PAs can now become DOs without taking an MCAT

[sonofva]

also, i feel like the candidates that LECOM or whoever chooses to snatch up from the PA world are probably exceptional candidates. if they really want to spend 4 extra years plus some residency to practice independently, i say let them.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Makati2008]

Can you give us a story for entertainment purposes of a scary NP being scary

Lol I'll give you a few
1.) my family member went to a local NP for abd pain that had been persisting for weeks. Diagnosed her with gastritis( a reasonable Dx) the NP tried to give her a medrol dose pack and flagyl. Said person refused and took OTC PPI but still sees NP smh

2.)NP I know blatantly against supervision missed mastoiditis in a 8 or 9yo kid. (New grad)

3.) FNP tried to send me a STEMI(I called it and had a doc review after to make sure it wasn't just j point elevation) although my facility was 20mins in the wrong direction and an ED with a cath lab was equal distance away.

I know one NP that is a teacher with a PhD that got mad because a Physician questioned her Dx(I can understand that part) but goes on to say I know more than than a normal doc because I have a PhD and I had to write a thesis they don't(she didn't know I was going back to school lol).

 

[Makati2008]

This is really late but I'm a biology major and I have to say I would rather do NP than PA and there are direct entry programs that allow that. Not saying anything bad towards PAs but NPS have an amazing lobbyist and they don't have to take an exam to renew their license. With that being said I think a lot of biology majors now a days move on to become nps instead

Not to be mean but not wanting to take an exam to show that you are competent at the practice of medicine reinforces why I am so hard on NPs.

MD/DO/PAs do it so what makes a clinician with lesser training clinically get a free pass....

 

[kinzav]

Personally, I'm happy to see more people given the opportunity to become physicians. The competition is fierce and schools should have programs to allow a lot of applicants the opportunity to compete. It's a little weird to me that there's a large enough population of PA's who want to become physicians but are adamant enough about avoiding the MCAT that LECOM has started this program. But if they're good applicants, then take them in and improve the applicant pool, and furthermore the physician pool.

I'm surprised at how many here think PA's might get into medical school, slip through their basic sciences, slip through the COMLEX, slip through residency, and then become an ill prepared physician who besmirches the DO name though. Seems like accredited schools are good at teaching students to be good physicians, and if they won't be, it's likely they won't make it through.

And as far as NP's, I've only had positive experiences with them. There might be poor NP's, but there are bad eggs in every field.

 

[primadonna22274]

Nobody's slipping through anything. There are now 3 classes of APAP going, the first to graduate June 1 (me--yay!) All of us so far have taken the MCAT. So far board scores have been good to off the charts. All 7 of us on c/o 2014 have gotten our first choice residencies and proved our mettle.
The rationale for replacing MCAT with PANCE/PANRE and solid PA grades is that there are so many highly qualified applicants who would make great docs but who lack an MCAT score. It's a hurdle that doesn't predict how well we do as a group. I'm sure a couple of my APAP classmates had good to great MCATs because they are that smart (and younger with less time out of school) but it's just not relevant. MCAT has some correlation with performance in preclinical sciences. After that the association REALLY drops off.
For us PAs, though, we have demonstrated an association between success on PA boards (PANCE/PANRE) and strong performance on step 2, NBME shelf exams, clinical rotations and medical decision making that I expect to carry through to step 3.
Y'all are welcome to try the PANCE instead of MCAT and see how you fare. (A light jest since you can't take it without certification of eligibility from your completed PA program.) My thinly veiled point here is that the PA applicants have already demonstrated a level of clinical competency that the other candidates haven't. We are different applicants and that's why LECOM views us differently.

 

[kinzav]

Nobody's slipping through anything. There are now 3 classes of APAP going, the first to graduate June 1 (me--yay!) All of us so far have taken the MCAT. So far board scores have been good to off the charts. All 7 of us on c/o 2014 have gotten our first choice residencies and proved our mettle.
The rationale for replacing MCAT with PANCE/PANRE and solid PA grades is that there are so many highly qualified applicants who would make great docs but who lack an MCAT score. It's a hurdle that doesn't predict how well we do as a group. I'm sure a couple of my APAP classmates had good to great MCATs because they are that smart (and younger with less time out of school) but it's just not relevant. MCAT has some correlation with performance in preclinical sciences. After that the association REALLY drops off.
For us PAs, though, we have demonstrated an association between success on PA boards (PANCE/PANRE) and strong performance on step 2, NBME shelf exams, clinical rotations and medical decision making that I expect to carry through to step 3.
Y'all are welcome to try the PANCE instead of MCAT and see how you fare. (A light jest since you can't take it without certification of eligibility from your completed PA program.) My thinly veiled point here is that the PA applicants have already demonstrated a level of clinical competency that the other candidates haven't. We are different applicants and that's why LECOM views us differently.

I hope you weren't angered by what I said. The sarcasm in my "slipping..." comment might have been missed, but what I meant is - those in medical school, regardless of how they got there, will either succeed and become good physicians or fail and not become physicians. Accreditation works at least on some level to produce a large majority of physicians who are capable and prevent graduation of incapable physicians.

And as far as the MCAT, I think there are tons of things wrong with it, but it's a hoop, and jumping through hoops is a huge part of the medical school application process, and it sucks, but everyone does it. Why should my grade in music appreciation count towards my chances? Why should anything except science classes, my clinical experience, and my interview count? It's just to get in the way so adcoms don't have to deal with 100,000 applications. And I can understand if more traditional applicants feel short changed about having to go through these hoops while others don't. I don't think it matters at all in the production of a good physician, but it does seem to have an impact on the idea of "fairness" in the medical school application cycle... but that's a deeper more philosophical question for an ethics PhD to figure out

 

[primadonna22274]

On re-reading our post I see it could be taken as a devil's advocate position, but that was not clear in the wording you used.
I agree with you that med school does a fairly good job of weeding folks out who can't hack it intellectually, interpersonally or professionally. Some will always slip through but look at it this way: the PAs who finish med school and residency have been scrutinized fully not once, not twice, but thrice and more. I would say that's some decent screening. Not to mention they've already passed PA boards and obtained state licensure at least once.