6 months out from a double arthrodesis "

@Scrantonicity why would this make you fail?

They really failed you for this documentation in your clinic note? Is this a joke?
 
There has to be more to the story than that. I had worse complications than swelling documented and passed.

Also I tell all patients to expect swelling 6 months to a year.
 
yeah that’s not why he/she failed. It’s a dumb reason to lose a point, but it’s just one of the many points you have to miss in order to fail.

To some of the other posters’ points, you shouldn’t lose any points just for having a complication. Complications happen. You should only get dinged if you don’t manage the complications appropriately, or you missed something in the workup that ultimately led to the complication, or poor surgical technique led to the complication, etc. but we all know people who lost point(s) just because the reviewer didn’t like your xray

I thought we wanted parity? Ortho has mid to high 90% pass rates. They review cases in person. They don’t have to retake their computer exam...why don’t we try to be more like ortho?

All of medicine is starting to understand how pointless board certification and MOC stuff is. Maybe some day we can get rid of ABFAS completely....
 
CutsWithFury said:
"I accidentally put that someone still had swelling 6 months out from a double arthrodesis "

@Scrantonicity why would this make you fail?

They really failed you for this documentation in your clinic note? Is this a joke?
Click to expand...


Of course they didn't. People just latch on to whatever they can think of and think that's why they failed. In reality the board is reviewing a couple hundred applicants over 2-3 days, there's just not time to get that much in depth with it. They're following a checklist, make sure you have all your widgets and you pass. Don't have xrays 4 weeks afterwards with no explanation why? Only uploading 2 views of an MRI? No weightbearing pre-op xrays? Serious errors in documentation? Fail that case.

You can always email them if you have any questions as well. Anecdotally one person I know who failed and claimed it was because of a post-op complication ended up being investigated by their state years later for......improper documentation.
 
You can email them and have a case that is 100 percent in your favor....and still nothing can be done. Trust me I know. A person who trained me used to be a VERY high ranking person. He admitted to me that I got screwed and said the process doesn't allow for any corrections. Said it sucks, just have to reapply.
So don't bother emailing. Accept that it happened. Like me as with all, there are plenty of legit points missed. Do better and pass next time. But it's the BS stuff that frustrates you. People who pass have no idea how nitpicking stuff is since they just get a pass grade. I wish they would publish to everyone what points they missed.
 
Nah it's not the one reason why I failed (the swelling)--I just put that as one of the examples--but you do get feedback when you fail, and just about all of the reasons I got back were nitpicky little things like that---not one thing that made me think "Oh, I know what to do next time so I don't fail". I showed everyone I knew my feedback, and they were all like WTF...

I had everything submitted that was on the checklist, so it wasn't that.

Bring back the oral case exams. I probably would have passed then the first time--at least you can freakin' defend yourself.
 
DYK343 said:
There has to be more to the story than that. I had worse complications than swelling documented and passed.

Also I tell all patients to expect swelling 6 months to a year.
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Exactly...hence the WTF. But can you email them and tell them that?? Or ask them what more there is to the so-called-story? No--they are off taking vacations with all the money I gave them lol
 
A few years ago they had an annual meeting in Panama City.

Panama, not Florida.
 
One of these days I’ll post my collection of post-op xrays from a “board certified” podiatrist...it’ll piss you off even more if you’re one who was failed recently...
 
dtrack22 said:
One of these days I’ll post my collection of post-op xrays from a “board certified” podiatrist...it’ll piss you off even more if you’re one who was failed recently...
Click to expand...

I personally believe the boards have gotten harder on the purpose to scam people out of money. Passing boards 10 years ago was not as challenging. The computerized version has left no room for argument or contesting unfair criticisms. It’s just a way for ABFAS to extract as much money as possible.
 
CutsWithFury said:
I personally believe the boards have gotten harder on the purpose to scam people out of money. Passing boards 10 years ago was not as challenging. The computerized version has left no room for argument or contesting unfair criticisms. It’s just a way for ABFAS to extract as much money as possible.
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The longer I'm around, the more I feel this is the case. Money first, actual patient outcomes is secondary. Friggin boards.
 
So I have seen Goldfarb and Board-Master for review. Any preference on which would be better if I were only to buy one?
 
hey guys for part 2 cbps when picking treatments i.e. talus fracture are you choosing talus orif only or also nwb, cast etc?
 
No one really knows the answer or what they are looking for.
They do have those practice CBPS scenarios with answer key
I was told not to shotgun options.
I shot gunned options regardless because the answer key was looking for X Y or Z as treatment options.
I passed last years foot and RRA part 2 exams with the shotgun method.
 
Are testing centers even going to be open in May. Should I even bother signing up?
 
dddunit said:
hey guys for part 2 cbps when picking treatments i.e. talus fracture are you choosing talus orif only or also nwb, cast etc?
Click to expand...

Choose them all. You should be selecting in treatment options ORIF, as well as Cast NWB, Crutch training, medical optimization, and everything else that is applicable. Don't forget your consults as well.

DYK343 said:
No one really knows the answer or what they are looking for.
They do have those practice CBPS scenarios with answer key

I was told not to shotgun options.
I shot gunned options regardless because the answer key was looking for X Y or Z as treatment options.
I passed last years foot and RRA part 2 exams with the shotgun method.
Click to expand...

Always shotgun options. So long as it's a valid treatment that wouldn't hurt the patient you will be maximizing your points.
 
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